Sorry if this has been posted but this is crazy...
OT-Coached fired after running up the score.
Is he supposed to quit playing??? It's not his fault his defense was to good for the other team to score, or his offense was too good for them to stop. If he pulled the starters and played his backups he should have no shame...
From what I understand, he kept on his fullcourt press for all or most of the game, left his starters in the game for a long time, and encouraged his players to try to reach 100 points. I don't know if that's a fireable offense but it's pretty poor sportsmanship, especially against the school they were playing. And then, after his AD wrote a letter to apologize, he wrote to the newspaper to retract the apology! That last one was just asking for trouble.
Exactly. And they were still hitting threes in the fourth quarter. There's playing hard until the end and then there's this.
Oh yeah, and they were playing a school with approximately twenty people total aimed at people with learning disabilities.
insubordination = fired, at any job. The guy is not special or worthy of sympathy because he is a coach and the surrounding circumstances. It's tempting to look at the score and start whining about "PC issues" but a moment of thought should tell you the firing was justified for other reasons.
Agreed. The bigger issue here is the coach clearly and publicly going against the interests of the school. This is a Christian school and they made a public statement that they apologize because their actions weren't Christ-like. The coach, who is a representative of the school, publicly said that he disagreed with the schools apology and that he would apologize for nothing.
Also, the team they played against was a school for special needs kids. Beating up on a bad team is one thing, I usually don't have a problem with running up the score. But there is a difference between a team for special needs students and a plain bad team. The rules change a bit then.
here on MGoBlog. Guy was fired for being an asshole, not for the score. He ran it up against a school with kids with disabilities, ran the full court press and taking 3s, etc. He then refused to apologize and generated bad press. Jerkoffs get fired. And I don't feel bad for them. If you were at any job and your boss asks you to apologize, you either play ball or grab yourself a cardboard box.
Also, looks like a private school so it's not like there are constitutional issues here - at will employment means they could fire you whenever they want for almost any reason (aside from the obvious race, gender, etc).
They were both all-girls schools, man
I have no idea what this post is supposed to mean. Yes, it was one schools with girls without disabilities versus another girls team with disabilities.
Maybe it's the terminology that confuses you. My wife works with children and "children with disabilities" is the proper form of phrasing. It is "person-first language," where you put the person before the disability. E.g., kids are not autistic, they are children with autism.
You can laugh and call me PC or whatever, but I draw the line at laughing off formalities in describing people with diminished capacities in one form or another.
" Grimes said in his Sunday post that his team stopped applying full-court defensive pressure after the score reached 25-0 three minutes into the game, then dropped into a relatively benign zone defense and began resting its starters in favor of its three bench players.
Dallas Academy coach Andrew Lott agreed that Covenant stopped pressing at that point but returned with an alternate press later in the game.
"I am 100 percent sure," said Lott, who estimated that his team was able to take seven shots all game. "
Is this the first time ever someone posts a shutout in a bball game?
Before the age of the shot clock, I think there were more than a few shutouts.
High school basketball doesn't have a shotclock. There probably have been other shutouts.
There has never been a shutout in pro basketball. The lowest score ever (and the one that led to the invention of the shotclock) was a 19-18 win by the Ft. Wayne Pistons over the Minneapolis Lakers.
There's a lesson here - maybe we should schedule Galludet or something.
Galludet's pretty good, we'd be better off against the Perkins School for the Blind
Sally Struther's Lamp Repair
The clock should have been running (I suspect after the first five-ten minutes into the game) when it became obvious that one of the school was in WAY over their heads.
Only seven shots? I think I would have pulled them off the floor when it became apparent...we're simply being embarrass/degraded before our parents,peers and public. The former coach full of hubris...
What irks me is that the team that won ended up forfeiting the game for beating the other team too badly.
Our society has become so PC and pussified that its a wonder we even allow scores to be kept anymore in any sports.
This coach turned around this team from a perennial cellar dwellar to a contender. What does this teach his team. Don't try, because youll get criticized for trying.
If they were truly playing against a team of mentally retarded kids, shame on the AD's of the schools for letting them play. Not fair to the backups who do not get as much chance to play to tell them - you cant play the way I have taught you because you might win. I am no fan of running up the score, but ultimately, it is not fair to the backups to ask them to go take a knee - and BTW they only scored 12 points in the 4th quarter.
It's intellectually challenged.
That can't be right. If I've learned anything in this life, it's that the mentally retarded are shot and killed in Texas. Thank you, Family Guy.
they are attention deficit/hyperactive/dyslexic type kids. and your point about only scoring 12 points in the 4th is moot. it was 59-0 at half. so simple math tells you they needlessy maintained their pace of about 30 points per quarter in the 3rd before shutting it down with 12 in the 4th.
eight-twelve year old...I can tell you,beatdowns like this keep kid from wanting to play sports. Although,I've NEVER been on the end of something like this...embrassing/degrading kids have NEVER been something I'v adopted on the sideline. My wife wouldn't stand for something like that if I was involved...nor would the parents of the kids I coach...my coaching style revolve around these three gentleman
Pat Reilly like...clothing wise.
Tubby Smith/Chuck Daley like...coaching bball.
Bo like...coaching football.
First of all Litchy: blow me. Are you sure you should be referring to these girls as "mentally retarded". Re-read your post, it might actually be you.
Good for the school for firing the prick. The game is one thing, a public apology by the school and private reprimand would have been suitable but coming out and making the school look like they had no power or control over what they were doing is a perfectly legit reason to fire him.
Like others have said, if in your job you do something stupid and you're allowed to keep your job and don't really have to do anything besides put on a fake smile and read a prepped statement, would you expect anything less if you behind your bosses' back and make him look bad?
My son has ADHD and he spends 1-2 hours per day in the Special Needs room to help him keep up. My mom worked with special needs kids for 20 years. You are heartless. You are a classless loser, about as worthy as Tropp.
While I think this country has become to thin-skinned, this is not one of those occasions. The coach got what was coming to him. After getting a 20-0 lead they should have fallen back into a zone on the lane lines and give these challenged kids a chance to score. At that age, those kids are learning sportsmanship and team work. Most of all they are supposed to have fun. How fun is it to win 100-0 in a game like that.
and hat's for off standing up for your boy.
but thanks for the for the kind thoughts -
My main point is that it was not fair for the athletic directors to have scheduled the game if these kids were truly handicapped.
I am not heartless - and to equate me with a guy who swings a stick at another player is ridiculous. My words did not hurt anyone. You sound like a sucky baby when you make statements like that.
If you object to my use of the term mentally retarded, I apologize. I did not know it was offensive. But to engage in the ad hominem attacks because you disagree with me makes you the one who is like Tropp (an overgrown child who acts in rage induced fits in a manner that is not dictated by the alleged offense).
If you have problems with my position that the coach should have not been fired for disagreeing with the apology - fine. I did not even discuss the offense for which the coach was fired, but rather whether his team had a "right" to play the way it did. As I argued, the problem was that the game was scheduled in the first place by the Althletic Directors. Not fair to either sets of kids. If the team signed on to be instructors and said, ok we'll let up to give these kids a chance a'la Mike Hart and little brother, then that was their decision. But to punish them (and especially the backups who dont get as much chance to play) in the spirit of the special olympics I do not think was required in this situation - again from what I have read - I do not know the full story.
I think kids who are handicapped should enjoy the benefit of sport and I think that they should be put against competition commensurate with their mental and physical abilities. I am a whole hearted supporter of adaptive sports leagues (although I have seen in those leagues ringers -- kids with mild learning disabilities -- run circles around more severly handicapped kids, but I would guess that would not outrage you), and I support the mission of special olympics.
Based on some of the accounts it seems as if the coach wanted to teach the kids a different lesson than the PC administration and we can debate what the proper lesson to teach them is. If the school thinks he is a classless jerk they have every right to fire him - I am just saying that they shouldn't.
And no I will not blow you.
"I had a right to do it!" Having a right does not make something right, ethical, or remotely desirable. The Constitution protects your ability to be offensive in a million different ways but that doesn't mean people aren't going to look down on you or deny you opportunities in life while you (rightfully! right?) wear a swastika and run a BDSM porn site.
Obviously hyperbole, but come on - "they had a right to play as they wanted" is just about the weakest argument in the world. "You can't prosecute me for this" is not a ringing endorsement for the activity.
how was my post in anyway an attach and AMiB's "boy"?
Sorry about that Lichty. Not what I meant at all. My agreement was more directed towards "The coach got what was coming to him. After getting a 20-0 lead they should have fallen back into a zone on the lane lines and give these challenged kids a chance to score. At that age, those kids are learning sportsmanship and team work."
That, and the overall protective sentiment towards his son. My own young son has had similar struggles and I'm pretty quick to circle the wagons. He's my flesh and blood (and my whole world)- I'm sure you understand.
It has everything to do with your terminology. PC or not, in 2009 we should all be enlightened enough to not use the term "mentally retarded". My reference to you at the same level as Tropp is accurate in that, you are attacking those who cannot fight back.
Whether the game should have been played at all is certainly debatable. The coach was not fired solely for his "coaching" during the game, although it didn't help. His response to the school's apology did him in. He can call his and his team's actions has having "integrity", but pressing a team to the point of only being to attempt seven shots, is over the line. If you are ahead 30-0 or 40-0, call off the dogs, put in the reserves and play defense inside of 15 feet. There's no glory or rewards in beating a defenseless opponent.
they should hire lloyd. he'd never run up the score.
1. No they aren't mentally retarded... But they have a disability..
2. If they are a team of ADHD (why did they change it to ADHD does the H really mean that much this is just stupid it's ADD) and hyperactive kids be good at sports? I mean when I was a kid the best players at sports always seemed to be the ones who did poorly in the classroom and couldn't sit still/concentrate but they were awesome playing sports...
So in conclusion... How did the HYPERACTIVE kids not score ANY points and only get 7 shots off? I'm sorry but this is just pathetic it's not like it was a school of the blind and deaf or a school for severe mental handicaps that they were playing.
I disagree that the coach should have not retracted the apology but to say that "running up the score" to 100-0 is horrible and he should be fired for it because they were playing a "special" school is pretty messed up...
All of this IMO
ADD and ADHD are two distinct diagnoses. Some people have attention-deficits but are not hyperactive; others are.
I certainly don't defend Micah Grimes, and believe the school was well within it's rights to terminate him. I do feel compelled to comment given my close proximity to the situation. For those that cast stones, I ask do you you know Micah beyond the one story? Grimes had this to say after the game:
"It's unfortunate we got to 100 points in the game against Dallas Academy. It just happened, and we are not happy about that.
"Please know Covenant intended no harm against them. I see this as a real learning opportunity, so we can prevent this from happening in the future."
Did you know Covenant backed off after the score was 25-0?
"Grimes said in his Sunday post that his team stopped applying full-court defensive pressure after the score reached 25-0 three minutes into the game, then dropped into a relatively benign zone defense and began resting its starters in favor of its THREE bench players.
Dallas Academy coach Andrew Lott agreed that Covenant stopped pressing at that point."
The real problem continues to be the school administration and they're push to keep a girls basketball team that hasn't won a game in four years competing within a overmatched league. They've "suddenly" realized their schedule isn't conducive to building self confidence:
"Dallas Academy has since withdrawn its team from the TAPPS district and is piecing together a new schedule that will include junior varsity opponents."
The real shame is the lack of a mercy rule that would shorten the game or keep the clock rolling even when play is stopped. Girls basketball games are often one sided. All of the public ISDs within DFW have instituted mercy or golden rules to avoid these situations.
Grimes isn't a bad guy. He's a coach that took a 2 win team into the state playoff's within 2 years, often times playing much bigger schools to do so. His comments were intended to support his girls, saying they shouldn't be embarrassed or ashamed.
I believe he was fired because he spoke against his employer in a VERY public way. Most of us would have faced the same consequence. I do not believe his firing had anything to do with the game. Yes, it was in bad taste to run the score up that way but we all need to learn winning and losing.
Every piece of coverage of the situation agrees that he backed off the full-court press after getting up 25 - and went to a 3/4 court press.
Yeah, they "eased off" just enough to play tough halfcourt D instead of tough fullcourt D against a hopelessly overmatched opponent. Classy.
I understand that all the people who enjoy bitching about the "pussification" of America like seizing on these isolated little incidents like this and the Kentucky Football coach, and complain about how every gets upset about things. They argue that all he was doing was encouraging competition in his kids, etc. But why is "compassion" a bad thing? What did these kids learn by winning 100-0 that they wouldn't learn winning 65-4? Or 50-4? You present all these arguments for why it's "within his right" to keep his kids pressing and gunning 3's, and you're right, it is. But how about teaching kids to be decent people? To teach them that going for 2 points in a football game when you're up by 30 isn't right?
If your argument for doing something shitty to 8 teenage girls is "well it's within my right", you're an asshole. Period.
I can't say I blame the guy for not wanting to issue a public phony apology forced on him by his employers, who were probably as interested in not looking like a bunch of meanies (i.e. appearance ) as they were in actually making the girls from the losing school feel better.
If a team doesn't want to get humliated, then it's ultimately their job not to lose a game 100-0. Especially one in which the coach apparently called off the dogs long before the game was over. If that means not playing the game at all, then so be it. Dallas Academy and its coach are just as much as fault as this coach, if not moreso. Their team has absolutely positively no business being out on the court. What's the coach of the winning team supposed to do, tell his benchwarmers (who are probably busting their butts in practice every day) to go out on the court and then not play hard?
Would it have been that hard to sit back and let the other team score a freaking layup?
People. It's high school basketball, not the NFL. When the Pats were running it up nobody should have complained because these are professionals. These kids are not pros. They are kids.
The coach had an opportunity to be an adult about this situation and just go along with the apology, he chose to get in a pissing match over it. That's on him.
"Would it have been that hard to sit back and let the other team score a freaking layup?"
Hard? No. Absurd? Yes. IMHO having someone give you points because they feel sorry for you is more humliating than having them score a bunch on you.
At the very least, the guy shouldn't be fired for not doing this.
I'm not saying line up on the sideline and watch them run in for a score. But fuck me, just lay off the defense a tiny bit and I'm sure they could have stuck one in. It doesn't have to be obvious. Have some fuckin decency.
switch to a relaxed zone and let the other kids take some uncontested mid-range jumpers. If the other team only got 7 shots off it would have been obvious fairly early that there would be room to ease off the gas.
I don't understand why you conflate having any kind of sympathy or compassion as "being a pussy" or some shit. There's room in sports for being a decent person.
And he was fired less for running up the score and more for the fact that he essentially told his employer to kiss his ass.
"I don't understand why you conflate having any kind of sympathy or compassion as "being a pussy" or some shit. "
When did I say this? I am saying that it is not realistic for a coach to tell his players in practice every day how important it is to run hard on every wind sprint and do every drill like it's a real game, and then turn around in a real game and tell them not to play hard. Especially when some of the kids that are playing by the end are benchwarmer types that might not get a lot of minutes.
"There's room in sports for being a decent person."
If you have your backups in and you aren't playing your usual scheme, then how are you a bad person if the other team is so pitiful that you have to still actively let them score for them to get any points? By the accounts I'm reading, the guy at least made reasonable attempts to keep the score from getting more out of hand. Isn't there some point at which the losing school is responsible for putting a team on the court that has a remote chance of competing?
"And he was fired less for running up the score and more for the fact that he essentially told his employer to kiss his ass."
He was fired because he refused to issue a phony apology that was forced upon him. His employers hung him out to dry. If they wanted to apologize, then they should have apologized as an institution and instructed the coach not to do it again.
"At the very least, the guy shouldn't be fired for not doing this."
I do agree there. It wasn't his responsibility to make it easier for them to score. But he had to have noticed his team was kicking the living shit out of the other girls, and the fall out probably crossed his mind at some point. Making a small gesture to get them on the board would have been beneficial, because "100-0" is a ready made headline for CNN. "89-12" isn't. But failing to see that isn't a reason to be canned.
Publicly contradicting your employer on an issue where they are already taking a lot of negative heat from the media, on the other hand, is. The school is already getting bad pub - why go out there and exacerbate the situation by not going along with the apology?
And it's worth noting that this is a Christian high school. Showing no mercy on your opponents and needlessly humiliating them, and then refusing to apologize (to the point of retracting an apology)? That's about the polar opposite of what I think a Christian school would want to stand for.
blowouts and it has not been a devastating life experience for either me or my opponents to my knowledge.
If the issue is running up the score - yes it is not a nice thing to do, but it is not a hanging offense. If the school doesnt want Grimes to do that, it has every right to fire him, but we can still argue the merits here without a resort to name calling. I apologized for using the term "mentally retarded" what I now know is an offensive term.
What is a shame is that it took this for the Dallas Academy AD to realize that his program should be in a different tier of competition.
Jeez, some folks have a pretty short memory. Michigan has regularly downed the ball at the end of games that were well out of hand rather than try to score.
If the coach did not play all the worst players on his team for the entire second half, he is a douche bag. It would have given the players experience as well as not running up the score.