OT-Coach Arrested

who didn't allow his players a water break, thus causing the said player to collapse?

I’m not a coach but I do believe in a few things. As a parent, when kids get on that field He/She is in his coaches hands. Also, as a parent, I don’t believe that it is too much to ask for any coach to use common sense and good judgment. Not every kid is at the same place when it comes to being in shape. Most kids will not speak out if there is something wrong because they don’t want to be seen as weak (Especially in football and during two-a-days). It is up to the coach to look for signs that something is not right and take corrective action. I don’t know the whole story with this situation. There could also have been other health issues that were not reveled in a general health appraisal form.

Do us all a favor and castrate yourself, douche.

Ziff - I'm guessing you don't work in a Prosecutor's office. There are always more facts that underlie the office's reasons to charge someone with a crime then are fit into a one page article in the local news about it.

That's not to say every time a prosecutor brings a case, he/she is right. It is to say you probably don't know 1% of the factual basis for this case.

if you're worried about our country getting 'soft', which it is, read this rivals article:

http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=904726

unbelievable that this coach got fired. so his team kicked the other teams ass and everyone must feel sorry for the losing team. even espn made a big deal out of this.

First and foremost, this coach was negligent in his one job, nurturing his athletes. He didn't give the kids water breaks. Your argument that, all of the before mentioned coaches, work(ed) their players just as hard and therefor they should "run for the hills" because the police are coming is fucking stupid. I am sure those coaches understand the importance of water in 90+ heat. There is a difference between being a tough coach and a stupid coach. Tough coaches sometimes win games, stupid coaches sometimes go to fucking jail.
Secondly, This has nothing to do with lawyers, money, etc., if this was your child and facts similar to this case compiled about the coaches practices, I guaranfuckingtee you would be all over his ass too. Parents understand the dangers of putting their children in football. Broken bones, bruised ribs, etc, but no parent expects their child to die while in the hands of a coach at an organized practice. But, since your a John Wayne type hard ass, I guess when your son died you would say, "Fuck it, that's football. Let the coach be, no consequences, I am going to be a testament and model for how 'hard' this country used to and should be."

I really don't see how this impugns the character of the nation

Taking a water break does NOTHING to hinder your players' performance, except take a couple minutes away from practice time. There's no reason NOT to have plenty of water breaks.

There is a legitimate reason for having kids take shorter breaks before lifting sets or between sprints or something. High intensity training increases muscle performance. But a lack of hydration not only increases the chances of heat stroke, but it decreases the performance level of your players.

If one of my players asks for a water break, I let them have a water break. I'm not going to deny them water. But if it becomes a habit and I realize they're just trying to get out of working hard, then I a) tell them I think they're slacking and/or b) decrease their playing time. But I'm not going to let a kid die or go to the hospital to make them "tough."

Which is what the coach is charged with, is below, according to a legal dictionary:

In general, "recklessly" means that a person acts recklessly with respect to circumstances surrounding the conduct or the result of the conduct when the person is aware of, but consciously disregards, a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that its disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the accused person's standpoint.

Based upon this, there are shades of gray legally. While I believe in general that 1- we are FAR too litigious in this society, that 2- parents and people in general are way too eager to blame everything and everyone but themselves, and that 3- sometimes awful things happen and we have to accept them instead of placing blame, in this case you can easily make the argument that the coach's action meets the legal standard. Now, was his action a "gross deviation" from what a normal person would do? Probably so.

Because he was negligent however, does this mean he should be charged and go to jail? Or is the knowledge that he contributed to a 15 year old's death enough punishment (in addition to the certain fact that he will be found guilty in a civil court)? Do we as a society gain anything by sending someone like him to jail? I'm not sure, but lean towards no.

If he hadn't denied water, I would agree with the posters view, inelegant written though it was. However, the facts in this case don't support the conclusion.

Hasn't George O'Leary had several players die on him in the last couple years? Can you imagine if he had gotten hired at Notre Dame and tried those kind of workouts? Brady Quinn probably would've sued O'Leary himself! Especially if he didn't let Quinn take his Myoplex afterwards...the workout never would've been over!

You are a fucking moron. I bet if your kid dies because his coach was a sadistic asshole you'd be trying your hardest to quell the prosecution, right?

Oh, and if you are at all literate - read the statute. It's not at all clear that he hasn't committed a crime. If this guy really purposefully denied water to kids while working them to death in 95 degree heat, that's at a minimum negligence, probably recklessness, and arguably knowing (in Model Penal Code parlance) manslaughter.

I apologize for not doing my due dilligence. If in fact this coach denied the kids water then he is a douche and send him away. With how over the top parents are and the litigous nature of the world today and all the health information out today it seems unbelievable that no one on the staff mentioned the problems involved with not having water. I think these "facts" may be being provided by the prosecuter at this time which may not be totally accurate. I was going by the outpouring of support by his players...doesn't seem like you get that support from kids you "tortured".

If I was putting money on it at this point I think they had water.

Say that again and i'll sue you

all of you

twice

News stories and I saw the man's attorney and 1 of his players on tv this morning. None of the stories mentioned any of these "facts" Let's agree that the MSM blows. The only things of note I heard I didn't even bring up. No teams in Kentucky cancelled practice due to the heat and the practice was cut short that day(they didn't mention all the kids were dropping dead Junction style). Do you find it hard to believe an entire staff would deny water and they had no trainer on their school staff that said this is nuts. Maybe I give people too much credit but this sounds insane in todays enviornment. You seem to have access to all the facts, but didn't this man continue to coach the rest of the year?? If the facts are how you say they are how is this possible?? He would have been lynched on the spot.

Promote RichRod I apologize for offending your profession and not crafting my debate properly in my 10 minutes before work.

Ziff, broseph, go back to listening to THE SAVAGE NATION and remember LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER (but autism isn't).

I dont know the particulars of the situation (but I did read the article on it a few days ago)... if it is true that the coach did not allow a water break for a kid who was suffering from heat exhaustion...then fuck him... let him get prosecuted.

If it happened to your kid, maybe you would feel differently.

The story has nothing to do with "what has happened to our country...blah blah blah"

Is pounding away at me for some misplaced argument because your sensitive about lawyer bashing more productive than addressing the point about which while not crafted well is easily understood. If the coach acted in a humane manner does he deserve judgement for an unfortunate accident??

The dad attended the practice then left, should he be charged with child abuse for allowing his son to be tortured and doing nothing.

What would I do if that were my son is a popular argument, but isn't that the last frame of mind you should be in when determining policy. A little emotionally biased I think.

While I admit the litigous comment should not be in the argumentent...if i have a warning label on my wifes coffee and my company is being strangled not by the recession but by liability insurance than yeah the country is too litigous.

I played D-I ball for a University that had to deal with a similar issue. I won't name the school. We had a player collapse and die on the field right in front of us. It was the first day walk-ons were allowed at practice in full-pads...he was a first day walk-on. Shortly after warm-ups and the usual Monday gassers for loafs, the team broke for it's regularly scheduled 12 period practice (10 mins per period). I actually ran right past the kid, I looked him in his face and thought to myself he doesn't look so good and never thought anything else about it until I heard the kid passed away. We even had a coach that was basically picking the kid up off the ground and urging him to get off his a$$, in lighter terms. I tell you this, because I have some first hand insight on this situation. I as a player thought nothing to help someone that I knew was in obvious in pain. A coach poked and proded this young man to continue. The fact of the matter is, no one knew he was going to die that day. IF WE KNEW HE WAS AT THAT POINT SOMEONE WOULD HAVE CERTAINLY INTERVENED. A coach has tough duty. They don't carry the responsibility of one young man, but yet that of 50/60 odd something players. The owe a duty to all of these players and that is to push them to become the best player they can possibly be...unfortunately there is a thin line. This line is dangerous and scary. Anyways w/o righting book...all I am trying, it is 100% impractical to believe this man should face criminal charges. BTW, in my studies as a Sport Mangement Major, I believe that negligence falls under TORT Law. Which in most instances, is civil law. Yes, this coach acted in an extremely negligent manner. But, I at the same time when does the red light go off to say enough is enough???? I have been there and trust me it is not as easy you may want to believe it is....JUST SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!!