One Last Blind Stab In The Dark
Let's make a deal.
Saturday Michigan takes on Mississippi State in the Gator Bowl and Sunday something may or may not happen involving the throttling of an infant Denard Robinson in his cradle and the tears and lamentation that may or may not result. That would hypothetically also mean the reign of terror Greg Robinson's hair and the zombie minion that goes by the name of Greg Robinson would be over. The city of Ann Arbor emerging from its cocoon of upper middle class ennui to shoot AK47s in the air would at least partially offset the tragic, still hypothetical loss of baby Denard. I have taken too long on this bit.
Two days later Jim Harbaugh and his Stanford Cardinal take on Virginia Tech in the Orange Bowl. After he may or may not be destined for Michigan or the 49ers or the moon. The latest from Harbaugh is reminiscent of one Brian Kelly last year:
"I only talk about the job I have now," Harbaugh said when asked if he or his representatives had spoken to the 49ers about their coaching vacancy.
He acknowledged having a "dual focus"—
WHHHAAAA?
--on his team, which will play Virginia Tech in the Orange Bowl on Monday, and on his daughter, Katherine, who was born just before Christmas.
Aw, come on, Harbaugh.
So what's going to happen? I still don't know. No one does. Last time on this show I said I didn't have anything solid and probably wouldn't because of the nature of the "search" but that the mystical aura wasn't looking so hot:
I'm not inclined to put much in the widespread chatter that had RR out the door after the OSU game and seems to be continuing since its sourcing seems to be pissed-off-you-guys folk clearly unhappy with the state of the program taking small interactions and interpreting them as they desire. However, the vibe I'm getting from other people who seem to be on the fence about what to do—or at least close to it—also makes it seem unlikely Rodriguez is back. Emphasis on all the qualifying words in the previous sentence, please. I've got nothing solid because no one does.
I also said that Brady Hoke would be named Michigan's coach over my dead body and the last semblance of sanity in the universe but that wasn't based on inside information. It was more a "has everybody gone CRAZY!?!" moment, and if the threat of Hoke didn't linger in the air I'd apologize for it. As it is I'm on the battlements with an axe* waiting to behead anyone who pops up and says "my name is Buh—." Bill Parcells is duly warned.
With less that a week left before the month of limbo is over, I haven't received anything that pushes my opinion much one way or the other. To reiterate, that's:
- There is a nonzero chance Rodriguez is fired, otherwise there would have been an announcement.
- Schools do not start coaching searches on January 2nd.
- There's only one guy out there that could plausibly be socked away or all but in time for Michigan to have a reasonable finish in recruiting and could justify yet more chaos in a program that is pointed in the right direction, even if vaguely.
So it's Rodriguez or Harbaugh and we'll probably know the day after the Orange Bowl. With all due respect to people who would argue otherwise, it makes no sense to fire Rodriguez in January if you do not have a coach lined up immediately. Since the list of people other than Harbaugh who Michigan could install within a week reads "Buh—[blood theatrically spraying from neck]" your alternatives are between rushing someone through without pause for consideration—which worked out so well last time—or dragging the search almost up to Signing Day, leaving your recruiting class a smoking crater and possibly dooming the next guy, who will forever be Not Jim Harbaugh, to repeat the cycle.
I have heard some things that push me more towards Harbaugh:
- Some connected guys at Cal email that Tedford is aiming to poach Harbaugh's OL coach since he has "agreed to go elsewhere already" as of the 17th of December. Caveat: the Cal rumor mill bears no animus towards Rodriguez but would love to see Harbaugh anywhere but Stanford, so as things get passed down the chain they get more certain.
- A player who split his career between RR/Carr years tells an emailer that Harbaugh will be installed on the fifth. Caveat: why the hell would some former player know?
- An emailer who reports things second hand but has been reliable in the past suggests that Mary Sue Coleman isn't a big fan of Rodriguez, which isn't much of anything to go on but just adds to the pile.
- Media people I talk to generally say the best thing is probably to give him one more year but that they don't expect he'll get it. Also not much of anything but vibe.
The only thing pointing the other way is the generally sunny disposition coming from within Schembechler Hall, but with recruits the coaches are saying they've got no idea what's going on but if they're still around after the bowl they'll still be around forever, or something to that effect. That's a hard sale right there.
If I was 55-45 Harbaugh a month ago I'm 65-35 Harbaugh now. I wish I could be more certain and wouldn't make the decision I think is likely if I was king of the world, but that's life. We'll know soon enough.
AWFUL BONUS: If there is a change you can go start the Denard transfer watch at DEFCON 2, since Robinson knows what he is—the Big Ten offensive player of the year as a sophomore at quarterback—and where he fits. How screwed up is a program that manages to get both Ryan Mallett and Denard Robinson to transfer away from certain starting QB jobs in the course of three years?
This hasn't happened yet. Breathe. I am talking to myself mostly.
*(To avoid a Tucker Carlson moment let me clarify: I am not going to cut Brady Hoke or anyone's head off with an axe.)
December 31st, 2010 at 1:10 AM ^
Since you've elaborated on your irrational reason(s) for wanting Harbaugh, I'd be interested in your rational ones. I'm too young to remember the Harbaugh era at Michigan.
Ultimately what I'm asking is this: based on the careers of both coaches, which one is clearly the better coach? (Yes, that means RR's track record which is very good). Let us assume that both coaches are about equal in terms of past performance, which I think is reasonable to conclude. Do we then make a coaching change to a coach who is AT BEST an equal to RR to this point in his career, with the risk of going through another painful transition at a time when the program is (once again, based on available evidence as hinted by ST3) trending positively?
I just don't understand how one could RATIONALLY advocate hiring JH at this point. This is especially so considering there is another alternative which is retaining RR and tweaking the staff defensively.
December 31st, 2010 at 1:33 AM ^
both coaches are about equal in terms of past performance. Rich Rod not only built two programs from nothing, but he maintained the success over multiple seasons at both schools. Harbaugh's success at Stanford, as far as we know, may be a product of having Andrew Luck. Yes, he recruited him. But I'd rather see what he can do WITHOUT Luck before I crown him the next coming. (see Urban Meyer).
December 31st, 2010 at 1:46 AM ^
Oh, I completely agree with you. What I'm saying is that even if we assume that the available information suggests that they are equals, I'm not at all convinced that replacing RR is a good idea.
The reason for my post is that, even after a month of all this "CC" bullshit I have yet to see an argument which rationally and empirically concludes that Harbaugh is better in either the short or long run.
I felt like sun1 at least approaches the topic at hand in a civil manner, so I decided to ask him to elaborate. Hopefully he'll play ball!
December 31st, 2010 at 1:02 PM ^
For three years I've been against this hire, and now want RR GONE four seconds after he wins the bowl game.
Bring Harbaugh in, now. Don't screw this up.
I don't know, though, if it's a trainwreck thing--but I WOULD be oddly excited if RR is brought back to see what next year's team's progression would be. I also think there are several teams that will be down: Iowa, Wisconsin, and YES OSU as well. I mean, IF there is progress even more, and if it is FINALLY going to be that exponential progress that RR supoorters have been talking about for three years--well, next year could very well be somewhat watchable and more!
But that is ONLY if Harbaugh inexplicably wants to coach in the pro ranks and won't come home.
December 31st, 2010 at 2:37 AM ^
Rich Rod not only built two programs from nothing, but he maintained the success over multiple seasons at both schools.
RR has coached two I-A programs: West Virginia and Michigan. How exactly has he "maintained success over multiple seasons" here? The man has the worst winning percentage (both overall and in Big Ten play) in school history. That's part of his track record, as much as you may not want to accept it, and it's the most important part - it's come at this job.
December 31st, 2010 at 11:23 AM ^
is a football program. I didn't say 1-A. And to discount what he did at Glenville State because they aren't FBS is absurd when you consider how terrible that football team was when he got there. They were shut out 8 times the year before, and had something like 30 players on the team who had never played highschool football. Winning the conference title (and maintaing it for 3 more years) 4 years in with that bunch was, in my opinion, one of the more impressive coaching feats in history.
December 31st, 2010 at 10:16 AM ^
I'm a RR supporter and I think he deserves at least one more year, but stop with the "built WVU from nothing" bullshit, which is what you're directly implying.
Don Nehlen built WVU into a program that was good enough to get into a pre-BCS national championship game in 1993, and is still regarded by most WVU fans as the most successful WVU coach in history. Focusing on the two losing seasons since that 1993 game to conclude that the program was "nothing" when RR took over simply ignores reality.
December 31st, 2010 at 11:25 AM ^
the "pre BCS national championship game" they were in was the 1989 Fiesta bowl. In 1993 they played Florida in a bowl that wouldn't have won them a NC even if they had won... but that's moot because they lost 41-7 to something like the 8th ranked Gators.
In the decade before he left, Nehlen won exactly ONE conference title, that being 1993. ONE. And he only finished as high as second only one other time. They were in 6 bowls, losing 5 of them. And just because he was the most successful WVU coach in their history doesn't mean the program was very good. Most of his success came in the early 80s. Hell, in 20 years there he had 2 ten+ win seasons.
Rich Rod rebuilt the program and won or shared 4 conference titles in 7 years. They went from being Michigan State to being Michigan in his tenure. Maybe that's not building the program from "nothing", but it's sure as hell an accomplishment.
Now the other program, Glenville State, really WAS nothing.
December 31st, 2010 at 2:11 PM ^
Had teams like Miami and VT in it...when they were good. Rich dodged them for most of his titles. I'm sure if OSU, Wisconsin and MSU leave the Big Ten we could be doing the same thing.
December 31st, 2010 at 7:45 PM ^
It's not reasonable to exclude certain players...that's like me saying what Rodriguez would be without Pat White or what he would be without Denard in this offense. I mean he just lost a heisman finalist last year in Gerhart and was able to produce a 11-1 team after that...give credit where it is due. Also, you have to give credit to him for developing Luck into the QB that he is as well, because as it is known, not every coach can develop talent.
December 31st, 2010 at 2:27 AM ^
You really think there's nothing rational about the pro-JH (or anti-RR) argument? That exposes you right there. Virtually all reasonable people see at least some merit in the opposing argument.
<br>
<br>There's a dozen valid reasons why DB could replace RR. Major ncaa violations. Terrible defense. Gerg. Terrible special teams. Zero signature wins. Worsening results against our two top rivals. Mediocre recruiting. Attrition. An endless stream of enemies and "bad luck." Josh Groban. Etcetera. Ad nauseum.
<br>
<br>Don't be so ignorant.
December 31st, 2010 at 2:44 AM ^
To that list I'd add growing fan alienation. It was apparent to anyone who attended games this year, and then that poll taken a couple weeks ago (the scientific one) showed that 35% of the in-state fanbase wants him gone right now, with another third on the fence. There are whispers of donations going down and ticket renewals expected to decline. Hire Harbaugh, and the program gets a fresh start, and the fanbase becomes re-energized. This is not only the hottest coaching name in the country - a guy many NFL teams want - but a former U-M great.
If someone wants to rationalize RR's failures and argue that he deserves another year, fine, but to suggest that there is no argument for bringing in Harbaugh is absurd. Some people here seem to have become bigger fans of RR than Michigan..
December 31st, 2010 at 3:03 PM ^
That's an interesting argument to make because I think very little of that is on the shoulders of Rodriguez himself. It's not fair to blame him for the various disinformation campaigns he's had to endure because a group of media, whiny alums with money, and disgruntled former players decided on day 0 he wasn't a "Michigan Man."
I'm not saying Rodriguez is perfect - not by any means. I have this feeling, when all is said and done, that he will not have gotten a fair shake by the UM communiy and that is what is most disappointing. As an alum of the University, it pains me to see a good guy and a great football coach essentially run out of town (from the beginning) without having a fair chance to prove himself.
There might be people around here who like RR more than Michigan, but I guarantee you that isn't me.
December 31st, 2010 at 5:08 PM ^
Didn't bring in Rich Rod "re-energize" the program...until it blew up in our faces? I agree that a new coach/possibly new system, combined with the JH jingoism would probably add a curiosity factory to our upcoming season, but it would ONLY sustain itself if the 'new era,' so to speak, proved to be successful. If JH comes and has a poor (or even mediocre) first season, the same "we're-losing-I-hate-this" malaise will strike again. Fresh starts are not always good starts; don't think hiring a new coach guarantees $$$ and prestige.
December 31st, 2010 at 5:27 PM ^
Rich Rodriguez was brought in because everyone else said no or wasn't even offered the job, his agent called at the right time, and Bill Martin jumped on it to salvage a phenomenally botched coaching search. There wasn't any preconceived ideas of what it meant. He was simply the one who wanted the job at the right time.
How quickly we forget that Rich Rodriguez AND his agent sought out Michigan, and not the other way around.
December 31st, 2010 at 3:13 AM ^
Fine.
Yes, the W-L record has progressed from 3-9 to 5-7 to 7-5. Look closely at this season-- UConn is the biggest win. 3 wins were squeaked out over UMass, Indiana and Illinois. Bowling Green and Purdue were automatic. If Crist doesn't get hurt I think ND likely beats us. PSU was a bad loss to a beatable team. MSU, Wisconsin and OSU were blowouts. Iowa was not that close until the crazy 4th quarter comeback try. Our Big 10 record was 3-5, not much better than 2008 or 2009's 2-6, which is a hard fact to believe when you consider how far the offense has come. Bottom line for 2010 (pre bowl) is we were not competitive against good teams and barely beat middling ones. I don't see this as significant improvment. Exciting offense is fun to watch, but "you play to win the game." Harbaugh has done both at Stanford.
You both bring up the defense, which has deteriorated each year under RR. I do not think this is arguable. "Decimation" and youth are commonly cited reasons that have some merit, but the players who've been in the system, for example Ezeh and Mouton, have not shown significant improvement and that's on the coaches. Bottom line, we have now seen in back to back years the TWO WORST defenses in UM history by yards and points allowed. This is the definition of epic fail. Rodriguez hired his defensive coaches, and he cannot be absolved of responsibility. He is after all, the head coach, and not just the O-Coordinator. The idea of RR staying and cleaning house with the defensive staff raises a few questions. Would RR be willing to do this? He goes way back with Tony Gibson for example, so would he fire the guy? Would Brandon have to force him to clean house, and if so would he listen? Who would hire the defensive staff at that point? After the house cleaning, would you trust RR to hire a good set of defensive coaches? I wouldn't be too confident, given the recent results.
And I don't think it'd be a difficult transition and set the program back. Despite popular belief, our O-lineman are not undersized. There are 3 solid QBs, and depth at RB and WR. The offense's current staple, the QB-Iso, is a power running play. Any change on D would probably be a plus. I just don't see the negatives. RR is a good coach and I have no ill will towards him, but imho JH makes too much sense.
Beat the bulldogs and GO BLUE.
December 31st, 2010 at 2:55 PM ^
First, as far as the record goes I will agree that we have suffered some tough losses under RR. Yes we have gotten steamrolled by MSU, Wisconsin, and OSU this season but those three teams are all ranked in the top ten this seaon. Of course, we won't truly know the legitimacy of that ranking until after the bowl games but you can't honestly say that we are more talented than those teams at this moment. Heck, we've been outmatched against OSU long before RR ever came in.
Talent is a component of two things - recruiting and player development. The "decimated defense" is an excellent analysis which I hope you've read because it clearly elucidates WHY the defense has been terrible. Basically a perfect storm combination of bad luck, questionable recruiting by Carr in his waning years, and inexperience. Does RR deserve blame for mishandling defense? Absolutely - I'm not arguing the guy is a perfect coach. I just think even the defense is heading in the right direction because we are finally getting depth across the board. We haven't had that the first three seaons because of the aformentioned reasons.
The ultimate question to me is what should be our expectations on defense? Obviously we need to aim to build an elite unit, but that takes a long time for any program. Look at OSU - they have been churning out great defenses because they have a long-established program in which they recruit elite talent, develop that talent, and then unleash it when the players are upperclassmen. Building to that ultimate end takes time and patience.
Finally, I'd like to briefly elaborate on my argument of rationality. What I'm saying is that there are too many mitigating factors on boths sides to make a clear judgement on who is the best long-term solution for the football program. Sure, Harbaugh has done a great job at Stanford but there is an issue of sample size in makin that assertion. Do I think he's a good coach? Absolutely. But I also think it is dishonest to argue he is clearly a better coach than Rodriguez and at that point changing coaches on what amounts to a coin toss seems ludicrous. Ultimately, we simply cannot expect better results over the long run based on availble evidence.
I suggest we give RR a fair chance by allowing him to at least see his first (1/2) class become seniors and make a judgement of his coaching abilities when we have more evidence to conclude one way or the other. If the decision to get rid of RR was so obvious, why are we having this debate? In my opinion, the hiring of JH doesn't make enough sense. If the guy truly wants to coach at Michigan, he'll still be out there and we'll know more about him and RR than we do right now.
Oh, and mackbru, I would address your response too but I'm apparently too "ignorant" to entertain your clearly superior intellect.
December 31st, 2010 at 4:43 PM ^
by paragraph...
Yes these are top 10 teams. If we had lost in competitive games I would concede your point, but getting blown out by all of them is damaging to any assertion that we are close to getting back to the upper level of the big 10. Your statement regarding being "outmatched vs OSU long before RR" is fiction. Look back at previous scores, going back as many years as you think the term "long before" implies. Close losses in competitive games are not the same as being "outmatched" and blown out.
I have read the "decimated defense" manifesto and I agree this is an important part of the equation. You say the defense is pointed in the right direction-- the hard evidence for that assertion does not currently exist. It requires you to believe that a lot of young players and incoming recruits are going to be developed by this coaching staff, or some "tweaked" version thereof. That is fine, I'll concede that perhaps that opportunity is deserved. I'm pessimistic for reasons explained previously and won't believe it until it shows on the field.
I don't know how to answer what the "reasonable expectation" is for the D. I think just seeing any improvement year over year would be a nice start. Again, it's about being competitive and winning. If all it takes is an average D to compete at a high level, then great, but I have yet to see that.
And lastly, your point on "rationality" I agree with completely, and I alluded to it earlier. We can come up with facts and stats and reasonable assumptions to support either side of this thing. I reluctantly got into this discussion b/c you "asked nicely." This is my opinion and I'm not a crazed "send RR back to the coal-mine" socioopath. I just happen to be someone who would love to see JH at UM. But if not, although I have my doubts, for many of the reasons you stated I think RR could succeed here.
Enjoy the Gator Bowl and GO BLUE
December 31st, 2010 at 10:39 AM ^
I just really dont understand what JH is bringing to the table if RR is let go. How is it that everyone seems to think that JH is the savior of the program? I just dont get it. Is it the 11-1 record this past year? Before that he was 8-5 and 5-7 and has never won a PAC 10 championship. Im not sure of what JH has done from a coaching standpoint to make him such a better coach! I think more than anything is just a representation of the days when UM was dominant and somehow people correlate that with him making UM dominant once again and thats why some fans put him on a pedastal. I truly believe that RR is the course that the program needs to maintain. His offense will evolve into a truly dominant offense and im sure the defense will follow. At WVU he put some really good defenses on the field and im confident he will do the same for us. Im just as frustrated as the next guy but I truly believe that he will contnue to improve and put UM football back on top.
December 31st, 2010 at 11:41 AM ^
I think Harbaugh has more promise wrapped up in his 8-5 and 5-7 seasons than Michigan has had in RR's similar results. Both coaches have had progressions in the W-L record, but Harbaugh's wins have come out of Stanford, which does not recruit itself like Michigan and have had a sprinkling of upsets against the likes of USC and Oregon. Michigan under RR has lost the games they were supposed to lose (and it is a shame that we automatically are supposed to lose so many) as well as many they shouldn't have. Not one of our wins outside of Wisky '08 looks like a shocker in retrospect.
Mostly this fan doesn't feel like JH is a "pick your poison" option nearly as much as RR is at this point. I have total confidence that JH would come in and build something great, and only a hope that RR will do the same. Just my perception, and therefore how I feel.
December 31st, 2010 at 12:24 PM ^
This is a gret post!
The "progress" under RR is fool's gold. All of it has come on offense. And the offense was made to look poor against the better teams in the Big Ten. The "progress", besides average yards and points (which don't translate to victories), is being measured by exactly two games: Illinois and Purdue. And the Illinois game was won by the backup quarterback. BARELY. Purdue? Well, if in year three you struggle to beat a depleted Purdue team--you can't use that to measure progress.
Michigan should always be measured against the best teams it plays. And in those games, Michigan was largely embarrassed.
Harbaugh represents not a "return to glory" but a man seasoned by being connected to Michigan and Bo, going out on his own and succeeding, being a coach's son, and IMO, being a guy who seems to have a transcendant personality which COULD elevate him to a status reserved for those who are on planesabove average coaches like Rodriguez. It's philosophical.
Prodigal son returns; energizes a spiritually and emotionally dead program; recruits and players feel his passion, develop that old burning desire for Big state U; Michigan returns to prominence in its home state; People immediately take notice; laughter at present situation stops.
You can argue Rodriguez hasn't gotten a fair shake. Too bad. Sometimes life ain't fair. Rodriguez needs to be made to answer for his results.
December 31st, 2010 at 10:03 AM ^
Lay off. I like Weurther's Originals. That smooth, silky, carmel taste is just awesome.
December 31st, 2010 at 11:56 AM ^
I'm with you re: the deliciousness. It was a reference to the old Werther's Original TV ad with Wilford Brimley playing grandpa . I think time-wise it fell somewhere in between his Quaker Oats fame and the public service announcments for "the Diabeetus."
December 31st, 2010 at 1:07 PM ^
I LOVE YOU!! haha
December 31st, 2010 at 8:40 AM ^
Consider what the options are with Tate out of the picture if Denard needs to sit out a few plays. We can bring in Devon which I believe would burn any chance at a red shirt, or... Gallon? You couldn't blame RR for bringing in DG if you consider the fact he's most likely gone anyhow - with a small chance that a victory might make a difference. And if he's fired as coach it doesn't really matter to him, eh? Man, this really sucks.
December 31st, 2010 at 1:02 AM ^
If there is a coaching change I will be disappointed, just because I don't think you should make that move after three years, especially when the team is obviously improving. I do understand the MSC angle - she couldn't have been thrilled about the buyout/WVU divorce, or the freep mess. Part of me says no way you can cut RR after this year, but of course they can do whatever they want.
December 31st, 2010 at 2:46 AM ^
There are three components to the team: offense, defense and special teams. Can you really tell me with a straight face that all three are "obviously improving"?
December 31st, 2010 at 3:59 AM ^
I was looking at the W-L record of the team, which is improving. You are certainly entitled to your own interpretation
December 31st, 2010 at 6:55 AM ^
The past 2 seasons can only be considered an improvement relative to the smoking crater of 3-9 in 2008. Most fans were willing to suffer through the worst season in 130 years of football in exchange for a "LEAP"--not slow, incremental improvement and non-competitive games versus our biggest rivals.
December 31st, 2010 at 1:21 AM ^
Brian makes a blind stab in the dark. Where are all the cries about unsourced media reports?
December 31st, 2010 at 1:33 AM ^
Wait...seriously?
December 31st, 2010 at 1:48 PM ^
I didn't think so.
It's funny. Brian Cook has probably gotten so tired of declaiming his status as a formal "journalist," that people new to his blog might have never heard him say it. And at the very same time, utilizing nothing more than some good common sense, Brian's been more effective in quashing incredible rumors than most real journalists. He's also been better at publicly examining his own anonymous sources (I intensely dislike anybody's anonymous sources, for whatever that's worth) than most big commercial sportsnews outlets.
December 31st, 2010 at 3:52 PM ^
December 31st, 2010 at 1:43 AM ^
As much as I would love to see Harbaugh announced as head coach in the next coming days after the Orange Bowl, what gives me pause is that I think I'd rather see RichRod stay if Denard would transfer due to the move. I know, not exactly an earth-shattering revelation, but I'd be royally pissed if Harbaugh went straight to a more pro-style offense right from the get-go even with our current personnel.
December 31st, 2010 at 9:25 AM ^
I keep thinking about the scenario where Rodriguez is canned, Harbaugh wants more, sours the deal somehow, and leaves for the NFL, leaving UM with "Buh!"...
Has anyone ever seen the horror film by Sam Raimi (Royal Oak native!): "Drag Me To Hell"?
December 31st, 2010 at 10:51 AM ^
I've had to drive spikes in my ears for the last month listening to alleged Wolverine insider, disgruntled Alum, Spartan gloater, and Mike Valenti devotee all speculate about what is going to happen.
I've also had to forego eating a bullet listening all of the above give their reasons for RR vs. JH, however laden in logic or methamphetamine those reasons might be.
And since this is all really meaningless until DB finally makes an announcement, I think the speculation pot should be sweetened:
What does Josh Grobin think will happen?
Or, maybe he already knows, and it just not letting on, in an effort to drive record sales.
December 31st, 2010 at 11:19 AM ^
For me this is right up there with "Those who stay will be Champions"
'We're going to win with character but we're also going to win with cruelty,'"
December 31st, 2010 at 11:28 AM ^
I won't name names, but a lot of the anti-RR/pro-Harbaugh people on this site sound like total whiners...myopic ones too. Just my take.
If RR is let go after only three years, I don't think that any reasonable person could say he got a fair shake (all things considered). Bo would not be pleased, but I guess it's only cool to talk about Bo when you're bashing RR or fondling Jim Harbaugh's nuts.
December 31st, 2010 at 1:26 PM ^
I think I'm going just be relieved when this whole thing is over. The whole "everybody who doesn't agree with me is a whiny b***h who doesn't really love Michigan" bit has gotten way out of hand and, now, sickly stale.
December 31st, 2010 at 5:31 PM ^
Bo is dead.
Can we stop putting words in his mouth?
December 31st, 2010 at 12:00 PM ^
Hi all, I'm a long time reader and first-time poster. Just to lay my cards on the table, I hope Rich Rod gets one more year, but I'm also going to support whomever is the coach at UM.
Two Points:
One, Michigan fans love Harbaugh because of his background and what he's done for the university. My concern is that while we think he's a huge name, hot coach, great get, etc., I wonder if national recruits hold him in as high esteem as we Michigan fans do. I know his recruiting classes at Stanford have been strong, but I also know that Rich Rod was a huge national name before he came to UM. His national hype with White/Slaton was ridiculous, as was his move to UM. It could be that Harbaugh's move will create similar sensationalism, and recruits will eat it up, too. Or not. Sensationalism and "vibes" are important (see UM the last three years and Dantonio's penchant for playing criminals while maintaining a saintly image for two recent examples). Just curious for your thoughts.
Two, it is probably my naivete but through Schembechler and Carr and Rodriguez I have felt UM was morally superior to other programs. I know Rich Rod had the Freep fiasco, but everything you hear about this man from recruits and players (e.g. Brandon Graham) and parents is that he is a man of high integrity. If UM fires him after showing improvement (especially if he wins his bowl) and hires Harbaugh - who again I feel could be great -, a man with a bit murkier record with integrity, my last illusions that UM cared for more than just winning football games will vanish. Perhaps sentiment should have nothing to do with winning football decisions, but for this reader, it will be a difficult pill to swallow to someday NOT be able to, in a smug manner that UM fans know all too well, tell my children that the Michigan way was different (and somehow more respectable).
Fire away ;)
December 31st, 2010 at 12:06 PM ^
I don't mean to be naive but if what some of you say is true, DB has already made his decision to fire RR and hire JH, doesn't that make him a pretty bad liar? Is that what "Michigan Men" do?
If JH is the right guy for the job, he wouldn't mind staying at Stanford another year to see how next year pans out w/ RR as coach. If he's that good of a coach, his stock will only rise at Stanford and he would have that many more opportunities to coach somewhere else next year.
December 31st, 2010 at 12:57 PM ^
I would like to start out by asking everyone to really realize what is of upmost importance to you in your life. I for one am as GUILTY as anyone, for putting Michigan in general, Rich Rodriguez's job "situation" at the forefront of my thoughts, day in and day out. But have recently had a few experience that have put things into perspective. My 3 year old nephew has had health issues, and been in and out of the best childrens hospital in the WORLD. That my friends really, truely, makes me re-think what is important. That said, i live, die, breathe, and bleed Michigan athletics. So even while going through everything with my nephew, who lives with me, I still have our current scenario with our football program racing from the back of my mind to the front of my mind, and then to the back again. So here this goes.
Dave Brandon: "Michigan Man" can someone please define a "Michigan Man" for me? I thought it was defined by honesty, integrity, loyalty, you know..doing people right, giving people a fair deal, someone who is not just about wins and losses. In my own opinion, I do not believe Brandon has handled this situation like a "Michigan Man." Bo would not have handled this in this fashion.
I will support whoever is our coach, and right now that is Rich Rodriguez, and i support him with all i have. I am a 22 year old KID, someone who remembers 1997, 1997 being my first year of a clear memory anyway.That said, I loved Lloyd Carr , I didnt know Bo through experience, but through ALL of his books, and his short media apperances. Bo and Lloyd were Michigan men, maybe Harbaugh is, he seems like he is, he is on hell of a coach, but he is not MY coach, MY coach is Rich Rodriguez, he is the one that dons the headset each Saturday..My point is, Brandon has not handled this like a "Michigan Man" he has handled it like a power hungry "alpha dog." Its too early to judge him, and i think he is a great AD, but he has fumbled this football in my opinion.
a quick glimpse into what goes through my brain waves:
Rich Rodriguez's judgement:
1) improvement - he has done that, bar none.
2) talent: upcoming HEISMAN(s)? need i say more? **defense** its partially there, on the D-Line,the DB's are coming, and we all know the luck with the defensive secondary, and as for LB's the potential for Crable/Harris type production/talent was there, but didnt and hasnt been developed correctly or something.
3) players respect- EVERY ONE of his players love him (had link to a freep article that wasnt being allowed so google "Players show support for Rich Rodriguez in Freep" or something.... this is just a SMALL peak to how they feel. The article with Darryl Stonum in the december issue of "The Wolverine" speaks more to just what coach Rod means to these players.
Now that said, i think thats enough to keep him, but Dave Brandon, is not being the "Bo Schembechler's Michigan Man" he is letting a friendship (with Jim Harbaugh) guide his "search." THAT my friends is not how "Michigan Men" do things, they do not step on someone elseto climb a ladder, and Rich Rodriguez is being used as just another step in Dave Brandons ladder.
This is just how i see it my fellow MICHIGAN lovers, this is just a taste of my opinion, i could write a novel, instead i chose a chapter. If you can't tell, ill be blunt. Rich Rodriguez deserves another year, agree or disagree with his philosophy, he DESERVES to be treated right, and he is not getting that. This was my first "post" so it might be a bit rusty, so please forgive my abundance amount of hydrous ferric oxide in my attempt at a post. It will get better with guidance.
Those who stay will be champions. GO BLUE!!!
PS. how about that GLI championship to jump start our second half run?
December 31st, 2010 at 1:18 PM ^
I for one do not have insight into DB's decision process, his method of analysis, or what exactly he is evaluating.
I think it is short sighted to judge him until we see the result of his decision - whatever it is.
What I suspect he's doing as AD attempting to move Michigan back to the elite status that it enjoyed for years. How will he do that? Don't know. Could be JH and a full CC. Could be RR with a new defensive staff. Could be Brady Hoke. Could be nothing. Whatever he does, he will and should be judged over time. Not now.
And please, let's all try to quit telling each other what Bo would do or how much of a Michigan Man DB or RR or JH is. None of us know what Bo would do as AD given the current circumstances along with his up close analysis of progress - or lack of progress.
December 31st, 2010 at 1:10 PM ^
there are good arguments for RR and JH.
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<br>If RR stays, I will look forward to DRob as a junior, DHart going blue, and nearly all O starters returning.
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<br>If JH comes, I will look forward to the closest thing you could have to a perfect recruiting storm - great coach, former M hero, connected to Bo, will embrace the rivalry games as one one who has played in them.
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<br>Personally, my hope is that a healthy offense rolls tomorrow and saves RR's job. It seems like a tragic waste to bring someone in to execute an overhaul, suffer through some hellish growing pains, and then can him just as we are on the verge of finally reaping.
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<br>Also, I am sick to death of not being able to play an upperclassman at QB. Our QB depth is very good if RR stays; if he leaves and there is a chance that DRob might transfer it could be horrific again.
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<br>Please, no horrific. I much prefer to see RR's offense take the next step in 2011, and I think this seems more than likely.
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January 1st, 2011 at 8:43 AM ^
I was the happiest guy around when RR was hired. With all the turmoil (some caused by Him, but most was not) I just want to turn this ship around. My fear is that DB will keep Him, and with all He’s gone thru He will jump ship at His first chance.
I realize RR is a great coach, but this whole scene has hurt us badly. Let’s cut our losses before we get even deeper in this mess.
I don’t think JH will do a 180 like RR did & go from spread to pro-style. He will coach to the talent we have & progress to the pro-style.
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