On Notre Dame Hockey To The Big Ten Comment Count

Brian

So this happened, and it's kind of a big deal if you like hockey:

Assorted takes to follow.

Yes, it's a good idea

NCAA Frozen Four — Notre Dame Fighting Irish vs. UMD Bulldogs

[Tony Webster/flickr]

There's been a ton of bitching about this move on both sides, which I expect from NDNationers literally still upset about something that happened in 1910. I expected less of that from the Michigan side of things but our thread here is about 80% "f*** Notre Dame." I wish Bo had never said "to hell with Notre Dame." It is the crying Jordan of things Bo said.

I downvote all of you metaphorically. Michigan and Notre Dame should play. In hockey, in football, in whatever. Curling. Sure, curling. They have a strong AD and quality revenue programs, they are a historical rival, they are a geographic fit. Not playing them—not wanting to play them—is juvenile.

This goes double for hockey given the situation the Big Ten finds itself in. Simply put, the schedule is much better off with four games against the Irish than it is without those games. (Especially because those will be home-and-home weekends.) The league is much better off with Jeff Jackson in it than outside of it.

The downside is… what, exactly? Notre Dame will feel less pressure to join the Big Ten in all sports? If you think hockey factors into that decision one iota I have news for you.

No, don't add Arizona State

A seven team conference is a bit odd but is doable. The league schedule expands to 24 games, one team is on a bye they can fill with a nonconference series every week, it's fine. FWIW, Brad Traviola says an eighth team is not currently on the table:

Notre Dame makes seven, and Big Ten deputy commissioner Brad Traviolia said there are no current plans to expand to eight. Some Illinois and Nebraska fans wish their club team would upgrade to varsity, but such a move requires major funding and proper facilities.

Moving to eight gets tricky. Options:

  • 28 game conference schedule. With 28 conference games your nonconference gets very restricted. Michigan and MSU are in the GLI every year and the cap is 34, leaving just four slots for new teams. This was the worst thing about the 12-team CCHA.
  • 14 game conference schedule. Opposite problem, nowhere near enough.
  • Two divisions of four, 20 game conference schedule. This was more or less the CCHA's solution after they went to 12. They rotated pairs of teams through groups of four so the schedule did change up.
  • Play everyone three times, 21 game conference schedule. Logistically difficult. Some of the odd games could be taken care of in switch weekends like the old College Hockey Showcase. M would travel to Minnesota for Friday and head to Wisconsin on Saturday while MSU did the opposite, that sort of thing. The eighth team would probably have to be a geographic pair for Penn State, though, and there isn't one that makes sense. I mean, Robert Morris is in Pittsburgh but do we want to add Robert Morris?

All of these have costs in a way that adding team #7 does not, and so the hypothetical eighth team had better be worth it. A team in freakin' Arizona with zero history is not worth it, especially when the Big Ten does not need another RPI anchor. Arizona State doesn't have a name brand in any sport, let alone hockey.

Yes maybe add someone else

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There are teams that would be worth it if they were amenable. Foremost is North Dakota, a fierce rival of Minnesota and Wisconsin who Michigan also has a ton of history with. North Dakota is an incredibly well-supported program that would bring a buzz to Yost every time they showed up.

As a Midwest-ish state flagship school, North Dakota fits the Big Ten reasonably well. Bringing them in would mitigate some of the Minnesota hate for the new arrangement. It would improve the overall quality of play. It avoids some of the optics problems with adding a school with a bunch of other D-I programs—North Dakota is D-II in everything else. [Update: this is no longer true.] If they want in the Big Ten would be dumb to say no.

Would they? I think they probably would. Despite being perennially one of college hockey's best teams, just four North Dakota games were on national TV this year. From the Big Ten's perspective you do get a small bump by adding North Dakota, the state, to the footprint. And as mentioned, UND-Minnesota was the fiercest rivalry in college hockey once Michigan State went into the crapper. (And probably before that.) NoDak is the easy #1 choice.

If the Artists Formerly Known As Sioux don't want to come, there are other programs that would be worth it:

  1. Miami. Quality program with a new rink. Hating on Enrico Blasi is great fun. Geographic fit makes three-game league configuration feasible.
  2. Whichever Minnesota program the Gophers want. St. Cloud, UMD, whatever. Good programs that will be good in the future. Mitigates Gopher hatred of new league. Geographic fit.
  3. Western or Ferris. Neither team is going to knock your socks off with their on-ice performance but they are a geographic fit and old CCHA rivals.

Let's Play Hockey suggested Miami along with Arizona State, UConn, and UNO. Only Miami should be a viable contender amongst those schools. UConn has most of the baggage ASU does and is already in Hockey East. The only reason they would join the Big Ten is in the faint hope that would be a prelude to joining in all sports, and see Notre-Dame-to-the-Big-Ten-in-all-sports above for my take on that. UNO is a good program vaguely in the footprint but it's not much better or worse than a lot of schools a lot closer.

Notre Dame keeping its NBC contract is good

This is not the right take at all:

This isn't basketball or football. The BTN cannot televise all of its hockey. Other channels pick up games for the rest of the league all the time; there is no reason not to allow Notre Dame to do the same. Meanwhile now I know two road games will definitely be on a channel I get. From a fan's perspective anything that gets a game on TV is good; the NBC contract takes pressure off the Big Ten Network's limited programming space.

Now we can definitely do the State Championship thing

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Trophies are good [Patrick Barron]

Notre Dame now becomes an obvious choice to fill out the field for the Michigan hockey championship I've been advocating since the dissolution of the CCHA. There are seven hockey programs in Michigan spread across three conferences now; they should play each other, and they should give someone a trophy for it.

Add Notre Dame in now and divide the eight teams into groups of four that switch annually. Michigan and MSU are never in the same group. Two WCHA teams are in each group. Hypothetical groups:

Group A Group B
Michigan Michigan State
Ferris State Michigan Tech
Western Michigan LSSU
Northern Michigan Notre Dame

Each team plays the others twice. Teams in the same conference have an early-season conference series that counts towards the standings without adding additional nonconference commitments. The top two in each group advance to the GLI. The bottom two play a consolation round at the Joe either a couple days before or at the same time. Hand out a big ass trophy to the winner.

This is a:

  • Six-game commitment for the WCHA teams, ND, and one of M/MSU.
  • Eight-game commitment for M/MSU every other year and WMU.

Michigan, MSU, and MTU have already committed two of those games with their annual participation in the GLI. With a 24 game conference schedule Michigan would have 2-4 dates to play with annually and could still go out to Boston, play a tomato can, that sort of thing.

It is doable, and it would make the GLI a bigger event. It would provide a semblance of the old CCHA and amp up early season nonconference games. It's more or less adding an FA Cup to the college hockey schedule. The state of Minnesota would probably follow suit in short order.

Maybe things can start making sense now

ND to the Big Ten makes sense. Could this be a new era of not shooting yourself in the foot in college hockey? Please Tiny Jesus make it so:

No regional sites have been selected past 2017. And, according to Kristin Fasbender, the NCAA’s director of championships and alliances, the committee and the college hockey body as a whole will explore whether a new structure to the regional portion of the tournament, which could include playing games at campus sites, is a more viable option.

“I think there is continued conversation about [changing the regionals],” said Fasbender. “The committee keeps talking about what [the tournament] looks like when we go forward.

“We’re in a year here where at our four regional sites, none of our host institutions are in them. So I think we’ll continue to have this conversation as we get into the championship in Tampa and at the coaches’ association meetings in April and the [NCAA Division I men's ice hockey] committee meetings in June and trying to talk more about what we want to continue to look at globally for the whole tournament as we go forward.”

It's long past time to move to campus sites. North Dakota earned the opportunity to host a regional. Instead they're in Cincinnati, playing in front of nobody. But I'm a broken record about neutral site college hockey.

Don't overlook this sick Rutgers burn

Red on the move:

“Expansion is brought up every time the Big Ten is mentioned so (the move) is a good step in the right direction,” Berenson said. “It makes sense geographically. It’s not like we’re going out to play Rutgers or something. We’re playing a team that is in the Big Ten footprint.”

Oh snap, Delany.

Comments

Esterhaus

March 23rd, 2016 at 7:39 PM ^

 

My god I would have loved my dearest child to have played for Red. So much to learn outside hockey from that MAN. But we're not getting the head role accomplished and who are we kidding anymore. We need to replace Red with an NFL-level collegiate coach who might stick around (a pun there). Pay up during and after transition, but the change over is overdue. The rest in terms of affilations is less important consideration, respectfully offered. Go Blue Hockey!

travesty

March 23rd, 2016 at 8:39 PM ^

It probably wouldn't work for many reasons, but would the University of Toronto be worth considering as an eighth?  I don't know how cable works in Canada, but Toronto would be a huge market to get into.

Alton

March 23rd, 2016 at 9:43 PM ^

NCAA rule:  no Canadian teams in Division I or III.  They are only allowed in Division II.  So that rule would have to be changed before Toronto would have any interest at all.

They probably wouldn't be interested anyway, but they certainly wouldn't be interested if they were banned from the NCAA tournament.

stephenrjking

March 23rd, 2016 at 10:26 PM ^

Isn't the larger issue that Canadian University rosters are stocked with former Major Junior players that aren't eligible for NCAA hockey? I suppose a really determined school could just change how they assemble their roster, but as of now they don't compete in the same way.

UMProud

March 23rd, 2016 at 9:15 PM ^

#1 Fuck Notre Dame!

#2 I hated playing ND because of their independent BS...it annoys the hell out of me they are able to go to BCS bowl games but are not a BCS team!

#3 I am less annoyed at playing ND when they are part of a conference and revenue sharing

#4 Fuck Notre Dame!

FrankMurphy

March 23rd, 2016 at 9:36 PM ^

I'm not a hockey fan and I despise Notre Dame, but I recognize that this is a big deal and a good thing.

Notre Dame cannot sustain its football independence indefinitely. Unless they're completely oblivious, they must understand that. The fact that they had to agree to play a limited slate of ACC games is an indication of the reality they're facing. In the long run, the ACC is not a good fit for Notre Dame geographically or culturally. Playing Clemson, FSU, Miami, and Virginia Tech regularly doesn't quite strike the same chord with ND's fanbase as playing Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, and Ohio State regularly. And if ND prioritizes being a national brand, the Big Ten has the most geographically diverse alumni base of any Power 5 conference. Back in 2003, ND viewed joining the Big Ten as an absolute last resort. ND joining the conference now, even as an affiliate member, is a quite a pivot. This will come to be seen as the beginning of the end of ND's football independence, IMHO.

If we eventually add ND as a full-time member (and balance them out with Oklahoma), then I'll come to terms with being in the same conference as Rutgers and Maryland (and the B1G abbreviation will finally make sense).  

M-Dog

March 24th, 2016 at 12:23 AM ^

ND to the Big Ten in Hockey stands or falls on its own merits.  It's not a canary in the coal mine for ND joinning the Big Ten in Football.

They are not coming.  So do you still want them for Hockey, yes or no?

Six Big Ten Hockey teams is not very workable for very long.  We need more teams.  

I would prefer to get there by adding more actual big Ten teams.  But that's not going to happen any time soon if at all.  So adding Notre Dame is as good a way as any to get there.  

I would like to see an 8th team right away to come in with them.  Miami is a good enough fit as well from the list of schools that are realistically obtainable.   

doggdetroit

March 23rd, 2016 at 9:48 PM ^

Arizona State may not be a blue blood in football or basketball but they are a FAR bigger brand than North Dakota is or ever will be. ASU does have an elite baseball program, which in my view trumps North Dakota's elite hockey program since there is more interest in college baseball than there is college hockey. The bottom line is that ASU resonates far more to the casual sports fan than does North Dakota. That was the impetus behind the B1G's decision to create a B1G hockey coference and that appears to be the impetus behind the addition of Notre Dame. Right now, the B1G has some of the biggest brands in college sports (Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Penn State, Wisconsin) with huge fanbases under a single roof playing hockey. It doesn't matter that half of them suck. They all resonate more with the casual fan than do little known colleges and universities that happen to have a Division 1 hockey program.

For these reasons, ASU makes the most sense for future expansion. There are also more B1G alumni living in Phoenix and Tempe than there are Pac 12 alumni. You think they wouldn't be excited about getting to see Michigan and other B1G schools play twice a year in person? Will ASU drag down the B1G's RPI? Probably. Will they be bad forever? I very much doubt it since ASU is only a 5 hour drive away from Southern California which is a growing hotbed for high school hockey and they are literally the only local school poised to benefit from it.

Keep in mind that  Wisconsin and Minnesota have been historically bad the past several seasons. Once they revert to the mean, you are looking at having three elite hockey programs in the B1G. You throw in a rapidly improving Penn State, a solid Notre Dame, and Michigan State, which has a storied history, and all of a sudden you have the best hockey conference in the country. Even if Wisconsin, Michigan State and Minnesota continue to suck, as long as Michigan fields a strong team, they will make the NCAAs regardless of what anyone else does.

BornInA2

March 23rd, 2016 at 9:59 PM ^

Isn't this a tacit admission that trying to run a six-team "B1G" hockey league was dumb-ass idea? I mean if they start adding non-B1G schools, as they apparently just did, how is it not just the WCHA or CCHA reborn/reinvented?

randyfloyd

March 24th, 2016 at 7:09 AM ^

I do have one question. When did South Bend become a city in Michigan? I know it is in Indiana, I'm just wondering about the whole "Michigan trophy" thing and why Notre Dame would have anything to do with it.

Autostocks

March 24th, 2016 at 8:19 AM ^

A geographic pair with Penn State could be Rensselaer, currently a member of the ECAC.  Like Hopkins in lax, RPI is Div I for hockey only.  Great academic school too, so a fit from that standpoint (as opposed to, say, Ferris or North Dakota).

ScruffyTheJanitor

March 24th, 2016 at 8:30 AM ^

I never grew up playing it or really knew any other hockey fans. However, that quote ALONE should get Red Berenson a statue (his myriad and impressive accomplishments notwithstanding).

MichiganHockey27

March 24th, 2016 at 10:09 AM ^

I think inviting North Dakota makes the most sense.  The NCHC can pick up ASU as a replacement and the league will still be one of the best leagues.  Having NoDak at Yost every year would be awesome.  I imagine it'd be packed for those games.  On the contrary, UM going to Engelstad would certainly draw a buzz.  Those series would be phenomenal to watch.  

On the other foot, Minnesota gets their biggest rival back, and still plays in the North Start cup, so that could possibly stop the bickering by gopher fans.  It would make perfect sense.  

Kevin13

March 24th, 2016 at 1:06 PM ^

for hockey is a very good move. They are local team, with a big draw and will help increase the the visibility of this conference, which hasn't been very strong the last couple of years.

As far as playing Notre Dame in all sports? Sure if they join the conference, but I don't see a reason to sit by the phone like a scorned prom date waiting for them to call so hopefully we can play them in football. They broke the contract, they snubbed their nose at the B1G in football and all other sports. They want to play come to us and ask, otherwise to hell with Notre Dame.

When it comes to North Dakota, they would be a great addition to the B1G in hockey and I do think they would be all over it. Could probably get a little money from the B1G TV contract and would think they would love that, as well as being a regional team so travel isn't too far.  

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