Not My Crowd: What?
So ESPN spent the first five or ten minutes of College Football Live yesterday talking about how screwed Michigan was because "another player(!!!)" was leaving Michigan, never mind that Wermers' departure was officially announced two months ago. But you get a couple of quotes from a kid transferring into the MAC and the universe is ending.
I don't think it matters much in the grand scheme of things because only one thing—winning—matters much in the grand scheme of things. That does not mean it's not annoying as hell. The part that's still lodged in the ol' craw at the moment is that "not my crowd" statement. What crowd? By the time Wermers announced he'd transfer, the only Rodriguez recruits that had made it to campus were the guys he filled out Carr's last class with and the early-enrollers.
Those players are as follows.
2008: Ricky Barnum, Justin Feagin, Martavious Odoms, Patrick Omameh, Terrence Robinson, Mike Shaw, Roy Roundtree, and Taylor Hill. (I'm not including Brandon Smith and JT Floyd, who were technically uncommitted when the switch happened but were more Carr recruits than Rodriguez recruits.)
2009: Vlad Emilien, Tate Forcier, Anthony LaLota, Will Campbell, Vincent Smith, Brandin Hawthorne, Mike Jones.
Who constitutes the infamous crowd here? We're looking for players that don't fit the profile of a typical Michigan recruit. So not these folks: Hill transferred after about two seconds, Omameh is an engineer, Shaw was a Penn State commit who Carr had offered, Roundtree was a Purdue commit,—both were teammates of Carr commit Brandon Moore—Campbell was basically a Carr recruit, Emilien is an honors student, and so are LaLota and Jones. Both of LaLota and Jones were picking between ND and Michigan.* And Forcier is the younger brother of a Carr recruit.
I really doubt there was any culture shock from the arrival of guys from Ohio and guys who strongly considered Notre Dame. That's been the pattern of the program for years.
The remainder: the Pahokee guys, Feagin, Barnum. And I guess Terrence Robinson. It's hard to interpret Wermers' "crowd" in a way that doesn't mean poor black kids from Florida, and I guess Terrence Robinson.
Which is all the long way of saying that 19 year olds should offer pat, positive answers and shut up, lest they say something that gives the wrong impression.
*(FWIW, Jones' decision was easy since ND did not offer.)
well since yesterday, i've actually talked to kurt and i have some more information explaining what this "crowd" is. what i sent to Brian is quotes about the crowd and names of people involved in things that have been covered up very very well. I have not posted all the details on the blog because well these things have been covered up for a reason.
as for all the things i have been talking about, i know it is hearsay but i have been told them by players currently on the team so it hasn't exactly made it out onto the internet.
and i would really like to know why my posts deserve all these thumbs down
Do you really want to know that? Do you not understand? You yourself said it's hearsay and yet you will anonlymously post hearsay feedback from a disgruntled former player that accusses the current staff of being very bad people.
This one isn't hard, my friend. Have you ever heard a bitter ex-girlfriend describe her ex in glowing terms? I don't know if this player is vindictivie or dishonest. But is it possible? Yes. Since you don't know and I don't know, don't you think running with his version of things might not be reality?
oh i understand the whole ex-girlfriend argument, its just the fact that the majority of information that i am using for my argument comes from the spring which is before Wermers transferred. And it is not just coming from him but from players still on the team. So i'm going to believe them and not all this bs on the internet.
I haven't given you a thumb's down. Everything you're saying could reflect reality. I don't know. What you're saying, though, is "trust me" when you make realtively vague accusations against unnamed people. An anonymous person on the internet can't engender enough trust to make people buy into such things. And clearly you're telling us something we don't want to hear. You've got a hard sell.
I haven't voted you down either, but I probably should. You should keep this in emails between you and Brian if you must share it. Either that, or just come the fuck out with it (actually, please dont. It could very well be libel b.s.) and don't post vague comments saying that you know what's going on, but can't tell us.
Kind of dumb, don't you think?
Again, vague accusations against un-named people are what I find objectionable. You haven't established how/why you have access to Wermers, you have no idea of the truthfulness of what he says even IF you have that access, and your refusal to get into anything resembling specifics suggests that you're just making shit up.
then tell me it's not lame. I did not vote you down but you are walking on really thin ice right now.
Where do you know Wermers from? Are you from Indiana? Were you friends of his family? A neighbor? Were you in classes with him at UM? Which ones? Did you live in his dorm? Which one? Who is doing the covering up? Bill Martin? The coaching staff? Do you think the main UM administration is aware of this cover-up? Are they complicit in it? How is it that you "know" players on the team? What are the circumstances that put you in close contact with them? How many individuals are involved in the alleged thievery? Have the law enforcement authorities been contacted? Why or why not? Are any of the incidents violent in nature? Have there been confrontations between players over the alleged incidents? Fist-fights in the dorms or locker rooms?
i lived in west quad last year so that should explain how i know football players and became close friends to a couple of them so i heard stories about practice, life, and of course the team. I've been given inside information before like Wermers and O'Neill transferring, both of which before they went public. I didn't want to announce either one of those but i left hints on this blog about O'Neill's transfer. As for the cover ups, I don't know the extend of it, I just know the things that are being covered up. Some of these incidents involve DPS (hopefully you know what that means). And none of these incidents that I am referring to are violent in nature.
The main thing that pisses me off about all of this isn't the points, its about the people calling people they haven't met douches or assholes when they haven't even met the people involved. This is all coming from like 3 quotes and you don't even know what its referencing and people are just guessing what it is. And yet when i try and explain it people refuse to listen or believe a sentence i write.
You don't seem to understand something:
You are, by being vague and non-comittal about anything you write, slandering the entire team - the coaches, the players, even fucking DPS. You keep saying that these are bad people without saying why.
You keep saying that you don't want to come out with what the bad things are, but you still keep posting here, obliquely saying that they exist - it's attention-seeking behavior, and it's obnoxious. Stop acting like a twelve-year-old, and shut the fuck up.
What sound does a vinegar truck and a water tanker make if they collide?
*Dooosh*
Will Campbell tried to eat him.
Barwis told him not to though... unless he had several gallons of chocolate milk to wash it down with.
Otters are not known to harm wolverines.
However, they are noted to be agressive toward broncos, fighting Irishmen, members of the Huron tribe and their pet eagles, Hoosiers, Spartans, eyes of hawk, mountain lions, members of the tribes that made up the Illini confederation, shots of whiskey in a beer, badgers, and can even safely (but aggressively) consume large amounts of poisonous tree nuts.
"Not my kind of crowd."
I issued this challenge yesterday, and I issue it again to the crowd. Please interpret that statement to mean something other than:
A. Kurt Wermers is a closeted bigot.
B. Kurt Wermers is a Whiny Ass Titty Baby who didn't like being beaten out on the depth chart.
I really see no other way to interpret his comment. I'd love to hear a more forgiving explanation for "not my kind of crowd," but until I do Kurt Wermers can go fuck himself for all I care. He's low class.
B, obviously.
Do you really think he came to Michigan to find a lilly white team? Black players predominate in major football programs, including a mid-major like Ball State.
He was at the bottom of a depth chart and everyone in front of him was eating scrap iron to prepare for Wolverine Barwis RR Death Football. I am sure he and O'Neill probably bitched about how football wasn't fun over video games.
There are ways to exit gracefully if you don't have the necessary fire to continue. I've seen it, I've done it, and there are no hard feelings after the fact.
This was a pretty mean-spirited attempt to somehow obscure the fact that Wermers didn't have the fire anymore. He can't bear to admit that the cause was himself, not the program and not RichRod. So he essentially lied about the cause of his departure.
And by telling a mean-spirited lie, Wermers deserves every bit of criticism coming his way, IMHE. Fuck him.
Agreed. Low class exit. Sounds like excuses my kids make up.
...it's pretty obvious the answer is b (although I'm not sure if he's a Titty Baby or a Titty Babby).
Anyway, when this first leaked, he supposedly felt constrained by his duties to the team in order to meet his academic desires. He reiterated as much with the recent "business" comment in the newspaper. Now, seeing as how other guys (read :everyone else on the team) seem to make it work between academics and the new super demanding football regimen, I'm not sure how much water that holds, but whatevs. The rest is cover fire.
And as you and MDan hash out above, he shouldn't have thrown out the "not my kind of crowd" because, at best, it makes you look petty.
In closing, titty babby.
"The remainder: the Pahokee guys, Feagin, Barnum. And I guess Terrence Robinson. It's hard to interpret Wermers' "crowd" in a way that doesn't mean poor black kids from Florida, and I guess Terrence Robinson."
Even though I am sure that what he meant was that he disliked having to work his ass off to compete against guys who are serious, focused and hyper motivated; it is far too easy to come to the conclusion at the end of Brian's article...sad really.
"It just seems as though there's something there or we wouldn't be hearing things like this from players as they're leaving."
Do you pay attention to the comments made by all transfers from all programs? I'm asking seriously, as I don't, but I'll bet my salary you'll see the exact same thing as we're seeing at UM: (1) new program, (2) some kids transfer, (3) vast majority of transfers don't say sh*t (O'Neill, etc.), (4) some transfers feel the need to justify their transfer (so as not to seem like a quitter), which inevitably makes it seems like they blame the program.
You REALLY don't think we'd ever hear this stuff from transfers unless there was a problem with the program?
is that Wermers directly implied that Rodriguez is bringing in bad kids who are not the good, boy-scout Carr recruits that Wermers prefers to associate with, like Larry Harrison, Eugene Germany, Marcus Slocum, Adrian Arrington, Kevin Grady, Chris Richards, Mario Manningham, and Carson Butler, to name just a few of the more recent players with questionable actions on their resumés. That's why the reference to "type of crowd" is transparent bullshit—it's code for kids from down south who are willing to work way harder than I am and who are better than I am, and who don't mind the coaches yelling at them to boot.
But good luck to him down at Ball State anyhow. I always was a Stan Parrish fan, so maybe he can make a mature man out of him.
Kelly Baraka...
If you ever denigrate Fuck Lion like that again.
Just kidding.
Really, though, Marques wasn't a thug or someone who recklessly endangered others' lives or someone who ran his 300 lb. ass naked through the streets, so far as I know. He was just someone that was probably as uneducated as a country stump, and had little desire to try to make in an institution of higher learning. Which isn't evil or anything.
100 guys on a football team? If Wermers transferred because 4 or 16 of them weren't "his crowd" then good riddance.
Eight word summary:
Michigan transfer not only FAT but also RACIST.
...and STUPID.
Between the West Virginia writer and now this, Brian is doling how some heavy pwnage this week.
and the 40 Thieves.
FYI all I watched College Football Live and they weren't all that negative about this. Brock Huard gave a pretty good answer on this.
Where I saw the most spin was in there videos of Carr and Rodriguez. They would show a clip of RR yelling on the sidelines, then one of Carr standing stoically on the sidelines. They repeated this several times, implying RR always yells and Carr never did.
It was wonderful having such a nice pussycat for a coach back then. And his relationship with the media was so nice and open and friendly. And he took criticism so well!
Wermers! Squirmers! We don't care bout no freakin Wermers! Was Wermers with us when we bombed Pearl Harbor? NO! Was Wermers with us when we shot down Francis Gary Powers? NO! Did Wermer at the 1969 Tet Offensive? NO! Did Wermers set Michael Jackson's freaking hair on fire? NO! We are not the kind of crowd Wermers wants to associate with, we can deal with that! A barrel full of monkeys is bound to have one or two malcontents. What I can't take, and what I find so UNACCEPTABLE is that...I forgot what I was gonna say, but if I could remember it I am sure you would be impressed. So, I hope you learned your lesson and will return to being the Michigan Men gay people around the world abhor.
Potato Salad.
do we ever need some freaking football.
Can someone liveblog the Band workouts in August, just to have something pertinent?
What I'm having trouble understanding is why this matters so much. A guy leaves the program and makes a few very inadvisable vague statements on his way out, and this explosion of hatred -- along with some unfounded accusations of racism -- results? Yeah, his comments were sort of obnoxious, but ultimately, they're not really that important. Move on.
Well, no hatred here. And I don't think racism has anything to do with it. But I would argue you're mistaken that his comments aren't important when you look at the pattern being promoted in the media...and on the recruiting trail.
I have zero facts, but I bet this negative recruiting bonanza available to opposing coaches has cost us more than one kid since RR has arrived. And we are short-handed. I don't matter, but I think Brian's piece and the piece of Rivals today (very good) are important and getting the Michigan side of the story into circulation.
I'm not concerned so much with Brian's post as I am with the bulk of the comments on this and other Wermers-related posts. That's what I see as unnecessary and over the top.
I think people are trying to figure out what, exactly, he means when he says that Rodriguez's players (of whom he's met around 12) are not "his crowd". It's hard not to take that as an indictment of them, isn't it? So what does he mean? Maybe they're not a capella singers or something? Or maybe he's just spouting nonsense (most likely) to not talk about why he IS leaving - he's not high on the depth chart, it's too hard, he doesn't like the school...whatever it is.
It sounds like you're concerned for the negative talk about Wermers. But what of the negative talk about all the other players on the team?
I don't think it's fair to be concerned with negative comments about one kid, without being at least equally concerned with the negative comment thrown at a whole bunch of other kids.
If you're really concerned with comments, then you should FIRST be concerned with the FIRST comment that started it all:
"...not my kind of crowd..."
Deal with that first, then you can bitch about all the comments being thrown at the guy that made that comment to begin with. Fair's fair.
I'm concerned with the pointlessness of the negative talk here. You're correct: he made negative comments about his former teammates. But as far as I can tell, nobody here is a former Michigan teammate of Wermers, nor is anyone here a coach in the program. Those are the people who really have the right to be upset at his comments, and those are the people who should deal with it how they see fit (which, it seems, is not to deal with it publicly). As just a fan, I don't see how I really have reason to pick apart Wermers.
So I'm not dealing with his comments because I don't think it's necessary for me to deal with them, and I'm dealing with other comments here because I don't think it was necessary for anyone else here to deal with them, either.
"But as far as I can tell, nobody here is a former Michigan teammate of Wermers, nor is anyone here a coach in the program. Those are the people who really have the right to be upset at his comments, and those are the people who should deal with it how they see fit."
Ok, so in your opinion, only those directly affected by a negative comment should talk about it and/or deal with it. I don't agree, but that's a reasonable opinion.
"and I'm dealing with other comments here because I don't think it was necessary for anyone else here to deal with them"
Wait, WTF? You just finished explaining why people shouldn't be dealing with negative comments that don't affect them, yet that's exactly what you're doing. If in your opinion it's not appropriate to discuss negative comments that don't directly affect you, then you shouldn't even be in here since none of the negative talk directly affects you.
reveals his opinion on this subject. Others are giving their opinions. I don't see a difference between the two.
It's an important topic from the standpoint of media perception. It matters.
I'm not concerned so much with Brian's post as I am with the bulk of the comments on this and other Wermers-related posts. That's what I see as unnecessary and over the top.
i think it probably has a lot to do with the fact that they're airing new half-hour episodes of college football live and it's freaking july. what else are they going to talk about? the president's suspiciously not-aired-live first pitch? making it seem like the white house was going to lebron/nike the tapes if he two-hopped it? actually, they should talk about that.
The "not my crowd" statement must refer to people that like to give 120% all the time.
When I first saw his comments I was indeed perplexed. Thank you Brian for addressing the issue, I too thought that he might have been aiming it at some of our southern recruits. Now for a side story... I came from a school in NJ that was very diverse, like 50% African American diverse. Anyway, when I got up to Michigan I was shocked by the lack of diversity at the school (not that it's a positive or a negative, just something I noticed right away). After meeting people from Michigan, all of whom told me stories about how diverse Michigan was in comparison to their HS's it made me think. The same school in two people's eyes are exactly opposite in terms of diversity. Now I don't know exactly what HS or town Wermers was from, but after thinking about all the kids I went to school with, I would venture to guess that Brian is correct about his "poor black kids from florida" theory.
ultimately though, i'd go back to brian's original point. i think the "not my crowd" is more of an indictment of lloyd than of RR. like 85% of the roster is composed of carr recruits.
FYI, you are missing 'whore' in your sig.
You know, I have OSU friends (yes, I am sorry) who still send me those jokes about criminal football players (such as Michigan went 9 and 3, nine arrests and three convictions!) with the college changed to Michigan.
And I will say, "WTF?! What are you chimps talking about? RR has had one - ONE - guy who had some issues (Grady)."
"RR is scUM! He is sleazy," they yell.
The point is that RR has had a vastly cleaner program as measured by Fulmer type events than Carr. And not one of his recruits has had an issue. It's early, sure. But taking the opposite perspective - that RR has a bunch of hoodlum criminals running around - is unhinged.
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