Not My Crowd: What?
So ESPN spent the first five or ten minutes of College Football Live yesterday talking about how screwed Michigan was because "another player(!!!)" was leaving Michigan, never mind that Wermers' departure was officially announced two months ago. But you get a couple of quotes from a kid transferring into the MAC and the universe is ending.
I don't think it matters much in the grand scheme of things because only one thing—winning—matters much in the grand scheme of things. That does not mean it's not annoying as hell. The part that's still lodged in the ol' craw at the moment is that "not my crowd" statement. What crowd? By the time Wermers announced he'd transfer, the only Rodriguez recruits that had made it to campus were the guys he filled out Carr's last class with and the early-enrollers.
Those players are as follows.
2008: Ricky Barnum, Justin Feagin, Martavious Odoms, Patrick Omameh, Terrence Robinson, Mike Shaw, Roy Roundtree, and Taylor Hill. (I'm not including Brandon Smith and JT Floyd, who were technically uncommitted when the switch happened but were more Carr recruits than Rodriguez recruits.)
2009: Vlad Emilien, Tate Forcier, Anthony LaLota, Will Campbell, Vincent Smith, Brandin Hawthorne, Mike Jones.
Who constitutes the infamous crowd here? We're looking for players that don't fit the profile of a typical Michigan recruit. So not these folks: Hill transferred after about two seconds, Omameh is an engineer, Shaw was a Penn State commit who Carr had offered, Roundtree was a Purdue commit,—both were teammates of Carr commit Brandon Moore—Campbell was basically a Carr recruit, Emilien is an honors student, and so are LaLota and Jones. Both of LaLota and Jones were picking between ND and Michigan.* And Forcier is the younger brother of a Carr recruit.
I really doubt there was any culture shock from the arrival of guys from Ohio and guys who strongly considered Notre Dame. That's been the pattern of the program for years.
The remainder: the Pahokee guys, Feagin, Barnum. And I guess Terrence Robinson. It's hard to interpret Wermers' "crowd" in a way that doesn't mean poor black kids from Florida, and I guess Terrence Robinson.
Which is all the long way of saying that 19 year olds should offer pat, positive answers and shut up, lest they say something that gives the wrong impression.
*(FWIW, Jones' decision was easy since ND did not offer.)
His comments: particularly his "not my crowd" comment, were not very well considered.
My first thought was his comment could be viewed as black players from the south not being the kind of guys he'd feels a family tie with (at best).
Given the revelation about academic ineligibility (whether that was chicken or egg), and the fact he wasn't approaching the two deep, it is pretty clear that despite being on a UofM team with the least experienced offensive line in most people's memory -- this guy was just not working out. Apparently the different guys who are not his crowd, also manage to maintain academic eligibility, and compete to be in the two deep.
So agreed: Kurt really would have been better off not saying a word, or just saying he and the program were not the best match.
are not Wermer's crowd?
Or maybe he was about to get put on Double Secret Probation?
See, to me, the "not my kind of crowd" thing is a throw-away.
It's like saying you read Playboy for the articles. It's not the real reason. The rest of it, the real (no pun intended) meat of his rationale lies in the work. He wanted a more laid back approach than Rodriguez and Barwis want. Maybe the staff makes it so he doesn't like football the way they coach it. And that's fine.
So that means he definitely did the right thing. If you don't want to work as hard playing football, there are a few things you can do. One is join an intramural team. Another is transfer to the MAC. Good for Wermers. He now won't have to work as hard at school or football. Thank God he won't be entering the job market for a few years. I would hate to see him against any kind of competition for a job.
Boss: "Can you work any Saturdays?"
Wermers: "Seriously? Sorry man, I spend my Saturdays trying to finally beat my nephew at Trivial Pursuit. You run this place too much like a business. I'm transferring to Chrysler."
I remember when Sportscenter a while back had a feature on the town of Pahokee. Even though it was a poor town the guys that lived there from the feature really seemed like great guys who worked very hard every day. So I was upset when this first came out because I thought he was calling out the kids that we were getting from southern Florida. If he did or not good riddance to him. It's one thing to want to transfer, it's another thing entirely to go out and try to call out the program because you were leaving.
Both RR and Greg Robinson have said they are impressed with the conditioning of the players. Such effusive praise and optimism is hard to come by from these two demanding personalities. You're not hearing the "I wish I had another month with these guys" line anymore. I think Barwis really sets a high standard that some ppl simply cannot achieve. And he doesn't feel bad about guys who fail because it's not like he can't get any other good players. Is that a "business"-like atmosphere, yeah probably. But it's good for the players and it mimics real life.
And I don't buy the argument that playing football makes you any less of a college student than just going to college. College itself is great for the friendships you make and what not, but at the end of the day, you're competing with other students for the top grades and the best professional opportunities. Competition is a reality of life and I'm glad we're seeing that from the football and basketball programs. In the end, competition makes us stronger.
I think what he meant by his comment was the RR was bringing in players that pushed themselves the extra mile. Those that were willing to stay in the weight room after the regular workout session was over or stayed out on the field to run a few extra sprints to help themselves get in better shape. See Wermer was one of those players that was ready to get back to his cozy little room as soon as he could. These new players were making him look bad....and he just couldn't have that
I was tempted to +1 you here, if only because you are a WVU fan who is not trying to trash RR. But, I'm getting stingy w/ my pluses.
Edit: eh, +1
not just "douchey" MGoBlog user, but now TRUSTED MGoBlog user
I have a hard time reconciling the 'not my crowd' quote with the last one in the article - "I loved my teammates".
Kids.
redefining epic fail, one comment at a time
You know, I have OSU friends (yes, I am sorry) who still send me those jokes about criminal football players (such as Michigan went 9 and 3, nine arrests and three convictions!) with the college changed to Michigan.
And I will say, "WTF?! What are you chimps talking about? RR has had one - ONE - guy who had some issues (Grady)."
"RR is scUM! He is sleazy," they yell.
The point is that RR has had a vastly cleaner program as measured by Fulmer type events than Carr. And not one of his recruits has had an issue. It's early, sure. But taking the opposite perspective - that RR has a bunch of hoodlum criminals running around - is unhinged.
"Fear. Columbus is rank with it. Let us ease their pain."
Didn't Stonum get suspended a game for a DUI?
Who's more likely to be a diva--the one getting soft treatment from his coaching staff, or the one being yelled at and pushed to his limits mentally and physically? I think if you are treated like royalty you act like royalty.
I'm Rich, beeyotch!
And to address what Sgt. Wolverine asked (and please hear this as a friendly explanation): I think a lot of us (myself included) are pretty defensive when it comes to Coach Rodriguez. I see a guy with an Appalachian accent from coal mining country who's bringing in some black kids from some tough, southern places to play at one of the elite northern football schools in the country. He's starting right there was some strikes against him...I'm admittedly hugely biased, but when someone takes a crack at some of the new guys then I'm pretty defensive about it. Have you seen any of the video about Pahokee? Those kids are poorer than hell. That town doesn't have a McDonalds or a movie theatre. Vincent Smith, for one, seems like a heck of a kid. Maybe he's not. I don't know. But I like Vincent Smith and I want him to be a good guy, so I'm inclinded to be defensive until presented with facts that disrupt my vision of things...Do I need a vacation? Yes, yes I do.
"That's horrible"
"Terrible is what it is."
ultimately though, i'd go back to brian's original point. i think the "not my crowd" is more of an indictment of lloyd than of RR. like 85% of the roster is composed of carr recruits.
"Real n*gg*z do real things." -Braylon Edwards
FYI, you are missing 'whore' in your sig.
Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me.
When I first saw his comments I was indeed perplexed. Thank you Brian for addressing the issue, I too thought that he might have been aiming it at some of our southern recruits. Now for a side story... I came from a school in NJ that was very diverse, like 50% African American diverse. Anyway, when I got up to Michigan I was shocked by the lack of diversity at the school (not that it's a positive or a negative, just something I noticed right away). After meeting people from Michigan, all of whom told me stories about how diverse Michigan was in comparison to their HS's it made me think. The same school in two people's eyes are exactly opposite in terms of diversity. Now I don't know exactly what HS or town Wermers was from, but after thinking about all the kids I went to school with, I would venture to guess that Brian is correct about his "poor black kids from florida" theory.
The "not my crowd" statement must refer to people that like to give 120% all the time.
What I'm having trouble understanding is why this matters so much. A guy leaves the program and makes a few very inadvisable vague statements on his way out, and this explosion of hatred -- along with some unfounded accusations of racism -- results? Yeah, his comments were sort of obnoxious, but ultimately, they're not really that important. Move on.
sgtwolverine.com
i think it probably has a lot to do with the fact that they're airing new half-hour episodes of college football live and it's freaking july. what else are they going to talk about? the president's suspiciously not-aired-live first pitch? making it seem like the white house was going to lebron/nike the tapes if he two-hopped it? actually, they should talk about that.
"Real n*gg*z do real things." -Braylon Edwards
Well, no hatred here. And I don't think racism has anything to do with it. But I would argue you're mistaken that his comments aren't important when you look at the pattern being promoted in the media...and on the recruiting trail.
I have zero facts, but I bet this negative recruiting bonanza available to opposing coaches has cost us more than one kid since RR has arrived. And we are short-handed. I don't matter, but I think Brian's piece and the piece of Rivals today (very good) are important and getting the Michigan side of the story into circulation.
"Fear. Columbus is rank with it. Let us ease their pain."
I'm not concerned so much with Brian's post as I am with the bulk of the comments on this and other Wermers-related posts. That's what I see as unnecessary and over the top.
sgtwolverine.com
I'm not concerned so much with Brian's post as I am with the bulk of the comments on this and other Wermers-related posts. That's what I see as unnecessary and over the top.
sgtwolverine.com
reveals his opinion on this subject. Others are giving their opinions. I don't see a difference between the two.
It's an important topic from the standpoint of media perception. It matters.
I'm gonna take two weeks off, and then quit.
It sounds like you're concerned for the negative talk about Wermers. But what of the negative talk about all the other players on the team?
I don't think it's fair to be concerned with negative comments about one kid, without being at least equally concerned with the negative comment thrown at a whole bunch of other kids.
If you're really concerned with comments, then you should FIRST be concerned with the FIRST comment that started it all:
"...not my kind of crowd..."
Deal with that first, then you can bitch about all the comments being thrown at the guy that made that comment to begin with. Fair's fair.
The Wolverine Liberation Army- saving Michigan fans one dick joke at a time.
I'm concerned with the pointlessness of the negative talk here. You're correct: he made negative comments about his former teammates. But as far as I can tell, nobody here is a former Michigan teammate of Wermers, nor is anyone here a coach in the program. Those are the people who really have the right to be upset at his comments, and those are the people who should deal with it how they see fit (which, it seems, is not to deal with it publicly). As just a fan, I don't see how I really have reason to pick apart Wermers.
So I'm not dealing with his comments because I don't think it's necessary for me to deal with them, and I'm dealing with other comments here because I don't think it was necessary for anyone else here to deal with them, either.
sgtwolverine.com
"But as far as I can tell, nobody here is a former Michigan teammate of Wermers, nor is anyone here a coach in the program. Those are the people who really have the right to be upset at his comments, and those are the people who should deal with it how they see fit."
Ok, so in your opinion, only those directly affected by a negative comment should talk about it and/or deal with it. I don't agree, but that's a reasonable opinion.
"and I'm dealing with other comments here because I don't think it was necessary for anyone else here to deal with them"
Wait, WTF? You just finished explaining why people shouldn't be dealing with negative comments that don't affect them, yet that's exactly what you're doing. If in your opinion it's not appropriate to discuss negative comments that don't directly affect you, then you shouldn't even be in here since none of the negative talk directly affects you.
The Wolverine Liberation Army- saving Michigan fans one dick joke at a time.
I think people are trying to figure out what, exactly, he means when he says that Rodriguez's players (of whom he's met around 12) are not "his crowd". It's hard not to take that as an indictment of them, isn't it? So what does he mean? Maybe they're not a capella singers or something? Or maybe he's just spouting nonsense (most likely) to not talk about why he IS leaving - he's not high on the depth chart, it's too hard, he doesn't like the school...whatever it is.
wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog
do we ever need some freaking football.
Can someone liveblog the Band workouts in August, just to have something pertinent?
and yellow the MOON
on the harvest wain
Wermers! Squirmers! We don't care bout no freakin Wermers! Was Wermers with us when we bombed Pearl Harbor? NO! Was Wermers with us when we shot down Francis Gary Powers? NO! Did Wermer at the 1969 Tet Offensive? NO! Did Wermers set Michael Jackson's freaking hair on fire? NO! We are not the kind of crowd Wermers wants to associate with, we can deal with that! A barrel full of monkeys is bound to have one or two malcontents. What I can't take, and what I find so UNACCEPTABLE is that...I forgot what I was gonna say, but if I could remember it I am sure you would be impressed. So, I hope you learned your lesson and will return to being the Michigan Men gay people around the world abhor.
Potato Salad.
Infinity can only happen once. Think about that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwGXMryTbwE
FYI all I watched College Football Live and they weren't all that negative about this. Brock Huard gave a pretty good answer on this.
Where I saw the most spin was in there videos of Carr and Rodriguez. They would show a clip of RR yelling on the sidelines, then one of Carr standing stoically on the sidelines. They repeated this several times, implying RR always yells and Carr never did.
It was wonderful having such a nice pussycat for a coach back then. And his relationship with the media was so nice and open and friendly. And he took criticism so well!
and the 40 Thieves.
Between the West Virginia writer and now this, Brian is doling how some heavy pwnage this week.
I'm Rich, beeyotch!
Eight word summary:
Michigan transfer not only FAT but also RACIST.
...and STUPID.
100 guys on a football team? If Wermers transferred because 4 or 16 of them weren't "his crowd" then good riddance.
is that Wermers directly implied that Rodriguez is bringing in bad kids who are not the good, boy-scout Carr recruits that Wermers prefers to associate with, like Larry Harrison, Eugene Germany, Marcus Slocum, Adrian Arrington, Kevin Grady, Chris Richards, Mario Manningham, and Carson Butler, to name just a few of the more recent players with questionable actions on their resumés. That's why the reference to "type of crowd" is transparent bullshit—it's code for kids from down south who are willing to work way harder than I am and who are better than I am, and who don't mind the coaches yelling at them to boot.
But good luck to him down at Ball State anyhow. I always was a Stan Parrish fan, so maybe he can make a mature man out of him.
If you ever denigrate Fuck Lion like that again.
Just kidding.
Really, though, Marques wasn't a thug or someone who recklessly endangered others' lives or someone who ran his 300 lb. ass naked through the streets, so far as I know. He was just someone that was probably as uneducated as a country stump, and had little desire to try to make in an institution of higher learning. Which isn't evil or anything.
Kelly Baraka...
"The remainder: the Pahokee guys, Feagin, Barnum. And I guess Terrence Robinson. It's hard to interpret Wermers' "crowd" in a way that doesn't mean poor black kids from Florida, and I guess Terrence Robinson."
Even though I am sure that what he meant was that he disliked having to work his ass off to compete against guys who are serious, focused and hyper motivated; it is far too easy to come to the conclusion at the end of Brian's article...sad really.
Go Blue!
"It just seems as though there's something there or we wouldn't be hearing things like this from players as they're leaving."
Do you pay attention to the comments made by all transfers from all programs? I'm asking seriously, as I don't, but I'll bet my salary you'll see the exact same thing as we're seeing at UM: (1) new program, (2) some kids transfer, (3) vast majority of transfers don't say sh*t (O'Neill, etc.), (4) some transfers feel the need to justify their transfer (so as not to seem like a quitter), which inevitably makes it seems like they blame the program.
You REALLY don't think we'd ever hear this stuff from transfers unless there was a problem with the program?
"Not my kind of crowd."
I issued this challenge yesterday, and I issue it again to the crowd. Please interpret that statement to mean something other than:
A. Kurt Wermers is a closeted bigot.
B. Kurt Wermers is a Whiny Ass Titty Baby who didn't like being beaten out on the depth chart.
I really see no other way to interpret his comment. I'd love to hear a more forgiving explanation for "not my kind of crowd," but until I do Kurt Wermers can go fuck himself for all I care. He's low class.
The Wolverine Liberation Army- saving Michigan fans one dick joke at a time.
...it's pretty obvious the answer is b (although I'm not sure if he's a Titty Baby or a Titty Babby).
Anyway, when this first leaked, he supposedly felt constrained by his duties to the team in order to meet his academic desires. He reiterated as much with the recent "business" comment in the newspaper. Now, seeing as how other guys (read :everyone else on the team) seem to make it work between academics and the new super demanding football regimen, I'm not sure how much water that holds, but whatevs. The rest is cover fire.
And as you and MDan hash out above, he shouldn't have thrown out the "not my kind of crowd" because, at best, it makes you look petty.
In closing, titty babby.
Wolverine Liberation Army
Give me piss troughs or give me death.
B, obviously.
Do you really think he came to Michigan to find a lilly white team? Black players predominate in major football programs, including a mid-major like Ball State.
He was at the bottom of a depth chart and everyone in front of him was eating scrap iron to prepare for Wolverine Barwis RR Death Football. I am sure he and O'Neill probably bitched about how football wasn't fun over video games.
"Fear. Columbus is rank with it. Let us ease their pain."
There are ways to exit gracefully if you don't have the necessary fire to continue. I've seen it, I've done it, and there are no hard feelings after the fact.
This was a pretty mean-spirited attempt to somehow obscure the fact that Wermers didn't have the fire anymore. He can't bear to admit that the cause was himself, not the program and not RichRod. So he essentially lied about the cause of his departure.
And by telling a mean-spirited lie, Wermers deserves every bit of criticism coming his way, IMHE. Fuck him.
The Wolverine Liberation Army- saving Michigan fans one dick joke at a time.
Agreed. Low class exit. Sounds like excuses my kids make up.
"Fear. Columbus is rank with it. Let us ease their pain."
Will Campbell tried to eat him.
I have a Fandom Endurance III merit badge
Otters are not known to harm wolverines.
However, they are noted to be agressive toward broncos, fighting Irishmen, members of the Huron tribe and their pet eagles, Hoosiers, Spartans, eyes of hawk, mountain lions, members of the tribes that made up the Illini confederation, shots of whiskey in a beer, badgers, and can even safely (but aggressively) consume large amounts of poisonous tree nuts.
Barwis told him not to though... unless he had several gallons of chocolate milk to wash it down with.
brian, check the mgoblog@gmail account. I sent a long email hopefully explaining all of this.