No Damn Reason At All Comment Count

Brian

11/26/2016 – Michigan 27, Ohio State 30 (2OT) – 10-2, 7-2 Big Ten

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[Eric Upchurch]

After all that, the thing that sticks with me is something much more prosaic than the various outrages everyone's going on about. It's third and four in the fourth quarter. Ohio State literally triple-covers Jake Butt; Wilton Speight finds Amara Darboh open on a quick slant. The ball is behind Darboh, tough but catchable. Darboh does not catch it. Michigan punts with five minutes and change left on the clock.

Why did that happen?

I don't know. Nobody does, but very few people tasked with writing about a thing will tell you that. Everyone else will reach for any explanation of remote plausibility, from an injured shoulder to CHOKING like a CLOWN FRAUD. Whatever, doesn't matter. Just as long as there's a reason a thing occurred, we can go on with our lives.

I think that happened for no damn reason at all. Yes, if you replaced Speight with Tom Brady that pass was more likely to be accurate. If you replaced him with Tyler O'Connor, less likely. It is still a simple five-yard throw that is amongst the easiest in the quarterback's repertoire. It is within the capabilities of the QB. Speight probably hits 90% of them, especially on a day where he is locked in. The most likely explanation for why he did not hit that one is none at all. The most likely reason Darboh did not catch a tough but catchable pass is none at all.

There are entire fields of study dedicated to the fallibility of the human brain, which refuses to operate cleanly. (I just put a D into the word "entire" as I was typing that sentence out.) These exist mostly because planes crash into each other and space shuttles explode and not because football happens sometimes, which just goes to show that people have strange priorities.

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Speaking of the fallibility of the human brain:

It is hard to take that sort of thing. Michigan had just gotten a flag on a similar, but less severe, defensive holding incident on the prior Ohio State drive. That ended a Michigan drive that had reached midfield; if called correctly Michigan has first and ten at the Ohio State 40.

Later in the game the same pattern would repeat. Delano Hill was flagged for pass interference on third and 14 when he unnecessarily grabbed the waist of Curtis Samuel before the ball arrived; the exact same thing happened to Grant Perry on a third down conversion attempt and was ignored. Again, that sets Michigan up with a first down, this one on the ten in the second overtime. Again it was preceded by a call so similar against Michigan it beggars belief that a flag did not come out.

That's tough to get over. The spot was close enough and chaotic enough that it falls within the realm of the unknowable. An MGoUser who knows what parallax is and went over available evidence with a fine-toothed comb thinks Barrett made it by literally an inch or two. While I thought the spot was wrong I knew they would not overturn it, because they never overturn spots without some sort of egregious his-knee-was-down-ten-yards-ago kind of thing. In isolation that call is, in the cold light of day two days later, too close to have a definitive resolution. If it was wrong it very well could have been an honest mistake.

It is difficult to interpret either of the above incidents as honest, or a mistake. It's difficult to see a standard-issue Harbaugh blowup get flagged in the Game when we've seen the same thing tolerated all year. It's difficult to believe that Michigan's defensive line hasn't benefited from a holding call since the Illinois game.

This is the point at which newspapery types come in with the You Had Your Opportunities To Win The Game, an asinine criticism since that's literally true of both teams in every close game ever played. You can believe that Michigan had opportunities to win they did not take and simultaneously believe that the officiating gave you less than a 50/50 shot in a 50/50 game.

And then you're putting guys out on the field from the state of Ohio who were previously banned from working The Game because of how it might look? What the fuck are you even doing, Big Ten?

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[Patrick Barron]

What's that? Counting your money? Right. Well done.

--------------------------------------------

Michigan lost this game. They did so for many reasons.

Their mistakes were punished as ruthlessly as possible. A floating ball goes directly to a defender. A fumbled snap is recovered by the defense. Curtis Samuel escapes a huge loss three times and sets up the fourth down that falls within the margin of error.

They did not take advantage of plays that were there to be made. Speight threw behind Darboh twice; Darboh did not bail him out. Karan Higdon missed a cut on what would have been a huge gain. Smith did not run over a safety prior to the fumble.

They did not get a fair whistle. See above.

All that and it came down to a literal inch. A rivalry classic, and an invitation for a bunch of hooting jackals to hoot some more. As for us on the other side, nothing to do but soldier on in the gray light of morning.

AWARDS

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there is another [Bryan Fuller]

Known Friends And Trusted Agents Of The Week

-2535ac8789d1b499[1]you're the man now, dog

#1 Taco Charlton was the most rampant of Michigan's very rampant defensive line, acquiring two and a half sacks and forcing Barrett to move around several other times.

#2 (tie) Ben Gedeon and Mike McCray shut off the Ohio State edge except on a couple plays where Michigan was successfully out-leveraged pre-snap. It was weird to see neutrals on twitter wondering why anyone would run east-west against The Michigan Defense, but they were, because it didn't work. They picked up 19 tackles between them, two sacks, another TFL, and McCray batted down two passes. McCray also forced a sack when he leapt in the passing lane of a third.

#3 Kenny Allen bombed all but one of his punts; he mastered the Ron Coluzzi hard right turn; he had just one touchback, that on a punt that still had a 40+ yard net; Curtis Samuel had just one quickly snuffed return opportunity; he hit a couple field goals; none of his kickoffs were returnable.

Honorable mention: Channing Stribling broke up the only deep shot on the day; OSU decided they were not going to bother with either him or Jourdan Lewis. The rest of the defensive line was terrific all day; the tackles were very good in pass protection against some tough customers. Peppers had a big KOR, an interception, and was also a major part of the edge being closed down.

KFaTAotW Standings.

10: Wilton Speight (#1 UCF, #1 Illinois, #3 MSU, #1 Maryland), Taco Charlton(three-way T1, PSU, same vs Rutgers, #3 Maryland, #2 Iowa, #2 Indiana, #1 OSU).
9: Jabrill Peppers(T2, Hawaii; #3 UCF, #1 Colorado, #2 Rutgers, #2 MSU)
5: Ryan Glasgow(#2 UCF, #1 UW), Chris Wormley (three-way T1, PSU, same vs Rutgers, #1 Iowa).
4: Jourdan Lewis (#3 UW, #2 Maryland, #3 Indiana), Mike McCray(#1 Hawaii, T2 OSU), Ben Gedeon(#3 Colorado, #3 PSU, three-way T1 Rutgers, T2 OSU).
3.5: De'Veon Smith (four-way T2, PSU, #1 Indiana).
3: Amara Darboh(#1 MSU).
2.5: Karan Higdon(four-way T2, PSU, #2 Illinois).
2: Jake Butt(#2 Colorado), Kyle Kalis (#2 UW)
1: Delano Hill (T2, Hawaii), Chris Evans (T3, Hawaii, four-way T2, PSU),  Maurice Hurst (three-way T1, PSU),  Devin Asiasi(#3 Rutgers), Ben Braden (#3 Illinois), Channing Stribling (#3 Iowa), Kenny Allen (#3 OSU).
0.5: Mason Cole(T3, Hawaii), Ty Isaac (four-way T2, PSU).

Who's Got It Better Than Us Of The Week

This week's best thing ever.

It's a goat in a duck costume!

Honorable mention: is that not sufficient

WGIBTUs Past.

Hawaii: Laughter-inducing Peppers punt return.
UCF: Speight opens his Rex Grossman account.
Colorado: Peppers cashes it in.
PSU: Wormley's sack establishes a theme.
UW: Darboh puts Michigan ahead for good.
Rutgers: Peppers presses "on".
Illinois: TRAIN 2.0.
MSU: lol, two points.
Maryland: very complicated bomb.
Iowa: The touchdown.
Indiana: Smith woodchips Michigan a lead.
OSU: Goat. Duck costume. Yeah.

imageMARCUS HALL EPIC DOUBLE BIRD OF THE WEEK.

This week's worst thing ever.

The Spot.

Honorable mention: The ensuing play. Speight fumbles the snap; Speight gets hit on the throw and offers up a pick six; Speight throws an INT that is on him; various refereeing malfeasances.

PREVIOUS EPIC DOUBLE BIRDs

Hawaii: Not Mone again.
UCF: Uh, Dymonte, you may want to either tackle or at least lightly brush that guy.
Colorado: Speight blindsided.
PSU: Clark's noncontact ACL injury.
UW: Newsome joins the ranks of the injured.
Rutgers: you can't call back the Mona Lisa of punt returns, man.
Illinois: They scored a what now? On Michigan? A touchdown?
Michigan State: a terrifying first drive momentarily makes you think you're in the mirror universe.
Maryland: Edge defense is a confirmed issue.
Iowa: Kalis hands Iowa a safety.
Indiana: A legitimate drive.
OSU: The Spot.

[After THE JUMP: ~3000 additional words, 43% of which are swears.]

OFFENSE

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[Upchurch]

Seemed kind of good, and then very bad, and then kind of good again. Wilton Speight has some pretty odd stats for a guy who seemed to carry Michigan's offense by himself: 6.1 yards an attempt, which is bad. Add in two interceptions and it's very bad. Add in a disastrous fumbled snap and... it is not better. That did not make things better.

One of the interceptions was not his fault. Speight IDed Chesson open behind a picket fence zone and threw it to him; Raekwon McMillian, who got in scot free, intervened before he could complete his throwing motion. It's just crap luck the ball went directly to a defender.

The other INT and the fumble are directly on Speight, with Cole maybe factoring in on the fumble. On the one hand, those lost the game. On the other, Michigan was in position to win it because Speight was calm, accurate, and brave.

No deep shots. Part of the reason Michigan's YPA was so low was a total lack of deep balls. A sail route completion to Jake Butt for 22 yards was Michigan's longest gain of the day, and a fair chunk of that was yards after the catch. I have to assume that was due to Speight's injury. Either he couldn't get the necessary oomph on deep balls or Michigan was loathe to expose him to the OSU pass rush because they feared he would get knocked out.

Just not enough. The one position group that was clearly overwhelmed was the offensive line. Smith and Evans combined to average under three yards a carry, and most of that was on the OL unable to generate much of anything.

This was a Hoke legacy Harbaugh was unable to overcome. Whatever improvements Michigan was able to generate in their senior trio did not get them to All Big Ten levels, let alone All America, with the possible exception of Erik Magnuson. (My opinion: meh, but depending on the NFL scout you listen to he's apparently got a chance.) When Grant Newsome, a true sophomore, got knocked out for the year a true freshman replaced him. There was zero depth behind the starters and that bit hard as Ben Bredeson struggled, as true freshmen tend to.

This was partially bad luck. The nature of Logan Tuley-Tillman's departure could not be predicted. It was partially terrible evaluation. Michigan passed on LSU All-American Ethan Pocic because they thought they were full, then took Dan Samuelson towards the end of the cycle. Samuelson quit football soon after realizing he was overmatched in year two. It was partially a lack of ruthlessness: Chris Fox had a terrible knee injury that made him unlikely to work out in college and Michigan still took him. Fox did transition to a medical scholarship relatively quickly, but Michigan didn't react to his inability to play quickly enough. It was partially crappy coaching, because Hoke.

The tackles pass-protected well, though.

Aaargh. Michigan's offset draw worked to near perfection except for one thing. Higdon did not cut behind Cole.

That's a huge, huge gain otherwise.

Smith did not flatten the fishing village. While we're complaining about running backs, Malik Hooker twice hewed down De'Veon Smith in ways I did not think were possible for a safety. The first turned out to be a game changing play, as it came when Smith busted to the second level on a goal-to-go carry. As he did so I thought "YES!!!" because surely this was a touchdown; surely I had seen sufficient Smith-versus-secondary matchups to know that the two safeties coming in at an angle had precious little chance to shut Smith down without YAC.

And yet, Hooker did. Speight fumbled on the ensuing snap. That tackle is the play of the game, along with all the other ones.

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[Patrick Barron]

Perry had a solid day. Grant Perry hadn't had much impact this year, in part due to a mid-season suspension. Against OSU he was open repeatedly and hit for several critical third down conversions. I expect his role will grow considerably next year as Jake Butt's third down skills head to the NFL.

DEFENSE

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[Upchurch]

Can't ask for more. Michigan's defense gave up approximately ten points in regulation. OSU had three field goal drives, two of which their kicker missed, and turned first and ten from the fifteen into a touchdown with assistance from a personal foul on Harbaugh. OSU averaged under 4 yards a play.

Confusion even in game 12. Only two things even slightly ground the ol' gears. One of them was Michigan's confusion at various points during the game. OSU motion was all too frequently met with cabinet meetings amongst the Michigan secondary.

A four-man box against an empty set could not have been correct; it resulted in a 41-yard Barrett draw/scramble. Noah Brown was provided a free first down late in the game when Michigan put two DBs over three WRs. A couple other times Michigan did not get aligned; those instances did not have straight lines between tempo and success but there was a definite correlation. Michigan's rampant pass rush was most frequently nerfed when Michigan could not get set up and fire off on the snap.

I spent the first half of this year cautioning about Don Brown's significant year one costs and hoping they would get fixed over the course of the season. They did. Michigan busts dropped to normal levels by midseason, and whatever confusion they suffered they issued as well. That was the case in this game; I still got a bit frustrated at various ??? moments on OSU motion.

The other thing that rankled. OSU's final drive of regulation did not see Michigan solve their problems with aggression. On one level, I get it. You've been dominant, Barrett's rattled, you're up three. It's a situation where caution is called for early. Once OSU hits midfield it's time to get aggressive, especially since Barrett has done so poorly with pressure. Michigan did not amp it up; they rushed four, played zone, and generally abandoned the approach that had seen them dominate three quarters of the game.

I've defended Harbaugh's approach in a number of games this year, and still think the Lloydball stuff from the offense was justified given game contexts. I absolutely do not get Michigan's passivity on the final drive. I mean, I do. I've seen it time and again.  I was hoping for something else.

Mone with a big play. Bryan Mone's hype petered out thanks to an early season injury; when he did play he was unimpressive, which stoked worries for next year. Watching him obliterate an OSU OL to stuff a third and short Weber run was the best and biggest play of his career to date; hopefully he can follow up on that next year.

SPECIAL TEAMS

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[Upchurch]

PUNTAGEDDON. Put Indiana's punter on either of these teams and this is a 20-point game. Instead, Ron Coluzzi battled Ron Coluzzi atop Mount Puntlympus. Kenny Allen averaged 47 yards a kick with a 67-yarder and five punts inside the 20 against just one touchback, that on a super-long punt. OSU got one return in for two yards.

Cameron Johnston matched him with an average of 46 a pop, a long of 60, and one Peppers return for five yards. He also got run into, so he's got that going for him.

I can't wait to see the PFF grades. They might be positive.

They should get rid of running into the kicker. Roughing should stay. Every running into the kicker penalty I've seen is glancing contact that endangers nobody. Most of them feature the punter falling over theatrically. Running into the kicker is like the five-yard facemask penalty they got rid of a few years ago and should meet the same fate.

Jordan Glasgow, special teams, uh, specialist. The aftermath of OSU's fake punt was fascinating, as it quickly became apparent that Urban Meyer told the ESPN crew that they were going to going to run it against a certain Michigan formation no matter what. They got the formation, they ran it, and Jordan Glasgow stoned it. Glasgow set up outside, got off a block, got held, still got off that block, and make a tackle with help from Chris Wormley to turn OSU over on downs.

That was the most spectacular but far from the only excellent special teams play Glasgow's made over the last couple years. He's made a habit of hewing down kick returners. I wouldn't entirely rule him out from playing time on defense next year. 1) Is Glasgow, 2) you don't make that kind of consistent impact on special teams without being able to read a play and take on a block.

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[Barron]

Peppers: quite good. His kick return to Ohio State territory after the pick six might have stood as Michigan's play of the game in the event of a win. Jourdan Lewis had a momentarily dangerous but ultimately unsuccessful KOR of his own on the last play of regulation, and for a second there I thought Peppers was running to get in a pitch relationship with Lewis; instead he blocked a guy.

MISCELLANEOUS

At least we looked good. Can't say the same about OSU's rollerball-ass helmets.

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[Fuller]

This will console me. Yes.

Harbaugh was wrong about the facemask. Michigan was confused about the aftermath of the Cole facemask call, which ended up as a third and five instead of a first and ten. They were forced to call timeout, and Harbaugh got mad, which eventually ended up in that PF.

In this, at least, the refs were correct. The penalty was a live-ball foul. When it's a live-ball foul the ball is placed where it is after the penalty and then you either give or do not give the first down. If it was a dead ball foul, Michigan would have gotten the ball where Smith went out of bounds minus 15 yards and had first and ten. (This remains one of the oddest rules in football.)

I can only assume that Harbaugh thought the personal foul was something unsportsmanlike after the play because he'd never even thought a screen could see an OL attack the facemask of an opponent. I sure as hell didn't believe it until I saw it.

I don't think Michigan should get in the playoff. They are one of the four best teams. That shouldn't be enough. The committee needs to prioritize making regular season games really count or the whole fury of the regular season descends into a tepid simmer. I fully approve of the focus on championships and hope it would take something extraordinary for a non-champ to get in.

I'd go so far as to assert that Ohio State should not get in over Penn State. If Washington, Clemson, PSU, and Bama win their title games the playoff should be Bama, Clemson, Washington, and Penn State, in that order.

HERE

As mentioned, I think Santy's diary on the spot is the best possible analysis of a razor-close call.

Best And Worst:

Worst:  What Do You Think?

I'm broken.  I mean, not in a real sense:  I'm a grown-ass man with two kids, a beautiful wife, a fulfilling career, and my health (largely) still intact.  I don't have to worry about violent uprisings, disease, radioactive mosquitos, or alien invaders.  In the grand scheme of things, I'm doing fine.

But in sports terms, I'm as broken as Jeff Jarrett's guitar.  I guess I should be used to these types of games against OSU, but I'm not.  Games decided by last-second stands, crucial penalties, and terrible officiating are the norm in college sports, but it's only "chaos" when your passive bystander; when it's one of your teams, it's heartbreak.

Sten Carlson tries to offer some perspective:

I am usually not much for "Perspective Posts" after a loss, but in this instance I think it might be helpful.

24 months ago Michigan was sitting at 5-7 overall, and 3-5 in the Big 10.  Let that sink in for a moment ... and if it doesn't, continue reading.

Michigan started out with a hopeful 52-10 blowout of FCS App. St, only to follow it up with an embarassing 31-0 loss to ND in the last game of that storied rivalry.  Following this humilation, Michigan returned home to face the Miami (OH) Redhawks, whom they dispatched 34-10.  Ok, the ND game was an anomoly, just a bad game, we can overcome it, right?  Nope, the Utah Utes march into the Big House and promptly laid a 26-10 beatdown upon our beloved Wolverines.

Just went we thought things could not possibly get any worse, it seemed Hoke (and likely Brandon) had been listening to the fanbase's collective uproar for Shane Morris to replace Devin Gardner, and well ... it did not end well ... a 30-14 loss to Minnesota and of the oldest trophy in college football, Concussion-Gate, and another complete embarassment to the once proud program.

This was rock bottom, right?  Could it get worse than 2-3 and having Concussion-Gate splashed all over the media?  How's about a 26-24 loss to Rutgers (I mean seriously, FUCKING RUTGERS!!!!) in which we make the Scarlet Knights' inept QB look like freakin' Joe Tom Brady Montana as a salve for those wounds?  This HAD to be rock bottom, right?  Sitting at 2-4, and 0-2 in the Big 10, a ray of hope appeared through the clouds as Michigan was (somehow) able to knock off PSU 18-13, in kinda-sorta-not-so-much convincing fashion.  Hail, Hail ... a conference win!

The State of our Open Threads:

Let's start with something that won't shock anyone at all - we reached a season high for "fuck" and indeed, an all-time high for the four seasons that we've been going through this analysis now. No Ohio State game before yesterday, or indeed any game, can say that it resulted in 785 fucks in a game thread. That blows out the previous record, which was the Iowa game a couple week ago. It was also a season-high for shits given at 228, and that is also a high for shits given in the entire time that this analysis has been done. That won't shock anyone, or course - that was the most consequential game we have played in a long time, and I can only imagine the fucks and shits said aloud and off the record. I may have even contributed to the off the record total myself.....a lot.

CFP contenders breakdown. Going to take a lot.

ELSEWHERE

Fuuuuuuuu. Michigan's win expectancy, per S&P+: 83%.

Genuinely Sarcastic has the various ref outrages catalogued. Bill Connelly on the game, if you can go back over it some more. Why the playoff should stick at four. RIP Doug Lesmerises's mentions. PFF grades:

Jekyll and Hyde from Wolverines offense

One of the big questions entering the game was where the Wolverines would generate offensive production from; would they need to play 30 snaps with Jabrill Peppers at quarterback? Ultimately, they didn’t and they exceeded many expectations for their production but came up short in key moments to clinch their victory their performance deserved. Amara Darboh came up with some big catches, including the overtime TD shaking Marshon Lattimore at the line to get open, but he dropped a pair of passes. Similarly, the ground game was nothing more than steady, keeping the Ohio State defense honest but failing to rip off more than one play of ten yards or more. Will this valiant defeat be enough to keep the Wolverines in the playoff picture?

Kyle Kalis and Tyrone Wheatley made the top five with grades of 54. Ugly all around.

Dr. Sap. TTB. Holdin' the Rope:

Never underestimate the rivalry's ability to find that spot, the one that hurts the most. A well-placed nudge to the unsuspecting elicits a yowl, a yelp, a cringing collapse on the floor.

Just when you thought the rivalry couldn't yield a more painful outcome, it did on Saturday, when No. 2 Ohio State bested No. 3 Michigan, 30-27, in double overtime. It was the first overtime game in the history of the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry, and thus presented Michigan with a chance to lose in a new way.

When the game ended, I quietly checked my phone for 10 minutes, taking in reactions from around the internet, positive and negative. But, eventually, I wondered if this game was even worth the consternation.

Hoover Street Rag:

In retrospect, they should have gone for two.  Speight wanted it.  It would have met with widespread approbation, win or lose, like a similar decision three years ago.  The defense was gassed because of the offense, led by the wounded Wilton Speight; one that managed five meager yards in the fourth quarter.  They had just found Amara Darboh in the back of the end zone at the end of the first overtime period.  But they did not, putting the game back on the offense and it nearly worked until Grant Perry was mugged on third down, forcing Michigan to settle for a field goal.

Orange Bowl the current best guess as to the bowl game. FSU or Louisville are potential matchups. Same. Embarrassed? Embarrassing would have been 3-9.

Comments

unWavering

November 28th, 2016 at 1:28 PM ^

I've been arguing with a couple of guys at work today about the playoffs - I don't know how you can justify putting PSU or Wisconsin in over Michigan when Michigan has a 39 points win over PSU, and Wisconsin lost to both Michigan and OSU. Michigan doesn't "deserve" a playoff spot, maybe. But if you think that, then neither does OSU. Wisconsin is only in the title game by virtue of which division they were in. PSU earned their spot there, but it's quite obvious to all involved that they are actually the third best team in the divison.

ShittyPlaceKicker

November 28th, 2016 at 1:26 PM ^

Honestly, I will probably never get over this loss. That being said, I am excited to see this game next year. We will be better, we will not make as many mistakes, we will not get hosed by the refs.

I am excited for retribution.

jmblue

November 28th, 2016 at 4:28 PM ^

We've gotten jobbed our last 3 rivalry games (MSU - 2015 and 2016; OSU - 2016)
That would be 3 out of 4 actually, since 2015 OSU was in there, too. And 2016 MSU was a little different than the other two - officiating wasn't really a factor until the last 5-6 minutes, when MSU benefitted from some pity refereeing with the game out of hand.

evenyoubrutus

November 28th, 2016 at 1:41 PM ^

I know what you mean about not getting over it.  Even if we show up and pound them next year, there is still that bitterness.  It's like with MSU, I did not "get over" trouble with the snap after we pounded them in their place because that should have been back-to-back wins over Dantonio instead of a revenge game.  And next year's Game will feel the same way, assuming we can actually beat them.

The Harbaughnger

November 28th, 2016 at 9:35 PM ^

Even if we're rebuilding, we have to take the condition of our opponents into consideration at the same point in time. So OSU reloads...doesn't mean we can't 2016 PSU our way to the conf champ game. I don't not know enough about the trajectories of each of the other teams we'll play to know if a 2017 UM rebuilding year is the same as 'we'll be down next year'. You've also got to consider that Harbaugh will be in year 3, and I can't help but think this will be a positive even with personal transition from Hoke's era. We're rounding a corner...the only question is...how far into the corner are we? I think we're picking up steam.

Captain Murphy

November 28th, 2016 at 1:27 PM ^

Yeah, I agree with Brian, definitely staying away from the Nick Baumgardner Hot-Take Machine after this one. I don't really need any more oppotunities to hear him:

1) Bash the team for not being very good.

2) Bash the fans for getting upset about the team because, in direct contrast to point 1, the team is fantastic.

3) Bash Harbaugh because he isn't always forthcoming and can be kind of gruff. Imagine, a college coach acting in such a manner!

Blue Sharpie

November 28th, 2016 at 1:29 PM ^

If Clemson and Washington both lose their championship games, I think they slide below Michigan. Colorado would stay behind Michigan because of head to head. Michigan should take the 4 seed and have the prospect of playing Alabama, while a rematch between Ohio State and the Big 10 champ in the 2,3 game. Very improbable, but possible.

schreibee

November 28th, 2016 at 2:25 PM ^

You are so wrong!

IF psu, Clemson, Wash all win their conference titles, osu will get in over psu despite H2H win & conf title for psu.

Book it, mark it, whatever you like to do with it. I will wager you if you'd like!

OR were you only referring to our chances?

God, can you imagine if they jumped psu up, Clem & Wash edge them out being conference champs as well?!

Fuck, might be worth the whole thing! Will not happen, but can I just imagine it a bit longer?

Squash34

November 28th, 2016 at 11:58 PM ^

Over Michigan the situation mentioned above, despite Michigan utterly destroying them. Then if Clemson and Washington both win then psu has to get in over osu, who they beat. If you leave out non coferance champ Michigan to a psu they crushed you have to leave out osu to a conference champ psu, who they won. In fact. Your logic dictates osu can't get in over Wisconsin either. So they can only get in if two big ten teams are in.

mgobaran

November 29th, 2016 at 8:14 AM ^

No, not at all. The question is does Michigan stay ahead of Colorado and Wisc./PSU if Clemson and Washington lose. If Clemson and Washington lose there will be four 2-loss teams looking to get picked for the final 2 spots. 

Colorado - 2 losses, Pac 12 Champs
Penn St/Wisc. - 2 losses, B1G Champs
Clemson - 2 losses, played 1 extra game.
Michigan - lost 2 of last 3 games.

Our fan base is delusional if they think the commitee will look at our wins from 2 months ago as better than a Conference Championship victory.

Also, it would not surprise me if Ohio St. was left out to conference champions only if Clemson and Washington win. Penn State should get in over Ohio St. in that case (1 more loss, but H2H win+Championship). Wisconsin should not (1 more loss, H2H loss). 

schreibee

November 29th, 2016 at 1:14 PM ^

psu "Should" get in over osu with conference title... but WON'T!

This is what I offered to wager you over. I'll add to that offer that IF Wash & Clem both should lose, opening up maybe 2 spots at 3-4, Colorado will NOT jump over us, nor "should" Oklahoma even if you call them a "conference champ" if they beat Ok St. Their 21 pt home beat down by ohio st "should" definitely be taken under consideration, even if it was 2+ months ago.

My contention is that ohio is in the CFP no matter what occurs in the various conference games this weekend. And my OPINION is if either Wash or Clem loses WE "should" be in as well.

 

WestSider

November 28th, 2016 at 1:32 PM ^

feel outrage again while reading this. Instead, just the ebbing numbness of a game that slipped away for numerous reasons. But the dagger that keeps twisting in my heart is the officiating. I know its just a game, but my emotions say otherwise.

Jkidd49

November 28th, 2016 at 1:32 PM ^

OSU on a CFP run would have to qualify as unmitigated rock-bottom... 

between this and last years MSU game, you have to wonder whether fandom is worth the heartache.

FieldingBLUE

November 28th, 2016 at 1:33 PM ^

Screen pass to Ty Isaac against the Hoosiers with a similar type of block in the back call downfield. Refs gave M the first down after marking off 15 yards from spot of foul.

I assumed that was the right call. Against OSU that was my reaction (like Harbaugh's) that based on last week, this should be a first down albeit farther back. 

Of course, B1G refs getting things wrong is more normalized now. *sigh*

Alton

November 28th, 2016 at 1:54 PM ^

It was a first down because the flag was 12 yards past the first down marker.  Even after the 10 yard penalty, Michigan had enough yards for the first down.

Michigan had the ball 2nd and 9 on their own 47.  Isaac took the pass and ran to about the Indiana 25 or so, but there was a flag at the Indiana 32:  Illegal Block in the back by Jehu Chesson.  That takes the ball back 10 yards to the Indiana 42.  But since the line to gain was the Indiana 44, Michigan got a first down by 2 yards.

evenyoubrutus

November 28th, 2016 at 1:34 PM ^

The scary thing about OSU: if the depth chart I found is accurate, they literally have ONE senior on their starting lineup (Their center).  However, they do have six or seven guys with eligibility to go pro on defense.  They will almost certainly return everyone on offense except for probably Samuel. And if all their defensive players decide to come back to make a run at a natty next year, holy moly.

Rabbit21

November 28th, 2016 at 2:37 PM ^

It'll be a young team that will have had an entire years worth of starting experience and development.  If the coaching staff is worth their salt, then the gap between players at the beginning of the year should close.

You may remember these arguments from the exact same points people were making about this years Ohio State team.  

Not saying it's going to happen, but better than spending an entire year conceding The Game again.

Ghost of Fritz…

November 28th, 2016 at 2:11 PM ^

is still a streaky eratic thrower.

Their o-line still is not great.  Nothing like their 2015 o-line.  They could get in the same trap as Michigan's o-line of the last three years--not terrible enough to scrap it and just play new guys that are too young, but not good enough to be dominant.

Also, their receivers appear to be just o.k, nothing special. 

OSU 2015 >>> OSU 2016.  No guarantee that OSU 2017 will be any better than OSU 2016.

corundum

November 28th, 2016 at 2:15 PM ^

I'm optimistic. They lose their best offensive lineman off an already mediocre unit. Curtis Samuel is probably gone. JT Barrett hasn't progressed his passing ability in three years, he will still be dangerous on the ground but he'll never be a great passer. Some of the defense will enter the draft early. For Michigan: Speight a year older and wiser, hopefully healthy when the game rolls around. If not, a viable backup QB will be highly likely in either Peters or an older O'Korn. The offensive line will be young but I can't inagine it will be worse than this year. The defense will step back from elite but will probably be good with another year of learning Brown's system. The game will be home and OSU will still likely be favored, but this looks to set up another great matchup where winning isn't outside the realm of possibility.

markusr2007

November 28th, 2016 at 3:51 PM ^

He is only a junior. He had another very good year and the team's record of 11-1 speaks for itself.

But I sense the kid left a lot on the field as well struggling the throw consistently well this fall.

Do you think he stays for his 4th year at Ohio State? I could see him deciding to stay if the NFL evaluation says so. But NFL QB talent being what it is - namely horrible - scout will  probably look kindly on the entire JT Barrett package as a junior (big, fast, elusive, slippery, lethal at times short and deep with the right receiver talent, etc.)

buckeyejonross

November 28th, 2016 at 6:25 PM ^

Obviously, I have no sources or anything, but OSU's current roster has roughly 50 scholarship players with freshman eligibility and they are looking to add another 20+ with their 2017 recruting class. Something has to give. They only have 85 scholarships to hand out. It's possible OSU tells 5 or 6 2017 kids to greyshirt or look somewhere else, but I think it's more likely OSU keeps the recruting machine rolling by encouraging draft eligible kids to go to the NFL. Granted, in the time between when my first comment was posted and this one, Malik Hooker was quoted as saying "I'm 100% sure I'm coming back next year ... right now," so I could easily be way off base here.

But, 85 is a non-negotiable cap. OSU has a lot more incoming freshmen than they have outgoing seniors. Scholarships have to be freed up somewhere.

I would love to have everyone come back, especailly because the defense could return every starter, but recruiting never stops, and sometimes you have to play for the two in the bush instead of the one in the hand.

crg

November 29th, 2016 at 11:38 AM ^

Question for you, Jon Ross, since you seem to frequent this board often and are one of the more rational OSU fans I have seen on the blogs:

What is your take on the officiating for the game as a whole (not simply the final spot call) and the potential contoversy over the backgrounds of the officiating crew (one example story, but many more out there: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/josh-peter/2016/11/28/bi…)?  Do you personally feel there are legitimate questions/concerns from this game or is this just "sour grapes"?

buckeyejonross

November 29th, 2016 at 5:09 PM ^

The spot was fine, imo. In real time, the ref has to decide if JT broke the plane of the 15 yard line or not. IDK how anyone can definitely say whether way he did or didn't. It's impossible to tell. Literally impossible. That's a 50/50 spot call that is made 200 times a game. If that happned in the first quarter, no one even notices. This whole spot controversy shines a light on how absurd it is we trust 50-year-old men to eyeball a spot from 30 yards away, then run up to the pile, grab the ball, place it on the ground next to their foot where they think the best approximation of what they just eyeballed 10 seconds ago is, and then we measure all that human error to the fucking last centimeter. It’s absurd. It’s not perfect and it never will be perfect.

I also thought the officials let everyone play all game in regards to holding. I'm sure OSU's offensive line held a ton and didn't get called. I'm equally sure Michigan's line held a ton and didn't get called. Both OLines were overmatched. There were bound to be holding calls the officials decided not to call, just for the sake of the game staying watchable. 

In regards to the PIs on OSU's last possession of regulation and Michigan's last OT possesion: You have to call both or you call neither. OSU caught a break. I think Harbaugh is way off base by saying the ball was not catchable and Hill did not commit PI. Hell, the camera cuts to Hill after the play, and he taps his chest and says "my bad." He hooked and turned Samuel. He knew it, the refs knew it, that was textbook PI. Conley did the same thing in OT to Perry, and it was uncalled. Should have ben a PI on both, imo. 

All the stuff about the game being rigged and Shawn L. Martin's crazy manifesto here with the ref butt tap pictures and all that stuff is hilarious to me and if I'm being totally honest this website has been a complete joy to read the last four days. Jake Butt is from Ohio, was he a sleeper agent too? Mike Weber is from Michigan, did he throw the game? No. The refs let everyone play all game, and missed a PI late. That sounds like any other game ever.

I also think if Harbaugh wasn't such an unrepentant dickhead to the officials he'd earn the benefit of the doubt more. But he spazzes out on the sidelines over every call, and he does this and has done this his entire career at every team and level. He's a dick, he shows up the officials, he screams and yells and flings his clipboard and argues every call, sometimes even legit ones (like Cole's facemask, or last year's roughing the punter), and the refs get sick of his shit. They're human. Calling the officials out postgame isn't going to help him any in the future, either.

wolverine1987

November 28th, 2016 at 1:35 PM ^

package of "Pepcat" uselessness. I love Harbaugh but will never understand why the exact same package that Indiana and everyone else styoned the second half of the season stayed exactly the same for the toughest team we play. Sigh.

WindyCityBlue

November 28th, 2016 at 1:35 PM ^

I have never played organized football outside of tackle football with friends when I was a kid, so I was never very profecient in understanding the finer details of the what's going on on the field. 

This game taught me the importance of being elite in the trenches.  I have read about this concept many times and, to a certain extent, I understand it.   But I was able to SEE the importance for the first time.  The difference in proficiency between our OL and DL was so drastic so it was so easy to see.

I now understand why Harbaugh could take as many as 8 OL in this class.  I now understand why he likes the TE and FB as much as he does, and I now understand why he he prefers the NFL QB types over the spread types.  And because of this, I feel good about our future. 

As Brian mentioned, Harbaugh was shackled with Hoke recruits.  Hoke was a good defensive line coach and it showed in his defensive recruiting.  Hoke was not a good coach in any other phase of the game and it showed in his recruiting. 

Next year will be interesting as Harbaugh type recruits start to take over a greater portion of the roster.  They will be young, but I'm expecting a very similar year next year.