Peppers at 10, which seems low.
Nice Threet Article, Good Analysis
he didn't even make the trip to columbus.
Is it true (or do we know if), as the article represents, RichRod left Threet at home for the Ohio State game, "with no real explanation" as to why? That seems pretty heartless given that Threet busted his ass for the team whenever he was on the field, regardless of the results. I'm assuming/hoping that RichRod treats his players better than that...
We know he didn't make the trip because he was injured, but that's about it.
Threet had an injured shoulder and would not even have been able to signal in the plays had he made the trip (something threet did at Minnesota).
It makes sense we he did not make the trip.
This article is a hit job and smacks of bitterness.
That's a perfectly valid reason to let an injured offensive lineman go and not your main quarterback, you're right. More evil MSM who all hate Rich because he doesn't quote Kipling!
Well, maybe it is a perfectly valid reason. Or maybe there was something personal going on with Threet that meant he couldn't/shouldn't come. I don't know. You probably don't either. My problem with this article is that the author of the piece doesn't give us any indication that HE does either, other than using inference and innuendo to come to a conclusion. That is fine, but I don't think it is any different than any other random columnist analyzing some random thing.
Perhaps it would help if you explained what you consider to be good about the analysis.
was arguably the leader of the offensive line (Moosman being the other candidate) and had a ton of experience. I'm sure it was beneficial to have him there to answer questions the other linemen might have/brainstorm/motivate the guys. I don't know if threet would have added as much value to the quarterbacks or team in that role.
You can only travel with a certain amount of guys, thus it doesn't make sense to count an injured QB uncapable of playing against your total number. Also, it's not like the drive from Ann Arbor to Columbus is a long one...he could have easily drove down and been able to stand on the sidelines with his team. If RR told him not to come at all then we have a problem. Otherwise I don't see anything wrong with Threet not traveling.
and want him to stay for a long time, but it is messed up. The article claims that he took Schilling to the OSU game, but not Threet.
I remember in the press conference after the game Rodriguez said something along the lines of "What do you want the kid to do, sit around and be cold?"
I knew going into the OSU game that it was going to be ugly. I did not want to watch but I did. I can't imagine that Threet wanted to watch either. He was a UM fan his whole life and now he is leaving. I suspect he will find a pro style offense to go to and will have good success. Steve I have said this in other posts but I really do wish you all of the best and I hope this is the right decision for you.
Rodriguez has mentioned Threet every time he's talked about the QB situation. He's talked a lot about creating competition at the position...The article implies that Rodriguez played Sheridan over Threet for reasons other than a belief that Sheridan gave U of M a better chance to win. You can argue about that all day long, but Rodriguez didn't start Sheridan over Threet b/c he's mean...Threet was given every opportunity at Michigan to play and seemingly was going to continue to get that opportunity. I don't blame him for transferring, though I would have liked to have seen him stick around, but to suggest that Rodriguez "left him no choice" and that Rodriguez should be blamed for Threet leaving is absurd.
You're totally missing the point. The article is not saying Rodriguez hates Threet, it's saying Threet felt like Rodriguez didn't want him there. There's a serious difference.
I think you're missing the point. Does it make any sense that RR doesn't want Threet on the roster? Think about what you are saying, he wants to run off his starting qb when he is going into a critical year. Why not run off Cone or Sheridan if you are trying to free up space?? There is more to the story than we know because as the 1 thing the article did bring up that is valid is that it doesn't make much sense.
Actually the "article" doesn't say anything at all. It suggests based on absolutely no evidence that not only did Rodriguez force him to transfer but also apparently forced him to liquidate his Michigan memorabilia and his parents to sell their season tickets.
Lets call it "hit job" since that's what it is.
Yes, I forgot. Every article that suggests Rich doesn't walk on water is a hitjob.
But the article that YOU cited as having "good analysis" relies entirely on circumstantial evidence. Why did RR leave Threet behind for the OSU game? According to the author, we don't know. Well, I'm sold. RR clearly left Threet no choice. That's the only logical conclusion.
The article is not a "hitjob" just because it portrays RR negatively (RR made plenty of mistakes himself last year and deserved a fair share of the blame). The article is a hitjob because it cites only circumstantial evidence to reach a concrete conclusion.
I never claimed the article was ABSOLUTE FACT, I said it was good analysis. Not true, just a plausible theory once you brush aside the "Born on the day of the Rose Bowl!" cliches.
Citing RR's decision to leave Threet behind at the OSU game (for unknown reasons), Threet's Michigan background, and RR's "fawning" over the two new QBs (he fawns over all the new recruits; is he supposed to say something negative? The NSD presser is replete with "great this" and "excellent that" for EVERY player), does not add up to good analysis on any level. Sorry.
Plus, the article adds nothing of value to what the average fan already knows: Threet was obviously miscast for the system, RR needs a dual-threat QB to maximize the offense, and either Forcier or Robinson will likely be the starter sooner rather than later. Nothing new there.
I'd feel 95 times better about the legitimacy of this article if there were a quote, or a cited source anywhere to be found.
This article is full of "analysis" that is nothing more than conjecture and generalizations that are either misleading or untrue. For example, RR mentioned Threet by name on signing day as one of the QB competitors. Doesn't really jive with this part of the article, huh:
Rodriguez dropped hints throughout the season that Threet wasn't necessarily in his plans for quarterback in 2009, and lately has barely even mentioned Threet's name when the topic was broached.
If he could site one example of that, I'd give him some credence. Also, it really glosses over the fact the Threet was injured for most of the season.
hit piece plain and simple. I hope the "Good Analysis" part of this post title was tongue-in-cheek.
There is no way Rodriguez purposely dissed his starting QB to get him to leave. While I'm sure RR wants Tate or Denard to be great and seize control he has no guarantees that will happen and we have no depth. RR has always mention ST in discussing the qb's he even mentions Coner about 40% of the time when they mention qb's. This article was a little better than the stupid Freep's who said they showed no faith in ST by recruiting 2 qb's this year......uh we have 1 viable qb on the roster, that's what you do in college you recruit kids each year. I am a little surprised at the lack of rumors on this transfer as it seems pretty bizarre considering his previous decisions and the time of year.
is a pure opinion piece. so take it for what its worth. some of it could be true and some of it could be writer that had nothing else to write about so why not stir the pot with the michigan fans. like chitown said, without a quote how believeable can it be?
people face it we are never ever going to know the real reason why he left. did RR run him out, did he get scared of tate, or was it a non football reason? this one caught us all off guard and it does suck. lets all just move on with life.
This article is conjecture based on assumptions based on fallacies, with a hefty dose of spin.
"Because Threet couldn't have wanted to do this [transfer].
After all, Threet was born Jan. 2, 1989, the day the Wolverines beat Southern Cal in the Rose Bowl, and spent his first day on Earth watching some of the game with his mom - who, of course, is a UM grad."
Wow, that is stunning logic. Anyone who is not convinced is clearly just an RR homer Wal Mart fan.......
But there's more.
"His parents will have to figure out what to do with those season tickets, and there's still the matter of all those UM stocking caps he handed out for Christmas.
It's a tough road to take. Imagine what Threet must've felt about the alternative."
Imagine, indeed. That's about all Joe Vardon does, apparently.
Clearly, watching a particular team play on your "first day on Earth" ensures your undying and unfailing loyalty to that team.
On a related note, my entire family attended the University of Wisconsin-Madison. I grew up cheering for the Badgers and visiting Madison. Therefore, my decision to matriculate at the University of Michigan was exceedingly difficult because (1) I had Badger paraphenalia that I "ha[d] to figure out what to do with" and (2) my parents were UW graduates.
I mean, really?
I know you're in Britain, where non-tabloid journalism is as rare as firewood...
but seriously, how can you think this article is "good analysis"?
Threet wasn't going to play anyway. He would have been nice to have around for depth, but he isn't. If the chart had gotten down to him, it was gonna be a bad year.
What is curious here is that someone has actually convinced Threet that he can play somewhere on a major college level. I'm sure he is a nice kid. And it is nice that, like many of us, he grew up watching UM and idolozing their players. But none of that amounts to a hill of beans when you are talking about quarterbacking an elite program.
Threet is too slow afoot, too slow to react, his arm strength is average at best, and his throwing motion is one of the worst I have ever seen at a major college level. The only worse motions I have ever seen at UM were Steve Smith after his shoulder injury, and Michael Taylor, whose hands were too small to hold the ball effectively.
This does not translate into an NFL QB, or even a BCS QB. I am still thinking he should go home to Adrian College and have a nice life, befitting his nice kid-ness.
Meanwhile, Nick Sheridan is staying, will soon be on the fast track to grad assistant, and will be a great coach for someone in about ten years. This kid has almost no physical talent at all, but seems to have one of the greatest attitudes one could ask for. His attitude and football mind will be an asset to the program.
But we are still in trouble if he has to play very much.
You can think Threet is not good but come on. He shredded Penn St on the road before he got hurt. He ran the ball effectively before he got hurt. Is he great?? No. Was he going to be great?? I don't think so. To think he was never going to see the field and that since Tate is here we'll be fine is stupid. Contrary to what fans think experience does matter and Threet was the only 1 who had it.
You're mentally handicapped. Newsflash: Tate is barely rated higher than Threet.
Uh--but Tate is an entirely different style of QB than Threet. Putting a 5* fullback at your starting tailback slot is probably not better than putting in a 4* speedster.
I think Threet definitely would have played this year, and maybe even started, but there's no denying that he is NOT a good fit for the offense, and Tate has a much more suited skill set for it.
Did you read the post I replied to? It amounted to "Threet sucks"
I agree with the original poster. When Stafford was a true freshman, he struggled, but you could see that he had the TOOLS to develop into a top-notch QB. Threet's mechanics (for a guy with basically two years under his belt) were terrible, his arm strength was average, and he struggled to even throw a spiral. Now, Threet is not Stafford, obviously. But the principle remains.
You can argue that Threet was serviceable based on his overall numbers and the system he played in, but I cannot understand why people think so highly of him.
Threet's numbers as a freshman were roughly equivalent to Matt Stafford's. People need to realize that Chad Henne was an exception to a pretty strong rule - freshman QB's don't play well.
This article is another dig on RR. I am sick of these articles. It is a "feel good" piece that really doesn't make anyone feel good.
Lets try and find the forest through the trees here folks. If we want to win and establish ourselves again as a dominant force, we need to take these steps. A hometown, experienced QB leaving SUCKS, but it is merely a large growing pain. I wish he would stay too, and for the reasons stated in this article...his family's roots to UofM, his effort last year, etc. But he too can look in the mirror and make a decision for himself on his future. If he really, really loved this place he would stick around and help the future QB's while most likely getting some pt himself. All while nurturing the program back to dominance. Now that would be something to brag about to your grandkids.
To me, this article was just another "Michigan/RR hating Media God" piece.
RR leaving him behind for the OSU game because he doesn't value him.....C'mon.
Thanks Steve for what you did and I wish you nothing but the best in the future.
"Throw in the unabashed fawning over UM's two quarterback recruits - Tate Forcier and Denard Robinson - and it suddenly becomes clear what Threet saw in store for himself."
IMO is the only thing in the article that can be qualified as a hit piece or isn't backed up by either a fact or circumstantial evidence. The writer said up font that he didn't think RR either encouraged him to leave or drove him off. And even this quote supplied is true, if the source is applied to we fans and not RR himself.
It's true we need QB's. It's true that it's legit to recruit as many as possible without worrying about how a current player feels.
But, and I emphasize the but, if RR took the offer from Threet without trying to make him stay, or in any way subtly encouraged him, (those that have people work for them know there are many ways to do this) it's incredibly short sighted of him. This article doesn't prove anything so there's no way to know. But, there are many many examples of players that are out still being taken to away games, and at the time I didn't understand it and still don't, for especially QB's and team leaders. That move raises my eyebrows a bit.
This article is just another silly potshot at whipping boy Rod.
Unfortunately until he starts winning this is the MSM storyline and they're sticking to it.
Tater. Threet was a freshman last year in a system that was a poor fit. If he goes 1-AA which he should, he will have three years to play in a system more suited to his talents. To suggest that he has no pro possibilities based upon one injury riddled season in a system that was a poor fit, is at best sour grapes and at worst, just a mean spirited pot shot at a guy for leaving.
Threet could not have predicted that the cronyish Lloyd Carr would be replaced by a guy who ran an entirely different system. This on balance is probably a very good business decision by Threet and needs not be about hurt feelings.
do agree with everything else.
Has it been brought up that Threet may have been left behind due to his lack of assertive leadership?
This is something that was brought up throughout the season. Threet is a quiet, contemplative type, who spent most of his time on the sidelines concentrating on the game at hand (when not signaling plays). Which is great if he is playing in the game, but if you are bringing someone along who isn't going to see the field, his demeanor isn't bringing much to the table. Perhaps Schilling is a more outspoken and fire-em-up type; perhaps we needed leadership represented more for OL (to this end, maybe RR saw our OL performance against OSU last year).
Whatever the case, there are plenty of alternative hypotheses to challenge the assumptions of Vardon, author of this brilliantly (scoff) constructed argument. It is, as Brodie says, "plausible" ... but anything is plausible, given the right assumptions.
From all accounts -- current player, the media, and our own esteemed TomVH -- Tate has the "swagger" and natural leadership that will enable him to succeed earlier than some QBs. Leadership cannot be underestimated; last year the offense especially was devoid of any vocal/outspoken leaders, and I never got the impression that Threet had "it."
I think that Tate is thrilled at the prospect of starting as a true freshman, and I bet that he welcomes the challenge and the accompanying opportunity. He does not seem to be the deer-in-the-headlights type, which will serve him well.
Is this speculation? Yup, it sure is. But apparently, that counts as "journalism" in some places. You decide.
This could be a syndicated column!
Not that our hometown rag (Ann Arbor News) is any better of a news source, but I SURE as HELL am not gonna give one iota of credence to an article about the Wolverines that comes out of OHIO.
That's really really stupid. Don't be such a bag.
along the lines of "Worst State Ever." Geez. Chill.
Why would I go and do that? That is such a stupid question. What are you, stupid? That is so stupid.
Including the initial info about RichRod meeting Bill Martin in Toledo.
is actually usually pretty pro-RR, unlike the Detroit papers.
I didn't realize that The Toledo Blade broke the RR, Martin meeting. That said, everyone in Toledo knows The Blade's sports section sucks dong, and has sucked dong for decades. Seriously, it's horrible.
But they were all over the business transactions surrounding UM sports, including lawsuits and buyouts.
No doubt about it Baleedat. When Dave "Hack"enberg is the face of your sports section, it's bad...Matt Markey is the only decent writer in the entire sports department.
I live in Toledo and this guy is just a plain Michigan hater. I have called him out on it many times and surprisingly enough, he actually responds to my e-mails. He claims that he is not a Buckeye fan, nor a Michigan hater, but he takes every chance to get in a cheap shot at UM and Rich Rod. He writes nothing when Worthington was arrested for DUI but he was the first person in line to call out Grady on his incident. Nothing on Boone either. He also has a problem citing where he gets any of his information.
Did you ever stop to consider the fact that Ann Arbor is about 45 minutes from Toledo and Columbus is about 2 1/2 hours? What do you think more of his audience cares more about?
Well, it is the Ohio State University, representing the state of Ohio. I'm sure there are plenty of people in Traverse City who prefer Michigan over Michigan State, despite the fact that East Lansing is closer. . .
Well yes, of course. But you have to look at this logically... are there more MSU fans there or Michigan fans? The answer is probably the former. Toledo isn't as divided as people like to say, the real division starts closer to Bowling Green.
I honestly have no idea which has more fans. I have no idea why either would have more fans. Well, I guess I would imagine Michigan would, because they're more successful.
Toledo, OH and Monroe, MI are both very much divided, as well as the surrounding rural areas.
Brodie, your style is so much like this piece of "journalism" you've provided... speculation, assumptions, based on crude facts. You've been spending too much time reading UK tabloids! Hey, what is J.K. Rowling up to these days?
Dude, if you think Monroe is divided then you've never been to Perrysburg. That's like saying Detroit is pretty evenly divided.
I live in Perrysburg and went to High School here. There are probably more OSU fans but it's about as close to 50-50 as you'll get. I think Toledo is more like 60/40 (maybe 2/3rds) OSU though. Sound about right Chewer?
Well it seems to be more like 90-10 since OSU has been winning, but 60/40 sounds about right. 10 years ago, it seemed like it was 90-10 in favor of Michigan, but now everyone is a Buckeye fan, Wal-Mart jerseys and all. I will say, you have a better chance finding a Michigan fan in Toledo than you do, an OSU fan in Monroe. I coach in Monroe and live in Toledo, no comparison. Once you cross that border, going North, it's Michigan Territory. Not even close. I grew up right on the line, in Michigan, and I can only think of about 3 families that were Buckeye fans in my town. The rest were UM and MSU fans.
I'd say Toledo is a massive bandwagon town and acts as such in every thing. Obviously living there you have a different perspective but my experience has always been that they're an extension of Michigan when it pays to be and true blue Ohioans when it doesn't.
Yeah, that's about right. It's not that bad when it comes to the rivalry, because 95% of the people around here that call themselves fans, don't know what the fuck they're talking about. I actually had to convince a "Buckeye fan" that Troy Smith's name wasn't "Todd Smith". I mean come on...
the author tells us he's looking at the tea leaves as he understands them and comes up with reasonable conjectures.