It is RR's job to get them to buy in. Of course 19 year olds are going to be stupid. RR is paid to motivate them.
The New Phonebooks Will Save Us
If this was an editorial cartoon, Steve Martin would have "Michigan" written all over him and the phonebooks would say "alumni." Also it would be terrible.
You know, my immediate reaction to this AnnArbor.com headline…
Former receiver Braylon Edwards impressed by one Michigan coach, down on another following busy Friday
…was "great, more people talking crap about Rodriguez." Turns out Edwards was just talking crap about Mike Hart. Well played, Bigelow. It's good to know that we've stopped taking hardly veiled shots at Rodriguez and are ready to move on—
“Just more about the tradition,” Edwards said of Hoke’s message. “And he appreciates the alums, and he definitely wants to get us involved and do everything we can to educate the players who play there now.
“Because it’s sad to say, a lot of them don’t know the tradition at Michigan. Back in the day, players knew the former players. They knew the countdowns, the titles, Hail to the Victors. I’m sure if you ask some of the kids on the team now, I guarantee there’s a couple of kids that don’t know all of the words in full.”
Son of a bitch. People are talking crap about Rodriguez not respecting Michigan's tradition at the alumni flag football game he started. In related news, this year's Tunnel Of Victors will feature a special version of the MGoBlue banner that says "F.U. RICHROD."
Meanwhile… Braylon Edwards. He should probably stop talking and doing things. When you punch some dude or say your DUI for blowing twice the legal limit was because of tinted windows or that Cleveland "has nothing" while you have a "New York-type essence" or that your teammates quit and the starting quarterback should be different and your OC is bad or that people on the football team don't know the fight song, that doesn't reflect well on yourself or "Lloyd Carr's" University of Michigan. It's one thing to take swipes at current players who might not be great at football collectively. It's another when they're awesome dudes and you're someone people euphemistically dub "controversial" or "outspoken." Because bitching about Charlie Frye makes you Malcolm X.
Mike Hart also said some things about how Rodriguez didn't value the tradition but prefaced that with a statement about how he always felt welcome back; Breaston dismissed the "he wasn't accepted" bit and focuses on winning games; meanwhile, Ron Bellamy:
“We are ecstatic,” Bellamy said. “We know it’s a process. You can’t build up the program in a year or two. You have to give him a chance to bring his guys in the right way and play football in this conference the way it is supposed to be played.”
Edwards before last year:
"He has to make it work," Edwards said. "If he can't -- me being one of the alumni guys -- I want someone that can make it work. We've been patient. If it doesn't go right this year, we'll have to find a guy that can make it work with that winged helmet."
Since Michigan's tradition quickly became "screw you, Rich Rodriguez," I can't imagine why there was a disconnect there.
Who cares? We just watched a bunch of guys who essentially never beat OSU and/or quit en masse once they didn't like the head coach blame Rodriguez for the program's decline. Yeah, it declined. Yeah, Rodriguez had a lot to do with it. So did they. Jim Brandstatter of all people:
"He had a lot of strikes against him when he walked in the door and that was sad," Brandstatter said.
Whatever Rodriguez's failings were they were amplified by a culture that immediately rejected him. There was a rebellion the seniors on this year's team are pointing to as a Bad Idea. Someone sold him out to the Free Press. He was treated like garbage at alumni outings.
Meanwhile, the complainers were the reason Michigan had to go outside the family. The Great Tradition of Michigan had recently devolved into a 1-6 record against OSU and The Horror. The Great Tradition had produced zero plausible head coaching candidates to continue it. The Tradition is blaming it all on a scapegoat instead of manning up and looking in the mirror. They are collectively Edwards blaming his 0.16 BAC on tinted windows.
That's not a good way to run anything. Without a serious analysis of what you did wrong other than "hire that outsider," with how your culture is messed up, you become Notre Dame. Some guys were willing to be active with the program over the last few years and plenty more didn't sell it out publicly; the decision not to speaks to the player, not Rodriguez.
Carr's former players aren't the program. A subset of them think it's about them, but it's about Denard and Molk and Martin and Kovacs, the ones who stayed and worked hard and were emphatically not champions thanks in some small part to people like Edwards. Van Bergen:
"You know, it's just kind of unsettling that there's … it's great that they're back, but it's kind of, where have they been the last two or three years?" Van Bergen said. "We've still been wearing the same helmets since they were here."
Despite what they think, the alumni are just fans now. It's hard to imagine a big chunk weren't the loathsome sort glorying in a season-ending blowout.
So you'll have to excuse the rest of us who stood in those stands during the Fandom Endurance III game and are terribly sad about how the last three years worked out: we've got a phonebook to care about instead of Braylon Edwards's glorious return to the program.
[ROTE DISCLAIMER THAT WILL BE IGNORED: This is not a defense of Rich Rodriguez. Rodriguez should have been fired. It is not a criticism of Brady Hoke. I wrote a big long post about how Hoke's three non-MAC coordinator hires constitute a real reason for optimism. Early indications are this staff is taking advantage of the opportunities placed before them in this year's recruiting class, and with what's going on at OSU the hypothetical ceiling on the program could blow off.
I look forward to this being interpreted as an attack on Hoke in the comments. Bring it, reading comprehension failures of America.]
"It is far, far more likely that they did not [have a good reason], since we see this from time to time with new coaches--and their "rebellion" consisted of not buying into the program and therefore not giving full effort"
That's just you asserting that your hypothesis is likely. I suppose it may be the case that we see this from time to time with new coaches, but you haven't even suggested a single example. Moreover, the evidence you need is not merely (1) that from time to time players "rebel" against a new coach, but (2) that from time time to time players rebel against a new coach FOR NO REASON.
You haven't given any evidence of (1), and you're nowhere close to (2). All you have is an inference based on the absence of evidence that RR did nothing wrong. It's possible that this inference is correct, but you should note that it implies that a large portion of the team was engaged in concerted action for no reason. You can just say "oh you know those kids, they're crazy!" but that's just a stereotype. They may do some things for no reason, but I don't see any evidence to justify supposing that they all engaged in deliberate and concerted action just on a whim. You don't see any such evidence either, but you'll cling the presumption that RR is gee-golly-good guy.
Triple post ftw
I said I had some, based upon what we've seen from past coaching changes and player comments, but that you had none. Which is and was true. In the complete absence of any evidence, you assume that RR was somehow at fault for the players not buying in. Fair enough. But with some evidence, I assume that the players were at fault. I'm much more confident in having some evidence than you should be in having none.
But even if you have reasons to favor (1), it's simply a load of bullshit to act like those of us who stood in the stands in the rain are somehow better fans than people who actually, you know, practiced and played for the team, who give substantial sums of money to the program. As somone below mentioned, this is classic "my fan-dick is bigger than yours" because I stand and yell AS LOUD AS I CAN rhetoric.
That line from Brian bothered me too. I think a former player can have some room to talk, and Brian's comment reeks of "who are YOU to say such things?" when the answer to that is he's the guy whose ability to jump really high and catch things caused Michigan to beat State in 2004, and this made my life very much better for that year and since.
The problem with Braylon's comments is that they're disingenuous, but he has definitely earned the micropohone.
This shit makes me shake my head wistfully and wish Bo could have stayed amongst us bit longer. Would he have provided some insight into the Great Coaching Search of '07 and made it less of a circus? Who knows. One thing is for certain; he would have been doing some dong punching and ho card pulling of certain members of the fan/alumni base. You don't become ashamed of, abandon, or withhold donations to the university or program because of some losing seasons, or because you don't like the coach. That's a bitch move. And to think that some of these people refer to themselves as Michigan Men (despite their off the field behavior) is repulsive. People look to The Horror, or even Dec 17 2007 as a day that lived in Michigan infamy, but I truly believe that it was Nov 17 2006. To say that that man the the glue that held this thing together would be the understatement of the century.
It sure seems that the wheels came off after the Old Man died......
Wow...why is there sooo many loyalists to Rich Rod? He was the worst head coach in Michigan history ,screwed up traditions, changed the culture ,the type of players we brought in,the # 1 jersey,saying "the game" was just another game, getting us in trouble with the ncaa for the first time in our storied proud tradition,ect. ect. I can go on and on but the bottom line is the negatives outweigh the positives. Then he didn't WIN. I mean come on Brian and other Rich Rod supporters...Get Off his SACK please!!! The only thing you should praise RR for is delivering us Shoelace. That's it! Other than that be glad that saga and bs is over with and now we can get back to this real shit...Go Blue and more importantly let's go HOKE!
He is all 31 of them.
I want ice cream now
You're a dumbass. He is not defending RR you ignorant twit. Brian is calling out fairweather alumni.
Another member of that "special" group. RCFOA.
It's pretty clearly a defense of RIch Rod, regardless of what the disclaimer says:
Whatever Rodriguez's failings were they were amplified by a culture that immediately rejected him.
Since Michigan's tradition quickly became "screw you, Rich Rodriguez," I can't imagine why there was a disconnect there.
Whatever Rodriguez's failings were they were amplified by a culture that immediately rejected him.
See in those boxes I see a person admitting that RR had failings that were the reasons for his firing, but the alumni and other outside forces amplified them beyond what any other coach would have had.
That makes total sense. RR deserved to be fired. He did not deserve to have every little thing he did wrong amplified because of some pouting former player goes to the press to bitch about how he doesnt get it and they dont feel welcome. Judge him for what he actually did wrong:
Worst defense in Michigan history
0-6 against OSU and MSU
Those are legitimate reasons to judge him. Braylon making an issue out of the jersey is purely childish bullshit. The former players not giving RR a chance because he was an outsider and someone they were not familiar with is bullshit. Anything other than RR's actual performance should be off limits to judgment.
I'm just calling a spade a spade, not backing Braylon or any of his nonsense. When one deflects blame onto the alumni for part of Rich Rod's public perception, that's a defense. I'm not saying it's not correct, I think it is and they are more than a little to blame.
You're a moron....and probably a troll. But definately a moron.
If you look about 4 inches on the screen you'll see that Brian wrote -- this is not a defense of RichRod. Subtle I know.
Thank you. Is reading that hard these days?
of Brians "Reading Comprehension comment".
Thanks for fufilling the prophecy!
I'm recalling the day when Braylon and the University announced he was endowing the scholarship (which is STILL given each year, whether or not the #1 jersey is worn), and hearing unadulterated praise being heaped upon him for giving back to his alma mater. When it was announced, there was a really great event with Anthony Carter, everyone smiled and clapped and the fanbase was pleased.
And I'm wondering what has changed in regards to that scholarship.
Braylon has no veto power over it, he's been on the record saying it's the coach's decision to give it out, and, as I said earlier, it's given out regardless of whether or not someone is wearing #1. The only time it has ever been an issue was when RR gave it out to a defensive player, something I'm still confused about, because it seems to me that should never have gotten past Jon Falk to begin with.
So I guess I'm at a loss as to why the scholarship endowment is now being used as a shot against Braylon. Take shots at him for anything else, he's definitely earned some. But why is the scholarship part of the discussion?
As far as I'm concerned, if you're so angry about Braylon endowing the #1 scholarship, feel free to step up to the plate and endow one yourself.
Here is reason number 12b why Braylon Edwards is a jerk.
That "Number 1" kerfuffle with Rich Rodriguez could have been handled with a phone call. Braylon could have gotten Stan to make the call for him; Stan does that a lot these days. And without serving up a tasty, stupid, irrelevant story as to how 'Rich Rodriguez just doesn't get Michigan tradition' to the press. To needlessly, and probably falsely, paint Rodriguez as a heartless monster, and Braylon as a victim. (Braylon seems to have a whole lot of Chris Webber-victimization in him.)
No has ever complained about the Braylon Edwards Foundation's endowment of a football scholarship, because endowing the scholarship was a laudable thing.
And in fact, nobody really should complain too loudly that Braylon has too much interference in football operations because I don't believe that there is any formal legal condition that limits a Head Coach's handling of players on the Michigan football team. I don't really think that Braylon has any formal legal power over assignment of jersey numbers.
Braylon might well have an informal understanding with the Athletic Department about "his" scholarship, and a jersey number. And even that is okay. Informal understandings are fine. Between gentlemen. Like the handshake between Bo Schembechler and Don Canham.
What people like me complain about is that Braylon clearly and unequivocally acted like a petulant child when it seemed to him that a defensive back might be given the Number 1 jersey. And instead of a phone call to Falk, or Madej, or Martin, or Joe Parker, or Rodriguez, or Carr (Carr -- God bless him. There's at least one guy who could, for a short time, impose some civilized discipline on Braylon), Braylon went to the press. Where Braylon has had soooooo much success in explaining himself in recent years.
Yes, Bando. Braylon Edwards was a brilliant pass-catcher at Michigan. Yay. Who endowed a scholarship. Kudos!
But who now has shown himself, repeatedly, to be an off-the-field prick. No mistakes; no misunderstandings, no errors, no miscommunication. Those were all crappy excuses. Braylon's a prick. Which he is allowed to do if he wants to. It's just something I hope no other Michigan football player aspires to.
Well, someone took that pretty seriously.
I know you have an axe to grind with Braylon, but seriously, man, get over it.
It's a little fucked up that a lot of people on this board forget that Michigan Football is the football program of the University of Michigan, and not the other way around.
Brian, like many of us, is an alum. It is well within his right to call out football players for not representing our university well, and for generally behaving like children. They may be football players, but they are first and foremost Wolverines.
It just sucks.
I liked RR; I like Hoke and I think that he's proving more and more that he's going to turn out a great hire. Yeah, everyone needs to move on.
But hell. Forget the coaches for a second. You have all these people who sat through that Northwestern Game, or the people that wore their M around town knowing that they were gonna catch shit from the State fans and the OSU fans and the freaking Illinois fans, and they all stayed. No matter how awful and ridiculous it was, they stayed because they're loyal and proud and that's what Michigan men are supposed to do.
Now here we are - we morons that love Michigan because we cannot help ourselves - and the awfulness is gone because the perception has changed and suddenly all these people are flocking back. How can we not look at all these people who deserted Michigan when things got tough and ask them 'Where the hell were you?'
And it's just worse that we're talking about some of the former players. Because for us fans, they're not just like us. They are supposed to be people that know more than anyone else how special Michigan is, and if some of them can just turn their backs then what the hell is the point anyway?
Anyway, whatever. A few months from now, it'll be football again and we can worry about something else then. I'm just cranky.
Thank you. That is exactly how I feel. It doesn't matter who the coach is or how things are going, if you truly are a fan and love the team, you'll still support and cheer for them as much as ever through the bad times. Sure, it's perfectly fine to think that changes needed to be made, but you don't desert the team. What you said about the players and how they should be the ones that know more than anyone how special Michigan is is what really disheartens me. They have every right to be disappointed in the last three years and how things have gone, but they are the absolute last people that should have not supported their team and the school that they gave so much to.
If we're not careful, we're gonna be the posterboys for the Offseason TWIS award. We should jointly be laughing at all the tOSU/Tress double speak. The ship is getting turned around and the god damn plan is not going to crash into the mountain. Lets save the he said/she said for Jerry Springer reruns and tOSU explanations of what St. Jim did or did not do.
The 406 (now 425 and counting) people who wrote on this topic, or the guy that says it is "tired?"
Read new post " A modest proposal" on the board.
You're just adding to it...
Ever consider that they meant "back" as in the positive atmosphere surrounding the program? To those of us who support the program through thick and thin, Michigan was never "gone" in the sense you are implying. Every program has down periods, so don't bother with the "UNACCEPTABLE!!" losing seasons nonsense.
If you support the school as long as the team wins, that isn't unconditional support. It's one thing to criticize a coach's decisions. It's another to impugn his character or to perpetuate falsehoods because you want to get your way and get the coach fired. It is unfortunate that there were former players who did this and fans who continue to stomp on RR's grave b/c they didn't like him or losing. That's not support. That's hopping off the bandwagon and lobbing molotov cocktails at your school. It's dishonorable and it's not what Michigan is about to me as a former alum and fan. Michigan also isn't about proclaiming we are above everyone else just because. That is arrogance, or it at least seems a lot like it. I'd rather we play with class and humility, win or lose. Our winning before RR showed up created an enormous sense of entitlement that is just as big a reason for Michigan's collapse starting in 2008 as anything else.
Or maybe they are just trying to be positive about the new guys and no ndermine the team like some of the veterans did when RR came in.
Nope. In Dahblue's next post, he will be pointing to all the players who decided to stay on the team and then criticize the coach they decided to stay for. It is the smartest thing they could possibly do.
why this better treatment of Hoke from former players and media infuriates Brian (and others) so much? The argument that they are passionate fans is not a valid defense. it has to be something deeper seeded that would only come out during therapy.
Where's that reader comprehension failure award?
You do not have to think RR was the best choice for Michigan to be a true fan (hint, hint, Hokemaniacs).
But if you are a former player who withheld support for the program, openly disparaged the program in public, and sowed controversy through intentional acts, all because you didn't like RR personally or disrespected his background (or hell, even if you just thought he was a lousy couch), then you played a role, however small, in the failure of RR and the inability of current Michigan players to win, and therefore you damaged the program.
At no point will it be considered "dangerous" to think an establish coach with a strong record could be a good coach at UM. Stop being inflammatory for it's sake alone.
gave me the exciting, dynamic, score on any play, type of offense I've always wanted to see out of Michigan football. For three straight years, my eyes were glued to the TV for every play, even when we were down big to OSU, Wisconsin, PSU, or whoever else. Good or bad, there was always something really interesting to talk or debate about. The RR era easily gave me my top three or four favorite offensive Michigan plays of all time. IME, RR was good for Michigan football. I had a feeling inside that the last OSU loss was the straw that broke the camel's back. Of course, the loss to OSU hurt, but knowing that the RR era was over hurt much more.
There are Rodriguez fans who value the aesthetics of his offense more than the results on the field.
To me, there sure were some exciting plays in the Rich Rod era. The first half of last year, I was pinching myself pretty regularly. But there were also games against Ohio State where the Buckeyes couldn't even be bothered to hate us we were so fucking pathetic.
I hear ya.
Sidney, is that you?
take some Pepto.
What can I say, I liked our offense under RR. I didn't like our defense and I didn't like losing. I want something similar to that offense and a better defense. Does that cause you to hurl?
The article is a biting and intelligent criticism of former players.
The principle at work here with the former players is probably the very same one at work with the garden variety fan (not the more serious fans from this blog). The principle is that Rodriguez' era is associated with failure because of the losing. Therefore, everything about RR becomes distorted to the negative. As a counterbalance, the Carr era or something like it, is going to tend to be more warmly received now than in 2008. Rodriguez was a stand up guy who didn't win enough. So he's an easy mark for these guys. They should just pipe down and support the new direction without taking shots at the old.
Brian makes a fabulous point that the ex-players who now seem to be jockeying for a microphone to bbq Rodriguez, and a seat at the Hoke table, should also accountable for their treatment of Rodriguez and his players during his run. He makes an even better point that the lackluster play from a lot of these guys was part of the decline which they view negatively.
These guys were free all along to have their own opinions, and they are free to cry freedom now that they have one of their own in charge. And guys like Brian are free and justified for calling bullshit when they do. That's part of being an ex-player who makes a big deal out of being an ex-player.
It has more perks and pitfalls then just being out here among the fans.
Wow I just agreed with NateVolk...feels weird. If you seriously disagree with Brian on this take a look at one guy who wanted Rodriguez gone for a really long time before it happened and see how his opinion is in lockstep with a guy who supported Rodriguez being the coach till the end(me or Brian in this case).
Since Mike Hart was one of the players singled out, does that mean he is one of the players who's lackluster play was part of the decline? While I understand the opinions being expressed about the actions of some specific ex-players have said, taking bigger shots at larger groups of players is what has me frustrated the most about this string of posts. I suspect that many of those lackluster players put more of there hearts and souls into the team than all the uber fans on this site
It really wasn't the "lackluster play" of those players that led to 15-22. Those players won a lot of games while they were at Michigan. The only factor - though certainly a big one - that links Carr's tenure to Rodriguez's failure is recruiting, not the level of play provided by Braylon et al.