Is The NCAA Dumber Than A Fourth Grader?
Let's deploy the fourth-grader test on Ohio State's response to the NCAA:
The institution is very surprised and disappointed by the lack of action in this matter by then Head Football Coach Jim Tressel. His behavior in this situation is out of character for him, as he has been a man of integrity and high moral standards since his hiring as the head football coach in 2001. His lack of action in this matter appears to have been the result of indecisiveness regarding the appropriate actions to take in this specific situation in which he was placed, as opposed to a blatant disregard of NCAA legislation. … The institution will not excuse such behavior. As a result, the institution has imposed significant corrective and punitive actions upon itself and sought and received the resignation of Tressel.
This is why, possessing every scrap of information about Tressel they have today, they fiercely suspended him for two games against MAC schools, and then suspended him for five games, before finally accepting his resignation, oops wait it's actually a retirement and that 250k you owe us… yeah, nevermind. Truly the behavior of Jim Tressel was a heinous deed the university abhors. It is clear that the Ohio State University took one look at Jim Tressel's actions and said "this will not stand." We are embarrassed.
What say you, fourth graders?
Hmm. The fourth-graders do not seem to buy it.
Fourth graders, what do you think about the assertion that Jim Tressel's "indecisiveness" led him to email a shady "mentor" about this a dozen times, but not compliance? Or the NCAA any of the three subsequent times he had an opportunity to say "oh, right, that whole thing about tattoos some guy I know personally who has helped us out before and I spent large parts of my summer emailing people who were not my compliance department about… yeah, that"? Fourth graders, do you believe Jim Tressel is an indecisive person?
No. No you do not.
The danger is that the NCAA might buy it, though, isn't it? If the NCAA buys that the problem is limited to Tressel because nine Buckeyes ticketed in loaner cars and reports that are unconfirmed but obvious from a half-dozen Buckeyes about Hookups on Tats and other things, and they aren't incensed by being duped about the Sugar Bowl, and they aren't incensed by OSU's actions against a "very successful coach in a very popular sport in a very short period of time" then they could get away with violating the most important aspect of NCAA enforcement: you are expected to police yourself.
So, NCAA: are you dumber than a fourth grader?
This is an important question to answer. Here's hoping the answer is "no," because an organization that reacts to the things Jim Tressel did in the way Ohio State did and then has the audacity to say something like this if the NCAA dares add punishment to what can't even be described as a wrist-slap…
"I'll be shocked and disappointed and on the offensive," Smith said. "Unless something new arises from where we are today, it'll be behavior (from me) you haven't witnessed."*
…you're being called out. Ohio State is daring you. They are double-dog daring you. Either send Gene Smith on the warpath and the unemployment line or establish defiant see-no-evil as the new baseline for enforcement.
*[What would that be? Contrition? A lack of wholesale delusion? The vague impression of competency.]
Excessively Defensive Section
Twitter was overrun with Buckeyes in various states of glee, denial, and smack-talking yesterday, with much of it directed at Michigan fans for their various states of butthurt, disbelief, and cynicism. These emotions are not limited to Michigan fans. It's hard to find someone who's not mocking Ohio State in the aftermath.
TSN's Dave Curtis:
As this story evolves, it’s tougher to conceive of Tressel as the only evil in that football program or athletic department. If he’s not, and the NCAA finds out, the Buckeyes will face USC-style sanctions. If he was, then Ohio State is guilty of failing to monitor its coach, and lacking institutional control by letting Tressel gain so much power.
Some concession, some spreading of the problem behind the head coach, would have marked a small first step in helping the Buckeyes win back the public. It would have helped with the NCAA, too.
The public’s only recourse is ranting and complaining. NCAA officials can punish to the point of paralyzing the program for a while. And come the fall, that’s exactly what they will do.
ESPN's Brian Bennett:
I can envision the following conversation during Ohio State's hearing before the NCAA Committee on Infractions next month.
"So, you vacated your wins from 2010?" an infractions committee member says.
"Yes," Ohio State president E. Gordon Gee says. "It was the least we could do."
"You're right," the committee member responds. "It was technically the least you could possibly do."
Tom Fornelli and Jerry Hinnen, Notre Dame and Auburn fans respectively:
Fornelli: Ohio State just really doesn't seem to get it, or they're in a deep state of denial. The NCAA isn't going to see that the school has vacated it's wins from last season and move on. There will be scholarships lost, and there will be a postseason bowl ban for a year or two. It's not fair to the players on the team or whichever coach eventually takes over for Tressel, but unfortunately for Ohio State, the NCAA knows that you can't just erase the past and fix things.
Hinnen: We're assuming they do. Since we're discussing the NCAA's Committee on Infractions here, there's no way to know exactly what they're going to do until they do it. Precedents mean nothing and logic is frequently tossed aside like so many babies in so much bathwater.
But if the COI ever wants to be taken seriously, rubber-stamping OSU's self-imposed "punishment" and giving the Buckeyes a pat on the head just can't be an option. Without subpoena power, the only thing standing between the NCAA and utter investigative helplessness is honesty and cooperation from those involved. What it got instead from from OSU was Tressel lying through his teeth with Gee and Smith nodding genially at his side. The NCAA tried to be lenient with the Buckeyes once already--and was repaid with a sham of a Sugar Bowl and a carton's worth of egg on its face for its troubles.
The Cleveland Plain-Dealer's Bud Shaw only speaks in one-sentence paragraphs:
The question is whether it's doing so as a strategy or out of delusion. Delusion is the leader in the clubhouse.
The Buckeyes started out looking nonchalant in all this, remember. Now, they just look arrogant.
Early on, they opened themselves to charges that their internal investigation amounted to, "Nothing to see here, move along."
This is an administration that initially wrist-slapped Tressel with a two-game ban, then increased it to five, then sought his resignation and now is fitting him for a pillory for display before the NCAA.
The designated media contrarian—there's always one—is Stewart Mandel, who argues that the media firestorm in the aftermath of the NCAA's allegations hasn't materially affected the charges, which the school argues are limited to Tressel. I'd think the head coach lying to keep six players eligible for an entire season obviously deserves a bowl ban and scholarship pain even when you don't account for OSU's persistently nose-thumbing response.
We did, USC gave themselves a scholarship reduction and postseason ban, Pepperdine did for some non-revenue sports. There are other examples out there and OSU should have probably followed suit.
They're still in a trick bag - do too much, and the fan base freaks. Go too light, and risk even more sanctions anyway. If it were me, I'd do nothing and go through the motions of the NCAA trial and see where the chips fall. I don't really see the self-sacrifice as a smart choice, but - just my .02.
Then yes, OSU obviously was way too light in self-imposed sanctions. But I just think with each case being different and having it's own factors - it's hard to really asess the proper punishment - I feel this point is validated by the fact the nobody really knows what's going to happen in August and after. If all the analysts were saying "well, OSU is definetly going to get X" because they did "this", then I can see self-imposed sanctions as a way to mitigate the damage. But, it's all postulation at this point as to what the ramifications are going to be - just seems to me to make more sense to give no self-imposed sanctions, and just see what happens.
But I see what you're saying.
Big Blue in your name AND using O$U? It makes my eyes bleed.
and enjoy the smile of Phillip Rivers.
Maybe I should have thought of something really original for my profile name.. like.. "Lets_Go_Blue". Don't hate on me man... busting my balls and I just got here. Sheesh.
Just gentle ribbing. It happens to errbody.
That Gene Smith has more pull within the NCAA than we planned for, and this may already be a handshake deal behind closed doors.
I better be dead wrong, because that response was the most arrogant piece of shit I have ever read. I live in Cleveland, and even local radio hosts like Kenny Roda have been saying this response is a joke, and Roda is a moron.
The response makes that ridiculous press conference look even worse than it already did, which I thought was impossible.
If Smith and the NCAA have a deal then he is acting mighty strangley publicly threatening his partners. Not saying you're wrong. Gene Smith is clearly not as sharp as he needs to be. Just sayin' if I have a deal that gets me to where I need to be it's time to shut up until the package is delivered.
If Smith and the NCAA have a deal then Michigan needs to get out of the NCAA. There should be no dealings outside the recorded and public hearings and documents; that would just be absurd.
Little extreme? Maybe?
If the NCAA isn't going to follow its own processes, nobody else should either, IMO.
because there is no doubt that Kenny Roda is, in fact, a moron. When he first started out he wasn't so bad (even though he was a Steelers fan) but then all of a sudden OSU got on their hot streak under Tressel and he was one of the worst OSU homers anywhere, even though he is from Pittsburgh and went to BW. I cannot stand him
Too bad they are screwing Reghi by making him share the mike with Roda. Reg is from the D and he is a little more objective when it comes to these things
I have to think there are at least a couple of folks at the NCAA who a) are embarraessed by the way the triumverate of Smith and Gee and their former boss Tressel played them before the Sugar Bowl b) know the sports world is watching pretty closely after the bizzarre and public shoulder shrug in response to the all-south bidding war for Cam Newton, and c)realize that Gee and Smith have publcly forfeited all credibiilty. OSU has become an easy mark for the NCAA to use to build some of their own credibility and there is damn little in the way of consequences(in spite of Gene's bold threat).
The way I see it OSU is lucky if the NCAA sticks with the original allegations and just adds moderately to OSU's self penalties. Alternatively, Smith's threat may have pissed a couple of people off and the NCAA will revisit any of several pretty firm rumors about what has been going on down there, add to the allegations, and punish appropriately.
Lastly, a further deterioration of Gene Smith's behavior would be the best popcorn moment to date in this very enjoyable saga.
...it's difficult to keep the facts straight. For example, Brian writes that "I'd think the head coach lying to keep six players eligible for an entire season obviously deserves a bowl ban and scholarship pain even when you don't account for OSU's persistently nose-thumbing response."
1. Tress didn't know of 6 players, he knew of two.
2. There are other reasons Tress didn't report this besides "to keep them eligible." Really, the position makes no sense. OSU had won 5 straight Big Ten titles, and the assumption is that Tress would do anything humanly possible solely to win his sixth? Unlikely.
3. There is a lot of hype and very little substance behind the idea that OSU is running some sort of horribly dirty program. We know some guys got some impermissible benefits, and we know Tress did not report it, and when asked said he got a tip about but wasn't honest about the specifics. He is no longer employed, and the players are suspended, and the games have been vacated. That's what we know. Is that bowl ban worthy?
Brian and about 30 other guys can do better at this than me,but just for starters it is damn clear tthat "Tress" was chasing more than just a sixth B1G championship, he thought he had a shot at the NC. He knew of (at least) two players, but then intentionally held back what he knew (at least from compliance) that would clearly have resulted in finding out quite a bit more (after all it did). Lastly, by the "Tress, Smith and Gee Half Hour Comedy Hour", OSU administration knew about all the players and still softballed themselves. Good Luck Man.
Two things: The NCAA hates liars, and the penalites are generally double the violations. So you've got a head coach who lies three times to the NCAA and has ineligible players on the field for an entire season. That seems like a 10 scholarship reduction for 2-3 years and a 2 year bowl ban to me.
1. There is evidence that Tress only knew of two, he most likely knew of the others. And let's say he didn't, well in that case if you hear that two of your players are committing NCAA infractions and you don't investigate further to see if there are other players involved there, then you deserve to be punished for neglect.
2. What reason makes more sense than to keep them eligible? OSU had a team coming back last year that was 1 win away from being in NC contention, I'd say that's a better motive for keeping the players eligible than any other reason that is put out there. And stop with this "he was protecting his players" meme. It's completely absurd, the only way he was protecting his players is by protecting their eligibility.
3. Even if you take out all the allegations that have no evidence behind it, they still committed violations worthy of a bowl ban by playing players the whole year that were ineligible. So yes, they deserve to have the whole last season wiped, as well as at least a 1 year bowl ban, with scholly reductions.
To be honest, Tressel saying he knew about only two requires the reader to believe a man who either knowingly or at least negligently misled both the NCAA and his employeer on multiple occassions.
It was knowingly. IIRC, the NCAA investigators asked him "were you aware of these violations" in December and he lied then, too.
Not to mention that he hoodwinked the NCAA into allowing those players into the sugar bowl based solely on his saintly aura. Yeah, do most definitely deserve to miss a bowl for stealing one.
Your first point is patently ridiculous. Those emails from Cicero told Tressel other players were involved, that law enforcement had found 15 pairs of cleats, 9 championship rings and more in Rife's residence. Add to that the fact Rife had been selling OSU memorabilia for profit. At that point Tressel knew that more than two players were involved. He had good reason to fear there were a LOT more.
But that would have given you a point, so I couldn't, because it was mind numbingly stupid.
All I can say is that all we know about the Fab 5 and Steve Fisher is that he helped Ed Martin get seats for games. And Michigan BB definitely got more than a season of vacated wins
With all the stuff that has come out lately, I can't remember what Pryor and the other players traded for the free tats. Was it just gold pants, autographing pictues, etc? Or was it giving the guy autographed jersey's, helmets, etc?
The latter would indicate that more than Jim Tressell was involved, unless Tressell was the one giving those players the jersey's and helmets. More than likely it was someone in the equipment room. Now that person(s) might not have known those items were going to be bartered for free tats, but wouldn't it show OSU did a poor job of maintaining control and accounting for why jersey's, helmets, etc. were missing?
OSU Equipment Manager: Rob Lachey (since 2004, has been with Equipment staff since he was in school in 1986)
Gold Pants Club President: brother, Jim Lachey (OSU '85 I think, 10 seasons in NFL, current broadcaster for OSU football games)
interesting
Everyone is overlooking OSU's biggest fear here, which those of us who have been around know is what most likely happened at the Tat Parlor. First the background: Tat Parlor owner pleads guilty to money laundering and selling drugs. By pleading, he's spared a trial - AND SO IS OSU. A trial could have involved testimony by players. About what exactly was given the players IN RETURN for memorabilia. Naturally, right now, everyone has their hair combed and their shirt tucked in, and are hemming and hawing , and saying "Oh all I ever got for the Gold Pants was some cash, or maybe one or two tattoos." Does anyone else raise any eyebrow at those kinds of demure statement? Here's what went down: They were (I am guessing) getting pot (or whatever) from the Tat guy in exchange for memorabilia. And OSU is scared to death of that. And so was Tressel.
What Tressel did, when he took Cicero's (unethical, by bar standards) "tips" by email, was very cagey, very planned, very deliberate. That deliberate decision, reached in the dark of night by JT was: 1) Don't report this to OSU or NCAA -- this was a KNOWING decisioon, he didn't forget. ; 2) Email Pryor's "mentor" repeatedly, and call him, to tip him off to get Pryor and others to "behave." What exactly he said in those phone calls, we don't know. But he was working hard. and he was brazenly tipping off , indirectly, a fact witness (Terrelle Pryor) concerning a federal drug and money laundering investigation. VERY VERY dicey stuff.
And OSU's lawyers know that they very desperately need this Tat Parlor federal investigation NOT to rear its' ugly head, by discovering that there was a much broader number of OSU players who were doing ANY kind of Tat Parlor deals. Which is why all they do to investigate that issue is send out some zany written questionaire to all FB players, effectively inviting them to lie and give them back the canned answers that OSU wants (ie, Oh, NO of course I NEVER sold anything to Tat Parlor guy.)
So OSU is STILL taking a big gamble; the Tat Parlor thing could still blow up on them.
One final point: OSU's defense of JT's "character" is indefensible, unconscionable. He did what he did; character is defined by performance under stress, when no one is looking. It appears to be a posiition based on poor judgment, til one recalls: admitting that JT was corrupt for years would INVITE the NCAA to find "lack of institutional control." It's all they could say. JT led them all down a primrose path, and did a Faustian deal with the devil. See my post on this, and other OSU matters (and Mich) at brewonsouthu.wordpress.com W Wilson
Just heard from a reliable source that tosu is being investigated by the Dispatch for a football possible point shaving scheme that has yet to come out publicly.
Has anyone heard anything about this? Would certainly take this to a whole new level....
That rumor seems to come and go every couple of weeks (at least on this board). I think most people would agree that it would be an extremely difficult task to orchestrate point shaving at the college level (or any level of football, for that matter... Even peewee. Ok, maybe peewee would be easier, but then again how many peewee players understand point shaving anyway? That would make for one heck of a headline! "Smith, 5, Jones, 4 and a half, indicted in Pop Warner Point Shaving Scandal." Ok, this has gone on long enough.)
A kid pretended like he didn't know which way to run with the ball and ended up giving the other team a safety when he ran out of the back of his own end zone. It later came out that he was pretty strung out on Jolly Ranchers at the time and that the mafiosos involved were blackmailing him with evidence of bed-wetting.
So has a rumor of point-shaving by the basketball team. Both rumors seem more than a bit much in my opinion.
Are they giving back the bowl money, including the moneys that went to the other Big 10 schools? Are they apologizing to the team they displaced from a BCS bowl? Are they apologizing to the team somewhere down the pecking order that didn't get a bowl bid because OSU did? If the NCAA doesn't require some payment of moneys AND at least a one year bowl ban, they are not only giving OSU a free pas, they're rewarding bad conduct. And, please let the record reflect, I'm not suggesting that a one year bowl ban is sufficient. I'm merely pointing out the minimum penalty to attempt to replicate the ACTUAL damage caused by OSU.
with its response, when it says: "The institution is very surprised and disappointed by the lack of action in this matter by then Head Football Coach Jim Tressel. His behavior in this situation is out of character for him, as he has been a man of integrity and high moral standards since his hiring as the head football coach in 2001." By making this claim, OSU has almost begged the NCAA to look into Tressel's conduct prior to this incident, going all the way back to his hiring, including everything to do with Maurice Clarett and Troy Smith. In a trial, this would be referred to as "opening the door" and doing so, in this instance, in a manner that would allow the NCAA to consider things it probably could not otherwise review. We can only hope that they seize the opportunity.
It's in our blood. (I claim descent.) That's how I used to weasel out of middle school English poetry assignments with free verse. Example:
Spells and magic
Crazy card games
Dungeons and Dragons, filled up flagons of glory
218 Blue Goblins with Spears (roll 436 dice)
...and on and on, in that general vein, talking about things that I knew best, until the required length was filled. I was so over haiku by 5th grade, but I had a lot of fun with those also.
Count your syllables again
Then we'll write haiku
Ohio real quick
Sometimes people cheat that line
Still a real haiku
If you cut down Ohio
To one syllable
Haiku is prob'ly
A graduate level course
At Ohio State.
I am incensed by the comments Gene Smith made. Really, Gene Smith? You'll be "on the offensive" if the NCAA makes further penalties?
I think OSU is playing a pretty dangerous game right now. The reason SMU eventually for the death penalty was not only for its pretty glaring, rampant violations, but because of the organization's refusal to take culpability and its "try it, I dare you" attitude towards the NCAA. I'm not saying OSU is getting the death penalty (which really wouldn't be good for anyone, though I might secretly snicker myself to sleep over the indignity), but they must be DAMN FOOLS to think that there will be no more sanctions.
Also, can Gene Smith be fired already? It's cruel to delay the inevitable.
Here's Gene Smith 3 weeks ago mentioning that he intends to assign private investigators to start following his FB players around. Then look at their filing here: with a straight face, they actually tell the NCAA that they have determined that "no other players" were selling memorabilia. And here's their (absurd) supporting evidence: THEY SENT OUT A QUESTIONAIRE TO ALL FB PLAYERS IN FEB '11. This is ridiculous! A written questionaire gives each player plenty of time to think VERY carefully about this spreading scandal which makes EVERY single person at OSU nervous. What that Questionnaire is guaranteed to get is almost all self-defensive, self-protective lies. It was at this junction, in Feb '11, that Gene Smith should have hired investigators, even lawyers or whoever, to go out and interview one on one each player, and also each non player who might give background. THAT's how you get to the truth of the matter. OSU didn't want to, and hasn't. Smith is a buffoon, and so is Gee -- no, I take that back, they're not buffoons, they are craven cowards who are self-interested and desperate to save their own jobs and a system at OSU which is out of control.
But the NCAA is just an old boy Inter Frat Council investigating one of its (very lucrative) members. This phony Questionaaire is just the kind of stuff that that phony member run NCAA, and million dollar a year NCAA Chair Emmert, loves. It gives them cover in propping up a system which is now fueled by a tsunami of money and no morality.
Tressel's problem was not the inability to make a decision. It's that he knew his star QB plus some other players were ineligible for the 2010 season, and he had two choices:
1. Suspend his stars, inform Compliance and the NCAA, and watch his chance at a national title go by the wayside, or
2. Play dumb and lie his ass off, hoping that nobody would find out about the rulebreaking and that he knew, thus potentially preserving his chance at a second national title.
He chose what was easy instead of what was right, and that shows his true character. Stuff all the man of integrity bunk, high moral standards codswallop, Woody wannabe military jock-sniffing, Scripture quote deception, and elaborately feigned suprise into your stinky cooler, OSU. He had a choice and he chose to cheat. The university and AD let him because he won a bunch of games. This way to the garbage can of history, fellas. Take a big whiff.
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