and... i like them? I think I like them.
RE: the rivalry. I have looked into its eyes. It isn't bigger than we think. It's smaller.
A couple plays either way is why Michigan has been better. M consistently made those plays which is why they have been the better program. Also MSU has never made those plays it doesn't matter who they play. HOw many times have you watched a game where State is doing well and thought to yourself," how are they going to fuck this up?" It's not if they messed up when then mess up.
You may have tried to assert that the rivalry has been closer (not necessarily "Bigger"), but as other's have aptly proven, you are wrong.
However, if you are one of the many farmers, veterinarians, or middle management auto workers that FEEL the MSU/UM rivalry is bigger than it is, then that's your choice.
...we could also be completely undefeated. All time. If we only had a couple of more plays go our way.
We are our own worst rivals.
No? Okay, I'm going back to bed then.
if it weren'tfor a couple of plays we wouldn't have lost to app state or toledo and we probably would have gone to the 2006 national title game and rich rodriguez would probably not be our coach
I think rivals are defined as "circle the date" games, regardless of how the teams perform that year.
My personal take as to Michigan's chief rivals:
1) Ohio State
2) Notre Dame
What do you guys think?
MSU is #2, on account of the result of the game having a noticeable effect on Sparty fans' behavior. Notre Dame fans are sort of quietly arrogant regardless of the outcome. They don't feel they need to win to be superior.
I think ND and MSU have the capacity to switch places for a year or two once in a while as programs rise and fall, but OSU stays #1.
With Dantonio and Weis both helming those programs AND the delusional nature of the fanbases, they should be battling for #2 for years to come.
The amount of anti-MSU stuff on here dwarfs the amount of anti-ND stuff here. I'll take that as a sign, and say Sparty #2.
I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, but as I mentioned above, these things are cyclical.
Right now, we are battling harder for some recruits with MSU than ND. Also, MSU fans have recently had an atypical season (as in, not totally choking); couple that with a newer vocal coach, stir in some local media looking for a $tory and . . . voila, a revived rivalry.
Another point, the MSU game is later in the season, so it's always more fresh in everyones mind.
All it will take is for the corpulent Weis to issue some inane commentary about Michigan (but never excuses) before the game, and then for ND to win it (they're returning to glory in case you missed it) to make the ND rivalry much more relevant again.
Then we'll take out his other knee.
these shirts if MSU is your #3 or lower rival?
Unless that is being sold by the athletic department, shirts from some Wal-mart do not accurately reflect the general feelings of the Michigan fanbase. Like someone else said, this is cyclical. Notre Dame had much more hate back when its fans exhibited the same delusions of grandeur that Spartan fans are currently spouting.
Going to another team's site and trying to convince them that they are as obsessed with you as you are with them seems like a grown-up version of asking "Won't you be my friend?"
OK Sparty - everyone has a different order for their UM rivalries. Most have OSU as number 1, but not all. In my experience, most of the UM fanbase feels that ND is a bigger rival than UM. That said, there are a lot of people who have lived in Michigan their entire lives who really couldn't care less about Notre Dame, maybe it's because they aren't in the Big Ten, maybe it's because they don't appreciate the academic "rivalry" that UM has with them, maybe it's something else.
There will always be in-state rivalries. Texas and Texas A&M have a rivalry, so do Oklahoma and OK State. I'm sure Walmarts sell similar t-shirts in those state. But those rivalries are on the backburner for most Texas and Oklahoma fans.
everyone has a different order, and I would never argue that Ohio State is not your number one rival. I think it is the number one rivalry in college football. My point is that some people on this board try and cast off the MSU rivalry, which I feel is not accurate of the overall fan base.
Here's the thing. There are a lot of UM fans who don't follow football that closely, live in Michigan, and have coworkers and neighbors who are MSU fans. To them, beating MSU is more important than beating OSU or ND, simply because if UM wins, they can rub it in to their coworkers and neighbors, and if MSU wins, they'll be the one getting ribbed. To them, a loss to ND isn't any different than a lose to Purdue. Also, those people buy 7 dollar t-shirts.
HOWEVA, this is not how most of the fan/alumni base feels. Sorry.
Personally, I get more excited to play Penn State and would rather beat them than MSU. They are a legitimate program, and historically we've competed more with them for recruits than with MSU. So to me, you're #4.
everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I think the MSU rivalry with Notre Dame is equal to the MSU-UM rivalry, because I have a lot of ND friends. I understand where you are coming from.
That's the most disingenuous thing I've ever read. For one, the Wal-Mart Wolverine bullshit needs to end... there are plenty of fans who didn't go to Michigan who care about the team more than a lot of alums. That stadium isn't filled by students and alumni alone.
Secondly, anyone who grows up in Michigan knows damn well that that the Michigan/Michigan State rivalry is huge. It divides subdivisions house by house. The majority of students at U of M are from the state of Michigan, I'm willing to bet most of them have State as their number two.
Nothing happened in my time at U of M to change my view of the State game... Sure, I made a lot of friends from out of state who didn't care, but they could never understand anyway and I never expected them to.
I agree w/ this
I consider MSU to be our number one rivalry. I flat out hate losing to MSU. I live in Ohio now and I still would rather lose to OSU than MSU. Plus, no one game seems to affect the immediate recruiting class more than this one.
One thing that is being overlooked here is that yes MSU may play us close at times but am I right in thinking that MSU looks at us as their #1 rival. I firmly believe that the players look at MSU as #3 or even #4 behind PSU. If I were playing my #1 rival I guarantee you that they are going to see my best game. If I am playing some middle of the road team that I know hates me but really does not have much chance against me I will not play my best game. That is probably why they come out to an early lead so often. I think if we looked at them as our #1 rival things would not be so close. One of the first things that Dantonio did when he got to EL was set a timer for a countdown to the game against us. He even went on to say how that whole season (2007) would be judged by how they played against us. RR barely even mentioned little Bro as an opponent.
That is probably why they come out to an early lead so often.
They don't really. In many of these games we dominated the first half. In both 2005 and 2007, for instance, we jumped out to 14-0 leads, and in 2003 we led 20-3 at one point. MSU has actually tended to play better in the second halves of these games.
Yes, if MSU had won those games the rivalry would be stronger. However, they didn't win those games. Please don't use the word "we" when posting.
It isn't a great rivalry unless both teams do their share. MSU hasn't done their share for the last thirty years. Really, the only time period MSU made it a decent rivalry was the 1950's and 1960's.
The rest of the time, they have been clearly inferior and unable to hold up their end of the bargain. I am looking for return to status quo this year.
Slatton was indeed kicking our ass in '04. He kept killing us running that qb wrap play where he fakes a hand off and runs off tackle. It is not a wonder he ended up getting hurt. I admire him on his guts. I also think he has more guts than sense and that would have eventually caught up with him one way or another.
I do not see MSU as a true rivalry because they almost always are rated and finish far behind UM. It is a big game that I hate seeing UM lose, but that is the point. UM gains little by winning. It is not like beating tOSU or Norte Dame or even Penn State for that matter. This years game is shaping up as an exception to the rule. It should be interesting.
reading an article one time where it was said that the average football game ends in a 7 point advantage for one team. I might be remembering something that doesn't exist (in which case, I'm scared) but this would seem to indicate that, in general, football games are close. So...you either won the game, or...
Can anyone on this board explain to me what is up with Illinois?
I swear their fans are some of the rudest, most hate-filled people I've ever encountered.
They DESPISE Michigan, and seem to hold some sort of delusion that they are one of our biggest rivals.
I've never considered them as anything more than a middle to low tier program, which has only recently changed to competitive under the spurious talents of the "Zooker".
Does anybody remember any on-field (or other) incident that Illinois fans feel could be blamed on Michigan?
I checked the archives, and we didn't loose to them from 67' to 82', and counting last year, only 4 times after the 82' season. There have been a few big blowouts (mostly by Bo) and Carr was certainly never a rub-it-in kind of coach. . .
Why are they so angry?
If beer fueled belligerence is the norm at Ohio State, then Zook must be handing out Pez dispensers full of methamphetamines at Illini home games.
or have I just been imagining things?
It is weird. It's just another game to us, but to them it's huge. Some say it goes back to the early 1980s when Bo allegedly turned in Mike White's program to the NCAA. I think Bo also felt that Gary Moeller got a raw deal there (fired after only three seasons) and that may have motivated him to run up the score a few times. I don't know why they would still hate us so much now, though.
They are also still furious over a couple of calls at the end of the 2000 game. In all fairness to them, they did get screwed.