Morgan Trent Is Not All In Comment Count

Brian

greek-riots-police-eu morgan-trent-ron-english

Another week, another riot. We are all Greek. The cause of this one:

At the end of the book, Deren describes the scene with Lloyd Carr, the former Michigan head coach that recruited Trent to Ann Arbor, breaking the news to Trent that current head coach Rich Rodriguez did him no favors.

“Rodriguez had bad-mouthed him to every NFL scout he could,” Deren writes. “Rodriguez claimed that Morgan was lazy, he had an attitude problem and he was a big reason the Wolverines finished with a 3-9 record…”

Trent admits the words were “jarring,” and they were hard to understand given that he was so serious about his career that he actually moved in with his brother and sister-in-law and their two small children while going to Michigan. [ed: "Morgan Trent was so serious about football he decided to save on rent."]

But Trent was also worried about what Carr thought about his words showing up in the book. He talks to him, not Rodriguez. “I really like Coach Carr. He’s been very good to me,” Morgan says. “I think at first he was wondering, but I let him know it didn’t put him in a bad light. I would never do something like that to Lloyd. He’s great.” …

“I guess it was motivation,” Morgan says of the words that Deren estimates may have cost him $1 million. “(I) want to show people it was all false.”

Consider it done.

Here we go again, after one hell of a game of telephone from Rodriguez to NFL scout—at this point the story can get passed to and fro ad nauseum—to Carr to Trent to book author Deren. Rodriguez issued a denial

“The comments attributed to me are inaccurate and absolutely ridiculous,” Rodriguez said in a statement. “I said just the opposite about Morgan Trent to NFL scouts and wish him well with the Bengals.”

…but even so, don't you kind of believe it anyway? Don't you sort of want to believe it? I believe Rodriguez told NFL scouts some version of what Deren says. I also believe that Trent was a lazy player with an attitude problem who was one of the main reasons Rodriguez's first team was a jumbled sack of cats attempting to claw in 20 different directions. Even if he didn't say it, I believe the words attributed to Rodriguez are accurate.

Trent's personal animosity towards Rodriguez has been made plain. We've previously established around here that football players are not compliance experts and the distinction between countable and non-countable hours befuddles even said experts. A former player's opinion on Michigan's we're-talking-about-stretching violations says more about his relationship with Rodriguez than anything about the violations. It's a Rorshach test. What Morgan Trent sees*:

"I'm not surprised because I know what happened, and I know what kind of rules were broken. I couldn't see how they were going to get out of that."

"Whatever steps need to be taken (to restore Michigan's winning tradition), I'm all for it. What is happening right now obviously is not working. I don't know how long they're going to let this last until changes are made."

What Brandon Graham sees:

"Coach Rod’s a good coach, and people are just trying to get him in trouble to me," Graham said.

So Morgan Trent is not disposed to give Rodriguez the benefit of the doubt when Lloyd Carr convenes a special meeting of the Anti-Rodriguez illuminati with the express purpose of revealing the dastardly secret carried about by Rich Rodriguez…

stonecutters_song_1

who controls the practice logs?
who puts Michigan Stadium in a bog?
weeeeee dooooooo… we do!

…that any Michigan fan could already have told you.

Here is the reason Morgan Trent went in the sixth round:

coverbad1_thumb coverbad2_thumb coverbad5_thumb

this happened like eight times in that game

He was not particularly good at football. He badly regressed after a promising junior season. Then when he went to the Shrine Bowl he "struggled," reinforcing the opinion of scouts "already down on him." The reason for this is now obvious: he hated the transition to Rodriguez, probably hated the coach himself, and spent a year half-assing it. The responsibility for this lies with Morgan Trent, even if he was so serious about football he lived with relatives(!). Attempts to deflect it only reinforce the very criticism (possibly) leveled by Rodriguez. It had nothing to do with the quality of the team, as Trent claims elsewhere in the article. A guy from Hillsdale went in the third round this year. The Bengals hadn't even talked to Rodriguez and still waited and waited and waited to take him.

During the very moments when Trent was doing whatever it was that made him a team cancer, Brandon Graham was turning himself into a first-round pick. We have not had any reports on what Rodriguez told NFL scouts about Brandon Graham, but dollars to donuts they were along the lines of "draft this man first overall and ask if he will adopt your kids." The reason Rich Rodriguez would say this is because of the things Brandon Graham did. You see, Rudy?

Now, there are a disturbing number of people who look at the Rich Rodriguez inkblot and see big pointy teeth. One major reason for this is that Rodriguez appears to be much harder on his players than Lloyd Carr. It's the very tippy top of the peak of hypocrisy for any Bo-venerating Michigan fan to look down on Rodriguez for this (his failure to resemble Bo in the win column is another matter). Part of that veneration is accepting the idea that being a coach often involves being very harsh to people who aren't living up to your expectations.

I wish that Rodriguez had managed to enter more smoothly but don't really blame him for the massive culture clash no one from fans to players to athletic director anticipated. He has a track record.

To be perfectly blunt and enraging to the denizens of the comments who get enraged when people pop on here and say dumb MLive-type things about departed players, I do blame Trent. Michigan is not going to be in good shape if Rich Rodriguez leaves after this year, and Trent would clearly like to see that happen and is operating either without a care as to how his inability to suck it up affects the program or with the express intent of getting rid of Rodriguez. Loyalty to the institution does not occur to him. It appears that correcting the record is so important to him that he's willing to sell out his alma mater to refute allegations that may not have actually happened and no one knew about. In doing so he's convinced me that the potentially fictional and definitely obscure allegations are true.

So… congratulations Morgan. You've invented a variant on the Streisand Effect.

As for Carr, he gave explicit permission to Trent to sell Rodriguez out in this book:

But Trent was also worried about what Carr thought about his words showing up in the book. He talks to him, not Rodriguez. “I really like Coach Carr. He’s been very good to me,” Morgan says. “I think at first he was wondering, but I let him know it didn’t put him in a bad light. I would never do something like that to Lloyd. He’s great.”

No, just Rodriguez. Any question as so whether or not there is a major rift between the two coaches is now gone. If there wasn't, Carr would have talked to Rodriguez about it. He would have gotten some clarification or a denial or something, and he wouldn't have presented it to Trent in the fashion he did. If he didn't do that, he would have told Trent to shut up when given the opportunity.

If there is really a New Era of Accountability in the athletic department, Carr and David Brandon should have a come-to-Jesus meeting in which Brandon does a lot of screaming. Trent is a pissed-off kid who was working for a scholarship. Carr is supposedly a program icon and an athletic department employee. Michigan shouldn't be paying someone who is actively working against the interests of the athletic department. It's obvious that Carr could have helped smooth things over with any number of players but chose not to, chose to exacerbate things in certain situations. He could have been of help during the transition; he was the opposite.

Through it all, Rodriguez just grits his teeth and asks if you've heard his Lion King joke. I shudder at the tell-all book that will inevitably follow a Rodriguez canning.

*(meta: I had to link to a mgoboard message board post instead of the News because the News shoved their story behind a paywall a month after they posted it. No one is ever going to pay for that article. Go newspapers.)

Comments

dakotapalm

May 10th, 2010 at 3:07 PM ^

If you are attempting to have your argument accepted, perhaps in your "numbers comparison" you should include the numbers that point to the understanding that RR was wildly successful at WVU, defeating a heavily favored Georgia team when Pat White was a mere freshman in 2005, taking his WVU team to the #2 ranking in 2007, winning his conference three times, and became so successful that Urban Meyer, Chip Kelly, Mack Brown and Jim Tressell all came to study his offense.

 

Yes, just keep ignoring that, because your opinions have blinded you.

Those who are supporting Rich actually have a track record to point to. I love Lloyd Carr, I hope I have lived the life of character that he has when I am in my 60's, but you are incredibly myopic if you attempt to make comparisons the way you just did.

jblaze

May 10th, 2010 at 3:09 PM ^

is stupider than blind loyalty to RR. Please tell me that you didn't graduate from Michigan!

Note, now that is out of the way...

The point is really, really simple. Morgan Trent gains nothing by publicaly bashing RR and therefore Michigan. If he had/ has an issue with RR, why not be a man and talk to him face to face (or even talk to the AD)?

The only winner in this situation is Carr, and he wins by everybody saying, "oh no. Maybe we were wrong about Carr and I miss him." Michigan as a program is a big loser. RR is a loser in this and so is Trent.

That is why something smells rotten here.

Space Coyote

May 10th, 2010 at 3:41 PM ^

Though I don't wholey agree with you, and your stats are somewhat biased.  RR may not be a success at Michigan.  I think he will be a success again, perhaps not with Michigan, but I do believe he is a good coach and will find success some where if he doesn't at Michigan this year. 

 

The point I agree with you on are the blind loyalty to RR has gotten a bit much.  People are ignoring that violations still occurred.  That bugs me.  I'm not saying other schools don't do it, but it bugs me that people just brush it off as 10 minutes of stretching.  I don't agree with the rule, but it is there and it was broken.  It is not as heinous as the free press said it was, and I hate the free press because I think their integrity is nonexistent and that they are pushing biased assumptions as facts that just are not so in order to sell more papers.  I think we have to look at it unbiased though (which to some people's credit is the case). 

 

As a fan base at large we are divided.  RR supporters are throwing any old regime under the bus entirely.  Old regime is throwing RR under the bus.  Why?  Blind loyalty, no matter who for, is still blind loyalty.  Both sides are filtering for the sake of their arguments, and neither is looking at the whole picture.  Carr was a great coach.  RR has been a great coach and hopefully will be for Michigan.  If he isn't, he probably will be at another school.  Sometimes, though, it doesn't work out, which may be the case with Michigan and RR.  I wait for next year and the year after to decide if RR has succeeded at Michigan, until then I plan on looking at both sides, and with all my passion root for Michigan

mtzlblk

May 10th, 2010 at 4:29 PM ^

some minor infractions occured, we change how we track/attribute and move on, they just don't bother me that much. It wasn't a conscious, protracted, deliberate flouting of easily interpreted rules that in any way harmed a player or provided a material advantage to M.

RR supporters are not the people fixated on them as a major issue. It is the anti-RR faction that trots them out as some sort of felonious offense each and every opportunity they get.

If you think there were never any oversights in any other coaching administration at Michigan, then I would suggest you live in a fantasy world where M football has always been perfect and only under RR has become imperfect. Thje difference is, previous administrations did not have insiders selling them out and helping to focus a microscope on the program in order to besmirch it.

UMICH1606

May 10th, 2010 at 3:48 PM ^

It is naive to think that some of those accusations of violations didn't go on previously before RR even stepped foot on campus, especially anything Quality Control coach related violations. They answer to the compliance department, not the football staff. The comliance department also probably should have mentioned before it was a year to late that their policy for tracking hours involves filling out a CARA form too. Rich should have known better about a lot of things, but anything Quality Control related, he was just carrying on what practices and policies that were set before him because those guys answer to the Athletic Department, not him. You are kidding yourself if you think if anyone would have sent a come on down type of invitation to the NCAA to come in and look around that they would have came away unscathed regardless of regime.

M-Wolverine

May 10th, 2010 at 5:30 PM ^

But this one is just not true.  The Quality Control Coaches were all Rich Rod hires, and Rich Rod guys.  Not carryovers. And he had way more of them (different titles and all) than we had before.  They were not University hires foisted upon Rich.

Section 1

May 10th, 2010 at 3:54 PM ^

1.  Rich Rodriguez stepped up, and denied the story.

2.  Lloyd Carr is apparently, without other explanation, "declining comment."

My loyalty isn't blind.  It is just real loyalty.  What brand of "loyalty" does Carr subscribe to?

Johnnybee123

May 10th, 2010 at 4:06 PM ^

Also, if I remember correctly, didn't Lloyd Carr sit with the Iowa coaches during our game against them?  I'm not saying that this has any relevant impact to the Trent situation, but what message does that send to Coach Rodriguez?  And remember, that Iowa game was when we had only one loss, so by no means did the "we are horrible" excuse exist at that point.

All I ask is that Lloyd traditionalists stop looking at the past so nostalgically  ("everything was great...the program was never crticized by former players...we were so awesome...we never had character issuses on our teams...we never lost to teams that we shouldn't have...").

Section 1

May 10th, 2010 at 4:58 PM ^

I said, and still say, that Carr's being a guest of the Iowa Athletic Department in their stadium is absolutely not evidence of anything except grace and good manners on the part of all concerned.

So, I am ready to defend Carr where the facts warrant.

But his silence on the Morgan Trent story is inexcusable.

mtzlblk

May 10th, 2010 at 6:56 PM ^

this blind hate for RR is just stupid....

It is blasphemy to support anything he does. We can make and accept any tenuous connection to any incoming recruit or perhaps uncover tiny errors in attributing practice time as voluntary v. involuntary in order to slam him every opportunity we get. We will ignore any evidence to the contrary that might server to bolster his image. We can accept anything negative that is written about him as gospel.

How dare anyone have the gall to say something in support of him without trolls popping up all over the place trying to refute any claim to the contrary that he is a classless hayseed who will never win at M.

We aren't against him or trying to bring him down, we are just leaping on anything and everything we can get ourt hands on to portray him in a negative light. We are loyal Michigan fans.

You choose your source:

1. Graham: non-biased, loyal, dedicated, hard-working player with great work ethic that was a first round pick

2. Trent: publicly a declared anti-RR bias, resentful of new regime and the level of dedication required, vocal negative influence on team chemistry, publicly makes unfounded negative statements baout RR

Equal in terms of credibility? Only in your eyes.

Provide a link or quote where RR bashes Carr please, would love to see it.

Let's pretend that we're a relevant, elite football program in Carr's final years.

Let's pretend that the program was on the upswing with a roster laden with talent when RR took over.

Let's pretend that no other team has ever undergone a downturn as part of a coaching change where a radically new system was being put in place.

Some items for you to consider:

-RR has shown himself to be a strict disciplinarian

-Team GPA has gone up in his tenure -the edge and work ethic that Bo brought to the program has returned

-RR's constantly evident care for his players and their families

-part of your beloved 'infractions' have to do with OVER enforcing class attendance...I'll take it

-hiring a few more coaches doesn't indicate any intention of breaking any rules

I think some of you are so far down the rabbit hole, there's no light in sight. 

jlvanals

May 10th, 2010 at 4:28 PM ^

RR likely said something bad about Morgan Trent to scouts.  He stood to gain absolutely nothing from doing so.  This is equivalent to spreading rumors about people in bathrooms in high school just because you don't like them.  Rodriguez might have gotten away with it if Lloyd Carr didnt do the same thing when he repeated the rumor to Trent instead of confronting Rodriguez like a man.  Carr's actions do not worry me as much because he is not the coach at the University of Michigan anymore.  

Both actions show a failure of leadership.  That is what makes this so sad: in their desire to make themselves look better, both of these men ended up dragging another person through the mud (deserving or not).   Hubris is an issue with human beings.

blueloosh

May 10th, 2010 at 6:58 PM ^

Out of your entire misguided post, the most spectacularly wrong assertion was this:

Rodriguez has implied on more than one occasion that Carr is significantly at fault for UM's failures in '08 and '09.  Carr has taken the high road and never responded to his name being dragged through the mud. 

That is not true.  Rodriguez has implied there were gaps in Michigan's talent for 2008.  He did not say his predecessor was to blame.

If you are confused by this, let me share a novel thought: a lot of players left (for the NFL, other schools) and no coach is personally to blame.  The transition (i.e. fundamental change in attitude and scheme) left the cupboard bare.  Not Lloyd.  Saying the cupboard was bare does not mean "Lloyd left the cupboard bare."  Stop personalizing it.  Bad things can happen without having one person to blame.  No one has dragged Lloyd's name through the mud.  Please tell your friends.  And please stop posting this tired, inaccurate complaint.

UMICH1606

May 10th, 2010 at 2:51 PM ^

What I think is so troubling about anything that has ever happened these past 2+ years with regards to all the former players publicly criticizing the program, Lloyds overall silence and lack of effort to squash a lot of this, and what he may or may not have said to Morgan Trent is as what Sam stated so well this morning on his radio program. It goes against everything they were ever taught about the history and tradition of the program, and what it means to be a Michigan Wolverine football player or coach. They were taught that not one person is bigger than the program, and this program is all about, the team, the team, the team, and publicly working against the program is not what this program is all about. I have no arguement if any former player or coach has an issue with the past 2 seasons, or do not like the direction that the program is going under Rich, but it is also counter productive in every way possible to take those frustrations public. It hurts in regards to PR, and recruiting. I can only hope that Dave Brandon sends out a memo that criticism is accepteped, but from now on, lets handle this behind closed doors, and not publicly trash the program anymore.

dahblue

May 10th, 2010 at 3:03 PM ^

This story is really tearing folks apart in here (especially me...holy shit...I've been neg-raped sans vasoline or syrup), but maybe folks are missing a central theme...

We are all Michigan fans (and/or "Men" if that's the preferred term).  Rich Rod is a Michigan Man.  Morgan Trent is a Michigan Man.  Lloyd Carr is a Michigan Man.  Bobby Deren is not a Michigan Man and has only 44 followers on Twitter

As Michigan Men, all of us (including RR, Trent and LC) have every right to want the best for the program, but we'll likely define that in different ways.  I don't think there is anything wrong with having differing opinions.  We should be able to disagree within the Michigan family without accusations of someone not being "All In" or not being a "Michigan Man".

dahblue

May 10th, 2010 at 4:02 PM ^

I hear ya...I wish that it stayed in house.

It seems impossible to know, with this current fracas (a nice term dating back to the MSU potluck attack), what is/isn't true, but (if true) this all could have been avoided (again, if allegations are true) if RR guarded his opinion of Trent more carefully.  In the long run, he can say (nearly) whatever he wants if he wins games.

Magnus

May 10th, 2010 at 3:08 PM ^

Brian,

a) I think you should be careful of the insults/allegations you toss around, especially regarding Carr, who still works for the institution that you chronicle.  You are a giant voice for Michigan's fan base, I think, and insulting Carr is probably out of line, IMO.

b) You hit the nail on the head when you said that Trent had a "promising junior year" and then you dropped the ball.  Rodriguez essentially admitted that his hiring of defensive coordinator/cornerbacks coach (Trent's position coach) Scott Shafer was a mistake by neutering him mid-season and then firing him after the year.  We were all questioning the defensive strategies and alignments all year, yet it's somehow Trent's fault that all those hitches and out routes were completed.  I begged and pleaded for people to understand during the 2008 season that the cornerbacks were being coached to play off and bail out into a Cover 3, but to no avail.  Many of those short completions were NOT TRENT'S FAULT.  I don't know how to say that any more clearly.  We didn't get any pressure on the quarterback, and our linebackers sucked in pass coverage.  It was a poor scheme, which was deadly when combined with the subpar execution by many team members.

El Jeffe

May 10th, 2010 at 3:19 PM ^

To the extent that Trent's prowess at CB is relevant to this debate, it is in terms of how much his play on the field led to his being chosen in the 6th round, versus what seems be his explanation, that RR dogged him to scouts. Some of that poor performance may have been scheme, as you suggest, but it was his play nonetheless, or so the argument goes. Of course, none of us really knows why he was chosen when he was chosen.

I totally agree with what you have said in past threads that blasting Trent's public criticism of RR on the grounds of "herp derp, TOAST!!!!" was idiotic.

jlvanals

May 10th, 2010 at 3:28 PM ^

Magnus, your point about the scheme was much needed.  Trent didn't cover himself in glory in '08, but he was never put in a position to succeed either.  However,  I think the more important question is this: what the hell was Rodriguez thinking making that kind of zero sum comment to a scout?  I mean seriously, what does he stand to gain by trashing a former player?  It is petty, childish and likely to breed the kind of enemies/resentment that seems to plague him in his tenure at Michigan.  At the very least, it was a poorly calculated decision to talk about someone behind their back (a la the quintessential high school bathroom banter) and expect it to never get back to them.  This wreaks of the kind of negativity one should want to keep out of a 3-9 program at all costs. 

Even if RR was right in his assessment about Morgan Trent (an assessment I do not necessarily agree with), he stood to gain nothing by trashing Trent's draft stock, yet he did it anyway, out of pure spite.  That is poor leadership on Rodriguez's part and much, much more worrisome than Brian is letting on.

El Jeffe

May 10th, 2010 at 3:36 PM ^

Are you fucking kidding me?

what the hell was Rodriguez thinking making that kind of zero sum comment to a scout?  I mean seriously, what does he stand to gain by trashing a former player?  It is petty, childish and likely to breed the kind of enemies/resentment that seems to plague him in his tenure at Michigan.

he stood to gain nothing by trashing Trent's draft stock, yet he did it anyway, out of pure spite.

I think what you meant to say was

some unnamed scouts allegedly told Lloyd Carr that Rich Rod was trashing Trent, and then Lloyd supposedly told Trent, and then Trent apparently told a blogger who self-published a book.

Fixed.

Edit: all of your claims have been publicly and forcefully refuted by Rich Rod, if that matters. So basically your facts are 100% hearsay that have been flatly denied by the alleged perpetrator.

jlvanals

May 10th, 2010 at 3:50 PM ^

Your theory is that Lloyd Carr made this up off the top of his head, just to mess with Rodriguez?  Plausible.  

No one is absolving Carr of blame.  He should be reprimanded for undermining Rodriguez, a behavior that is not only unprofessional, but clearly unacceptable in this context. Carr shouldn't have said anything to Trent as that only further exacerbates the PR situation his employer is facing.  What he should have done is sat down with Rodriguez first and discussed it like a man.

That being said, it is patently naive to think Carr made an allegation of that nature without corroboration from at least one source who talked to Rodriguez.   Also, I don't find it surprising that Rodriguez would deny doing something as distasteful as professionally smearing a former player whether he actually did it or not.  

El Jeffe

May 10th, 2010 at 3:55 PM ^

Lloyd made no allegations. A blogger reported in his self-published book that Morgan Trent told him that Lloyd told him that some scouts told him that Rich Rod was bashing him.

Lloyd didn't make anything up because he hasn't gone on record with anything. I was objecting to your characterization of the five layers of hearsay as "what Rich Rod did."

jlvanals

May 10th, 2010 at 4:13 PM ^

But, Lloyd did make allegations in that he said somone told him something (still an allegation, just not something he heard first hand).  He clearly should not have repeated something damaging to the program/RR, but do you seriously dispute that Rodriguez, in all likelihood made those comments in substance if not form? 

I'm guessing that this scout (and vicariously Carr) didn't pull this idea from thin air. However, if it comes out as BS, I will gladly eat  my gigantic helping of crow. :)

blueblueblue

May 10th, 2010 at 3:30 PM ^

Comment redacted, this whole thing is a fucking disaster. Its not worth it. 

But also worried about what Carr thought about his words showing up in the book. He talks to him, not Rodriguez. “I really like Coach Carr. He’s been very good to me,” Morgan says. “I think at first he was wondering, but I let him know it didn’t put him in a bad light. I would never do something like that to Lloyd. He’s great.”

No, just Rodriguez. Any question as so whether or not there is a major rift between the 

jblaze

May 10th, 2010 at 3:43 PM ^

I'm sorry, but where has it been proven that RR publicly smeared his player? If anything, it was not public, as the "source" heard this second or third hand, and it took over a year to come out.

That's not public and since we don't know what RR said (beside hearsay by X degrees) it may not even be a smear.

jlvanals

May 10th, 2010 at 4:07 PM ^

Please re-read the comment.  I said that he professionally smeared Trent.  If you were applying for a job and someone said that you were "lazy" and "unmotivated" which I believe were specifically quoted in Brian's post as things Rodriguez said about Trent, that would constitute a smear, or at least something offensive to you. 

As as I said in a post further down, I think Lloyd Carr's behavior here was unprofessional as well.  He should have kept this information to himself or had a meeting with RR to clear the air and discuss any grievances he had.  He deserves to be reprimanded as such.  That being said, it makes no sense for RR to make a comment against Trent.  It is a zero sum action that, at best, leaves him where he started and, at worst, creates more enemies. 

I also do not believe Lloyd Carr would just make this up, for any motivation.   Carr is a great number of things, but I don't personally believe a liar is one of them.   I think Brian at least implies as much in his post (i.e. that Rodriguez probably did say something along the lines of what Trent alleges to NFL scouts).  

If it comes out that Carr lied or misrepresented those comments, I'll have to eat crow, and will personally apologize to all my negbangers :).  I'm not trying to be difficult, I just think people are overlooking a gigantic lapse in judgment from Rodriguez.

jlvanals

May 10th, 2010 at 4:38 PM ^

Let's look at these two scenarios:

RR says nothing about Trent.  Talent evaluators get the drift, adjust their rankings accordingly, Trent likely falls to the same spot he is.  Same thing gets accomplished, except RR doesn't look like he's selling out one of his players and potentially antagonizing those who don't want him to be UM's coach. 

OR

RR says something negative about Trent to scouts.  RR assumes that this information will never get back to Trent.  Ironically, it does just that through Trent's old coach.  Now old coach doesn't like RR because not only did RR take a player who was at least league average under old coach and turn him into a cover 3 bailing nightmare, but he professionally bashed the player for the difficulties the player had in picking up the new scheme.  Both coach and player feel betrayed, enemies get made from people who are close to old coach (i.e. former players from 1996ish to present, boosters, etc.) and player (guys player played with, potential recruits from his HS, other former players, family, etc).  After this, draft stock drops, arguably not that much more than if RR doesn't say anything.

In the first scenario, the result RR wants is accomplished while he still looks like the good guy and as if he is supporting the previous coach's players.  This is likely important because the old coach was a players coach, ergo he probably takes major offense to people who mistreat his players. 

This is hardly rocket science, just a rule RR should have learned in kindergarten: never say anything about anyone that you wouldn't want them to hear.

BlueintheLou

May 10th, 2010 at 6:30 PM ^

Or, RR says nothing to scouts when prompted. Scouts don't particularly like being ignored. Scouts no longer want to scout future kids.

Giving an honest answer is perfectly fine. I don't expect all of your old professors and contacts to give positive reviews of you in letters of recommendation, but you just get to choose who can send those. Trent didn't

blueblueblue

May 10th, 2010 at 8:40 PM ^

Yeah, I decided that the post was too insulting to Brian, and that I would have spent too much energy thinking about it afterward. I will say that I think Brian's post above is short-sighted, irresponsible, reactionary garbage. It evidences linear thinking, someone trying to see the issue with blinders on. I have lost a lot of respect for the guy. He is succeeding only in further polarizing the local (to this blog, and I now see also to WTKA) fanbase even more. 

seanml11

May 10th, 2010 at 3:27 PM ^

I have been waiting for something like this to be written.  I really have been dissapointed with how Carr has acted through this crisis.  I think you hit it on the head Brian!  Great stuff!

mgovictors23

May 10th, 2010 at 3:32 PM ^

My whole opinion on this is still the same. Morgan Trent was just flat out not very good. He got owned every game basically what seemed to be his whole senior year. I sincerely hope Lloyd Carr didn't do what is being suggested by everyone. The guy has always had a lot of class so it's surprising to me he would potentially do this. While he was a class act the fact is he really started slipping as a coach especially in recruiting. People can say it's bad to say that Lloyd didn't leave Rodriquez much but that is the flat out truth. As much as  I admire Lloyd Carr as a guy you just have to look at the facts, he didn't leave much talent at Michigan when Rich Rodriquez took the job.

Tim Waymen

May 10th, 2010 at 3:52 PM ^

I agree with many of the sentiments expressed about the statement that Carr gave "explicit permission." It's too speculative and there is not much of a logical jump. My own take is that if Trent is so cavalier about tossing around RR's name in a negative light because of his own issues with him, then he probably won't be too careful about how he references Carr, especially if he can use his name to discredit RR even at the risk of Carr's image.

However, I do think that this sentence is not very far off:

Any question as so whether or not there is a major rift between the two coaches is now gone.

A bunch of Lloyd's former players have already badmouthed RR to the press and caused HUGE amounts of damage in the process, Ron English is in another anti-RR camp (someone please tell me the basis for the story he put former players in touch with the Freep), Rick Leach railed against Lloyd for what he saw as giving UM a "huge middle finger," and now this? I know that Lloyd claims to have a hands-off stance with regard to RR, but this is ridiculous. You'd expect him to call off the dogs at some point. I love Lloyd, but he's practically Jay Leno to RR's Conan O'Brien. For such a class act, Lloyd is up to some shady stuff IMO.

sharkhunter

May 10th, 2010 at 4:18 PM ^

upcoming book that is otherwise not news worthy.  RR is a magnet for bashing and clicks (see DFP) and the author is trying to make a story happen.   

Also, wasn't Morgan Trent projected to go somewhere between 6th and 7th rounds anyway? 

#30 CB 7th/FA

http://www.nfldraftbible.com/Defensive/2009_nfl_draft_cornerback_rankin…

#211 overall - 7th

http://cfn.scout.com/2/751002.html

 

 

Yinka Double Dare

May 10th, 2010 at 5:57 PM ^

Certainly anyone who thinks that some maybe-never-happened negative comments by Rodriguez to some unnamed scout or scouts cost Morgan Trent a million bucks has a brain that is located somewhere beyond the sea.

No one, and I mean no one, had Morgan Trent in the first or second round.  And if he wasn't going to go in the first or second round, no comments could have cost him a million bucks.  Most third rounders get sub-million signing bonuses and the minimum salary.  Instead, Trent actually went HIGHER than the gurus ranked him.  I mean sheesh, didn't everyone think Donovan Warren was generally better than Trent was (Trent was the one that got picked on a lot more, so the other teams' offensive coordinators certainly saw it), the same Donovan Warren that just went undrafted?

And I really think this is awfully flimsy stuff to go after Lloyd on -- Trent is fair game, he has a right to say ridiculous things and we have a right to think he's a complete jackass and call him on it.  But are we really entirely sure that Lloyd even did anything here?  I mean, Trent could be totally full of crap too.

FrankMurphy

May 10th, 2010 at 5:06 PM ^

Isn't it a bit premature to throw Carr under the bus (unless there's more to the story that you're not divulging...)? If the allegation that Rodriguez badmouthed Trent to NFL scouts is false, then surely the allegation that Trent heard about it from Carr himself can also be false. I don't see why you're dismissing the claims about Rodriguez but taking the claims about Carr at face value. 

I'm all in for RichRod, but I'm not sure I totally buy this idea of a rift between Carr and Rodriguez. I'm sure they're not best friends, but it's simply not in Carr's personality to involve himself in the affairs of the program after his retirement. I think that's the reason he has kept his distance. I think their relationship is more like Carson-Leno than Letterman-Leno. Carr may have chosen someone different to succeed him, but he recognizes that the decision is not his to make and wants to avoid any perception that he's trying to stay involved with running the program.

Again, unless you know something that you're not sharing with us. 

NOLA Wolverine

May 10th, 2010 at 5:17 PM ^

You can't cite that picture as evidence against Morgan Trent, he did his assignment as instructed, that's on the support player (Where ever he was in that god awful set), who was probably out of position because that defense was ridiculous. That one's on Schaffer. Not that Morgan didn't get killed his far share of times that year.