Listening to the RR presser I was amazed when he talked about Helmuth switching to the d line and how Helmuth thought he could get fat and needs to get back in shape, but he likes his potential. For those in the know, could someone explain how this happens?? I assumed the "voluntary" workouts were basically mandatory to stay on the team and hearing about how detailed Barwis is about these kids bodies I was assuming he had a whole dietary and workout plan to change the kids body composition to get ready for dline. RR didn't give details, but I would think Barwis would have had this ironed out in January if he was on the pizza and beer diet. Do they not have as much contact with these guys as I thought?? Thanks for any info.
Mike Gundy loves Vince Helmuth
You can't control what a player eats when he's not at training table. If he wants to eat a pizza every night to get bigger - and if he's going to play DT, he knows he needs to put on weight fast - then he's going to consume a lot of calories.
You can't really blame the kid too much. He needs to put on weight somehow. I'd rather have him eat too much pizza than use steroids.
Well, Barwis has his own secret Gestapo which makes unannounced searches of the players' dorm/apt rooms to search for unauthorized food, but Helmuth had a secret hiding place in the attic where he hid all his fatty foods and beer and to escape Barwis.
Last year I thought they said Barwis took blood samples each week so he knew what players were eating. My point is hypothetically Helmuth comes in on Jan 1 and Barwis says Vince you are 252 we want you at 285. You do this this and this and we'll put on 3lbs a week of muscle. On Jan20th he sees Helmuth can't complete a conditioning drill and weighs him in at 275 and says what are you doing and Helmuth fesses up to pounding Pizzas and Taco Bell on 2:00am binges. Doesn't that incur some Barwis wrath and extra conditioning etc.. to get him back in line and if he continues to ignore them don't they call him into the office and give him the LLoyd and throw his scholarship papers at him??
Gaining weight isn't such an exact science. Trainers can't say "You'll lose __________ amount of weight" or "You'll gain __________ amount of weight" if you do certain things. Everyone's body is different, everyone's metabolism is different, it depends on how much sleep you get, what type of activities you're doing, etc., etc.
Barwis could give him a plan to gain weight, but it might go slower or faster than he intends.
I guess we're arguing around my question. RR said Helmuth was not in shape. My point is after 3 months of "the best offseason conditioning program in America" how can a guy be out of shape?? It seems like you would not be able to complete the required work if your are "out of shape." This would signify not buying in and not attending and then buh bye. His weight to me is not an issue, if he gains it quick fast whatever. RR said he was not in shape and my question how is that posssible if he works out with his teammates every day. Is it really not mandatory?? Are they unsupervised a majority of the time in the gym so you can sluff off and pound your pud. I thought with all the assistants around and being part of a small unit each guy had to be pretty responsible for improving which if is the case he has 7 guys pretty pissed off.( I heard they were split into 8 man teams for the offseason Olympics*)
"In shape" is a relative question. I'm 6'3" and 240 pounds. The fact that I can run three miles at a decent pace means I'm in shape (I think). The fact that a kid who's 5'8" and 145 pounds can run 4 or 5 miles...isn't so impressive.
I'm sure Vince Helmuth can run longer than I can, and faster, too. He can outlift me also.
That doesn't mean he's "in shape" the way Rodriguez and Barwis want him to be.
Are the workouts mandatory?? Are they supervised?? If the answers are yes and yes how does RR call anyone on his team out of shape??? I thought they had goals that if not met they don't play. I'm sure even a "fat" Hellmuth could run circles around me and I'm in great shape and 100lbs less than him, I could care less. I am more concerned about how are state of the art Weight program has a guy in it that is fat....what's that Mike?? FAT!!! Elaine?? Kramer?? What is in the Non-Fat Yogurt??? FAT!!!!
Why does this bother you so much?
I'm not upset just trying to get answer. When things don't add up in my head I like trying to figure it out and I have no means to do that so I go to the experts. These ones I have battled on the internet endlessly with no sufficient answer feel free to solve.
1. We need QB's and Threet leaves program because rumor is RR tells him he won't play even though he tells us every time we hear him that every job is open every day you have to earn it. Doesn't add up.
2. Barwis according to all the T. Taylor and other stories last year is on everyone all the time, he doesn't sleep he doesn't eat he just cares about making his kids the best they can be. After 3 months of pure conditioning RR says Helmuth is out of shape because he thought he could get fat.
Doesn't add up.
3. Every announcer after a Tight End fires off the line of scrimmage and catches a pass over the middle says the LB needs to get a jam there, yet you never see a LB get a jam on anyone.
Doesn't add up.
He could be pretty close to in shape for a DT but not close to being in shape for a DE.
Even if Barwis is the almight god of S&C, not EVERY SINGLE PLAYER is going to be max'ed to the fullest. Some dudes will end up being fat, for whatever reason. I wouldn't worry about it.
RR said he was out of shape. If they work out or run 5 days a week under close supervision how do you get out of shape?? It's not like he was Jason Kates..tyring to cut a few lbs.
The answers I want are not that some people are lazy or have slow metabolisms, I am curious on what they go thru and if they do what they say it seems impossible barring injury or guys that want to quit the program that you could get out of shape. My assumptions based on articles I read.
1.They work out 5 days a week in intense supervised workouts.
2.Barwis has a work out plan tailored to each player with specific goals they need to reach at the end of each segment.
3.They are bundled into 8 man groups for peer pressure to meet your goals or your whole group suffers.
4. They are weighed and blood is drawn weekly to check their health.
If the above is true my question stands how do you get out of shape?? Seems like if you fell of track you would be under heavy scrutiny to get back and if you failed you would be gone, because with all the support systems in place the only way you could fail is if you wanted to fail. Maybe it is 3lbs and RR is needling him, but for RR to single 1 guy out as out of shape seems odd.
"Seems like if you fell of track you would be under heavy scrutiny to get back and if you failed you would be gone."
It seems to me that Rodriguez mentioning him specifically in a press conference would put Helmuth "under heavy scrutiny", wouldn't it?
I think you just answered your own question.
What dex said.
Also, you do see linebackers jam tight ends. It's not as frequent as it should be, but it happens. The thing is, you don't notice when it happens because it doesn't occur at a point on the field where you normally look. And a jam isn't necessarily a full-body blow - it's just giving them a push that throws off their timing/route.
for a guy who switched from FB to DT, was not highly regarded out of high school, and probably will never play a meaningful snap. Anyway, Helmuth probably confused Barwis's diet plan with Alex Mitchell's. I am sure the staff will correct this mix-up.
Threet transfered because he saw the writing on the wall. Between Tate, Denard, and the guys that will be coming in next recruiting class, Threet's playing time and practice reps were going the way of the Coner.
He was the top fullback coming out of high school...
Yeah, he was regarded fairly well, and I'm sure they feel he has a shot at seeing the field or they wouldn't have moved him and they wouldn't be talking about him right now.
Posted this on the front page story comments, but I guess no one read it...
Seems to me that there is a lot of promise from his HS days (below) - maybe he's not big will jr, but no reason he shouldn't contribute at some point in the future either at DE or DT.
"three-year starter at defensive line and fullback ... finished prep career with 110 tackles, 11 sacks, two forced fumbles, two fumble recoveries and two interceptions... tallied 36 tackles, seven sacks and two interceptions during senior campaign ... selected first-team all-state at linebacker by The Detroit News... first-team all-state defensive lineman and running back by the Detroit Free Press... Ann Arbor News Player of the Year and was named all-league on offense and defense by the newspaper... two-time Division I state champion in the discus... won the state title in the shot put..."
I am impressed, sir. I'm 6'5"-265 and just the thought of running 3 miles makes me sweat a little. Obviously, "In shape" is VERY relative.
"You do this this and this and we'll put on 3lbs a week of muscle."
THIS ain't happening without a needle of testosterone to the ass a couple times a week
Even then it would be physically impossible to put on 3 lbs. of muscle a week for any lengthy period of time.
I said "hypothetically". I've worked out pretty steady for 20 years and have gained 0lbs so I have no idea what is reasonable. When kids come in they often times want them to add muscle and we have all seen the articles where some guys have added 20 or so pounds of muscle over the summer or whatever so how about we say 3 lbs per month so Tate should have gained 21lbs and be faster by August. Let's bookmark this and review when the article on Tate and all the work he has done comes out the 1st week of August.
I doubt he'll put on 21 pounds, but that is a more realistic goal (3 pounds a month as opposed to 3 pounds a week).
Regardless, if he's in good shape for a 180 pounder but he adds 21 pounds, then good shape for a 201 pounder might be different than good shape for a 180 pounder.
There's a reason that Olympic sprinters aren't 240 pounds and log distance runners aren't 200 pounds.
RR knows that he converted to DT and would account for that in his evaluation of his conditioning which I also assume he knows little about and is going off reports he is getting from Barwis. I don't think the converstion went as such.
RR: Hey Mike I ran into Hellmuth and he looked like Alex Mitchell what happened?
MB: Well, I thought you said he was moving to DT??
RR: I did but I wanted him to be able to keep the same speed and play DT at 235.
MB: You are a dumb ass, go run a lap coach.
I agree. The conversation probably didn't go like that.
I don't even know what the question is anymore.
Helmuth asked to move to DT. Check.
The coaches told him he needed to put on weight. Check.
Some of that weight he put on was unhealthy (i.e. too much fat). Check.
He is now being pressure to turn that weight into muscle, lose some weight, or simply improve his stamina. Check.
I think we can assume that's what happened.
I'm also pretty sure that this is how the story goes. Not a big deal. He was supposed to gain weight and went a little overboard. Brandon Graham was like that not too long ago and he turned out OK.
I have a similar story to Helmuth....minus DI ability. You can put weight on if you want....no matter what the training program is. If the kid is eating a ton, he will gain weight even if he his lifting his balls off.
I came into college at 215lbs and was a fullback. Ended up about 3rd string at the end of the year and the next year looked no better. The D-line had some openings and I had a shot at the two-deep there. So that off-season I did our S&C program(definitely not Barwisized) and ate the crap out of everything in sight. Dining hall, Papa Johns, you name it. With lifting and spring conditioning, I was up to about 250 by the next fall.(no suppliments at all...just good ole starches) Some of that was probably not good weight but a lot of it was muscle too. Anyway, the point is with a structured plan a kid can still gain some "bad" weight. My stomach might have grown a little.
To finish the story, I ended up eating my way to the offensive line and started my last two years as a guard at 290-305. Moral of the story.....if you are going to eat and lift a lot, make sure you keep your quick feet.(thanks conditioning class even though I hate you still) Helmuth should be okay, but it was funny to hear coach rib him a little.
What is your weight now and how long did it take you to lose that weight, if you were able to lose it?
I am currently at 290 and 29 years old. I have lost about 35 in the last 6 months as I have hit the treadmill and done some other cardio. I have two little girls and want to walk them down the aisle.
After ball it was hard to get back into the weight room as I did not enjoy that part of the experience, the whole running and lifting thing. It was a necessary evil back then. And when I got done with things, the last thing I wanted to do was lift and run.
Being active still with rec league sports, I don't feel like I need to lose anything. But after losing the 35 I can see and feel what it will be like to at least get down to 240 again....man, that will be cool. Plus I heard that for every 30lbs you lose your member gets an inch longer! Now that is motivation.
In 10th grade, I was 5'11" and about 125 lbs. My coach told me I "looked like a skeleton" and told me to drink a milkshake every day during the next summer and gave me a weightlifting routine to follow. I put on about 15 pounds that summer and upgraded my appearance from skeleton to starving child.
I guess it worked since I no longer looked like total crap and was a little bit faster the next year. Very unscientific method there.
Now, almost ten years later, I'm still 5'11", but about 180 lbs. I look much healthier, but I sure as hell can't run as far or fast anymore. Oh well.
Why would OK State's coach love Helmuth? Do you mean Mike Gittelson?
He means this.....sorry, I don't know how to embed.
You figured out my dastardly riddle...FAT!!!!!!
Sorry - I totally missed the connection.
Of course, Mike *Gittelson* probably loves him too. Vince seems to be following Mike's diet plan to the "T."
I listen to Jim Rome a lot and he plays the "FAT" part of the drop a lot. If you are not a fan I could see how it was missed.
The premise of this thread is so stupid it makes my brain hurt.