Mailbag: Robbie Moore, Four-Year Scholarships, Bowl Attendance Criteria, Buckeye Lingo Comment Count

Brian

Great goalies past. An emailer brings up a name before my time:

Robbie_Moore_and_Greg_Fox[1] 

As an alum who graduated in 1979, I would nominate Robbie Moore as a great UM goalie. If you think Hunwick is tiny, just check out the vitals and (lack of) padding on Moore. Robbie was one of the first entertainers at Michigan, earning cheers from the student section when he would hop atop the goal during timeouts and just sit there, swinging his legs back and forth.
His pro career appears to just be incredibly unlucky. I'm guessing he might have had a significant NHL stay if his rookie experience in the playoffs for the Flyers had gone just a bit better. The Flyers had to replace Parent, and Robbie just got on the wrong side of Pete Peeters and Pelle Lindbergh.
Yost wasn't tricked out in those days and UM was a solid program (made the frozen four in 76, I believe) but not a consistently great one. But Moore was a blast.

Best,
Jamie Turner

I think Hunwick should do the sit-on-the-goal thing. Probably tougher these days when the thing can come out from underneath you.

Brian,

Besides stating the obvious, could you please explain the difference between four-year scholarships and one-year renewable scholarships?  I have never heard of a coach just flat out cutting a guy for performance (publicly anyway).  Even Saban gives his kids "medical" hardships instead of sending them on their merry way.  Also, what happens in disciplinary cases?  Do coaches still have the power to kick an athlete off the team for violating rules?  And what would happen in cases like Tony Posada's last year (coming in out of shape)?  Thanks in advance.

Go Blue,
Stephen Y

While you haven't heard about players getting flat-out cut for performance, they do in ways subtle and not. Certain transfers in search of playing time are undertaken with the understanding that not only playing time but a scholarship will be scarce in future years if the kid chooses to stick it out. St. Saban Memorial Hospital can only be pushed so far before it becomes ludicrous

chartgo[1]

…and at some point after it becomes ludicrous the NCAA notices. Every year Saban has to shuffle some kids out the door. We never know who they are because they have no leverage and they don't want to rock the boat in case South Alabama is turned off. If those players suddenly have leverage we'll find out who they are (or more likely Saban will just continue to offer one year deals; at least then people going into their Alabama experience are explicitly warned).

As to what the functional differences are between one- and four-year scholarships, that is an implementation issue I haven't seen details about. Clearly there has to be some ability for coaches to cut players who fail out or sucker-punch a hockey player somewhere other than Michigan State. What those are have not been made clear. Given this post on the Bylaw Blog, I don't think that's a problem with publicity. It seems like no one is certain of the enforcement mechanism:

Key to the Big Ten’s oversigning limit is evaluating why scholarships are ending and judging whether schools should be able to replace that student-athlete with a new recruit. The stability and homogeneousness of the Big Ten’s membership has made this workable. Whether it remains workable in a larger conference with more fluid and diverse membership is questionable. And the idea of the NCAA running such an office sounds like a trap for the Association.

Without this evaluation, the oversigning limit is meaningless because a coach can simply clear out enough scholarships for whatever size class he wants by nonrenewing more current players before signing day.

This is the current situation. In the future, John Infante suggests multi-year scholarships would reduce the need for such an office. This would be the way things play out:

To clear roster space, a coach would have to find a permissible reason to cancel a scholarship during the period of award and complete the appeal process all prior to signing day. Adding in an exception if a coach grants permission to contact every Division I institution (an “unconditional release”) or pairing this oversigning limit with a transfer rule that granted a great deal of freedom to a student-athlete whose scholarship was cancelled would complicate matters, but would also discourage more roster turnover.

That transfer bit is a great idea—when a school voluntarily terminates a player's scholarship he should be able to transfer anywhere he wants and play immediately—but the definition of "permissible reason" is left unaddressed. Presumably academic washouts are amongst those. What level of legal trouble would be? MIPs? Traffic tickets? Minor possession beefs leading to probation?

As far as Posada goes, he left of his own volition and Michigan would likely be able to get his scholarship back. If he decided to stay and take advantage of his four-year scholarship he would have to participate in team activities, something he may not want to or be capable of doing. At that point the mutually beneficial solution would be to find a medical reason he should not participate. Like "I am very heavy."

Is that a satisfactory answer? No, not really. The NCAA has a lot of issues to hammer out. Again, virtually all of this would be solved by replacing the roster maximum with a yearly cap on new scholarship players.

Personal relationship with bowls.

Brian,

With Michigan getting back to a BCS bowl this past season, I found
myself wondering about your personal stance on attending bowl games.
Considering your (justified) disdain for rich old dudes in yellow
blazers, I guess I always assumed that you avoided giving your
hard-earned cash to such operations.  I certainly could have
overlooked it, but I don't recall you discussing your attendance at
the Sugar Bowl or any other bowl game since mgoblog's inception.
Then, in a recent UV column, you stated: "I'm probably not going to Dallas this year because I can get a generic NFL stadium experience at many bowl games."

I assume this was a tongue-in-cheek comment, but I figured the long
and boring football offseason is a good time to discuss this stuff:

(1) Which bowl games (Michigan or non-Michigan) have you attended?

The only bowl I have been to is the 2007 Rose Bowl. (The one against USC that was 3-3 at halftime and then ended 32-18.)

(2) Under what circumstances, if any, would you attend a Michigan
"bowl" game?  National Championship game only (maybe only at the Rose
Bowl)?  National Semi-Final right next door at Ford Field in Detroit
(assuming the system evolves/devolves that way)?  Insight Bowl in
Tempe vs. Oklahoma (assuming you're already stuck in the desert on an
ill-fated family vacation, and tickets are $10)?

I'll be interested to hear you discuss some scenarios and your
rationale. I assume you attended, or at least really wanted to
attend, the 1998 Rose Bowl - but if you tell us you've attended every
bowl game since the mid-'90s there might be a collective "head
asplode" moment. Thanks for your work on the blog.

Nick
Washington, DC

I strongly considered going to the Sugar Bowl but the timing did not work out well. The people I usually do these things with had work issues, my wife couldn't go because she is currently an adjunct at Michigan and classes started the day after. I had the option of flying down for one full day and thought that was not a good expenditure of money and time, especially because I'm expected to put out a ton of content in the vicinity of a football game. Without those annoying restrictions I probably would have taken the opportunity to hit up New Orleans.

The Rose Bowl moves the needle. I haven't gone to many in the past because I was an idiot ('98), a child (pre-'98) or being frugal (2004, 2005) just after exiting college. In the future I'll probably go to most Rose Bowls.

I can't imagine wanting to go to any other bowl. The problem is the locations. I have created a diagram to demonstrate.

image 

(Los Angeles is debatable but the Rose Bowl is the Rose Bowl.) I'm not the kind of person who finds happiness wandering around somewhere screaming "OH MY GOD IT'S WARM." I would go to a bowl game in Denver or Santa Fe because I could pack in some skiing around it—the Frozen Four in Denver was fantastic—but there aren't any Big Ten bowls in ski destinations. Northern California is the closest place that actually has a game. Unfortunately, the Big Ten's relentless insistence on making the cities the least appealing ones possible means the bonus parts of your trip are going to Epcot Center or… uh… whatever they do in Tampa. Orson says that's do meth and strip. Tampa, Jacksonville, Orlando, and Scottsdale are the Applebees of American cities. I can't think of any reason on earth to go to Houston or Dallas. It's bad when you lose San Antonio and your bowl destinations get worse.

My ideal bowl locations are in order: Denver, San Francisco, New York, Santa Fe, [NARRATOR CONTINUES FOR HOURS], a Vietnam WAR POW prison, a Honduran prison, Guantanamo Bay, Orlando. Since available destinations will forever be non-overlapping Venn diagram circles, it's the Rose or nothing unless Michigan makes a title game or gets sucked into the Sugar Bowl again.

Am I wrong about this? Is Orlando a fun place to go? Please advise.

Retro lingo revival.

Brian,

I was reading this article about a "cyclorama" of the Battle of Gettysburg, and something caught my attention. Basically, a "cyclorama" was a giant painting (this one was four hundred feet long) displayed on the interior of a rotunda. The Gettysburg one was considered a masterpiece of the form and was hugely popular.  Naturally, that success inspired copycats:

These pirated works were known as "buckeyes," a pejorative commonly applied to things of inferior quality and, in the art world, used for painters and their works aimed at the commercial market.

Surely this excellent 19th century definition could use a 21st century revival.  For example, say you got a new phone that wasn't as good as your old phone.  Instead of saying "It's a real piece of crap", you'd say "It's a real buckeye".  Or instead of saying "my cheap sandals broke", you'd say "my buckeye sandals broke".  Bing is a buckeye, as is ESPN the Magazine, examples abound.  It'll take some getting used to, but I think we can bring this back. 

Charlie

As I was saying, the Big Ten's bowl destinations are all buckeyed up.

Comments

imafreak1

February 16th, 2012 at 3:58 PM ^

Tampa is getting a bad rap here.

In addition to the weather and the beach, Tampa has two very cool things. Cigar City Brewery and Ybor City. The hipsters amongst us may know Ybor City from the Hold Steady.

 

TrppWlbrnID

February 16th, 2012 at 3:59 PM ^

there are always little growth niches that open up. i, for one, will be starting an agency that hires out douchebag assholes to college coaches across the country, untraceable obviously. my line of asshole douchebags will sleep with certain underperforming players girlfriends, sell them drugs/steroids, remind them how unfair paying retail costs at a mall is, encourage new and creative uses of the concept of borrowing a friends xbox, etc.

thus, even those pesky four year scholarships will destroy themselves by virtue of the athlete's poor life decisions.

see you soon, coach saban!

Elise

February 16th, 2012 at 4:07 PM ^

I have to admit I really enjoyed San Antonio.  As weird as it felt in the stadium, I loved the Riverwalk.  It felt like you could spend hours just kind of roaming around without any real destination in mind, enjoying the atmosphere.  Even the Alamo had been talked down to me so much previously that I was actually surprised at how much I enjoyed it.

I could do without most of the rest of the city though... mostly a business district feeling.

wolfman7

February 16th, 2012 at 4:32 PM ^

Robbie Moore, wow.  Robbie was a rooommate of mine for a year back in our Michigan days.  To say he was colorful is understating it.  First he was all of 5-5 and 155#.  While he lacked size he was exceptionally quick in the net and fearless, constantly pushing guys out of the crease and generally harrassing any opponent who he could get to. 

When he lived in the dorm he would paint himself up to look like Alice Cooper and roam the floors.  He always , and I mean always, had beautiful girls knocking on our apartment door lookiing for him.  He was also a scratch golfer who could pound the piss out of the ball.  He was a real character and a great guy.

Yinka Double Dare

February 16th, 2012 at 4:33 PM ^

Scottsdale is fine.  We stayed for a few days this March, there's some good restaurants in the area, as well as a couple of breweries.  If you really don't want to stick around in the area there's always a trip up to Sedona or the Grand Canyon for a few days if you'd rather.  Obviously, there's lots of good golf in the area.  You can ski within a few hours of there as well.

A friend of mine from high school ended up in Orlando after finishing college.  She said that the nightlife in Orlando reminded her of Urbana/Champaign (she was a U of I grad).  A friend of hers came down there to visit and made the same comment.  It was not a compliment.  It's a family vacation destination but not at all a place most others enjoy that much.

BlueTimesTwo

February 16th, 2012 at 4:49 PM ^

The B1G needs to get an arrangement going with the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl.  Not really, but since skiing was brought up as a justification for attending I thought I would throw Boise into the mix.  Sun Valley is less than three hours away and Brundage and Tamarack are less than two hours away.  Out-of-state visitors generally go to Sun Valley, but Brundage has outstanding skiing with tons of powder and without all of the crowds of some of the big name resorts.  There is also some outstanding back country skiing for those who are more adventurous.  Nobody is going to mistake Boise for Atlanta or New Orleans, but if you love the outdoors you could do a lot worse.

I also did attend the '98 Rose Bowl, which was amazing primarily due to the NC implications.  It was kind of a pain getting around since we didn't stay in near the stadium, but it was still an amazing time.

As far as second tier bowl games go, I used to go to the Holiday Bowl in San Diego every year.  The games were often shootouts and there is plenty to do in San Diego for both families and for young single people.

Just my $.02.

Wolvermarine

February 16th, 2012 at 5:03 PM ^

Definitely agree on the bowl locations.  I went to the Sugar Bowl this year (my first bowl game), primarily because the game was in New Orleans.  I viewed it as a fun trip to a cool city with a football game (that only cost me $5), thrown in on the side.  

 

Not really sure I would make the trip to any bowl game with the game being the primary focus of that trip. 

French West Indian

February 16th, 2012 at 5:45 PM ^

Mgoblog has actually only attended one bowl ?!  Bowl games are the best part of college football.  Sheesh...maybe if more people went to the bowl games then maybe there would be less hate.  Hearing the bloggerati bitch about a lack of a playoff when they'd rather sit in front of their computers than actually participate is a major blow to their credibility.

Secondly, Detroit is always worth visiting.  And I know I'm in the minority but I would love to see the Wolverines play a game in Ford Field.

In reply to by French West Indian

echoWhiskey

February 17th, 2012 at 5:42 PM ^

Bowl games are the best part of college football?  Do you attend regular season games at Michigan very often?  I dare you to list a Michigan bowl game that you would have rather been at the the Notre Dame or OSU games this year.  

I've actually been to a few good bowl games, but unless it's the National Championship game, you can't tell me it's the "best part" of college football.

raleighwood

February 16th, 2012 at 6:20 PM ^

I've got to say that I disagree wit h Brian's list of bowl destinations.  It seems like he's making a wish list for a vacation, not a bowl game.  December 26th - January 6th should be set aside for bowl games.  The rest of the year is for vacation adventures.

First of all.......there are a lot of reasons to like Florida:

1.  It's on the East Coast which and is within reasonable driving proximity for much of the B1G footprint.

2.  Flights are typically plentiful and reasonable.  Even a bigger bonus given the short amount of time to react to bowl game travel.

3  Warm weather in December = Good

Here's my list of personal bowl cities in order of attractiveness (just events I've been to):

1.  New Orleans - What's not to like?  Decent weather.  Bourbon Street.  A casino.  I actually went down for the LSU vs. Oklahoma MNC back around '03ish.  My biggest lasting impression is that there must be a lot of plastic surgeons in Oklahoma.

2. Charlotte - The weather may not be great in December but it's centrally located on the East Coast.  It has a good airport that is a USAirways hub.  The stadium is in the city but not in the 'hood.  It's reasonable walking distance from nice hotels and bars.  Very user friendly city.

3  Jacksonville - Northern Florida isn't always warm (but it was in the 70's when Michigan was there).  Attractive (albeit limited) bar scene along the waterfront.  There are worse places to spend NYE.  We met the owner of a restaurant at The Landing and he invited us on a his boat for the night.  We didn't accept the invitation (thoughts of missing tourists running through our heads) be we did accept the multiple shots that he provided to us and his 20-something daughter and all of her friends.  The guy was from Chicago and liked Michigan.  The stadium was in the 'hood.  Worse than Charlotte, better than Orlando.

4. Orlando - We had a great time there back in '99.  Yeah, I know that MSU played in the game that year but things seemed to be a little more friendly between the fan bases back then.  I remember partying with MSU fans on NYE.  Downtown Orlando has several bars that are acceptable and festive for a three day bowl trip.  The airport is convenient.  Plenty of hotel space.  We even rented a house w/pool for the week back in '99.  The stadium is in the 'hood and not very attractive.

5  Miami -  I'm not a big fan of bowl games in Miami.  The stadium is in the middle of a neighborhood.....and not really close to any attractions.  The fans are spread out from South Beach to Fort Lauderdale.  There didn't seem to be a cohesive bowl experience in the city.  The local didn't care at all. 

 

 

markusr2007

February 16th, 2012 at 7:46 PM ^

San Diego, California should definitely be in your big pink circle, man

I wish like hell Brandon would get off his butt and sign up to a home-home series with SD State or even USD (Los Torreos, man).  

Aside from Sea World, SD Zoo, the Padres, cool beaches, WWII aircraft carriers and a nice downtown, you can always cruise the city, throw a burrito out your window at a biker on the Coronado Bay Bridge, or get into a gang fight with various San Deigo Action News Teams, or even buy new suits!  

Milk was a bad choice.

 

 

Drew Sharp

February 16th, 2012 at 8:37 PM ^

Todays jeopardy final clue was "the name of this assassin is Latin for heavy, dull, insensitive, oafish" what is..........brutus? even jeopardy knows this

elm

February 16th, 2012 at 9:24 PM ^

It has no real downtown and is completely unwalkable.  It has little in the way of cultural attractions and no real 'local' cuisine.  There is no beach anywhere near it.  The airport is horrible.

Disney World and theme parks aren't for everyone (and aren't for me), but Orlando is clearly attractive for that reason to, say, families (and those who like theme parks even without families.)  I'd put Atlanta on a par with Houston, Dallas, and Tampa and not much ahead of Jacksonville.  I also don't get Brian's hate for San Antonio.

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

February 16th, 2012 at 11:14 PM ^

You forgot how much fucking fun it is to drive anywhere in that town.  Which you have almost no choice in doing because MARTA is just this side of worthless as a train.  Atlanta is basically an eastern Houston and I really have to question Brian's judgment here in hating on San Antonio and Orlando and calling Atlanta desirable.

Like I said above, I'm down for traveling to just about anywhere.  So the city itself, for me, has no bearing on whether or not I go to a bowl game.  And there's a lot I like about Atlanta, but as a "vacation destination" it's certainly a questionable one.

umchicago

February 16th, 2012 at 9:08 PM ^

I guess if one can't ski that city sucks, eh?  How close-minded is that?

Scottsdale is a nice little town and the golf is great.

Tampa - went to the aquarium for new years, beaches, golf, got into a brawl with northwestern students.  great time.

Orlando or Miami - ya nothing there.  I don't know why millions of tourists go there each year. /s.

one must be a rather boring person to not find something fun to do in practically any american city.  every city has something uniquely cool, even it is just Crazy Jim's Blimpy Burgers.

 

JudgeMart

February 16th, 2012 at 10:21 PM ^

I totally agree with umchicago.  You can find something to do in any city if you look hard enough.  I have traveled to every city that Michigan has played a bowl game in to watch that particular game.  I've never lacked for things to do, however I must emphasize that I go to Michigan's bowl games for the game, not the surroundings.  It's nice to have other things to do there, but the game is and always will be the focus of why I'm there.  Seen some fantastic games like the 1988 Outback Bowl in Tampa, the 2000 Orange Bowl in Miami, the 1979 Rose Bowl against USC (Charles White phantom fumble) and the 1998 Rose Bowl (National Champs) and all kinds of other Michigan bowl games in between.  Win or lose, crappy city or not, I have never regretted going to any of them.

 

Picktown GoBlue

February 16th, 2012 at 10:31 PM ^

Why, yes I do.  Favorite city outside of the US.  Not sure we'll be able to get a bowl game there, though.  If they do plan one, though, make sure you look into it first before buying tickets (see Ceský sen).

From family members who've participated in some of the festivities I'd rank LA (Rose Bowl) >> Tempe/Phoenix >>> Orlando. 

UMUC

February 17th, 2012 at 12:12 AM ^

Miami is definitely worth checking out for the Orange Bowl, although my view is probably skewed because I was there for NYE 2000 in South Beach with the epic UM-Bama game the next day.  South Beach was nuts for the millenium NYE needless to say.  Probably better to go to the Orange Bowl around 'college age', as the attractions in South Beach are more suited to that demographic.  Oh, and Bama fans were awesome tailgating but extremely pissed and spewing vitriol post-game.  Guess I would have been too.  Wide Tide!

Also Brian, yes, you are an idiot for not going to the '97 Rose Bowl as a student.  Awesome.  Although I think '99 Bama Orange Bowl was a better game.  But man, 1997, my sophomore year - Football NC, Hockey NC, and hoops NIT champs to boot!  Great years to be in Ann Arbor...

Nickel

February 17th, 2012 at 12:12 PM ^

Why the hate for Florida?  Keep in mind that part of the reason for Bowl Games is supposed to be a reward for the players.  Maybe I'm wrong but I doubt too many coaches want all their star players strapping on boots and skis just days before the big game due to the risk of injury.  With beaches and amusement / theme / thrill parks that's far less of a threat.  Besides, the system already uses lower-income black kids to make money for rich white people, let's not send them to places where the main attraction is rich white people sports like skiing.

[Posted from Florida, where it's in the 70s and I can see palm trees from my window]