Mailbag: Nepotism Chances, Beilein Paranoia, Harbaugh Timing, RR Counterfactual Comment Count

Brian

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1976 Michigan Football Team

It's happening...

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Circled are Jim Hackett, 53, and Jack Harbaugh, Bo assistant

I am not putting all the eggs in the ol' basket based on this. Maybe a few.

Chances of similar nepotism catastrophe?

Well, we've just witnessed the final episode of Brady Hoke in Michigan Stadium.  It's very easy for some to feel anger at the head coach, but the more appropriate target(s?) are those responsible for elevating Hoke to a position he was incapable of executing.  Beyond the anger, are the responsible parties still in a position of influence?  Not Brandon, of course, my concern is more directed toward Schembechler Hall.  Is there a risk of essentially repeating the same mistake of another Michigan Man, albeit a more competent version?

Mark

Uh… no? We have already plucked the last fruit off the Lloyd Carr tree, such as it is, and Michigan men available are:

  • JIM HARBAUGH. Probably not a mistake.
  • LES MILES. Questionable due to age and sketch, but even so not in Hoke's galaxy as in terms of qualifications, or lack thereof.
  • NOBODY. There are no other Michigan-affiliated head coaches.

I guess Michigan could go way off the board and hire one of the near-rookie NFL coordinators who have ties, but you have to think that after the last search they would try to avoid the appearance of nepotism. I cannot say for sure, of course. Michigan could go with Harold Goodwin or Teryl Austin, because nobody knows anything about Jim Hackett.

I kind of doubt it, though. After the two obvious guys there isn't a midlevel head coach with an uninspiring record who you can just barely see as conceivable if you squint particularly hard.

Meanwhile the new president isn't a Michigan guy and seems kind of appalled by the current culture of the department; most of said department consists of Brandon-hired short-timers with no connection to Michigan. The guy dead-set on the nepotism hire has been flushed, and what are the chances Michigan hires two CEOs like… that… back to back?

Okay, okay: nonzero. But not high. If Hackett's anywhere near the meat of the bell curve the backup plan won't be hired because he knows six different places Encore Records has been.

[After THE JUMP: or where Le Dog went to]

091113-KapCoach-Header[1]

Harbaugh timing

Hi Brian,

So I've been wondering about the pros/cons of hiring a coach early vs. waiting - wouldn't it be better to sacrifice this year's recruiting class in the event that getting Harbaugh after the NFL playoffs are over is a possibility (assuming SF makes it to the postseason)? I.e. how okay would you be with a late January hire in this scenario? Obviously if you can't get Harbaugh, you're going to want to make the hire asap, but if you're Hackett and Harbaugh won't give you a straight yes/no answer until he's done at SF, what do you do?

--Alex

The best scenario is probably for San Francisco to go 10-6 and miss the playoffs in a very competitive NFC. Harbaugh is available as soon as he can be, San Francisco is unlikely to change their mind about his departure, and there's no awkward waiting.

Even if that doesn't happen, I think you have to get a firm yes or no by the beginning of January. If SF is fine with him moving on hopefully they will be fine with announcing that before the season's over. They may well be, as if reports about how the locker room hates him are true that would be a relief. "Let's all get together for the next two months and win some stuff and then we never have to see each other again," that sort of thing.

In that scenario Harbaugh's ability to recruit is going to be highly limited or even nonexistent, which is fine by me since a few phone calls probably gets Michigan back up to 8-10 kids and then whoever's left over from the Hoke staff will be able to fill in the blanks reasonably well. That would virtually guarantee Roy Manning and maybe one other position coach is on the new staff; recruiting coordinator Chris Singletary would also be a lock. (Not that I think there's much threat he gets replaced—recruiting has been the one thing the Hoke regime has done undeniably well.)

Beilein paranoia

Brian,

As we go through names and debate whether Michigan would be able to poach someone like Dan Mullen from Mississippi State or Mike Gundy from Oklahoma State, I keep coming to the conclusion that, even during their down years, there are a handful of premiere jobs like Michigan, Texas, Notre Dame, Ohio State, USC, etc. that are a notch above the rest, and that given the opportunity to go from a mid-level Big XII or SEC program to one of these, many coaches would take it.

This has gotten me freaked out because it seems that there's an equivalent of a Mississippi State or Oklahoma State to Michigan move in basketball, and it's Michigan to UNC, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky or UCLA.  Indiana may be looking for a new coach soon, and maybe UNC too if the NCAA violations continue to linger.

So my drawn out question is, do we need to be at all worried about Beilein?  Would his age rule him out for making another jump?  Is my analogy misguided?  Am I just being super paranoid?  Please tell me I'm being super paranoid.

Scott

You're being super paranoid. The bad news is that Beilein is planning on retiring in the relatively near future. He's got four or five or six years left before he calls it a day. The good news is that this means he's not going anywhere. He doesn't have any interest in spending a couple of those years doing one of his slow burn builds, and a big-time program is going to be looking for a longer-term solution than Beilein offers.

Meanwhile I question whether Michigan can poach some of those mid-level football coaches. Mullen, probably. Mississippi State is still dead last in its division when it comes to resources and always will be; Mullen has to know that he should strike while the iron is hot, because you can be a really good coach and still stumble to a handful of 7-6 seasons at MSU.

Gundy and Patterson already know they can build national contenders where they are; their situations in or next to the Texas talent mine are far less unbalanced than that faced by Mullen. They also are likely to have job security far beyond that Michigan would offer, and these days the money differences aren't particularly large. Both would have to think long and hard about whether they were going to give up a good thing for an unknown.

Beilein is not in a spot like Dan Mullen. He's in a spot like Gary Patterson, and I think it would take several pounds of C4 to dislodge him from TCU.

Walk-ons still extant?

Brian,

I read the Daily piece on Alex Mitropolous-Rundus and it reminded me of a question that has gone in and out of my head the last four (largely grueling) seasons: Did Hoke abandon RichRod's student body walk-on tryouts? I haven't read or heard a word about a tryout of that sort since Hoke arrived.

I hope that's only a product of nobody having made any significant impact on the field since Jordan Kovacs. But the fact that a Kovacs or someone even vaguely like him may possibly exist in our enormous student body every few years is more than reason enough that Hoke should be forcing a few assistants to spend a couple hours to run a tryout one Saturday a year if he's too lazy to do it himself.

There is literally no downside. If he and the coaches around him can't see that, well... I suppose it would be just one more thing to add to their List O' Buffoonery. I'm reasonably certain Carr held no such tryouts, and I'm guessing Hoke immediately abandoned them per his and Brandon's "Purge All Remnants of the Rodriguez Era" edict. 

Thanks.
-Rob, NJ

There are always student-body walkons, and since the walk-on program under Hoke has produced two solid starters in the Glasgow brothers that doesn't seem like a valid criticism. Yeah, they were preferred walk-ons. I don't think that's a distinction worth making. They are still guys brought onto the team without the (initial) expenditure of a scholarship slot.

The elder Glasgow was flipped from OSU, so they did something to emphasize that Michigan was a better place for them—something that paid off. Michigan's also brought in Bo Dever and Jack Wangler, wide receivers who might have some use down the road. Dever's already seeing playing time in the slot as a kind of replacement Dileo. (Unfortunately he cannot catch balls that glance off his fingertips.) Michigan's done fine with walk-ons under Hoke.

It's the guys with scholarships who have underperformed.

I really shouldn't answer this.

Not meaning to make comment section explode, but where do you think Michigan football would be right now had Brandon retained RR for another year with caveat that he was forced to hire a decent DC, money being no issue?

Peter, Horsham, PA

Oh man. This counterfactual is really really counterfactual. Rodriguez's recruiting had really cratered by the end, but what if he adds Casteel and runs a 3-3-5 that works-ish the next year while not, say, putting Denard Robinson under center for the Iowa game?

First: how much luck are we giving RR? Hoke's 11-2 opening campaign was ridiculously lucky, from the double-covered bombs to Hemingway to the 75% fumble recovery rate. If we're giving RR Hoke's butt-horseshoe I think Michigan has a season about as good, with the defense not quite reaching those Mattison levels and the offense not trying to do nonsense things with Denard.

I'm not sure that saves RR when Denard goes down in the middle of the next season and the OL falls off thanks to his crappy recruiting. But it's close.

Comments

antidaily

November 26th, 2014 at 1:43 PM ^

A top 20 team to go with our top 20 recruiting classes. And to compete for conference titles. Those are our expectations. And any semi-competent coach should be able to pull that off.

blusage

November 26th, 2014 at 1:45 PM ^

I'm not so sure RR would've done quite as well, with Brandon and the other program dysfunctions still swirling around him. Change, even from talented coach to new untalented, or at least as-yet-untested coach, often brings with it a revitalizing boost of morale to the team -- and fan base -- which no doubt played a significant role in the team's performance.

Ziff72

November 26th, 2014 at 1:52 PM ^

Brian, come on with that milk toast response to appease the masses and save your server. The offense with 10 returning starters would have blitzed the Big 10 to the tune of about 50pts a game.  Even if the defense didn't reach the same level as Mattison it wouldn't have mattered much.

If he had been given an extension and Brandon's support no one could accurately predict where that particular class would have ended up.  Dee Hart and Jake Fischer were committed and many other high profile guys were on the radar.  The recruiting in subsequesnt seasons should have been at Hoke levels and beyond as kids saw Denard blowing away teams every weekend.

Even if you assume Denard would have went down in his senior season, Gardner would still have been at QB and I think we can all agree he would not have looked anything what he looks right now under RR's qb friendly system.

The one argument that has not been touched on in the endless threads since his firing is the cosmic force against Michigan since Bo died.   The Big Ten essentially caved in when RR was let go. In RR's last year Wisconsin, Ohio St and Michigan St were all in the Top10.  Penn St, iowa and Illinois were solid middle of the road teams as was Northwestern.  The next year Wisconsin and Penn St moved off the schedule, Luke Fickell arrived, Big Ten generally imploded into crap over the next few years.  Wisc, MSU and OSU are back to the same levels but the rest of the league has taken a big step back.

 

 

 

Promote RichRod

November 26th, 2014 at 2:06 PM ^

It doesn't get brought up that often, but the BIG has been complete garbage 2011-forward, while it was good to great prior to 2011.  Weren't there like 3 BIG teams at 11 wins in 2009 and in the top ten or something like that?  Hard to imagine looking at today's BIG. 

My personal theory is that DB knew 2011 was setting up to be a monster year for whoever the HC was, so he wanted to install a guy and make himself look like a genius (which he did).  DB knew if he kept RR on for 2011 he would have done pretty well (possibly earning an extension/buying a few more years) and then DB never would have had the opportunity to satisy his giant ego by installing a HC.

saveferris

November 26th, 2014 at 2:14 PM ^

I think the original question didn't hit the nail squarely enough on the head.  The question that we should be asking that would explode the board is, "Would Michigan be better off right now with Rich Rodrigeuz their head coach?"  Personally, I think that answer is "yes", but does that mean we've leveled the playing field with Urban Meyer and put MSU back in the corner?  That's tougher to say.  I feel pretty comfortable saying that we're not sitting around biting our nails over whether we're going to beat Rutgers and Maryland though.

tybert

November 26th, 2014 at 2:33 PM ^

are we happy winning 1 of 4 vs. OSU and perhaps 2 of 4 or 5 vs. MSU with RR here. I think we'd resemble Nebraska under Bo more than anyone else. Good enough to get hopes up but finish 8-4, 9-3, and maybe a 10-2 once in a while.

MSU figured out our offense and I didn't see a better UM defense really making an impact if Denard and later Devin were getting slowed down by Narduzzi. 

saveferris

November 26th, 2014 at 2:42 PM ^

I'm not convinced that MSU would dominate us had Rich Rodriguez survived beyond a 3rd year.  Dantonio was 0-2 versus Rodriguez when he was at Cincinnati, so it's not like Rich's offense couldn't find a way to move the ball against a Dantonio / Narduzzi-designed defense.

Ohio State is much more problematic.

readyourguard

November 26th, 2014 at 2:19 PM ^

We fielded the worst defense in 130+ years of Michigan football, and that explosive offense everyone loves to remember sucked ass against good defenses.

MSU 20pts in 09 / 17 in '10

Iowa 28pts '09 & '10

PSU 10 & 31

Wisconsin 24 & 28

OSU 10 & 7

Every fiber in my body hates this unsubstantiated, baseless argument that RichRod would have turned the corner with another year.  The defense was atrocious and getting worse. The offense scored less points vs MSU and OSU in '10 than they did in '09 - despite his players being one year older and more experienced in the system.  NO qualified defensive coordinator was coming to Ann Arbor because they all knew RR wasn't handing over the keys to anything, including D.  That's why we had GERG for 2 years.  His options were: not work or come to A2, choke down RR's demand to run the 3-3-5 and collect a pay check.

readyourguard

November 26th, 2014 at 3:04 PM ^

What RR did at WVa or Arizona has absolutely nothing to do with what he did here in Ann Arbor.  He got his DC to come to Arizona.  If it was so important to his success (which it clearly is) he should have held off from accepting the Michigan job until he got his man. 

EDIT: I haven't once said RR was a bad coach.  I said his record at Michigan stunk on dry ice. He neglected 2 aspects of football: defense and special teams.  That falls squarely on his shoulders.

MileHighWolverine

November 26th, 2014 at 4:31 PM ^

He neglected 1 aspect, Special Teams, which continues to haunt him today and tried desperately, probably too desperately, to figure out the D. Had he statyed out of that end of it i think he would have had a better tenure here. 

But if you don't think he's a bad coach, why do you bash his record so much without mentioning the hurdles he faced? The guy failed here because of a bunch of reasons other than coaching:

1. Terrible culture that was against him from day 1 and allowed the freep disaster to happen.

2. Mass exodus of talent via graduation or transfer - only 2 guys transferred, the rest of the starting offense graduated.

3. Only given 3 years to completely overhaul the football program and start over from scratch from both style and culture perspective.

Unless anyone acknowledges these things when talking about him the only logical conclusion to make is that person feels RR was a bad coach.....which very recent evidence would suggest is not true.

I defend him because I think the biggest issue with his time here was Michigan itself and unless we take a hard look at ourselves and change the way we act, we will continue to make the same stupid mistakes over and over again and contunie languisging in mediocrity (or worse). We have massive issues to resolve before we can get to where we want to be.

Wings Of Distinction

November 27th, 2014 at 12:47 AM ^

 RR was both inept (defense) and negligent/inept (Special teams).

2/3 of the team.

The fact also remains that the time of RR was the absolute worst in history.

By contrast, the Hoke time will blend into the: 'better than some, worse than most' category.

 

At least Brady has set us back on the path after being gutted and imploded.

schreibee

November 27th, 2014 at 1:07 PM ^

We NEED to hire a coach that's right for Michigan and those other issues become unimportant. Following Lloyd we were all shocked at how every name coach didn't jump at the chance to come here. Turned down by SCHIANO Fergodsakes!

My belief is that no one ever thought Michigan could devolve the way we have in 7 years, so no real urgency was put on getting the right coach, the best coach. RR is a good coach, but even at WV, when his team had the chance to play for the NC, they put up something like 3 or 6 pts vs Pitt and got choked out.

Following RR STILL no one thought we could get even worse, so we hired a Michigan Man - as if that alone could solve the problems -  instead of the best coach we could get. I gues we ALL know now where that's gotten us!

NOW is the time to hire the BEST coach - and I honestly believe every effort will be made to get the very best coach money can buy. And that might not be enough, becuase after the past 7 years the job has gotten clearly more difficult and less secure.

 

UMaD

November 26th, 2014 at 2:39 PM ^

Points against MSU:

2010: 17

2011: 14

2012: 10

2013: 6

2014: 11

Despite the bounceback year, we haven't scored as many points as that 'sucky' 2010 offense since.

Michigan wasn't a finished product in 2010, it was a 7 win team, improved from the 5 win team the year before. It was still young, with everyone coming back.  Maybe they win 9 games, maybe they win 12. We won't know, but it was quite clearly a team on the rise.

Rodriguez hired Casteel at Arizona, so your "no one is coming to work for RR" argument is bunk.

readyourguard

November 26th, 2014 at 3:13 PM ^

A good DC would not come to Ann Arbor because the entire coaching fraternity knew he forced his last DC to run an unfamiliar defense.  Casteel is a very good DC.  He didn't come Ann Arbor.  RR screwed the pooch when he forced Shaffer to run that defense.

If the question is, would UM be in a better spot with RR at the helm along with Casteel, I'd agree 100%

Bagheera

November 26th, 2014 at 3:53 PM ^

First, 3 of the 6 were to top 15 opponents.  Second, is that really the argument you're going with?  

"Hey, even though we got obliterated by every decent team we played and lost our last two games by 68 points, we were clearly improving because we lost to Illinois in 2009 and beat them in 2010."   

UMaD

November 26th, 2014 at 4:45 PM ^

OSU (5), Wisconsin (7), MSU (14), Miss St (15)

My argument is that team, which was medicore, returned everybody and got healthy for 2011.  So it's reasonable to assume we would have improved dramatically.  Meanwhile, OSU fell apart and Wisconsin dropped off the schedule.  9 wins was the floor for the 2011 team with Rodriguez.

CalifExile

November 26th, 2014 at 5:49 PM ^

The team improved under RR each year. There is every reason to expect they would have been better in 2011. The 2010 team had a first year starter at QB. In 2011, for the first time, RR would have an experienced QB. On defense, Martin and Woolfolk recovered from injuries, Woolfolk replacing Rogers. Heininger replaced Greg Banks, Jake Ryan and Desmond Morgan replaced Ezeh and Mouton. Returning players improved, as we expect when there is decent coaching, and the new starters were improvements over the players they replaced.

When you talk about a "team on the rise" you aren't just looking at one year, you look at the program over a period of years. RR improved every year and would have improved the team further in 2011 if DB hadn't destroyed the program by firing RR and hiring Hoke.

snarling wolverine

November 26th, 2014 at 4:59 PM ^

In B1G play, that "clear rise" wasn't so clear: 2-6, 1-7 and 3-5.  

Moreover, our few conference wins under RichRod were generally narrow escapes while the losses were frequently ass-kickings.  In 2010 our three wins were by a total of 20 points and five losses by 84 points.

Basically, all the improvement we made occurred in September, out of conference.  We started out 4-0 in 2009 and 5-0 in 2010.  Then we got into the heart of league play and everything fell apart.  We finished 1-7 in '08, 1-7 in '09, and 2-6 in '10.

 

 

tybert

November 26th, 2014 at 2:42 PM ^

Mirror images each time.

RR's D couldn't get off the field vs. Wisky (the 2nd half was bad enough with Wisky throwing 1 pass and still scoring 24 points) - even though our offense scored 28 in the 2nd half after being down 24-0.

Brady's O couldn't stay on the field last weekend even though the D was decent (till it choked on the last few drives). Like RR tried to force feed 3-3-5, Brady chose to force-feed pocket Devin. 

BOTH teams made awful special teams plays.

RR's 3-3-5 "sort of" works but not great at Zona. PAC 12 is wide open offenses except for Stanford which is now 6-5 BTW, If Todd Graham (my post-Harbaugh hope at Michigan) smokes RR's D again this weekend, we'll know that RR has done well but probably peaked at 9-3 for a while. 

Wisky, MSU, OSU, etc. just ran over and thru us with the 3-3-5. Didn't see that changing going forward.

p.s. I've always wondered WHAT IF RR had let Shafer run HIS style of D and focused only on offense. Could the 2009-10 teams been good enough on D not to get wasted by the Zooker, Danny Dope, U-MASS, McGloin, etc. 

M-Dog

November 26th, 2014 at 2:59 PM ^

There's a lot of revisionist history going on with RichRod.

RichRod was let go for the same reason that Hoke will be let go.  Not because we don't think the team is making some strides and will probably be better next year, but because there is no line of sight that he will consistently be able to beat OSU or MSU and win Big Ten Championships.

RR's defense sucked - because of the way he approached defense as an afterthought - and his offense disappeared against elite teams.  His weak defense also put unnecessary pressure on his offense.

Hoke has the same problem in reverse, he treats offense as an afterthought - "I meet with Doug on Tuesdays" - and his defense fades against elite teams when he needs a stop.  His weak offense also puts unnecessary pressure on his defense.

OK, so every coach has his bias.  They all worked mostly on one side of the ball or the other.  But the next guy has to be the head coach . . . not the head OC like RR or the head DL coach like Hoke.  He has to own and embrace all three phases of the game.