Mailbag: Long Discussion Of Brandon Email Post, DANTONIOAD, Turnovers Comment Count

Brian

[ED: Hey guys! Ace is looking for a few good questions for a basketball season preview mailbag. Hit him up at [email protected].]

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Meta-response about yesterday's post.

[ED: I normally hack out praise from these emails in an effort to be as concise as possible but it was not possible to do so here without making bronx sound like a jerk.]

Hey Brian,

I've been trying to think of a better way to ask this, but I can't so I'll just come out with it:

What is/was your goal with reporting about the Brandon emails? 

Man, yeah, that comes across as condescending.  Let me try to explain.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be given their due. and I respect the hell out of you and Ace putting in the effort to figure out their veracity; count me in the camp of people who doubted WD's initial post due to the inconsistencies in his story.  Following through on the story and backing it up with multiple sources is the type of reporting you don't expect to see from a "fan" site, and yet you guys did better work than I've seen in a long time from more established media members in the community.  Heck, it's basically you guys and the Daily kicking ass in that department.

But once the dust settles, how do you see this information positively or negatively affecting the program going forward?  I've made my feelings known about Brandon and how, frankly, this really shouldn't accelerate his removal (I mean, if his handling of Gibbons, Morris, ticket prices, attendance, stadium experience, alumni relations, coaching snafus, losing, etc. doesn't do him in but bitchy emails do I'll be a bit disappointed in the administration for needing something so trivial to move them to action), but I honestly want to know your take.  Do you think the fan's role in the turmoil surrounding the program, now being given a wider public forum by your site than in the past, will ultimately hurt its recovery going forward? 

For example, you mentioned in your podcast that fans' habits can be broken quickly and it can take a generation to get them back.  You and Ace seem to think that Brandon and Hoke coming back would lead to an exodus, but are you worried that the level of vitriol displayed by the fans already shows the pivot point already happened, and that everything from this point on is just piling on and driving even more fans away?  Personally, I'm less and less excited to follow this team even this year because it is just a clown show made worse by the negative tone so many fans seem to hold toward it.  My Facebook feed is full of people linking to articles calling for Hoke an co. to be booted (many to mgoblog), and lots of them were moderately-sane fans before the last couple of years.  I'm not saying you and the site are to blame for any of it; you are just reporting and commenting on the shit show being trotted out every week.  But do you think we'll look back in a couple of years and wonder if too much gas was thrown on the fire?

And again, I'm conflicted even asking this, because you guys have a duty to ferret out these idiots and bring them to the public's eye, and you do a great job at capturing the Michigan zeitgeist effectively.  But there's just such a toxic culture around the program, and I wonder even if they get some homerun hires (which I'm a bit dubious about), if some of this damage will linger. 

Anyway, feel free to respond however you want; if part of this makes its way into a mailbag or something then by all means out me and respond how you wish.  I'm fine with it.  I honestly just want to know.

Thanks.

-BronxBlue

I made a decision to let the original Have A Happy Life email stand—in fact I made a decision to re-instate it after one of the mods pulled it 200 comments deep—and from there things proceeded inexorably to yesterday's post.

I let it stand because I thought it was true.

[After THE JUMP: a full run-down of the decision to run with this story and evaluation about whether this was in error.]

As I said in the post, over the past few years about two dozen different people have emailed me their interactions with Brandon. The purported Brandon consistently overused ellipses and exclamation points. Most emails had that arrogant tone, sometimes subtle, sometimes not. There was no way all these different people were snowing me, especially early on when we were just somewhat cranky with Brandon.

The first burst of these came after Brandon broached the possibility of moving the OSU-M game to midseason in a WTKA interview. Brandon got a lot of emails about how that was a very bad idea and responded to them like so…

image

…at the time emailers generally said "this guy is kind of a jerk" and let it drop; I did too. But I knew that this was a thing, as did a lot of people I talked to. I have a dozen more of these after yesterday.

I've let my internet spidey sense guide me for my career here and it's served me well—if you seek a popular blog, look around you. I went with it here, and then a few things happened.

  1. An Olbermann staffer found it and got it on freakin' ESPN. ESPN actually credited us on TV, to which my response was "Oh no. Oh no no no no."
  2. A skeptical MGoBlog user submitted an FOIA specifically tailored to return this result and got nothing. This caused a maelstrom of recriminations for Wolverine Devotee, whose only crime is purchasing Michigan alternate jerseys.
  3. I found out that there was a very good reason this FOIA was not likely to return a response, as detailed in the post.
  4. I felt the FOIA response was tactical. I had FOIAs pending at the time, filed before the MGoBlog user filed his. The U took the absolute maximum time allotted to respond to them, and when I filed a FOIA request in summer of 2013 that was similarly non-responsive they again took the maximum amount of time. The quick response to his request felt like selective efficiency designed to release information they desired to release, and this made me even more certain of the email's legitimacy.
  5. A second, detailed email chain was provided to me by another reader.

So now we're in a situation where we've been credited nationally for something that might be bunk but probably isn't bunk and thanks to the multiple emails we can confirm or disconfirm with great confidence. Plus there is the strong, false implication that the thing is bunk provided by the nonresponsive FOIA request.

At that point there is really no decision about whether to go forward or not, especially after Ace did yeoman work to actually track down the original Have A Nice Life post with headers and all. It was my call to let the original post stand, so now I have a responsibility to follow that through.

The one thing we can absolutely not afford is to be wrong, or even perceived as wrong, about anything. It is so much worse for us than a larger outlet. If we had published something like the Oklahoma State expose, we would be done. Doomed. If something is news-ish from us it cannot be sort of news-ish, it has to be ironclad. This is why the site's rumor reporting has always gone with the maximum amount of transparency possible—that's the closest thing to iron we've got in those situations.

We have solid, newsworthy information that we need to disclose. The only thing that would have prevented us from talking in this situation would be if the release of the information was damaging to a student-athlete, a private citizen, or the department.

I do not consider Dave Brandon the department. If Dave Brandon is fired and replaced nothing we published affects Michigan one iota. It is my opinion that Dave Brandon leaving would be a great boon for Michigan. That's not why I published, but it is why I didn't hold my tongue like I had for the previous three years.

To answer the questions above directly:

What is/was your goal with reporting about the Brandon emails? 

To confirm something that had been reported as Reported By Us, and vindicate a guy who was right in the first place. And to publish something newsworthy.

Once the dust settles, how do you see this information positively or negatively affecting the program going forward? 

If Brandon is replaced it does not affect the program. If Brandon is kept it probably sucks out a few more ticket holders.

Do you think the fan's role in the turmoil surrounding the program, now being given a wider public forum by your site than in the past, will ultimately hurt its recovery going forward? 

I reject the notion that the fans have any role in the "turmoil" except as people responding to said turmoil. The fans did not go 2-11 against Ohio State and 1-6 against Michigan State over the last X years. The fans did not leave Shane Morris on the field—the fans actually urged Michigan to take him off. The fans did not botch the aftermath of the Morris incident such that it led national news for almost a week.

All of that is orders of magnitude more damaging to the program than anything a fan will ever say.

And anyway Michigan fans have in fact been super patient. How many other programs going through this fallow period would have put 113,000 in the stands for a game everyone knew was going to be a dud? Look at how much money we are providing relative to performance, with this home schedule and this team.

The idea that Michigan fans are somehow worse than other fanbases is ridiculous. I did This Week In Schadefreude for years. Michigan is nowhere near the most volatile fanbase. We care our asses off; spinning that as a negative is backwards.

You and Ace seem to think that Brandon and Hoke coming back would lead to an exodus, but are you worried that the level of vitriol displayed by the fans already shows the pivot point already happened, and that everything from this point on is just piling on and driving even more fans away?

This question seems to assert that fans complaining about the degraded state of the program is why fans are discontent. Again, if that is impacting Michigan negatively the size of that effect is dwarfed by the losing and inept PR provided by its leadership. This is a response to the things negatively impacting the program.

If the guy negatively impacting the entire University's public image is removed, the fans immediately get hopeful and happy. That's how this works.

Do you think we'll look back in a couple of years and wonder if too much gas was thrown on the fire?

No. Fans want Brandon out. As soon as Brandon goes, the fire goes. At this point the most damaging thing possible is Brandon's retention.

-------------------------------

Amongst the copious positive feedback from yesterday there was the occasional comparison of our decision to publish Brandon's emails to stretchgate, including a hilarious thread on Rivals calling for a boycott of this here site.

This kind of response comes from a fear that publishing the way we do hurts the program. I don't think that's true. I think the program hurts the program. The reaction yesterday indicates that the great majority of the fanbase is with us, and we stand by our decision.

I'll talk about this more later but when we do get significant pushback we change our tack. I got a lot of concerned reactions to the idea of a Maryland boycott and I'm dropping that idea. Yes, even if Brandon is still in place. I misjudged what an appropriate response would look like there.

I've gotten zero indication that's the case here—even that Rivals thread quickly turned into a bunch of people bombing the few proponents. If we err, we own it; this is not an error.

Harbaugh precedent?

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ain't no precedent for an NFL coach wearing google glass neither

Hello MGoBlog,

I can't think of a single example of a successful NFL head coach who left the league to take a college job (e.g., an NFL coach who had a winning record one season and then coached in college the next season).

Would a Harbaugh-to-Michigan move after this season be literally unprecedented?

Mitch Price

Seattle, WA

I think so. Help me out, hivemind, but I could not find a single instance of a successful NFL coach leaving his job for college. There have been a few instances where guys bail on the NFL:

  • Bobby Petrino ditched the Falcons at the tail end of their season after going 3-10 in his first year
  • Nick Saban did leave the Dolphins after two years without getting axed. He was 6-10 in his second year.
  • Steve Spurrier resigned after two years in Washington, took a year off, and then took the South Carolina job.
    That appears to be the full list of NFL head coaches who voluntarily returned to college.

So it would  be unprecedented for an NFL coach who seems like a good NFL coach to go back to college. But Harbaugh is an unprecedented guy in a lot of ways. How many coaches coming off back-to-back-to-back conference championship game appearances are dogged by constant rumors he's out the door no matter what?

There are college guys and there are NFL guys; Michigan is hoping that their guy is a college guy who happens to also be a great NFL coach until people get tired of him.

Turnover stuff

I know that you ascribe turnovers to randomness, but do you think that it feeds itself? Not getting turnovers leads to not looking for turnovers or trying to create turnovers?  It feels like our DB's don't even look to pick things off over the middle - rather they are looking to "bring the wood".

Nate

That's not entirely true. I ascribe fumble recovery rates to luck. This was a position of some controversy after Michigan picked up 74% of the fumbles that hit the ground in 2011, fueling Michigan's stunning defensive turnaround that year. Michigan has not come anywhere close to repeating that feat. The last three years they were/are at 51%, 61%, and 40%. There is no repeatability to fumble recoveries.

Turnovers in general are pretty random just because they're low probability events, but anyone who's watched football knows that hitting people hard and getting pressure on the quarterback are reliable ways to force TOs; having a young quarterback is a reliable way to cough 'em up. College teams have so much turnover from year to year that TO rates tend to have very low repeatability.

Phil Steele uses TOs to predict up-and-downswings from teams annually. He has good success predicting that teams who suffered a huge negative TO margin will improve. If turnovers were repeatable year to year that strategy would backfire.

But anyway, the question: I think that Michigan's lack of TOs forced this year is a combination of bad, predictable coverage in the secondary and bad luck. It's hard to force an interception when the QB is rifling it to a wide open first read. You can't apply pressure to the QB and you can't, like, cover the guy he's throwing to. Michigan has not forced many throws into tight windows. Coverage across the middle has been particularly nonexistent, and that is an area of the field a lot of coaches fear to go because dangers lurk therein.

I don't think it piles on itself; I think it's just an effect of not being very good.

DANTONIOAD

Hey Brian and Ace,

I've figured out why people think Dantonio's reaction to the spike was cool and good.

Listen, run the score up or don't. As people have repeated ad nauseam, "it ain't Dernternier's jerb to sterp his term!" That's fine as far it goes. And I also understand that beating Michigan and feeding red meat to the fanbase are each about 45% of his job.

But why do people think it's cool that he got so offended by the lesser team's dumb motivational ploy? Why do people think this is how an adult who makes millions of dollars a year should behave?

It's actually quite simp . . . ALL HAIL THE HYPNOTOAD!

Best,

Tom in DC

It is cool that he got offended by the lesser team's motivational ploy because Dantonio's never ending torrent of anger has made Michigan State as good as they've been since the 1960s.

This is not how an adult who makes millions of dollars a year should behave, but football coaches are not expected to be adults. See: Bo, Woody, etc. Football coaches are expected to be high-functioning lunatics.

Here is a DANTONIOAD anyway.

Hypnotonio

Seth Fisher

You now feel a need to apologize for anything you have ever done that might offend Mark Dantonio, which is everything.

Why haven't we fired him yet?

Brian,

Why is Brady Hoke still the Michigan football coach this morning? While there may be a dearth of promising interim options, what benefit is there to keeping a clearly inept and doomed coach at the helm? The current players cannot be enjoying this, they are not improving, and they may not really care anymore. Further, no recruit currently committed to UM can realistically think Hoke will be still be here after December, and no un-committed or once-committed prospect is likely swayed that the program is heading somewhere good while Hoke persists as the "I think I was aware that something happened, but I'm not fully aware" guy.

Shouldn't Michigan create an opening right now, post it on the job board, and begin rounding up all the lucre it needs for Jim Harbaugh or someone else sufficient for the task at hand? Even if David Brandon is also headed for a career change, doesn't officially firing Hoke free up more permanent forces--boosters, donors, Jesus--to work on a football regime change?

Joey

The benefits of firing Hoke now are dubious because of the AD situation, and because search firms exist. If anyone at Michigan has their business right, they're already gauging possible candidates.

Letting Hoke stay on does provide some fringe recruiting benefits—they're still out there visiting places, trying to get guys in, offering the occasional in-state three star. Letting him go out on his own terms instead of roughly pulling the plug will help soften the blow for the players on the team, who are universally said to like Hoke. Midseason firings are mostly reserved for coaches who are loathed by their team (see Weis, Charlie) for a reason. If the players feel that Michigan did Hoke wrong they might be more inclined to transfer.

I don't think it matters much either way but after the initial flush of post-Morris anger I've come to accept that keeping Hoke on until the end of the season is the right move. I would still give him his walking papers before OSU on the off chance there's a miracle that muddies the waters.

Comments

petered0518

October 29th, 2014 at 1:52 PM ^

Personally one of the things that I am enjoying the most is how juvenile DB's writing style is. Maybe I need to voice my displeasure in a way that he would understand:

Hey Dave....thanks for sharing about the "miscommunications" over the noodle, seat cushions, cokes, Shane Morris incident, etc. So much misinformation!! It is just that...your incredibly blatant disregard for the fanbase is wearing a bit thin, we can only take so much!!!!!

Thanks for the "e-mail" and I hope you have a nice life......doing something other than ruining my beloved Michigan Wolverines.

Yostbound and Down

October 29th, 2014 at 1:52 PM ^

He didn't return voluntarily, either time, but Dennis Erickson would be someone that was fairly successful at coaching both NFL and college, although much more with the Seahawks than Niners, and he was pretty much replacement level overall. Very successful (and mercenary, he never sticks anywhere for long) in college. Brian, you're right though about Harbaugh, he might be the only one to reach the levels of success in both sports.

The Brandon emails continue to surprise me. You should pretty much never respond to any fan that leaves a voicemail/email/letter for you criticizing your decisions. There's also no need to be paternalistic and condescending towards the fanbase. The old maxim of if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all, is probably the best path for an AD here, because unless you have an opportunity to really explain your decisions face to face, written communication will usually come short in describing your thoughts. Especially when you are snarky and sarcastic.

Honestly it seems like he's the one drinking, if he's up at 1 AM doing this. Poor Mrs. Brandon.

westwardwolverine

October 29th, 2014 at 1:53 PM ^

Man the email in this is worse than any of the emails published yesterday. 

The guy is clueless. He has no idea how to deal with people. 

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

October 29th, 2014 at 1:56 PM ^

There is in fact one example of a winning NFL coach leaving voluntarily for college: Al Groh.  He coached the Jets to one 9-7 season before leaving for UVA.

Successful NFL coach?  Up to the reader to decide.  But there is your one example of a coach who had a winning NFL record one year and was in college the next.

Mon-L

October 29th, 2014 at 1:59 PM ^

I think this kind of reporting is absolutely necessary. It doesn't help the program to have a condescending douchebag running things.

The most important part of Brandon's job is keeping the Big House full. And here's the AD going out of his way to insult season ticket holders and offering to pull their seats. He does not care one bit about fan retention.

This is the opposite of how Don Canham would have done things.

There is no benefit to "protecting" the program. Intense scrutiny is actual a huge benefit. It helps root out problems. 

jmdblue

October 29th, 2014 at 2:27 PM ^

Hoke is not a lunatic... high functioning or otherwise.  Bo and Woody were, with Bo clearly having greater self control and a sounder worldview than his mentor. Jim Harbaugh is a lunatic.  He seems somewhere between Bo and Woody.  I don't think Harbaugh would send his boys out to destory another teams banner or punch a kid after an interception, but we already know he'll try for 2 when he can't go for 3.  I'm guessing Harbaugh will not have a cordial relationship with Dantonio.  Little Brother?  Yeah that's you.  What of it?  As for Urbz I think there may be some less-than-cordial interaction during handshake time.  We need Jim Harbaugh.

Brown Bear

October 29th, 2014 at 2:39 PM ^

Not post worthy but I ran into a M legend from the Carr era today in Chicago and he said Jim Harbaugh will be the next coach. It was enough for me to convince myself it will happen. /science



Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

UMichMSW07

October 29th, 2014 at 3:34 PM ^

the Friday before the Penn State game, I had the pleasure and honor to sit next to a former Michigan football player from the mid eighties who played with Jim Harbaugh. After sitting with him for about an hour through dinner, I decided to ask him if he thought it was a possibility that Jim would coach at Michigan next year. He flat out told me yes, he believe Jim will be our next football coach. This former player told me that he still keeps in touch with Jim to this day. I guess anything can happen but he sounded pretty confident.

Jonesy

October 29th, 2014 at 2:42 PM ^

Nothing wrong with angry fans, it's when they go beyond angry and become apathetic that it's a problem.  Angry fans want things fixed so things can go back to how they like them to be, apathetic fans aren't engaged anymore and don't come back.

west2

October 29th, 2014 at 2:46 PM ^

that someone in DBs position and all that that encompasses would write an email such as that.  I could possibly sort of understand having an attitude towards younger fans/alums and students but not to peers or anyone over the age of 30.  Its the only reason I would doubt the authenticity of the email, as it just seems so uncharacteristic of someone thats an AD at a major university to be that careless.

bjk

October 29th, 2014 at 4:50 PM ^

Or maybe not.

In the name of fairness, I might as well make a public show of my side of the interaction. (This was before RR's third year, when DB's main datapoint was the response to the Freep jihad. Four years later, Michael Rosenberg is in Hoke's office for a one-on-one interview, so, yeah, perspectives change. Not to get off-track.)

This is the full exchange, edited to minimize outage (of me; this is of course in reverse order):

From: Brandon, David A.
Date: Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 11:19 PM
Subject: RE: The Game.
To: [redact]

Thanks, Brad….

I don’t blame you for thinking like a fan….you are one!

However, I am thinking like a guy who was a part of three Michigan – OSU games during the Bo vs. Woody 10 year war….when we won one…lost one….and tied one! I was a high school senior recruit sitting on the field for the 1969 upset victory in Bo’s first year. I GET IT!!!!! I find is fascinating how many fans want to explain to me the importance of this game!!

Now I am our A.D. fighting for the very best deal I can get for our university. I promise I am!!

You take care…and Go Blue!

Dave

From: [redact]
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 11:09 PM
To: Brandon, David A.
Subject: Re: The Game.

I was thinking like a fan, not a negotiator or decision-maker. Forgive my naive arrogance. I do believe you are the best man for this job, and I trust you would never forget who we are.

If decisions have not been made, that is the best news I have heard yet. I will hang tight and stand behind you. We need you.

Go Blue. -- bjk.

On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Brandon, David A. wrote:

Brad,

Keep the faith….you have reached your conclusion before you know any facts or before any decisions have been made.

If I thought screaming was the way to get everything we want….I would scream. Perhaps that is how you get things done in your line of work.

However, in my line of work….I am dealing with 11 other A.D.’s….12 Presidents….and a building full of Conference Officials. Screaming and appearing selfish is not a great way to create a lot of success!

Just relax and understand I am doing the best I can….under some challenging circumstances.

Go Blue.

Dave

From: [redact]
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 3:48 PM
To: Brandon, David A.
Subject: The Game.

From what I'm hearing, there is talk of relegating The Game to a cross-division game sometime during baseball season.

Historically, there are two ways to steer a tradition and Franchise into and through the division era. One is the way the Iron Bowl was handled by the SEC, the other is the way Nebraska-Oklahoma was handled by the B-12.

Apparently, The Game is headed the way of Nebraska-Oklahoma. The Big Ten is set to eliminate or trivialize college football's most important rivalry and the heart and soul of the season of two of its most storied teams.

I can't imagine what kind of argument could make a sound businessman think that this is a good idea, least of all economically. Maybe there's been too MUCH discussion, by the time this sounds like a good idea. Once UM and OSU are stripped of their biggest tradition and reduced to just two more non-paying warm-up teams for the NFL, the hemorrhage of dollars will follow the hemorrhage of support, interest and fan involvement. A once-a-decade meeting in a sterile commercial environment does not compensate for this loss in any meaningful way.

If you want to be remembered as a great AD, FIGHT for The Game on the last Saturday of the season at the Big House or the Shoe. (Third Saturday of November with kids home for Thanksgiving would be better.)

So far, you've won me over as AD, except . . .

I can't believe you aren't the one screaming loudest about this travesty. If The Game isn't worth saving, I have trouble imagining what else is left. Not even money -- you will be destroying the most valuable property the Big Ten has.

Well, that's what I think. Thanks for listening. Respectfully -- [redact]

MGolem

October 29th, 2014 at 5:24 PM ^

coffin nailer, you and many others. Thanks for adding this. Dude was being a dick whilst you were heaping praise on him. I guess your praise wasn't obvious enough.  

Knowing my temper I am glad I never sent him any email or you would have seen me on the news; although, I suppose that may have solved this problem for everyone else.

Sac Fly

October 29th, 2014 at 3:40 PM ^

Hitting Dave Brandon where it hurts, in the wallet, is the final straw.

To this point nothing has pressured the AD like the donors backing out. Not your kickoff boycott. Not your 2000 "Fire Dave Brandon" Shirts, or a chant at the football game. Now that it's starting to become a financial issue, he can't be kept.

deepfunk1

October 29th, 2014 at 3:54 PM ^

I've always read good stuff here but have never actually created an account or made a comment.  While perusing the Rivals network yesterday, I read with amazement a call for a total boycott of this here Blog. That convinced me it was time to sign up here.



Essentially the poster's argument was that MGoBlog is simultaneously nitpicking and piledriving the University's good name for no good reason. The poster argued that there was enough bad news out there about the program, and that Brian & crew were not only the equivalent of the Freep during Stretchgate, they were using attacks on Brandon as a means to elevate Brian to Regency. 

When I started a separate thread articulating the simple fact that Brandon is responsible for his alienation of fans and the colossal series of PR blunders that have brought the program to arguably an all-time low,  the poster actually claimed that I -- like Brian, Ace & crew in his opinion -- really "enjoyed" delivering "black eyes" to the University.  This goof is actually arguing that MGoBlog is traitorous.   I really do hope to hear more from Brian & crew about the absurdity of this, and possibly a more in-depth refutation of the poster's oddly insistent Tool-of-the-Regency claim. 

MGoUberBlue

October 29th, 2014 at 3:55 PM ^

The guy purportedly works very late hours, which is common for executives in large organizations.  It makes no sense for a well respected high official of a large organization to make those email comments unless he is a little buzzed and feeling his oats, if you know what I mean.

We enjoy long cocktail hours in my house and the rule is to never hit the keyboard after pounding down the usual amount of alcohol.

Brodie

October 29th, 2014 at 4:02 PM ^

Brian seems to be discounting coaches who were fired by NFL teams, perhaps fairly, but some of those guys were reasonably successful and probably could have found pro gigs. Dave Wannstedt was had one losing season with the Dolphins, having won 10 games+ three times in a loaded AFC East before going to Pitt.

BradP

October 29th, 2014 at 4:44 PM ^

Has Bronxblue ever sent you an email asking why you write UFRs or UVs? 

Couch it in whatever flattery he likes, its still a loaded question that read, in short, "What do you want to get out of taking shots at Brandon?"

bronxblue

October 29th, 2014 at 5:11 PM ^

Well, UFRs and UVs tend to be more analysis or discussion about college football generally; that letter segment had to do with a very specific person at the University, one who is already under immense fire for being a dumbass.

It absolutely was a loaded question, and I own up to it.  It kinda had to be, because I was asking Brian how he felt these ongoing revelations, and the more general vitriol that has been turned on the Michigan athletic director, would affect the organization going forward.  He answered truthfully, and even if I don't agree 100% I'm happy he answered it honestly.  I wasn't asking to trip him up or to prove a point, and the only couching I did was to make sure he understood I respected what he wrote and the effort he put in.  

m1jjb00

October 29th, 2014 at 6:27 PM ^

I think there's a broader point in Bronx Blue.

Let's face it.  This fanbase gets worked up about a lot of stuff, others kind of laugh at.  These things can get in the way.  Even in good times, there's a simmering level of drama going on.  For instance, consider stakegate. Most other fanbases wouldn't care at all, and you wouldn't hear about it.

But, at the end of the day, there are three points:

1.  It's who we are.   Some of that is good; some of that works against us.  But leadership has to act taking that into account and try to avoid it unless eggs absolutely must be broken.   It's part of Brandon's arrogance that he went the opposite way, and that's his downfall.

2.  By now, yeah our fanbase is very worked up.  It's toxic.  But who's fault is it?  What are you going to do, fire the fanbase?  As Brian said, in this case, it both needs to be fixed and is easy to fix.  

3.  Where I think we need to draw the line and push back on some of the fans is when it gets in the way of winning.  Insisting on a Michigan Man as head coach is the thing that I'm concerned about.

BBA1993

October 29th, 2014 at 7:59 PM ^

Since NFL-AFL merger, there have been seven cases of NFL HCs leaving their teams specifically to move to a college HC position (years referenced are the season when the coach started the college job):

 

Lou Saban left the Bills for Maryland in 1966

Dan Devine left the Packers for Notre Dame in 1975

Chuck Fairbanks left the Pats for Colorado in 1979

Ray Perkins left the Giants for Bama in 1983

Al Groh left the Jets for Virginia in 2001

Nick Saban left the Dolphins for Bama in 2007

Bobby Petrino left the Falcons for Arkansas in 2008

There are also eight cases where an NFL head coach was fired/resigned without a gig lined up and wound up coaching at a major college program the next year:

Lou Holtz (Jets/Arkansas/1977)

Lou Saban (Bills/Miami/1977)

Gene Stallings (Cardinals/Bama/1990)

June Jones (Chargers/Hawaii/1999)

Dennis Erickson (Seahawks/Oregon St./1999)

Bill Callahan (Raiders/Nebraska/2004)

Dave Wannstedt (Dolphins/Pitt/2005)

Lane Kiffin (Raiders/Tennessee/2009)

In every other instance the NFL HC either took a year or more off or spent time as an NFL assistant before jumping to a college HC role.

Fairbanks would be the far most comparable situation to Jim Harbaugh as he was feuding with the Sullivan family and had some really good teams in NE.

Perkins, Stallings, Wannstedt and Groh were all alums going home. Perkins was following Bear Bryant. Stallings and Wannstedt were the best available candidates at the time with university ties. Groh somewhat bailed due to regime change with the Jets (Woody Johnson had just bought the franchise from Leon Hess, Bill Parcells was on the outs) and lucked out that George Welsh happened to retire at the right time.

Devine was a finalist for the ND job in 1964 and was in trouble with the Packers due to "not Lombardi" and a disastrous trade with the Rams for a washed up John Hadl. The ND job coming open was a real savior for him.

All of the rest except for the Lou Saban moves were just guys getting a better situation in college than what they could find in the NFL.

Lou Saban was a piece of work. Read his bio sometime. Wow. Nick Saban is a distant relative - you can see where he gets it.

2manylincs

October 30th, 2014 at 4:19 PM ^

but i haven't found an appropriate forum to ask the question.

with Jeff Long of Arkansas being thrown out as a possible AD candidate, does his role as head of the new playoff committee play any role?

I have no idea when an AD is busy and when he/ she is not?

is this a busy time?

how much responsibility does this committee add?

does this eliminate him from consideration?