Mailbag: Of The Half-Decade, Demonic Button, Clock Malfeasance, Staff Composition Comment Count

Brian

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[Bryan Fuller]

Of The Decade update

Hi Brian,

Back in 2010, you gave us your "of the decade" team.  If five years later, you had to make another one (with this year crucially being the last year to include players from the 2006 team), who would you put on it?   And how many players from this year's squad would be included?

Thanks,

Ben.

The Of The Decade team from 2010 versus a hypothetical 2006-2015 team:

2001-2010 POSITION 2006-2015
John Navarre '03 QB Denard Robinson '10
Chris Perry '03 RB Mike Hart '06
Kevin Dudley '04 FB Joe Kerridge '14
Braylon Edwards, whenever WR Devin Funchess '13
Mario Manningham '07 WR Manningham
Steve Breaston '06 WR Breaston
Bennie Joppru '02 TE Jake Butt '15
Jake Long '07 OT Long
Steve Hutchinson '00 OG Steve Schilling '10
David Baas '04 C David Molk '11
Jon Goodwin '01 OG Michael Schofield '12
Jeff Backus '00 OT Taylor Lewan '11
Brandon Graham '09 DE Graham
Lamarr Woodley '06 DE Woodley
Alan Branch '06 DT Branch
Gabe Watson '05 DT Mike Martin '11
David Harris '06 LB Harris
Larry Foote '01 LB Jake Ryan '12
Victor Hobson '02 LB Desmond Morgan '15
Marlin Jackson '02 CB Jourdan Lewis '15
Leon Hall '06 CB Hall
Jamar Adams '07 S Jabrill Peppers '15
Julius Curry '00 S Jordan Kovacs '12
Garrett Rivas '06 K Rivas
Zoltan Mesko '09 P Mesko

I've got four guys on there from this year's team, three of whom I assume are pretty obvious. Without a true nickel spot on the Of The Decade team Peppers is a bit of an awkward fit, but I mean cumong man. If I expanded the team to have a nickel, which I will definitely do in the future, he'd be it and Jarrod Wilson would slide into his spot. So 5-ish.

Desmond Morgan, you ask? The pickings are not great at linebacker over the past decade. The only eligible guy from the backups on the '10 team is Shawn Crable, and while Crable was a freelance sower of havoc he's competing with Jake Ryan, not Morgan. Morgan is one of the most sneaky-good players in the recent history of the program (and I'm through most of the first half against Indiana and he is doing really well in tough situations).

This year's team would have even more spots if that defensive line wasn't rough to get on. That's four guys with long NFL careers and dominant senior years.

Hey Brian,

Beyond the interpretation problems, have you given any thought to the enforcement process for targeting calls?

Not exactly an analogous comparison, but a thought - treat targeting calls more as a yellow card than a red card. More to the point, don't throw guys out in the moment on these judgment calls - refer questionable hits to the referees' office, let them have a look at it during the week, and decide if a future suspension is warranted, The NFL reviews plays for fines all the time so I don't see how this is much different. You'd think time and centralization make the enforcement more thoughtful and consistent, and thereby allow coaches to better correct their players.

Inherent in this solution is separating targeting from a personal foul, so you can still throw a flag for 15 yards on outlawed hits without necessarily an ejection. You still get some bad PF calls/no calls, but we've always lived with those - egregious ejections not so much. If you wanted there could be an accumulation component, which is also like yellow cards, so if you have a guy dishing out repeated borderline hits it's an automatic suspension at some point. Seems to strike a much better balance and still emphasize safety.

Anyway, sorry this is long. Curious if you've had thoughts of your own on this.

-Mike in DC

If they do centralize the review process instead of delegating it to a varying selection of potential incompetents I think a lot of the inconsistencies go away. I don't think many of the targeting calls I've seen this year have been the kind of thing that you can't determine the legality of within a few minutes, and the immediate ejection does have the benefit of helping the team that suffered the hit.

I do like the yellow card idea, if implemented correctly. If something like the Bolden hit gets inexplicably upheld at least it can be adjudged a yellow card (or flagrant 1, take your pick) and he can stay in the game. In that case I would prefer that yellows don't clear for ten games or so.

But the real problem remains the utter inconsistency with which the rule is applied. A world in which the hit by Bolden is an ejection and the hit on Sypniewski against Rutgers is nothing is one in which we're just polishing turds. This targeting call was overturned:

STOP SLIDING

Until that gets fixed the penalty is a worthless piece of security theater.

[After THE JUMP: pushing a hypothetical demonic button, finding Marques Slocum, clock malfeasance, staff composition]

Wasn't this a movie with Cameron Diaz?

Brian,

Would you push a button that would cause someone random somewhere in the world to die if Jabrill scored in all three phases against Ohio State, directly in your eyeball at the Big House? In my opinion the only issue is the remote possibility that pressing the button eliminates Jabrill himself which would be devastating for the 2016 Natty Run that is already "the primary focus."

Thank you,

Mike

"Random" is the key factor here. Usually when this happens there is a startling reveal later that there is a chain of button-pushers before you, many of whom have met an alarming and unusual demise soon after pushing the button. If you can get the demonic entity providing the button in question to agree to certain parameters in writing that guarantee certain safeguards, then you might consider it.

The problem with all such scenarios is that invariably the callous act backfires on the perpetrator no matter how carefully the battlefield is prepared beforehand. Ways in which this could happen:

  • Urban Meyer freaks out and quits, whereupon he is replaced by a 20 year old clone of Bill Belichick
  • The random victim's loved ones are informed of the dastardly act and vow Tonya Harding style revenge on the team on the eve of the 2016 Game
  • The method of untimely demise is by earth-wrecking asteroid

Before we even get to the moral aspects of such a decision, pushing the occult button is never a good idea. Ohio State will get theirs at some point. I mean… yeah. That's the ticket.

INTERESTING

My buddy who plays for the Shanghai Titans just told me Marques Slocum and Caron Butler play for the Chongqing team.

30 for 30: F--- Lion In Congqing. Do it.

Really late response to a person wondering about running out the clock with Bert-type malfeasance

I happened to have this hypothetical debate with a fellow Michigan fan a week before the scenario unfolded, and was displeased that I got to live the real life version the following week.  With the understanding that this play would have to be put into to the book ahead of time, similar to a spike or a victory formation, could an intentional false start play have helped us in this situation?
My thought would be, instead of calling the timeout (keep the clock rolling), call your “false start play.”  With one tick left on the play clock, a member of the Michigan team jumps, and draws the flag.  An automatic 10 second clock runoff is enforced.  Game over?  Can that be declined?
I understand it would have to be organized before implementation, but is it a sound theory?
Again, I have no idea if this email is going to get to someone that cares, but any input would help my brain sleep.
Go Blue!

KSmith

This is covered in the NCAA rulebook:

Unfair Clock Tactics

ARTICLE 3. The referee shall order the game clock or play clock started or stopped whenever either team conserves or consumes playing time by tactics obviously unfair. This includes starting the game clock on the snap if the foul is by the team ahead in the score. The game clock will start on the ready-for-play signal after Team A throws an illegal forward or backward pass to conserve time (Rule 3-3-2-e-14) (A.R. 3-4-3-I-V).

Committing a penalty never helps you with the clock. The rule is always "do whatever the offending team would not want you to do." Your best bet would be to have important guys hold, because then maybe that doesn't get regarded as "obviously unfair," but any penalty-related clock stuff was long ago nerfed. Probably because Fielding Yost tried all of it.

Durkin departure?

With all of the pretty big openings in the P5 thus far, what do you think the likelihood is that someone makes a run at Durkin this year?  I mean, I expect to lose him to somebody at some point, but...

Jason

I'd be a little surprised if he went this year. While I think he's going to be a head coach in the near future, this is the first year he's been a defensive coordinator under a head coach with an offensive focus. It is a little early for his name to come up with search firms and the like.

Even if he does come up, the kind of jobs he'd be offered right now are things like Maryland and Illinois with dubious histories of success. Maryland in particular looks like a death trap given the state of the Big Ten East. If, say, Herman gets hired away and Houston comes after him that's a different situation. A ton of coaches bounce from Houston to major programs. Nobody has moved up from Maryland or Illinois since John Mackovic in 1991, and there have been many who tried.

Durkin can afford to be patient, as well. Next year Michigan returns 7 starters and three more DL who are playing very well this year. There should be little to no dropoff if Jourdan Lewis follows through on his tweeted desire to get his degree. Like Pat Narduzzi, Durkin can make sure his first stop is one with a reasonable opportunity for success.

The one thing that gives me pause is the sheer number of jobs that are open this year. Once big schools start poaching small school head coaches there are going to be 30 jobs available, and one might find Durkin to be of mutual interest. The nice thing is that if that happens Harbaugh has an impeccable track record of finding and attracting A-level coaches, including one DJ Durkin.

Hypothetical good puntin' stats.

Brian:

I have heard you mention your dissatisfaction with the punting statistics that are widely available, including the "inside the 20" statistic that is often cited.  It seems to me that a useful statistic for measuring a team's success in punting would account for the punter's "leg"; his accuracy in pinning the opposing team deep within their own territory; the punting team's ability to down an unreturned ball advantageously; and the punting team's ability to cover a return.  With that in mind, it seems that a useful metric would consist of (i) the distance of the punt as a numerator ("leg"); and (ii) a denominator consisting of the distance between the opposing team's goal line and the yard-line where the next offensive play begins (expressed that way in order to account for returns that cross the 50).  For touchbacks, the denominator is 20.

I am guessing that no one really tracks it that way already, or we would have heard of it.  Is that true?

If it is true that no one currently tracks it that way, whom would I need to address in order to make this a thing?  Nate Silver?  Someone Australian?

Thanks,

"Hugh White"  

The best simple punting stat that doesn't require extra data is one that has a big database of punting outcomes and compares your outcomes to those. So if punts from your own 20 usually end up 45 yards downfield, you get credit for a punt that nets 50 and dinged for one that nets 40. I'm pretty sure that's the approach that FEI uses.

But my plea there was for more data. Two items are pretty simple: location where the ball is fielded or hits the ground and the location where the ball ends the play. A third is a bit more finicky but if you also gathered time from the snap to when the ball hits or is fielded then you would have a pretty robust set of data to figure out which punters put the ball in advantageous situations, as Blake O'Neill did with a rugby punt to the sideline that Indiana returned for a TD anyway. Also you could then quantify things like "how much yardage did that fair catch save?" Approximately, at least.

Coaching staff composition.

Brian,
A fellow Michigan fan and myself continue to go back and forth on the value of a special teams dedicated assistant coach. Obviously Baxter has paid dividends for Michigan but I think he is somewhat of an outlier based on his track record as arguably the best in the business at what he does.

It bothers fellow Michigan fan that Baxter does not appear to be heavily involved in recruiting and he thinks that final coaching spot should go to an "ace" recruiter. Counter-argument to that is with the size and background of our current recruiting staff adding a guy just to recruit seems redundant. The difference Baxter has made from a special teams standpoint significantly outweighs the value of adding an assistant that is strictly a recruiter unless that assistant is Ed Orgeron (and Ed isn't only a recruiter).

He also argues that we could more effectively use that last spot for a dedicated QB spot or split the DL or add a LB coach and let Durkin oversee the whole defense. I argue that it is very rare for a defense to have more than 4 coaches across college football and we also have some guy named Harbaugh that seems to do ok with QBs and still managing the team as a whole.

So my question is does the way a head coach divides responsibilities matter much to you as long as there isn't a glaring weakness? (Stacked staff on one side, clearly underqualfied coach at another position, etc.)

Thanks,
Matt

I have to contest one of the assumptions here. Baxter is just as much of a recruiter as anyone else on the staff. He's held an "associate head coach" title for much of his career, which usually indicates a guy who has a lot of recruiting responsibilities even if his coaching role is a position coach or whatever. His Academic Gameplan approach is something I just saw USC fans pine for while scouring their 247 board for anything on Keyshon Camp. He's a lead guy on the West Coast and in Utah.

The only guy who I think didn't recruit much was Al Borges, who generally just grabbed whatever quarterback that Clarkson guy told him to get and then disappeared. Other than that, everyone always recruits.

As to the staff composition Q, Michigan has a great luxury in Jim Harbaugh since with him they do not need a QB coach. He is also kind of the offensive coordinator, and Drevno is kind of the offensive coordinator, and Jedd Fisch is kind of the offensive coordinator. This allows Drevno to also be the OL coach and (probably) do a lot of work with the TEs.  Getting double duty from Drevno and Harbaugh allows Michigan to have a dedicated ST coach and a dedicated TEs coach in Jay Harbaugh. Jay Harbaugh also covers the Twitter Expert and Guy Who Knows What Dabbing Is spots.

I normally do think that a special-teams-only spot is a bit of a waste, but given the spare capacity Harbaugh gives the staff it's a luxury Michigan can afford.

Counterfactual is not fun

Brian,

With the hiring of Harbaugh and the subsequent revitalization of the program, not to mention this season's on field success, I have to imagine site traffic has increased quite a bit. I was wondering what things were like roughly this time last year. I'm talking about the seeming apathy of the fan base, the program to some extent, and even you. Whether you truly didn't care anymore or not, you certainly had the appearance of going through the motions.

With all that said, this site and Michigan football is your job/life/passion. At the time we didn't know what would happen. It was entirely possible that the program go down in flames and not recover. Did the thought ever occur to you "what will I do if this goes completely to shit?"  Did you ever seriously consider that you may, if things didn't turn around, have to close up shop? Maybe not right away, but maybe 2-3 years down the road. Consider that Brandon and Hoke would still be here now, the team is maybe 2-5, maybe 1-6 after another blowout loss to MSU and Hoke is a lame duck, if not fired mid season. You're looking at probably less than 60k fans at the Rutgers game in November. Who knows what happens as far as another coach as it's entirely possible our program is such a tire fire that no one wants to touch it. Where was your head in regards to the viability of the blog at that point? Did you ever get that far?

Thanks for all you do.
Sincerely yours in football,
Kyle (Carolina Blue)

I think this year would have been a professional and personal disaster but Brandon and Hoke would be out the door either already or in the near future. John Bacon's Endzone and my conversations with the author lay out a scenario that without the swift kick in the ass the emails provided, Mark Schlissel was inclined to let Brandon try to find his footing until the end of the school year. I can't imagine he survives that since literally everyone hated him save the student-athletes, including the regents, but that's probably long enough to nerf the Harbaugh pursuit and kick off a death slog through 2015.

At this point I'm probably firing up the Tom Herman bat-signal for Jim Hackett and saying "well, basketball though" after doing 1.5 UFRs. But we don't have to think about that any more, do we?

Comments

Salinger

November 17th, 2015 at 1:08 PM ^

Yes, but Mike Martin/ Alan Branch!! These are the names against which we weigh how good the likes of Ryan Glasgow and the other DTs are this year, am I right?

I'm not trying to be dismissive because we just saw what a d-line minus Ryan Glasgow looks like and it wasn't pretty. I just think Martin and Branch are the recent Michigan gold-standard where defensive tackle play is concerned. 

EDIT** Or, what Jeepin said.

dragonchild

November 17th, 2015 at 1:20 PM ^

. . . is greater than the sum of its parts.  They're individually good enough that it's very difficult to account for them all. 

Collectively the 2015 D-line -- until injuries softened it considerably -- was a nightmare because every guy on the two-deep was good enough that single-blocking was a shaky proposition.  Over time, winning every block, every down, was a monumental task that most offenses can't execute.  But there isn't a guy who blows up all the plays, game in and game out, a la Mike Martin or Alan Branch.  Glasgow is very good, but he's not a terrifying monster.

Pepto Bismol

November 17th, 2015 at 3:54 PM ^

The reversal of the personal foul is the part that drives me over the edge.

An official throws a clear personal foul/late hit/roughing flag which is 15 yards, then additionally deems it to be "targeting".  Upon review, they consult the Magic 8 Ball regarding the "targeting" aspect and if overturned, not only do they rescind the ejection, they pick up the flag!

It's complete nonsense.  You're essentially reviewing judgment call penalties.  There's a reason the flag was thrown.  You HAVE to at least keep the yardage, regardless of the targeting ejection.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

 

 

In reply to by Pepto Bismol

Former_DC_Buck

November 18th, 2015 at 9:13 AM ^

If it isn't a penalty why the yardage?  I think they still have the option to keep the yardage if it is something like roughing the passer with targetting, late hit out of bounds with targetting, etc. 

But, look at the call against Bolden.  There is no way he should have been ejected and there is no way MSU should have gotten yards for it.  If they had correctly overturned the targetting you are saying MSU should have gotten the yardage anyway.

Outside of the Bolden call the targetting calls I have seen overturned, for the most part, have been hard hits in the upper part of the body, but low enough to not be targetting but they caused the players head to snap back.  Illinois was flagged for one against our WR Michael Thomas last week, that I was happy to seem them overturn.  He was hit high, but not too high, but his head snapped back, so the ref threw it and then let the replay sort it out.  he should not have been ejected and we should not have been gifted 15 yards for a legal, hard hit.   

I hate that it breaks the flow of the game, but I get what I think is the process.  They err on the side of it being a call and expect the booth to clear it up.  Which is fine, I suppos,e if the booth does the job right.  In the case of Bolden, they did not. 

Pepto Bismol

November 18th, 2015 at 1:44 PM ^

If you want to skip all of this, I'll just reply to this statement of yours:  "I think they have the option to keep the yardage if it's something like (blah blah blah)".  You would think that, wouldn't you?  I don't think they do, because we've seen multiple instances of targeting reversals negating obvious penalties.

 

We're definitely not looking at the same plays.  I've seen multiple instances of a sliding quarterback getting drilled after the slide + flag thrown.  Great.  That's 15 yards and it's absolutely deserved.

But because they call it "targeting", then it goes to the booth and some guy is ruling on the complete randomness that is the targeting definition.  In multiple instances, that guy decides it doesn't fit the criteria for targeting and the ejection is overturned.  Fine.  Whatever.

But the officials also are then forced to negate the obvious penalty that occurred. 

Let me put it to you in a different scenario:  Imagine JT floated a ball up to Thomas and two seconds before the ball got there, the Illinois DB blew him up.  Flags fly.  Obvious P.I.  But the official calls it "targeting".  They review.  Nevermind, not targeting.  Forget everything. And they walk the ball back to the original LOS for 2nd & 10.  You'd be beside yourself asking "What about the clear pass interference!?!?"

This is what I've seen.  Multiple times.

Targeting can be it's own call, but more often than not (that I've seen), it's called almost as an add-on to a separate penalty that should still be enforced.

You're referring to a play that sounds like Michigan's Ross versus NW.  He hit a receiver.  They called it targeting.  He got booted.  Probably the correct call.  But if the refs just got overzealous and upon review saw that it was just a clean/hard tackle, then that fits your point and no yardage is necessary. 

Officials need to be allowed to call targeting in addition to standard penalties in situations like the hypothetical I described above.  Sometimes it's still a penalty, regardless of the targeting.  Call "Personal foul, late hit on the Quarterback, with Targeting".  That way if the targeting is dismissed, the obvious penalty is still enforced.

 

 

Pepto Bismol

November 18th, 2015 at 1:55 PM ^

Just one more to prove I'm actually not taking crazy pills:

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2015/11/jim_harbaugh_wants_more_clarit.html

Harbaugh addresses this issue specifically in the last 5 paragraphs of this article.

Player blocked in the back on a punt return, flagged and called with targeting.  Review negates the targeting, which in turn negates any penalty on the play.  What about the block in the back?

That play resulted in a punt return inside the Michigan 10 yard line with under a minute left in the half.  The block in the back would've put them on their own 30 or so.  Because they called targeting, and reversed it, that negated a block in the back penalty and gave Rutgers about 60 yards in undeserved field position...

Because they can't still enforce the original penalty... which is completely stupid.

 

ckersh74

November 17th, 2015 at 12:48 PM ^

Looking back at it now, assuming a decent snap, maybe everyone not named Blake holds everything wearing green and white. If he gets the punt off, and MSU accepts the penalty, we take knee on the replay of 4th down as the clock hits 0:00. Yes, I'm reaching. No, I really do not care to prolong that conversation.

dipshit moron

November 17th, 2015 at 1:30 PM ^

that game is hard to forget but nothing was done wrong except the punter dropping the snap. it was blocked great. many people said michigan blew it because they didnt max protect, which i never understood. 3 blockers tight right in front of the punter, with no one realeasing except the wide man to the right. not one msu player came clean. just a freak play.

ak47

November 17th, 2015 at 12:46 PM ^

I love Denard but really?  He isn't a good qb, makes more sense to include him as a rb. With those wr's having an actual accurate qb who won't turn the ball over much is way more valuable than a dual threat qb who isn't a good enough thrower to win a game where the run gets taken away (ie every big game michigan played with him at qb).  You take henne at that spot 100 times out of 100 especially since Mike Hart isn't a big play explosive back that your really want paired with a qb in zone read offense.

ak47

November 17th, 2015 at 1:17 PM ^

Denard shredded bad ND teams, here are some statlines from his games against good defenses.

The BCS win you mentioned?  9/21 117 yds 2 tds 1 int and 13 carries for 13 yards

against msu that same year? 9/24 123 yds 1td 1 int and 18 carries for 42 yards

I can keep going.  Denards td/int ratio the year we won the sugar bowl?  20/15 his best year he went 18/11.  He was an incredibly exciting player and seems like a great guy as a person and I wish he was around during a better time in Michigan footbal but to put him at qb over 2006 Chad Henne who completed over 60% of his passes with a td/int ratio of 22/8 that year is just absurd.  Denard just wasn't that good at throwing part of being a qb and its the reason the offense got shut down against good teams. 

InterM

November 17th, 2015 at 1:27 PM ^

The rules actually allow a QB to both throw AND run.  Given that Denard's 2010 passing stats are quite similar to the 2006 Henne stats you characterize as "just absurd," seems like you'd want to consider a guy who also contributed over 1,700 yards rushing and 14 rushing TDs when deciding on your QB.

And while you're cherry-picking Denard's stats in big games, you conveniently forgot OSU 2011, when he went 14/17 for 167 yards and three TDs passing, plus 26 carries for 170 yards and 2 TDs rushing.

ak47

November 17th, 2015 at 1:44 PM ^

You are right that osu was a big game, they were also 6-6 that year.  I was picking stats from games against good teams, not just rivalry games and 2011 osu wasn't a good team.  Rich Rod offenses shredded bad teams and faltered against good ones so comparing yearlong stats doesn't do much for me.  I don't really care about Denards stats against bowling green or indiana, I care about how he performed as a qb in games against competitive teams. and comparing that to Henne in games against competitive teams.

Put it another way, Henne never has a game where he only throws for 87 yards.  If your goal is to win a championship that can't be an option.

InterM

November 17th, 2015 at 3:46 PM ^

Henne's line that game:  11/34 for 68 yards.  He also was sacked three times for -20 yards.  Also, Henne never beat OSU, he went 1-3 in bowl games (versus 1-2 for Denard, including the South Carolina game where he didn't play QB), and he went 2-2 against Notre Dame (versus 2-1 for Denard, not counting the 2009 game (another win) where he barely played).  So I don't think you can really hold up Henne over Denard as a big game/championship QB.

dnak438

November 17th, 2015 at 1:08 PM ^

Which would you prefer?

QB #1: 203 for 328, 61.9% completion, 2,508 yards, 7.6 yds per attempt, 22 TDs, 8 INT, 143.4 QB rating

QB#2: 182 for 291, 62.5% completion, 2,570 yards, 8.8 yds per attempt, 18 TDs, 11 INT, 149.6 QB rating

Keep in mind that one of these guys had 1,702 rushing yards and 14 TDs and the other had -83.

Magnus

November 17th, 2015 at 1:29 PM ^

I'm not sure if that's a great argument. Denard Robinson had a really fun season that year, but Michigan didn't win very much. A big part of a QB's legacy is winning games, and Robinson's best statistical year was when he beat up on some weak teams and still went 7-6.

InterM

November 17th, 2015 at 1:12 PM ^

Henne 2006:  203/328 (61.9 completion percentage), 7.6 YPA, 22 TDs, 8 INTs

Denard 2010:  182/291 (62.5 completion percentage), 8.8 YPA, 18 TDs, 11 INTs

I'd say that's "remotely close."  And, oh yeah, there's the rushing stats:

Henne 2006:  -83 yards, -1.8 YPC, 0 TDs

Denard 2010:  1702 yards, 6.6 YPC, 14 TDs

Hey, you're right -- it's not remotely close after all.

ak47

November 17th, 2015 at 1:40 PM ^

2010 Denard against ranked teams:

ND: 24/40 244 yds 1 td and 28 carries for 258 yards and 2 tds

msu: 17/29 215 yds 1 td 3 int and 21 carries for 86 yards and 2 tds

Iowa: 13/18 96 yds 1 td 1 int with 18 carries for 105 yds (tate also played a lot of qb in this game)

Wisonsin: 16/25 239 yds 2 tds 1 int and 22 carries for 121 yds and 2 tds

Osu: 8/18 87 yds with 18 carries for 105 yds

Miss st: 27/41 254 yds 2 td 1 int with 11 carries for 59 yds

He also had 10 fumbles that year though didn't go through the game by game breakdown

2006 Chad Henne agains ranked teams (super small sample but includes 3 top 10 teams.

ND:  13/22 220 yds 3td 1 int

Osu: 21/35 267 yds 2 td

USC: 26/41 309 yds 2 td 1 int

If I am rolling with the team Brian posted I'm going for the QB who isn't going to put up a 3 int game at any point.

umfanchris

November 17th, 2015 at 3:30 PM ^

Henne only faced 3 Ranked teams that year. Are you really going to compare these 2 based on 23% if the games that Henne Played that year?

 

 If you look at that 2006 offense, it was stacked. Mike Hart, Jake Long, Mario Mannigham, Adrian Arrington, Steve Breaston. On top of that the 2006 defense was solid, which meant they were typically playing ahead. 

 

Here are their stats for the two:

Henne: 2508 Yds; 61.9% completion, 7.6 Y/A, TD 22, 8 INT for 143.4 Passer Rating:  -83 Yards Rushing  and 0 TD’s. Total Accounted Yards 2425 and 22 TD

Denard: 2570 Yds 62.5% completion, 8.8 Y/A, TD 18, 11 INT for 149.6 Passer Rating: 1702 Yards Rushing and 14TD’s: Total Accounted Yards 4272 and 32 TD’s

 

Honestly to me, their passing stats look pretty close. Denard threw 3 more interceptions that year, but everything else looks better. Better completion percentage, Better Yards per attempt, Better Passer Rating. Then if you factor in running (which is a huge part of playing QB these days) it is hands down Denard.

In reply to by somewittyname

ST3

November 17th, 2015 at 2:24 PM ^

because the QB plays the whole game all by himself. It's really tough for him to play defense against 11 guys at the same time, and then throw passes to himself and block for himself on a running play.