Mailbag: Dead Yet, Duderstadt Days Again, Turnaround Timeframe Comment Count

Brian

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[Eric Upchurch]

Could he keep his job?

You can't twirl a dead cat anymore without hitting someone claiming, "if Brady Hoke wins out he could keep his job." If you ignore the fact that at no point has this team even competed with a competent team, there is still too much against him, right? If somehow the stars align and a UM team that was embarrassed in New Jersey can beat an OSU team that will probably be favored by 20+, Hoke is still gone, right?

I'm terrified that all this smoke about him still having a chance means there's fire. The last thing UM needs is to have Hoke Wayne Fontes his way into another chance. Pleases just tell me that a New AD means a new coach and I can enjoy watching Drake Johnson run roughshod over NW.

-Dylan [Ed: not that Dylan]

It's worse than that, actually: there are a number of people asserting crazy things about what happens if Michigan squeaks into a bowl game.

First, that is not likely. Michigan is a dog to a Northwestern team that just got blitzed by Iowa, and they'll probably be a slight favorite against Maryland before being a two-TD dog against OSU. Going to a bowl at all is a 30% proposition.

Even if Michigan finishes the season "strong" I can't imagine Hoke returning for a thousand reasons we've all seen. The major one is what happens to the season ticket base. It has to take a significant hit if Hoke's back, and with Brandon expanding his expenses even more rapidly than he expanded Michigan's revenue that could see Michigan dip into the red. That's not tenable.

Neither is Hoke. Without a miracle upset against Ohio State this year's resume consists of wins over some of the worst teams Division I has to offer and comprehensive blowouts against any team with a pulse. In year four, with an offense that is more experienced than Ohio State's.

Are we going back to the Duderstadt attitude?

What's up mgoblog,

I have read a lot about " be careful what you wish for" in terms of firing Dave. I think all football fans agree that we need to pay our coaches competitive salaries and Dave was on the same page.

It has been discussed most recently by Sam Webb that Schlissel has little interest in paying a coach top dollar.

Do you think there is some truth to this or do you think this is just speculation.

I am worried Michigan will hire a decent coach and be content with 8-4.
Thanks,

Mike V in CT.

I don't have much to go on in this department and I don't think many people know what's going on inside Schlissel's head. But: I seriously doubt that Schlissel is going to say anything to his athletic director about appropriate salaries as long as the department stays in the black. He's a doctor and a biology professor; he's going to look at numbers and do the thing that makes sense.

Since one of the best ways to keep the department in the black is to hire a real good football coach, I doubt a couple million a year is going to make or break M's ability to get the right guy.

If there's anything resembling a reconfiguring of priorities I would expect it comes in the academic component of the athletic department. That's something I forgot about in the previous mailbag when I was searching for good things Brandon did—under his watch Michigan pulled out of the Rodriguez transition APR disaster and graduated literally every senior FB player under Hoke. I don't think an emphasis on getting plausible students is going to have a ton of impact since Michigan is avoiding borderline guys already.

Michigan might scale back some of the more extravagant building projects for non-revenue sports, but I'm of the opinion that's a good thing. Palaces make some sense for the revenue sports because they, you know, generate revenue. (And those are all done anyway.) Adding permanent maintenance and debt service costs to the U's bottom line puts more stress on the fans to provide money and reduces Michigan's ability to get quality coaches in all sports.

[After THE JUMP: student attendance against Indiana, turnaround timeframe, WHYYYYY]

Student attendance?

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[Bryan Fuller]

Brain,

I would like to know your take on the student attendance at the Indiana game. Was the lack of attendance following Brandon's resignation indicative of ongoing anger with the program? Or do you think it had to do with post-Halloween lethargy?

Second, do you think our win was in part due to a burst of energy follow a positive change in our athletic program or merely because Indiana is just a bad football team?

Thanks.
Strokepmr

Brandon's exit didn't change many of the fundamental facts presented the students on Saturday: they were hungover, it was surprisingly cold, Michigan is not a good football team, and the game they were watching was not a good football game. Also only 12,000 of them have tickets this year.

Hell, I was seriously thinking about leaving in the fourth quarter. The entertainment value here is not real high, and even the normal reason to hang around and watch a game like Indiana—it might give you some information about how Michigan will be the rest of the year and possibly next year—is a really weak one at the moment.

Michigan won because Indiana is really really bad, especially without a QB.

How quick can this turn around?

Brian,

I keep hearing you suggest that whomever the coach is, we should expect a four year rebuild. I can't help but feel this is a classic situation of the new coach winning with the old coach's players. The roster is full of scholarship players. There is a huge number of four and five star players entering upper class men range. I especially expect a huge bump from the offensive and defensive lineman entering that range. Are these players damaged from the disorganization that has plagued the team? Were there really that many swing and misses?

Jim

I don't think I've said this is a major reclamation project. Rodriguez had one. Hoke had one. The next guy is walking into 9 or 10 returning starters on offense and a defense that returns seven starters plus Morgan and Peppers. Unlike both of the previous transitions, the new coach will have double-digit offensive linemen.

I do think it's likely that Michigan had some swings and misses amongst its touted offensive line class; otherwise they would not be starting a true freshman at LT. Still, a new good mean coach can get production out of these gentlemen quickly. A look at the roster suggests the year two breakout that successful coaches tend to have is very plausible.

As long as he finds a QB, that is.

WHYYYYYYY?

Hi Brian,

I know for some its a forgone conclusion that Hoke will not be
back after this season.  I have no problem with this as he has simply
failed to develop players, and most of all, regressed every year.
That being said, I have one question.  Why? 

What do you see our successful opponents doing when you watch on film, that we are not doing.  Specifically, is there a fundamental flaw that you see
when watching hours of video that our team possesses that could only come from our coaches?  I'm not talking about Gardner and his footwork, or the O-line/running backs failing to pick up yet another A-gap blitz.  We know they fail at these things, we know that the running backs don't hit the holes.  But why? 

I don't know if I am even asking my question correctly.  What is it at the molecular level that has prevented this team from learning from their mistakes?  Is the system too complicated?  Too simple?  Too archaic?  If Chris
Spielman can predict a run or pass play based on some obvious mannerisms by the MSU RB, why couldn't Hoke pick up on this from the hours of video he watched?  I know you don't have access to the team practices (unfortunately), and I know you are not a football coach, but is there something specific you see that makes you think our players are being taught incorrect things? 

-Fritz

I wish I had an easy answer. For Rodriguez there was an easy answer: he hired two guys who didn't know a 3-3-5 from a hole in the ground to run his defense and his assistants hated the idea of running anything else. (Here's a what-if-the-Nazis-won-WWII counterfactual: what if Rodriguez installed Tony Gibson as his DC on day 1.) That paired with Mallett's departure and the dearth of talent left from the Carr regime put him behind the eight ball and he could not recover.

Hoke is a more complicated nut to crack. I do think it says something about something that the coaching staff came in swearing up and down that they were going to run power down the opponents' throat and have gone to an inside zone oriented system in year four. In year one, they ended up running the inverted veer wrong but got bailed out by Denard being Denard and OSU being down to a seriously injured freshman edition of Ryan Shazier.

At no point have they settled on a thing to be, and the things they wanted to be only grudgingly took advantage of the fact that they had some super fast QBs.

Yes, they're too archaic. Jeff Hecklinski told Sam Webb that "speed can be taught"; a glance at this year's WR corps suggest that's not actually true. They've assembled an offense with very little speed and insisted on running a bunch of tight ends onto the field when for most of the Hoke regime they've been more likely to blow a block than make one. They've heavily preferred their biggest backs despite serious performance issues; they have a vision of their program that is hard to make work unless you're Alabama. (Yeah, Stanford. Stanford and…?)

That's one issue, but the bigger one is that it seems like everyone is sloppy. Hoke's making bonkers decisions on a weekly basis. WRs run bad routes, OL blow by their assignments, RBs miss holes, safeties take terrible angles. The most likely explanation to me is that Michigan is poorly structured from the top down, with a lack of—I'm sorry to use this #hottake—accountability with various assistants.

The mission statement.

Check out the mission statement for the athletic department.

The AD's customers are the student-athletes. The mission statement is 300 + words long and does not mention students, alumni, fans, community or state. Dave Brandon was just doing his job.

Obviously this is dumb. More importantly, it seems to not be how Schlissel conceives of the Athletic Department's role. Do you know how people change a mission statement here? Do people within the AD take the mission statement seriously? 

-Jeremy

Mission statements are never taken seriously by anyone except the committee crafting them, and as soon as they're done torturing the English language past its breaking point they forget about it too. That does provide a great deal of insight into the department's attitude.

Here's what the mission statement should be:

"The University of Michigan athletic department strives to graduate its athletes, win games, and provide a kick-ass fan experience at a fair price."

The end.

Pearson.HOPosed2011_sr[1]

RAP LYRICS INDICATING SUITABILITY OF PURPOSE [MichiganTechHuskies.com]

Mel Pearson tha god?

I think so.

I mean, I kind of thought so when Pearson went to Tech and they immediately went from punching bag to pretty decent. The year before Pearson arrived in Houghton the Huskies were 4-30-4(!), and the previous two years had seen the Huskies win 5 and 6 games. Pearson helicopters in; they immediately go 16-19-4, their best season since 2005-06, and they've hovered slightly under .500 since. Before Pearson, MTU's had two seasons of 10+ wins since 1999-00.

This year they're going full Mullen. They're 6-0, having swept LSSU and Ferris on the road before blowing Michigan's doors off in a series that was 10-3 total goals. Meanwhile, Michigan has fallen off the map and is facing down what may be their third straight year without a tourney bid of any variety.

By the end of this year or next—Berenson is scheduled to retire after 2014-15 but has made noises about getting out early if he thinks he's not getting it done—Pearson is going to look like a strong candidate for any college hockey job, let alone the one he helped drive to great success. Age is the only drawback—he's 55 currently.

Pearson's biggest obstacle to the Michigan job is in Massachusetts, where UMass-Lowell coach Norm Bazin has done even more incredible work. The year before his arrival UML went 5-25-4. They hadn't been to the tournament since 1996. In Bazin's three years UML has been to the tourney every year,—doubling the number of bids in the history of the program—won their first-ever Hockey East title, and gone to their first-ever Frozen Four. He's in his fourth year there and he's already won HE coach of the year twice and national coach of the year once. Possible difficulty: Bazin's a UML alum.

Even if Bazin doesn't work out, if the worst you can do is Mel Pearson you're gonna have a good coaching search.

Comments

GoBLUinTX

November 5th, 2014 at 1:45 PM ^

So you're saying Nussmeier is no better than Borges?  Then why fire Borges and hire Nussmeier when all that can promise is a steaming pile of crap?  At least by keeping Borges they wouldn't have been learning an entirely new system.  So no, I don't buy that the Borges offense would be such a horrible mess we are currently suffering through.

westwardwolverine

November 5th, 2014 at 1:55 PM ^

Because everything about Nussmeier's history suggests he is better than Borges. 

Maybe its not the case, but it was still the right move. 

Regardless, your endless "Why would we ever fire Al Borges!" shtick is hilariously wrong, yet you continue to roll with it like it hasn't been shot down over and over again. As I've already said: There is nothing about Borges that in anyway suggests we wouldn't be in the same spot we're in now. So trying something new to avoid that was always the right move. Get over it and find a new routine. 

Ron Utah

November 5th, 2014 at 1:41 PM ^

Sure, youth and a scheme change are challenges.  But the #107 scoring offense in the country?

It's one thing to be bad, it's another thing to be nearly ineffective.  With the talent we have, there is NO excuse for our offensive production.  Even Rich Rod's first season--when there was far, far, far less talent--was 99th in scoring offense.

Teams with far worse OC's and far less talent are out-perfoming us.  There is no excuse for that.

We are 10 weeks into the season, after having a full spring and summer and fall camp to digest the changes.  We are still pathetic on offense.  There is no excuse for that.

C Tron

November 5th, 2014 at 1:52 PM ^

All of that is fine and dandy, but if experience is the major factor, then wouldn't we see improvement as the season progresses?  I'd argue yes, and that we have't.  And I think if we just kept this staff the way it is heading into next year, we'd see more of the same.

Mo Better Blues

November 5th, 2014 at 3:01 PM ^

A very comprehensive comment that I think touches it with a needle. I would just respectfully add that Hoke has an additional culpability in the matter by not recognizing that Devin Gardner of 2014 isn't even Devin Gardner of 2013, and by refusing to bench/teach him in the moment, when things were fresh and lessons could be learned, he took a player that was physically broken by the end of '13 and mentally broke him by early '14. Now, I've never coached, but I have to think that, having not been here last season, Nuss would not be in the greatest position to note differences in Gardner's demeanor, practice, and even play and progressions this season.

I get the feeling the Offense's failure has something to do with Hoke's humility; his comfort in accepting his own limitations, making him excessively happy to defer and delegate to assistants who may or may not get the job done, and thus, there is a lack of control at the top over various aspects of the game. No one can be an expert on everything, and it is entirely possible to my mind that he while he was focusing on defensive line play--which by itself is hugely important and can make a lot of mediocre teams (ahem...say at the MAC level) look better in a reasonably quick turnaround time--he may not have ever become fluent in the Offense. This is to say: "he doesn't know what he doesn't know". You can't bitch people out if you're not positive what you're doing--or worse, you can, and thereby pressure them to do the wrong things.

mGrowOld

November 5th, 2014 at 12:52 PM ^

I have also wondered about the "why" when watching Michigan this year (why do our highly rated recruits underperform, why does our highly thought of OC struggle, why does our 5th yr Sr QB look like he's regressing and so on) and wonder if the problem isnt with Hoke's willing to accept failure without reprocussion.  

I worked with guy like Hoke a few years ago. His number one driver in life was being liked by others so anything (and I mean anything) that jepordized somebody liking him he was unwilling to do.  He was universally loved by everyone in his department at the same time his division radically underperformed the rest of the company.  Why?  Because it was "ok" to fail under his leadership and there were never any real consequences.  And when we was demoted everybody that worked for him was sad/pissed but shortly after he was gone their performance started to improve dramatically because his replacement fired two people almost immediately and everyone else woke up.

Watching Hoke through the past four years I'm hard pressed to think of time he got mad, really mad, at anybody for doing anything.  Not at the referees who've screwed over his team, not at his AD who hung him publicly out to dry, not at his coaches who have repeatidly failed him and certainly not at his players who underperform and miss assaignments.  I have never seen or even heard stories of him getting pissed about anything and I think everyone around him knows it.

You can be a "nice guy" and succeed in coaching (and business) but players (or associates) have to know there is a minimum standard of performance that MUST be met or their will be consequences.  With Hoke I wonder if there such a standard and I wonder if there are consequences.

glewe

November 5th, 2014 at 12:55 PM ^

Your passage on "WHYYYY" is one of the best things you've written all season.

This statement, in particular, seems paramount:

"The most likely explanation to me is that Michigan is poorly structured from the top down, with a lack of—I'm sorry to use this #hottake—accountability with various assistants."

In this structure, you will have embedded the philosophy of the program. I wrote a diary hypothesizing that the coaches need to use more active destructive responses to student athletes in order to improve motivation; who did not see a bump in Gardner's performance when he came back in after being benched? Data suggests that Rutgers was his best game in a long, long time. The positive psychology tactics seem not to work in college. I actually think--with recent talk about how Harbaugh's "collegiate mentality" isn't working--that Hoke might be highly successful in the NFL.

I disagree about the mission statement, however. Mission statements are a touchstone. If you ever question what you're doing, you ask yourself how it contributes to a mission statement. I'm uncertain if you've ever worked for a non-profit, Brian, but the mission statement is what you need to frame your entire organization around.

harmon98

November 5th, 2014 at 12:57 PM ^

No way Hoke returns. When is the last time Hoke's team played a solid game in all three phases versus a ranked opponent? I see two Ws to choose from: 2011 Nebraska 45-17 and 2013 ND 41-30. One could argue the W over Va Tech in the Sugar Bowl as well.

That's not acceptable for a coach in his fifth year IMO.

MI Expat NY

November 5th, 2014 at 1:07 PM ^

The Sugar Bowl was a brutal struggle on offense (184 total yards) and a game we were very lucky to win.  Hemmingway caught a prayer or two, the fake fg disaster that somehow worked out, etc.  

Much like I sometimes wonder how perceptions would have been different had RichRod's teams gotten two or three lucky breaks in his first two seasons, I wonder how perceptions would have changed for Hoke had he not seemingly been shitting horeshoes his first season.  

bstaub32

November 5th, 2014 at 1:27 PM ^

It's his fourth year... and to be fair other than Utah (because it was early in the year) and Minnesota (Shane Morris, ugh) Hoke hasn't lost any games that he wasn't expected to... even Minnesota this year is similar spread wise to Ohio State losing to VT...

The bottom line is the team isn't mature enough yet to compete at a high level.

If this was next year when 18 starters were back and were upperclassmen, we could have a different conversation.

westwardwolverine

November 5th, 2014 at 1:39 PM ^

Rutgers? 

Everyone expected wins over Rutgers, Minnesota and Utah. 

And I don't buy the "Shane played so we lost to Minnesota". Devin Gardner was abysmal against Notre Dame and Utah. It might have been closer, but I haven't seen anything from him that suggests we were solid bets to beat Minnesota if he played. 

Mo Better Blues

November 5th, 2014 at 2:28 PM ^

Yeah, this. And both Shane Morris and Devin Gardner's crippling deficiencies are strikes against Hoke, not arguments in his favor. And to piggyback, by Year Four, I think it's fair to say the expectations were set that we, by now, would be--and Hoke, I'm sure, would admit as such--if not playing for a B1G Championship, be within reasonable striking distance. No one can seriously argue we're anywhere near that goal at this time. He's an amiable guy with an abiding love for the university and his team, but Hoke has largely failed by his own criterion. I own the FERGODSAKES tee, and still wear it because the sentiment Brady expressed was right. He just hasn't lived up to it.

Reader71

November 5th, 2014 at 4:06 PM ^

I had us at 50% against Rutgers before the season when I thought we were a 9-10 win team. That was my 'surprise loss'. I put huge emphasis on teams having to travel to a stadium they have never seen before. Of course, that's also why I assumed we would beat Utah, so there's that

C Tron

November 5th, 2014 at 2:02 PM ^

Losing to Minnesota, Utah and ND and losing to those teams the way we did are two completely different things.  I think you are trivializing how bad we have looked.  You also forgot Rutgers.  He's also not beating teams he should lose to. 

3 /4 teams we've beaten this year are football teams by name only.  PSU is the only legitimate win we have and they are not good by any definition. 

Out of curiosity, do you think that UM has gotten better as this season has progressed, gotten worse or stayed the same?  In my opinion, only one of those options is good.

uncleFred

November 5th, 2014 at 3:02 PM ^

The majority opinion around here wrote the team off the entire week. So I submit that Hoke wasn't supposed to beat them. 

Reasonable expectations for this year would have considered the impact of youth, an offense learning it's third new scheme in five years, two OCs in four years, and the impact that would likely have on consistency.

One can make the case that in 2011 the team had some very good luck. One can make the opposite case this year that they've been pretty snake bit in the luck department. 

Coaching changes need to be made unemotionally based on the realities of effective metrics and viable alternatives. At the moment, both of those are in short supply here.

robpollard

November 5th, 2014 at 1:28 PM ^

I think there are some people who actually afraid to root for UM to win these last 3 games b/c if we do, then Hoke will be retained.

Hoke won't be kept, for the reasons Brian has laid out, so I'm hoping we go 7-5 and then dominate the 7th-place ACC team (or whatever) in the Beef O'Brady's Bowl (or whatever). Whether we go 4-8 or 8-5, more change is coming. Firing Brandon has assured that, as no new AD is going to want to keep a damaged, unaccomplished coach over bringing in "their" guy.

superstringer

November 5th, 2014 at 2:13 PM ^

Can't let it go... the reason RR "failed."

I think Brian missed the most important reason.  Why did we fail?  His teams were weak -- as in, physically.  They got pushed around all the time.  Opponents who could run well just, well, ran all over us -- MSU, PSU, Iowa, Wisconsin, Mississippi State.  Hell, Wiscy ran the ball every play that second half and scored a google points.  We were down 10 points or more in the first half of every game against stout teams.  We literally couldn't stand up to opponents.

And that was by design.  Everyone drunk the Barwin koolaid b/c he talked in long, rambling, incoherent passages that made him sound like he was the brightest trainer on earth.  In fact, he was great, it seems, at making flexible players with fit and strong bodies.  He didn't, however, churn out linemen who could stand up to Wisconsin or PSU or Iowa etc etc etc.  Our best, Molk, was deemed small.

I remember the pizza story.  How our prior trainer told a lineman to eat a pizza a night, to get beefy.  And RR and Barwis laughed at that.  They molded really fit linemen..who got ran all over.  And now our current trainer has guys intaking a billion caleries again.

We literally were just too small to compete in the B1G.  We weren't tough, as a result, that's why we got embarrassed repeatedly.  And why Denard could run all over bad defenses, but would get stoned by good ones (eg OSU, MSU).

Or is it politically incorrect to every say anything bad about Barwin?

RJMAC

November 5th, 2014 at 2:25 PM ^

Maybe they were small because it was more of a speed kills type offense . On defense it was partly due to having to play very young players( who happen to be smaller and lighter) because they were decimated by injuries to their starters.

Reader71

November 5th, 2014 at 4:01 PM ^

There is more to a team than just an offense. Our defenses were slow. I've never seen a slower group of DBs at a major college level. Their breaks on the ball were consistently late. This was true during Coach Rod's entire tenure. I blame most of it on their position coaching, but S&C certainly has something to do with it. Barwis, like any S&C man, had strengths and weaknesses.

Sac Fly

November 5th, 2014 at 2:31 PM ^

I also remember Van Bergen and Mike Martin talking about the difference between practices.

The year we made that huge jump in defensive rankings, the players talked about how under RR in practice they were told everything they were doing was good, but doing it the same way for Hoke and Mattison was nowhere near good enough.

 But I guess him failing is just easier to blame on Dave Brandon and the alumni.

Don

November 5th, 2014 at 3:23 PM ^

And in game after game under tough-guy Hoke, we have gotten neutralized—if not outright pushed around—at the LOS both offensively and defensively.

You're not going to win very many games against even mildly good opposition if you can't consistenly control the line of scrimmage for entire games, and we still haven't been able to do that well into the fourth season under Hoke. This year, we've done really well defensively only against Appy St., Miami, PSU, and IU, and all of those teams had major issues on offense as of when we played them.

Reader71

November 5th, 2014 at 4:21 PM ^

Small quibble. I dont think our defense has been consistently pushed around. It has happened on occasion (MSU and Minn) but that hasn't been a real issue at any point in the Hoke tenure. Lack of pass rush and lack of great coverage have been constant, but not being pushed around. As far as the offense, you are spot on. Even during 2011, our line almost always failed to dominate, and it has only gotten worse. That is what is going to do Hoke in, in the end.

RJMAC

November 5th, 2014 at 2:14 PM ^

60 percent not 30 percent that Michigan becomes Bowl eligible . They have two winnable games against NW and Maryland. They might have a decent running game now with Johnson. The OSU game might be winnable if an already hobbling OSU QB has his foot hit again by a MSU defensive player this weekend.

steve sharik

November 5th, 2014 at 2:22 PM ^

Without a miracle upset against Ohio State this year's resume consists of wins over some of the worst teams Division I has to offer and comprehensive blowouts against any team with a pulse. In year four, with an offense that is more experienced than Ohio State's.

And a roster with top 10 talent, according that anyone who has bothered to analyze the talent of all FBS rosters.

steve sharik

November 5th, 2014 at 2:32 PM ^

...about the mission statement, the page is the mission statement and guiding priciples. 

I don't think this is accurate:
The mission statement is 300 + words long and does not mention students, alumni, fans, community or state.
I read the mission statement to simply be the first sentence:
The mission of the Athletic Department is to support and supplement the mission of the University of Michigan by providing intercollegiate and recreational sports programs.
That said, I like Brian's mission statement. To operate under the belief that the ADs customer is the student-athlete is just flat incorrect. I certainly believe that student-athletes are customers of the ADs services, but so are those who pay via ticket prices, concessions, apparel, and TV ratings, not to mention those who pay and have paid via thousands of dollars in tuition and fees, and donations.

SysMark

November 5th, 2014 at 2:37 PM ^

I don't see the 30% bowl probability.  They should beat both NW and MD which gets them there.  At that point they could go into Columbus as little as a 10-12pt dog, maybe less.

The question then becomes when do you make the HC change, before or after OSU?  If we win it gets really uncomfortable having to do it after.  The best scenario might be before that game ala Earl bruce and let him go out as a sympathetic figure.  Hell OSU fans certainly love him, why not finish there?

uncleFred

November 5th, 2014 at 3:10 PM ^

Assuming that "the greatest coach in college football" hasn't agreed to come and be Michigan's head coach prior to "The Game" then winning that game might just make keeping Hoke a better choice than some other guy. So you wait to see how the team looks and plays. If the team plays well and demonstrates solid progress you probably want to see how they play in the bowl after 15 more practices.

One thing is certain, if he is 6-5 going in you don't fire Hoke before Ohio unless you have already at least privately lined up his replacement. 

sadeto

November 5th, 2014 at 3:24 PM ^

Be careful with the "...they should beat..." statements, some people around here said the same thing about Utah. Some of us pointed out that Utah, while not great, was a better team than us. So is Maryland. Playing in Ann Arbor in November will be a challenge for them, but their QB proved vs. West Virginia that he is up to challenges, even though they lost that game. This will be a game, not an gimme. 

Magnum P.I.

November 6th, 2014 at 10:33 AM ^

God bless you, man. If you still have thoughts of "we should beat" any Big Five conference team, then you harbor an incredibly capacity for hope. We lost to Minnesota and Rutgers. It's been a year since we won a road game. We're underdogs against Northwestern. "Should" is out the window.