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Let's Not And Say We Did

By Brian — March 24th, 2011 at 3:26 PM — 320 comments
Filed under:
  • brady hoke
  • brady hoke is the one true notriguez
  • column-type things
  • frank beckmann
  • pro-style fit
  • spread n shred

 denard-robinson-04jpg-6399aa0c7cd519fe_large bj-askew
Michigan's ground game stopped being effective in 1995.

I'm not sure if Jon Chait was reacting to the latest MANBALL quote from Brady Hoke or not, but when an article titled "You Can't Go Home Again" pops up the day after Michigan's new head coach says this:

"Once we get the power play down, then we'll go to the next phase. You know, because we're gonna run the power play."…

"We don't have a lot of fullbacks." Hopkins works out well at FB "for a lot of the old 49ers stuff" with split backs. Hoke wants fullbacks to block so hard they "come in at about 6-3, and leave the program at 6-1." …

It's hard to think otherwise. Of course, even ESPN folk have picked up on Hoke's love affair with the word "toughness"—the article could have been spurred by anything Hoke's said over the last three months. There are consistent reports that Hoke makes condescending comments about the spread at alumni events. Manball? Manball.

Some people love this. In my mind they all look like this…

image

yes, that's the Beckmann aficionado

…and could be coaching Purdue. I would not want to get in a conversation with any of these people because they would have very strong opinions about things they know nothing about. They would repeat inane aphorisms as if those were the final word on any subject, and they would regard any dispute as evidence of a diseased mind. I have talked to these people on the radio some. It's not fun. I close my eyes and imagine the exact dimensions and color of their mustaches. They are boringly consistent.

My hope is Hoke is a brilliant, innocent-as-snow delegator or a con man. He's got a quarterback who was an All-American as a true sophomore last year because of his legs. He's got an offensive coordinator whose track record suggests he prefers to air it out and that things get desperately bad when MANBALL advocates push him away from his mad bombing ways. He's got a set of running backs best described as underwhelming, a center who can teleport his way into tough reach blocks, and a guard who can block Manti Te'o twenty yards downfield. If the offseason could be spent fixing whatever it is that causes Robinson to turn the ball over willy-nilly, Michigan's offense would be insane. According to statistical things it already is.

Switching to an actual pro-style offense would be doing exactly what Michigan did last year when it installed the 3-3-5 despite the total unsuitability of its personnel for the scheme. It would be exactly as stupid. It can't be as bad statistically because instead of true freshman two star Ray Vinopal backed up by a duck, next to a walk on, and vaguely in front of more freshmen you have ten returning starters and Denard Robinson, but it would be just as dumb. If Hoke's bravado about being a bunch of tough bastards who love grinding out four yards on a power play is true I'm worried for the immediate and long term future of the program in the same way I was when hiring Greg Robinson caused me to dig out a picture of Tweek.

On the other hand, Beckmann aficionados love that stuff, and so do the newspapers that are no longer read by anyone other than Beckmann aficionados. English has developed lingo to distinguish words meant to be true from words meant to produce inoffensive newspaper blather: the latter is coachspeak. Rich Rodriguez was beyond awful at coachspeak. Hoke is a grand master. When IBM develops "Jim" and challenges Hoke to a duel, Watson-style, Hoke will destroy his opponent so badly smoke will come out of its nonexistent ears like that robot asked to rhyme something with "orange" in a story I read when I was eight. Hoke will lament Jim's lack of toughness.

This is a real skill the last three years have shown is way more important than you'd think. It's a relief when every press conference is Hoke being gently tickled on the belly and fed peeled grapes, and telling everyone you're establishing a mindset of toughness is fine. It's something that will help the program in the long run.

As long as you don't believe yourself. It won't help as much as winning a crapton of games, and even if the defense gets vastly better the best way to do that next year is to have an offense that puts up points, and the best way to do that is to very gently shift the offense towards your long term vision while still keeping Denard in the Heisman race.

This isn't 2008, when Michigan was screwed no matter what offense they put in. Getting Michigan's offense to go from explosive but inconsistent to world-destroying is a matter of getting a kicker, finding a good running back, working on Denard's reads and accuracy, and leaving everything else the hell alone. Michigan can't reasonably do that because they've got new coaches, but how hard is it to run a QB lead draw and follow that with QB Lead Oh Noes? The secret of Michigan's 2010 offense is that the zone read was hardly used. The other secret is it was a power running offense, one more effective than anything Michigan's run in at least the last decade and probably a lot longer.

Michigan YPC Career Leaders Since 1949 (min: 100 carries)

# Name Att Yds Yd/Att TD Lng From To
1t D. Robinson 325 2053 6.3 19 87 2009 2010
1t Jon Vaughn 226 1421 6.3 9 63 1989 1990
2 Kerry Smith 154 950 6.2 5 29 1980 1983
3 Tyrone Wheatley 688 4178 6.1 47 88 1991 1994
4 Tshimanga Biakabutuka 472 2810 6 24 60 1993 1995
5 Rob Lytle 557 3307 5.9 26 75 1973 1976
6 Allen Jefferson 175 1002 5.7 14 70 1987 1990

Michigan YPC, Team, Since 2001

# Year YPC
1 2010 5.58
2 2009 4.52
3 2006 4.27
4 2003 4.25
5 2007 3.97
6 2008 3.91
7 2005 3.89
8 2004 3.83
9 2002 3.82
10 2001 3.59

Borges should install his passing game immediately and Michigan should start running power schemes more frequently—power did feature occasionally last year—if they want to, but lining up under center to hand it off to Vincent Smith isn't going to be any better of an idea in 2011 than it was in 2010.

You can run a "pro-style" offense, but run it from the shotgun and run downhill using Denard Robinson as one of three primary tailbacks. You can't get rid of the scare quotes because he's Denard Robinson. If you do run a no-scare-quotes pro-style offense he's not Denard Robinson anymore. He's the guy handing off and you're walking back into the days where Michigan averaged less than four yards per carry and ran 65% of the time.

I think Borges knows this, but Hoke's coachspeak is going to make this the most terrifying spring game of all time.

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March 24th, 2011 at 4:54 PM | Disagree (Score:1)
michgoblue
michgoblue's picture
Joined: 11/16/2009
MGoPoints: 11210

Loved the writing style, as always.  Couldn't disagree with the content more.

1.  I know that many loved our offense last year, but in the end, running Denard so many times got him injured almost every game.  One day, one of those injuries is going to be serious, and keep him our for more than a few plays.

2.  The offense last year put WAY too much on Denard.  He was asked to throw 30 times amd run 20+ times.  Again, too much focus on one guy, and if he goes down (again, as he did almost every game), we are in some serious trouble.

3.  While I know that this will not be well received by some (Ziff, Brian, etc.), our offense was amazing against crappy teams, moved the ball well but couldn't score when the game was close against decent teams, and completely ineffective against good teams.  I, for one, would take an offense that is was less statistically dominant, but which can put up more than 7 points against OSU.

4.  Running backs - I wouldn't sell them so short as to call them underwhelming.  Smith and Shaw, perhaps.  But Hopkins is a beast - he looked decent last year AS A TRUE FRESHMAN.  I can't wait to see what he can do in a power set with some experience under his belt.  Cox has all of the tools to be a monster RB - he just needs to learn the offense.  Fitz is about as hyped as any recent RB at Michigan - he just neds to be healthy enough to see the field and we might have a star. 

Overall, I guess that for the next year, there will probably be a divide amongst those that loved last years offense and believed that we were only a few tweeks away from being Oregonesque and those (like me) that believed that our offense really wasn'y suited to compete against the upper tier B10 teams and welcome the change.  Both groups have valid (and some invalid) reasons for their belief.  Regardless, I trust our current coaches and think that they will make the right calls.

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March 24th, 2011 at 7:04 PM | 1.  Running Denard 20 times (Score:1)
DustomaticGXC
DustomaticGXC's picture
Joined: 10/05/2010
MGoPoints: 582

1.  Running Denard 20 times won't get him hurt any quicker than running Michael Shaw 20 times would get him hurt.  Is running Michael Shaw 20 times a game "too much"?  If you're not using your best weapon because you're afraid of hurting him, he shouldn't be playing football and you shouldn't be coaching football.

 

2.  Denard went down several times last year and I can't remember a single one of them where the offense sputtered.  Seems to me that the offense was fine with or without Denard.

 

3.  How many points did Henne, Hart, and Co. put up against OSU when they were all seniors?

 

4.  Injuries.  Hopkins won't do any better this season than he did last season, regardless of scheme, if he is nursing injuries again.  None of the RB's will.  If you think a change in blocking scheme and coachspeak is going to magically make the running backs more productive any more than a year of experience and health will, well, God bless you.

 

Overall, your post is pretty much garbage.  Still with the "RR's offense won't work in the Big Ten" after breaking so many records with mostly sophomores on the field.  "Turning the ball over 3 times a game won't work in the Big Ten" is what you really mean, right?

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March 24th, 2011 at 7:55 PM | Speaking of garbage (Score:1)
M-Wolverine
M-Wolverine's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 38826

1. When Shaw isn't running it 20 times he isn't passing it another 20.



2. You do know Tate is gone, don't you?



3. See your reason for 4.

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

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March 25th, 2011 at 1:34 AM | Kinda pathetic (Score:1)
DustomaticGXC
DustomaticGXC's picture
Joined: 10/05/2010
MGoPoints: 582

1.  No, he's not.  He's running a route or blocking somebody bigger than he is. 

 

2.  Did you see Devin play?  I did.  He didn't suck.

 

3.  An injury that limits your production isn't the same as an injury that keeps you entirely off the field.  There is no more excuse for scoring 3 points in 2007 than there is for scoring 7, 10, and 7 the last 3 years.  In fact, I'd say it's much worse than all but this season's output.

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March 24th, 2011 at 8:17 PM | Poor comparison (Score:1)
The Barwis Effect
The Barwis Effect's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2244

Michael Shaw can take breathers.

Denard can't.

"[T]here were a lot of people predicting glorious heights for Rich; mostly the same people who are predicting doom and gloom [for Hoke]. Excuse me if I doubt their prognostication skills." -- M-Wolverine

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March 25th, 2011 at 1:26 AM | Sure he can. (Score:1)
DustomaticGXC
DustomaticGXC's picture
Joined: 10/05/2010
MGoPoints: 582

It's called a handoff.

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March 25th, 2011 at 1:52 PM | While standing on the sidelines? (Score:1)
The Barwis Effect
The Barwis Effect's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2244

Interesting.

"[T]here were a lot of people predicting glorious heights for Rich; mostly the same people who are predicting doom and gloom [for Hoke]. Excuse me if I doubt their prognostication skills." -- M-Wolverine

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March 24th, 2011 at 7:59 PM | The divide: people on MGoBlog- (Score:1)
M-Wolverine
M-Wolverine's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 38826

-Everybody else. I don't think you'll get a lot of teeth gnashing beyond these pages. I mean losing will, but that has nothing to do with the offense, or coach. Lose and you're in trouble.

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

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March 24th, 2011 at 4:58 PM | Reality: the talk is the walk when coaching Michigan (Score:1)
NateVolk
NateVolk's picture
Joined: 07/19/2010
MGoPoints: 3827

Brian notes: Rodriguez is awful at coach speak and Hoke is the "grand master".  Absolutely!  I doubt anyone would disagree.  To deny effectively relating to recruits, the media, and the fan base is necessary for being a successful head football coach at Michigan, is to deny the necessity of oxygen in useful breathable air.

Beyond that, no one knows who is the better football coach and only 1 guy currently has the opportunity to show his skill level.  A guy made a point on here yesterday that Rich and Hoke have a strikingly similar record the last 5 years. We should probably step out of our cocoon a bit. For every excuse apologists can cook up for Rich's results at Michigan, there are Hoke supporters who can make his previous 5 years at BSU and SDSU seem like the work of Frank Leahy. That's the relative nature of comparing two men in the same profession.

Brian's a great writer. These negative posts about Hoke are a combination of disagreement with something that is already done and a lack of wider perspective.  Welcome to the world of message boards. That probably describes all of us in some way.

Bottom line: perception is reality to a great degree when leading a big time program. No sense griping that Hoke gets that and is trying to make our team better using that skill.

"because character wins in life and character wins on the football field....."  1-11-11

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March 24th, 2011 at 8:04 PM | If you adjust for the NVQ (Score:1)
El Jeffe
El Jeffe's picture
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 6712

If you adjust for the NVQ (Nate Volk Quotient), his was a completely even-handed post. In fact, once you account for the NVQ, it was actually 25% in favor of RichRod and 25% against Hoke.

BOOM STATISTIC'D

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March 24th, 2011 at 5:05 PM | Brian can you quit your whining and wait at least until sept? (Score:1)
rcrichlo
Joined: 09/16/2010
MGoPoints: 36

Brian, 

We had RR for 3 years and he put together one of the worst coaching records in UM history. I don't give a crap what our RB YPC were last season at the end of the day all that matters is W and L's....and we had WAY too many L's. I don't care if RR wasn't given a fair shake. RR is gone, so lets stop beating the dead horse and move on. PLEASE.

Lets give the coaching staff a chance before you climb to the roof of the building and start yelling about RB YPC in a 7-6 win season that saw UM get DESTROYED vs. OSU and in the bowl game. Borges has REPEATEDLY said he is going to work with the talent we have and has lauded Denards running ability. He's said he wants him to have 1000yds rushing. Whats wrong with that? Why do you care if Denard gets 2000yds rushing or he gets 1000 and another back gets 1000???? again lets give the coaches a chance to work with the players. Sure RR wasn't given this chance BUT YOU CAN'T GO BACK AND CHANGE THAT. JUDGING THIS COACHING STAFF BEFORE THEY DO ANYTHING ON THE FIELD ISN'T GOING TO MAKE IT ANY BETTER EITHER OR SUDDENLY MAKE EVERYONE FEEL DIFFERENTLY ABOUT RR.

Finally, games ARE NOT WON AND LOST BASED ON YARDS. Stop clinging to the stats that make you feel good. The only stats that matter are Wins and losses. I'm sick and tired about hearing about these gaudy stats that UM had last year. 

 

 

 

 

 

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March 24th, 2011 at 5:15 PM | Wow. (Score:1)
Alton
Joined: 07/05/2008
MGoPoints: 990

Fine, the only stats that matter are wins and losses.  Do wins and losses spring fully formed from Tim Tebow's head, or is there maybe something that leads to wins and losses?  And maybe that something is measurable as well?

But let's stop talking about that, because rcrichlo is "sick and tired" about hearing about what creates wins and losses, and he has commanded us to stop with his fancy capital letters and sentences ending with 4 question marks.  We will be much better and more intelligent if we follow rcrichlo's instructions and stop talking about things he doesn't give a crap about.

 

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March 24th, 2011 at 5:31 PM | Um, I think his point is that (Score:1)
MGoAero
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Joined: 03/16/2009
MGoPoints: 619

Um, I think his point is that the stats that people in these parts often trot out don't correlate to wins so why keep bringing them up?  Those stats are often brought up in a vacuum, only looking at the rosy side of last year. 

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March 24th, 2011 at 5:39 PM | Um. (Score:1)
Alton
Joined: 07/05/2008
MGoPoints: 990

Um. 

Um,  I know exactly what his point is.  Um, if you claim that yards per play and total yards don't correlate with wins and losses, you are flat out wrong.  Um, the offense was good, and the defense was bad.  Um, the defense was very very bad.  Um, the defense was so bad that it hid the quality of the offense.  Um, I also just discovered that typing "um" before a statement doesn't do anything to prove my argument.

Um, my alma mater is often referred to as "UM".

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March 24th, 2011 at 5:47 PM | are you fucking 12yrs old? (Score:1)
rcrichlo
Joined: 09/16/2010
MGoPoints: 36

Everyone, if I'm ever on the same side of an argument as this idiot please shoot me. haha. I'm not gonna reply anymore to you b/c I don't want this turning into some stupid internet argument. PLus you literally sound like your 12.

 

Anyways, I just felt the need to call out Brian and others who continue to cling to meaningless stats. We all want to win, lets give the new coaching staff a chance. Even if you don't want to b/c your still mad about RR....I know some hear me other think I'm crazy for accepting the fact that RR was gone.

I challenge anyone that was at that bowl game last season vs. Miss state (in person) that left and didn't see the need for change. UM and RR had nothing left. Time to move on.

 

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March 24th, 2011 at 6:26 PM | Too late (Score:1)
DutchWolverine
Joined: 01/09/2011
MGoPoints: 233

"I don't want this turning into some stupid Internet argument."

Too late.

Keep the change ya filthy animal.

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March 24th, 2011 at 7:13 PM | First Post (Score:1)
Seattle Maize
Seattle Maize's picture
Joined: 03/24/2011
MGoPoints: 267

Hey everyone, this is my first post here after reading the blog for the last couple years.  Anyways, I agree 100% with rcrichlo.  I was a huge supporter of RR and would have loved if he worked out but the fact is that he never hired good defensive coaches and his offense never did anything against the teams that mattered.  While they put up some impressive stats they only ran a few plays and were really predictable.  I dont think that with another year the offense would have been able to compensate for the terrible defense and they would only have won 8 or 9 games this year with RR

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March 24th, 2011 at 8:36 PM | Obviously (Score:1)
PeterKlima
Joined: 08/24/2008
MGoPoints: 1424

Its obvious that RR had to leave.  Brian understood that.  no one is arguing that he be brought back.  No one is "still mad" that he was fired.  It is accepted.

The question is whether you "throw out the baby with the bath water" and force an old-school pro-style offense on these spread players.

Obviously you do not.  The failure to understand things like forcing a system that doesn't fit did RR in.

Way to make your argument against people who want the fired coach back (no one) instead of against the new regime making mistakes AS EXHIBITED by their press conference clippings.

 

You are obviously not too bright because you can't see the difference between wanting RR back and wanting to keep a good portion of his plays (which were non-read option).  THAT is what the press conferences sound like.  That is what is being railed against.

 

Also, statistics are obviously predictors of outcomes and they tell you about the details of "what is working and what isn't" on a team.  Think a little bit more before roaring off on a stupid, uneducated overbroad opinion of "statistics."

Basically, you are an idiot.

 

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March 24th, 2011 at 9:04 PM | double post. (Score:1)
rcrichlo
Joined: 09/16/2010
MGoPoints: 36

double post.

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March 24th, 2011 at 9:03 PM |   Its obvious that RR had (Score:1)
rcrichlo
Joined: 09/16/2010
MGoPoints: 36

 

Its obvious that RR had to leave.  Brian understood that.  no one is arguing that he be brought back.  No one is "still mad" that he was fired.  It is accepted.

^^^This is completely false. I see numerous post stating: 

"why couldn't we just keep RR and bring in a top notch DC like Mattison". 

"we are returning X amount of players on O. Just make some field goals and we win 11 games next year"

"our YPC was better in 2010 then any group Carr ever had. Our offensive was explosive and if we can just hold the other team to 50ppg we'll win"

blah blah

These people did NOT want RR gone. These people were the majority on this blog...but thats slowly crumbling away. After watching the bowl game in person this year I had had enough too.

 

You are obviously not too bright because you can't see the difference between wanting RR back and wanting to keep a good portion of his plays (which were non-read option).  THAT is what the press conferences sound like.  That is what is being railed against

What part of of Borges comments talking about Drob rushing for 1000yds do you or other stat junkies not understand? He wants DRob to run. He just wants our RUNNING BACKS to run too. You know so DRob can do that passing thing and keep D's honest and keep DRob HEALTHY.

Borges goes on about of his athletic ability, comparing him to Vick. He has openly said they ran quite a bit of shotgun last season at SDSU. How do you not like any of this? Have you seen SDSU's RB from lasy year? Have you seen their games? I'm guessing all the sky is falling stat junkies have NOT.

 

And yes I spit on stat junkies arguments that take moral victories in "racking up 100 more yds on OSU last year then they allowed on average". Who gives a fuck!?! What was the score.

Our how about another moral victory about how many more yards we got on Iowa then their season average...again. Who gives a fuck?

 

Call me an idiot thats fine. I'll call stat junkies what the are...probably people who never played a legit sport (let alone football) in their entire life. Frankly I don't know why we spend so much time takling about offense at all on this site. With the dynamic players we have (DRob is the best athlete at UM in generations) the O will be fine. We should be spending every post talking about the terrible defense. We don;t do that though do we...Why? B/c that makes RR look bad. 

 

 

 

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March 24th, 2011 at 9:34 PM | Okay, I think everyone gets (Score:1)
bleedzblue
bleedzblue's picture
Joined: 09/03/2009
MGoPoints: 1146

Okay, I think everyone gets you're point. You hate stat junkies, enough already.

HAIL TO THE VICTORS VALIANT, HAIL TO THE CONQUERING HEROES!

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March 24th, 2011 at 5:35 PM | cling to meaningless stats if you want (Score:1)
rcrichlo
Joined: 09/16/2010
MGoPoints: 36

its just annoying. I'm glad plenty of people in this thread are tired of hearing Brian's complaining like a jilted lover. RR is GONE. Time to move on.

Make as many charts as you want about how great his scheme was but it didn't get the W's. PERIOD.

UM had great YPC thats nice. I bet there were plenty of years on that chart that had more than 7 W's and 7 points vs OSU. I'll take that over great YPC any day of the week.

You stat junkies can't see the forest from the trees. I bet if you look at the combined stats for the UCONN game and the OSU game you get some pretty nice numbers...well news flash. The yards and pts vs. UCONN don't count for shit against OSU...so lets stop beating our chest about OOC steam rolling of inferior squads. Lets stop acting like bad luck was all that was in the way of endless 64-42 victories for UM from here to 2015.

 

 

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March 24th, 2011 at 6:24 PM | Stats except wins don't (Score:1)
gbdub
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Joined: 02/16/2010
MGoPoints: 2468

Stats except wins don't matter and you don't want to hear about them. Fine. Explain how putting Denard under center leads to more wins.

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March 24th, 2011 at 9:45 PM | I believe Denard won quite a (Score:1)
carlosspicyweiner
carlosspicyweiner's picture
Joined: 09/29/2010
MGoPoints: 399

I believe Denard won quite a few games under center in high school.

"Tears are salty.  Sweat is salty.  One gets you pity, the other gets you results"  

 

-Former Michigan soccer coach Steve Burns

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March 24th, 2011 at 7:55 PM | Exactly (Score:1)
kylebennett7127
Joined: 08/18/2008
MGoPoints: 148

Exactly

Hot girls we have problems too. We're just like you. Except we're hot.

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March 24th, 2011 at 5:32 PM | Only stats that matter (Score:1)
Hail-Storm
Hail-Storm's picture
Joined: 06/07/2010
MGoPoints: 2382

are wins and losses?

Then what are we going to dowith 47-50?

 

"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest." -Mark Twain


 

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March 24th, 2011 at 7:19 PM | u mad (Score:1)
cbuswolverine
Joined: 08/14/2008
MGoPoints: 1766

u mad

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March 24th, 2011 at 5:10 PM | WOW, just WOW (Score:1)
Wolv54
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Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 98

I think there is a legitimate concern that a pro style offense would handcuff your best playmaker, but no matter how many times the staff talks about how they intend to use Denard's abilities to the fullest extent, Brian seems to think that MANBALL quotes from Hoke trump all other comments.  The truth is that when Michigan needed a tough yard in the last 3 years, it was very difficult for them to get it in league play.  Maybe there is or isn't a beloved chart or graph for that, but ask yourself how long you held your own breathe on 3rd and 1 inside the 30 yard line of the opponent knowing we couldn't kick a field goal. 

Another misconception on the message boards is that while we are going to single blocking that we've thrown out the zone blocking.  All teams use both single blocking and zone schemes these days.  The difference is that we'll feature single blocking and mix in zone versus the inverse we've had the last of the LC years and all of RR.  Both have their strengths and weaknesses and one is not superior to the other if used in the right context.

Many have already reported that the QB power is part of the package, bootlegs, zone reads, and other Denard friendly plays are in the offense as practice reports have trickled out.  I think round pegs are going into round holes on both sides of the ball, which is a nice change to what we've seen as a defense for the last 2 years. 

To a football coach, it is always better when the QB has other players take some of the load and what the charts tell me is that we need to get Denard some help.  Another point Brian didn't mention for whatever reason is that teams cannot scheme a pro style offense with Denard like they did the spread offense.  Against inferior talent, Denard was unstoppable.  Against the upper echelon of Big Ten teams he was mortal.  Teams attacked off the edge to force Denard to make decisions rapidly in the read game.  They can't do that as easily in a pro style offense insomuch as the offense is not 100% QB-centric.  If Denard's passing and the RBs prove that defenses have to respect all 11 guys out there, then he'll have moments to exploit that within the framework of the offense.  I'm sure the stats will go down, but at the same time, if the offense can be efficient and chew some clock and the defense proves to be competent, then the wins will come.  I would trade a throttled down offense for a competent defense anyday because the last two years have been brutual to watch and there was never a Saturday that I thought we couldn't lose except Delaware State.  How explosive was that offense against UMASS?  As a defensive coach, I would fear Denard more in the pro style offense if he can beat you with his arm because I would have to account for him which leaves me short on the backend.  Playing man free or cover 1 against a pro style is very high risk.  Playing cover 2, cover 3, or quads leaves to much room for him and the RBs.  If I had to defend him in the spread, I would use edge pressure and hope my guys could get him on the ground consistently.  By pressuring him, I can play those zones because I am cutting down his time to read and throw with my pressure(hopefully).

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March 24th, 2011 at 6:08 PM | Holding you breath (Score:1)
saveferris
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Joined: 07/02/2009
MGoPoints: 3089

<blockquote>Maybe there is or isn't a beloved chart or graph for that, but ask yourself how long you held your own breathe on 3rd and 1 inside the 30 yard line of the opponent knowing we couldn't kick a field goal.</blockquote>

In 2008, a long time

In 2009, not very long, until the Illinois game, then somewhat long

In 2010, not at all.

There was a lot that didn't go right under Rodriguez in his three years here, but can we at least stop pretending that none of the team made any progress in that time?

 

"...what do you say, is it the new Bluesmobile or what?"

"Fix the cigarette lighter."

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March 24th, 2011 at 6:32 PM | I didn't mention RR (Score:1)
Wolv54
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Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 98

I didn't mention RR and to be fair, I loved watching his offense last year.  RR's offenses broke almost all of the single game records for receiving and QB rushing, points per game, etc.  Nor did I say he didn't make progress here when it is undeniable his offense did.  I would have been more than fine with RR if he was still the coach, but you cannot pretend that the defense regressed every single year and also broke records on par with the ones broken by the offense.  You can't applaud the offense in a vaccuum and not take the defense with it.

I have watched all of the games from last year a dozen times or more and I think you're either overly confident or forgetful of our success in short yardage situations.  One of the most ciritcal aspect of short yardage is coming off the ball and getting push up front to reestablish the LOS beyond the marker.  We were not good at doing that, especially in league play. 

As a defensive guy, I really don't care what offense we run as long as it is efficient and has the ability to sustain drives and chew the clock, not just score points.  The reason is that the more snaps my defense sees, the more I have to engage in games of rock, paper, scissors, and no defense can stop everything.  By keeping those snaps at a lower number, the better my odds are to play to convention. 

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March 24th, 2011 at 8:12 PM | Word (Score:1)
M-Wolverine
M-Wolverine's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 38826

Any offense can work, and you can win with it. But it's a rare occurrence that you can win anything without great D. I wish there had been as much obsession and statistical analysis and worry about defense as love for offense. Give me a great defense. Then you can run whatever offense you like.

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

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March 24th, 2011 at 8:59 PM | I don't dispute that the (Score:1)
saveferris
saveferris's picture
Joined: 07/02/2009
MGoPoints: 3089

I don't dispute that the reason Rich Rodriguez lost his job was because he and his coaching staff completely failed to construct a passable defensive unit in his 3 years here.  The problem I see with a large share of the comments on this thread though is that many are answering the question "Rich Rodriguez deserved to be fired because of {BLANK}" with "the offense wasn't very good", which is a ludicrous point.

 

"...what do you say, is it the new Bluesmobile or what?"

"Fix the cigarette lighter."

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March 24th, 2011 at 5:19 PM | Better tell you this now, so (Score:1)
Seth
Seth's picture
Joined: 10/14/2008
MGoPoints: 48306

Better tell you this now, so you're not disappointed later.

Sometime after you marry that girl, you will be confronted by something much more powerful in an argument than facts backed by reason. These are "feelings." Feelings trump all argument because they have mystical powers. When you confront these feelings, do not turn to science or logic or ironclad proof -- she doesn't care about the argument itself but whether or not you're willing to put all logic aside once in awhile so she doesn't have to go through life pretending like she isn't 10% crazy (or have that 10% pop out somewhere else in her life).

This is all a way of saying everyone is actually irrational in our own ways, and we are incapable of ever seeing it. Most of us accept this and do most of our existing in spheres where we can be rational, but like wives when they're with their husbands, sometimes we all need to go to our irrational places and JUST BE LISTENED TO DAMMIT!

I think for men, a lot of us use sports (many others use politics) as the place to expel that 10% of our minds that doesn't want to think straight. Granted, some people can be completely irrational 90% of the time, but I would guess the overwhelming bulk of the supposed idiots tickling the Hoke belly for toughness quotes are here because Sports for most is just a vacation from reality.

(Blogger alias: "Misopogon") This team is under construction. We thank you for your patience.

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March 24th, 2011 at 5:25 PM | Since being under center is (Score:1)
stillMichigan
stillMichigan's picture
Joined: 09/05/2009
MGoPoints: 1822

Since being under center is something Denard hasn't done in awhile,it makes sense he would practice there.Initially,  I had the same reaction as Brian with the power play manball comments by Hoke, but that will just be one facet of our offense and one that I believe is key in redzone situations and late in a game with a lead.  It's basic. Hoke is concentrating on teaching the basics first, what's wrong with that.

Personally, I think getting Denard away from taking a pounding with 25+ carries is a good thing and will make him even more dangerous late in games and keep him on the field entire games. The pounding he took was taking a toll on his passing game IME, something RR would never admit.

I'm gonna venture to guess that his 6.3 ypc goes up this year.

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March 24th, 2011 at 6:39 PM | I dunno, (Score:1)
M-Dog
M-Dog's picture
Joined: 07/06/2008
MGoPoints: 6368

it just looks so awkward with Denard under Center.

Kinda like a Shriner on one of those little motorcycles.

M'Dog

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March 24th, 2011 at 9:03 PM | Imagine how awkward it's (Score:1)
saveferris
saveferris's picture
Joined: 07/02/2009
MGoPoints: 3089

Imagine how awkward it's going to look when Denard and the offense take the field for the first time and huddle up....{groan}

 

"...what do you say, is it the new Bluesmobile or what?"

"Fix the cigarette lighter."

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March 24th, 2011 at 5:29 PM | Yeesh, we could call it (Score:1)
Magnus
Magnus's picture
Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 27464

Yeesh, we could call it "manball" or the "power play" or "inside runs" or "three yards and a cloud of dust."  Frankly, we could call it "sucking cock," too.  Whatever we call it, I really don't give a rat's ass, as long as it's effective.

If Michigan is good at "sucking cock" this fall, I will be very happy.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 20

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March 24th, 2011 at 5:46 PM | Seconded (Score:1)
hvsiii
hvsiii's picture
Joined: 08/18/2010
MGoPoints: 780

Interesting ....but HARD to argue with. 

Anyway, I just want wins. 

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March 24th, 2011 at 9:48 PM | i stopped reading the thread at this point (Score:1)
DaytonBlue
DaytonBlue's picture
Joined: 12/08/2009
MGoPoints: 952

because it just got too stupid.  brian, take a damn valium.

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March 24th, 2011 at 5:50 PM | ....god I love it when we (Score:1)
kylebennett7127
Joined: 08/18/2008
MGoPoints: 148

....god I love it when we suck cock

Hot girls we have problems too. We're just like you. Except we're hot.

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March 24th, 2011 at 9:49 PM | ummm.... (Score:1)
RDubs
RDubs's picture
Joined: 09/09/2008
MGoPoints: 310

is it okay if we don't call it that???

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March 24th, 2011 at 5:31 PM | Good post Brian. (Score:1)
TIMMMAAY
TIMMMAAY's picture
Joined: 09/08/2008
MGoPoints: 5951

Good post Brian.

not just "douchey" MGoBlog user, but now TRUSTED MGoBlog user

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March 24th, 2011 at 6:05 PM | Man - leave your phone at (Score:1)
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 12590

Man - leave your phone at home for a day and you miss a clusterfrick.

Honestly, I'm done trying to parse coachspeak, and while I understand Brian's concerns with Hoke's off-handed dismissal of a legitimate offensive scheme and a return to some amalgram of 3rd-down bombs and 3-yard dives, but at this point it is time to just wait.  It sucks as a fanbase to have no idea how the team that muddled through 7-6 will be under a sub-.500 coach, but getting worked up over Freep Fellatio and some all caps offensive philosophies won't help anyone. 

Personally, I expect a return to the offenses we saw under Carr - full of NFL-sized players running schemes that mash up average defenses and have trouble working against elite defenses.  So basically, what we saw last year with RR's offense, though maybe with less total yardage. 

This team, like all elite squads, will live and die with its defense, and so the focus should be less on how Denard will be under-utilized (because he almost undoubtedly will) and more on how Mattison, Hoke, and co. will ressurect a unit that has been between abysmal and walking-in-on-your-parents-doing-it-on-a-Krusty-the-Clown-themed-sex-swing since 2006.  That crater on defense was what killed RR, and what will kill Hoke regardless of if he runs pro-style, spread, triple-option, or "suck cock."

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March 24th, 2011 at 6:21 PM | 2010: most terrifying? (Score:1)
bvb24
Joined: 09/09/2010
MGoPoints: 79

How could this year be more terrifying than 2008?  Changing RR's offense for SDSU's offense is far easier than changing a pro style to a read option attack.

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March 24th, 2011 at 6:35 PM | Pathetic (Score:1)
mgolf4
Joined: 11/20/2009
MGoPoints: 522

You crucify the fanbase for not getting behind a coach and then you spew out this crap before the team has even played a single game, before he has finished his first spring practice. You are a hypocrite and you need to get over yourself. Your blog has a lot of great content but currently none of it is coming from you. None of this nonsense is helping our beloved school in any way. At this point I am dreading this season on the blog if you continue on this path. 

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March 24th, 2011 at 7:08 PM | So what you are saying is (Score:1)
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 12590

So what you are saying is critical discussion about a coaches' philosophy (man, where have I heard that argument before) is the euivalent of being an uninformed hater?  Good to know.

This is what I don't get about the internet - if you don't like something, don't read it.  I don't always agree with Brian, but I don't go on this board to call him an idiot and say how dumb it was to read something. 

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March 24th, 2011 at 7:22 PM | Cawfee (Score:1)
mgolf4
Joined: 11/20/2009
MGoPoints: 522

How am I supposed to know if I am going to like something before I read it? Also, I didn't call Brian an idiot, I referred to his post as hypocritical and pathetic. 

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March 24th, 2011 at 7:54 PM | Sorry - to me saying what (Score:1)
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 12590

Sorry - to me saying what someone wrote is hypocritical and pathetic is close enough to idiot for the jump to be made.

But either way, the thrust of the article was pretty clear in the first couple of paragraphs, so it wasn't a major curveball thrown by Brian in his presentation.

To my greater point, I have no problem with people taking issue with anyone else's opinion on this page, but do it with some constructive criticism and facts/arguments that support your viewpoint, not inflammatory comments about your personal opinion of a writer and his/her views.

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March 25th, 2011 at 1:47 AM | Bravo (Score:1)
joeburner82
Joined: 01/19/2010
MGoPoints: 197

You are a true humanitarian.....good for you!

Would anyone care for some hot chocolate, a cookie, or an apple?

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March 24th, 2011 at 6:39 PM | Disagree (Score:1)
Wolverine90
Wolverine90's picture
Joined: 10/02/2008
MGoPoints: 157

Disagree big time with Brian on this one.  How many points did we put up against OSU last year with "all the offensive pieces"?  7.  After our first drive, how many did we put up against Miss St. while they were scoring 52?  7.  Against MSU? 17.  In just about all the key games, the "high powered" offense shat a brick.  If they had averaged 30 against those teams then Brian would have a leg to stand on here, but they didn't, so personally I have no problem watching Hoke and Borges work the offense into their system with the pieces they have.

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