Home
we had subs it was crazy

Primary links

  • About
    • $upport (lol)
    • Ethics
    • FAQ
    • Privacy Policy
  • Contact
  • MGoStore
  • MGoBoard
    • MGoBoard FAQ
    • Ticket spreadsheet
    • Michigan bar locator
    • Moderator Action Sticky
  • Useful Stuff
    • Depth Chart By Class
    • Unofficial Two Deep
    • 2013 Offer Board
    • Crude Bug Tracking System
    • Third Down Stats
    • Diaries, Windows Live Writer, And You
    • Michigan Future Schedules
    • User-Curated HOF
    • 2013 Recruiting Board
    • Where To Eat In Ann Arbor
Home

Navigation

  • Forums
  • Recent posts

User login

  • Create new account
  • Request new password

MGoElsewhere

  • @MGoBlog (Brian)
  • @aceanbender
  • @TomVH (Tom)
  • RSS Feed
  • iPhone App
  • Facebook profile
  • MGoKindle Store
  • mgo.licio.us
  • Brian @ TSB [Archive]
  • Brian @ AOL [Archive]
  • Sour Salty Bitter Sweet

Michigan Blogs

  • Big House Blog
  • Burgeoning Wolverine Star
  • Genuinely Sarcastic
  • Go Blue Michigan Wolverine
  • Holdin' The Rope
  • MGoFootball
  • MVictors
  • Maize 'n' Blue Nation
  • Maize 'n' Brew
  • Maize And Go Blue
  • Michigan Hockey Net
  • The Blog That Yost Built
  • The Hoover Street Rag
  • The M Block
  • The M Zone
  • The Wolverine Blog
  • Touch The Banner
  • UMGoBlog
  • UMHoops
  • UMTailgate
  • Wolverine Liberation Army

M On The Net

  • mgovideo
  • MGoBlue.com
  • Mike DeSimone
  • Recruiting Planet
  • The Wolverine
  • Go Blue Wolverine
  • Winged Helmet
  • UMGoBlue.com
  • MaizeRage.org
  • Puckhead
  • The M Den
  • True Blue Fan Forum

Big Ten Blogs

  • Illinois
    • A Lion Eye
    • Hail To The Orange
    • Illinois Baseball Report
    • Illinois Loyalty
  • Indiana
    • Inside The Hall
    • The Crimson Quarry
  • Iowa
    • Black Heart, Gold Pants
    • Fight For Iowa
  • Michigan State
    • The Only Colors
  • Minnesota
    • GopherHole.com
    • The Daily Gopher
    • I'm In Love With A Fringe Bowl Team
    • TNABACG
  • Nebraska
    • Big Red Network
    • Corn Nation
    • Husker Mike's Blasphemy
    • Husker Gameday
  • Northwestern
    • Sippin' On Purple
    • Lake The Posts
  • Notre Dame
    • The House Rock Built
    • One Foot Down
  • Ohio State
    • Eleven Warriors
    • Buckeye Commentary
    • Men of the Scarlet and Gray
    • Our Honor Defend
    • The Buckeye Nine
  • Penn State
    • Slow States
    • Black Shoe Diaries
    • Happy Valley Hardball
    • Penn State Clips
    • Linebacker U
    • Nittany White Out
  • Purdue
    • Boiled Sports
    • Hammer and Rails
  • Wisconsin
    • Bruce Ciskie

Links of Note

  • Baseball
    • Big Ten Hardball
    • College Baseball Today
    • The Baseball Zealot
    • The College Baseball Blog
  • Basketball
    • Ken Pomeroy
    • Basketball Prospectus
    • Midmajority
  • College Hockey
    • Chris Heisenberg
    • College Hockey Stats
    • Inside College Hockey
    • Michigan College Hockey
    • Hockey's Future
    • Sioux Sports
    • USCHO
    • Western College Hockey
    • CCHA
      • LSSU Hockey
      • Bronco Hockey Blog
  • Football
    • Smart Football
    • Every Day Should Be Saturday
    • Doctor Saturday
    • CFB Stats
    • Harold Stassen
    • NCAA D-I Stats Page
    • The Wizard Of Odds
  • General
    • Sports Central
  • Local Interest
    • The Ann Arbor Chronicle
    • Arborwiki
    • Arbor Update
    • Teeter Talk
    • Vacuum
  • Teams Of The D
    • Lions
      • Pride of Detroit
      • Fire Millen
    • Pistons
      • Detroit Bad Boys
      • Need4Sheed
    • Tigers
      • Roar Of The Tigers
      • The Detroit Tigers Weblog
      • The Daily Fungo
    • Red Wings
      • On The Wings
      • Behind The Jersey
      • Winging It In Motown
    • Michigan Sports Forum

Archive

  • May 2013 (55)
  • April 2013 (94)
  • March 2013 (104)
  • February 2013 (81)
  • January 2013 (93)
  • December 2012 (74)
  • November 2012 (142)
  • October 2012 (143)
  • September 2012 (107)
  • August 2012 (103)
  •  
  • 1 of 11
  • ››

Get Yer Tickets

Football Display Case

NFL Watches

Follow your favorite team with localtv-satellite.com: Click Here.

Site Search

Diaries

  • New
  • Popular
  • Hot
  • Does Expansion Actually Lead to More Recruits From a Certain Region?
    maizeonblueaction - 19 hours ago
  • Raiding the B1G-er Big Ten: Recruiting Prospects in Maryland and Rutgers Territory
    The Mathlete - 2 days ago
  • A Cynical Take on Why Expansion May be Dead for the Forseeable Future
    maizeonblueaction - 3 days ago
  • LIGHT IT UP, AGAIN. WALLPAPER
    jonvalk - 3 days ago
  • Using Rivals' Star Ratings To Look At Big Ten Football Recruiting: 2002-2013
    LSAClassOf2000 - 4 days ago
  •  
  • 1 of 4
  • ››
more
  • Using Rivals' Star Ratings To Look At Big Ten Football Recruiting: 2002-2013
    LSAClassOf2000 - 921 views
  • More Milford Men Than Michigan Men: Comparing the 11-12 and 12-13 Hockey Teams
    MGoBlueline - 798 views
  • UMich NFL draft history, Part III
    blueheron - 776 views
  • LIGHT IT UP, AGAIN. WALLPAPER
    jonvalk - 736 views
  • A Cynical Take on Why Expansion May be Dead for the Forseeable Future
    maizeonblueaction - 615 views
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more
  • Big Ten Recruiting Rankings 4-30-13
    Ace - 81 comments
  • Using Rivals' Star Ratings To Look At Big Ten Football Recruiting: 2002-2013
    LSAClassOf2000 - 19 comments
  • A Cynical Take on Why Expansion May be Dead for the Forseeable Future
    maizeonblueaction - 18 comments
  • LIGHT IT UP, AGAIN. WALLPAPER
    jonvalk - 17 comments
  • Raiding the B1G-er Big Ten: Recruiting Prospects in Maryland and Rutgers Territory
    The Mathlete - 13 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more

MGoBoard

  • New
  • Recent
  • Hot
  • Michigan wrestlers accused of Molotov cocktail possession suspended indefinitely
    14 replies
  • Who's Your Favorite Michigan QB?
    78 replies
  • Softball Super Regional v. Louisiana-Lafayette, game 1
    48 replies
  • Sam Webb write up on five-star center Elijah Thomas
    9 replies
  • There should be 110,000 Rubber Chickens at the ND Game
    30 replies
  • OT- Miguel Cabrera is good at baseball, visual proof
    26 replies
  • Michigan/Minnesota football - Oct 5 - 330 pm EST
    14 replies
  • Memorial Day Weekend (here for the) posbang thread
    106 replies
  • The Official SIAP Alan Branch Photoshop Thread
    29 replies
  • Which Pay Site Is Best?
    59 replies
  • OT: Star Trek + Dilithium = Esplode…. Esplode clarity
    26 replies
  • OT - ND paid Charlie more than Brian Kelly in 2012
    36 replies
  • Softball SuperRegionals Open Thread
    27 replies
  • OT: ESPN hires Paul Finebaum
    40 replies
  • OT: Red Wings vs Hawks Game 4 Open Thread
    193 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 7
  • ››
  • Michigan/Minnesota football - Oct 5 - 330 pm EST
    14 replies
  • Who's Your Favorite Michigan QB?
    78 replies
  • Michigan wrestlers accused of Molotov cocktail possession suspended indefinitely
    14 replies
  • The Official SIAP Alan Branch Photoshop Thread
    29 replies
  • Which Pay Site Is Best?
    59 replies
  • OT- Miguel Cabrera is good at baseball, visual proof
    26 replies
  • Softball Super Regional v. Louisiana-Lafayette, game 1
    48 replies
  • Memorial Day Weekend (here for the) posbang thread
    106 replies
  • Sam Webb write up on five-star center Elijah Thomas
    9 replies
  • Softball SuperRegionals Open Thread
    27 replies
  • There should be 110,000 Rubber Chickens at the ND Game
    30 replies
  • How much do you really hate ohio?
    146 replies
  • OT: ESPN hires Paul Finebaum
    40 replies
  • Scouting Report: Jabrill Peppers
    154 replies
  • Denard, other rookies discuss Star Trek
    58 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 7
  • ››
  • OT: Red Wings vs Hawks Game 3 Open Thread
    203 replies
  • OT: Red Wings vs Hawks Game 4 Open Thread
    193 replies
  • Scouting Report: Jabrill Peppers
    154 replies
  • OT - Official MGoBaby Thread (you got 'em, we want to see 'em)
    151 replies
  • How much do you really hate ohio?
    146 replies
  • Who should replace ND in a long-term series?
    144 replies
  • OT? Graduatin' Season. Who had the Worst Commencement Speaker?
    141 replies
  • Speight and TomVH on Peppers
    116 replies
  • OT: Red Wings @ Hawks Game 2 Open Thread
    114 replies
  • Prayers for Moore, Oklahoma
    112 replies
  • Memorial Day Weekend (here for the) posbang thread
    106 replies
  • 5 star 2013 DT may not be enrolling at Notre Dame
    93 replies
  • OT: NBA Draft Lottery
    78 replies
  • Who's Your Favorite Michigan QB?
    77 replies
  • ESPN 30 for 30 on the Bad Boys
    77 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 7
  • ››

mgo.licio.us

  • Burke says Michigan can be 'just as good' next year with McGary, Robinson III leading

    yes plz

    0 comments
  • SEC coaches with tiny faces

    I don't think they changed Les at all actually

    1 comments
  • This college baseball team is the best at postgame interviews

    national champs baby

    1 comments
  • Rounding up the latest in NCAA absurdities.

    Patrick Hruby is doing God's work.

    0 comments
  • Cornell wrestler tops Michigan's Trey Burke for Sports Illustrated award | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

    first comment: "EVERY ATHLETE HAS ASPIRATIONS OF WINNING AND WE HAVE OUR FAVORITES BUT IT IS ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO OTHER STUDENTS ACHIEVE THEIR GOALS, TOO!"

    0 comments
  • Burke hearing he'll go two through six in NBA draft

    stupid Pistons and their refusal to tank properly

    0 comments
  • 2013 NHL Draft Prospect: Andrew Copp

    rundown of Michigan's riser

    0 comments
  • Michigan's key returnee: Glenn Robinson

    needs moar usage

    0 comments
  • Former Arkansas QB Brandon Mitchell transferring to NC State

    so much for that

    0 comments
  • The B1G List: Ranking the State Fossils of the Big Ten

    This list is completely arbitrary and not a genuine analysis of the relative merits of state fossils.

    0 comments
  • Trey Burke turns to inner circle to prepare for NBA draft

    will be michigan's highest pick in a while

    2 comments
  • B1G assistant coach salaries on the rise

    money has to go somewhere

    0 comments
  • Tim Hardaway Jr. is motivated by his critics and doubters, and supremely confident in his ability

    I am only motivated by people who have no opinion about me.

    0 comments
  • Big Ten football procrastinates on parity-based scheduling, and nothing ever changes

    the just released schedules were a flat-out statement that the B10 doesn't believe SOS will matter in playoff selection

    1 comments
  • Michigan's Glenn Robinson III, Mitch McGary ranked inside top 20 on ESPN's 2014 draft board

    but I thought that draft was supposed to be incredibly loaded?

    1 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more

Jihad The Second: Practical Matters

By Brian — August 30th, 2009 at 12:59 PM — 66 comments
Filed under:
  • free press jihad
  • ncaa: the scandals

I made curried cabbage last night. It's a simple dish that, like most Indian dishes, can take as much butter as you're willing to risk and can be made in preposterous quantity. Basically: chop two large onions and around a head of garlic and sweat them in just under a stick of butter; add healthy amounts of turmeric, curry powder, cumin, and salt, then chop a head of cabbage and thinly slice some potatoes and throw them in; cook until everything's soft and glows like it's radioactive—

jihad-2006-2007-tercera-guerra-mundial-01lg  barwis

Oh, right. That. There are many thing to say about it and I guess I have to say them instead of working on the season preview as I intended to this fine Sunday. So we'll take them in slices. Slice the first will concern the possibility of NCAA infractions and starts now.

Rules

A reader has helpfully digested the NCAA rulebook into the salient sections:

17.02.13 Voluntary Athletically Related Activities. In order for any athletically related activity to be considered “voluntary,” all of the following conditions must be met: (Adopted: 4/18/01)

(a) The student-athlete must not be required to report back to a coach or other athletics department staff member (e.g., strength coach, trainer, manager) any information related to the activity. In addition, no athletics department staff member who observes the activity (e.g., strength coach, trainer, manager) may report back to the student-athlete’s coach any information related to the activity; [Editor's note: this has not been alleged.]

(b) The activity must be initiated and requested solely by the student-athlete. Neither the institution nor any athletics department staff member may require the student-athlete to participate in the activity at any time.

However, it is permissible for an athletics department staff member to provide information to student-athletes related to available opportunities for participating in voluntary activities (e.g., times when the strength and conditioning coach will be on duty in the weight room or on the track). In addition, for students who have initiated a request to engage in voluntary activities, the institution or an athletics department staff member may assign specific times for student-athletes to use institutional facilities for such purposes and inform the student-athletes of the time in advance; [Editor's note: a lot of noise about "required" in the article but these rules really require you to parse the semantics of "required"; playing time is voluntary, too.]

(c) The student-athlete’s attendance and participation in the activity (or lack thereof ) may not be recorded for the purposes of reporting such information to coaching staff members or other student-athletes; and [alleged]

(d) The student-athlete may not be subjected to penalty if he or she elects not to participate in the activity. In addition, neither the institution nor any athletics department staff member may provide recognition or incentives (e.g., awards) to a student-athlete based on his or her attendance or performance in the activity. [Former alleged, latter not.]

[Note: Coaching staff members may be present during permissible skill-related instruction pursuant to Bylaws 17.1.6.2.2 and 17.1.6.2.3]. (Revised: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04)

The emailer also suggests this:

As far as I can tell, the authors of the article invented the rule about "quality-control staff" not being permitted to observe voluntary off-season scrimmages.  The rules about voluntary activities clearly mention athletics department staff observing, and the following rule disallows observing "nonorganized voluntary athletically related activities (e.g., pick-up games)" for certain staff members, which a student-organized scrimmage is clearly not:

11.7.1.1.1.1 Noncoaching Activities. Institutional staff members involved in noncoaching activities (e.g., administrative assistants, academic counselors) do not count in the institution’s coaching limitations, provided such individuals are not identified as coaches, do not engage in any on- or off-field coaching activities (e.g., attending meetings involving coaching activities, analyzing video involving the institution’s or an opponent’s team), and are not involved in any off-campus recruitment of prospective student-athletes or scouting of opponents. A noncoaching staff member with sport-specific responsibilities may not participate with or observe student-athletes in the staff member’s sport who are engaged in nonorganized voluntary athletically related activities (e.g., pick-up games). (Adopted: 1/16/93, Revised: 1/10/95, 12/13/05, 4/27/06 effective 8/1/06)

…but I'm skeptical he read that rule right. Even if quality control staff qualify as noncoaching, they do have sport specific responsibilities and can't observe "nonorganized voluntary athletically related activities," which I'm very sure would include the voluntary seven-on-sevens and whatnot.

Allegations

The article's hugely long and goes into detail about Barwis' workout regimes and Michigan's seven-on-seven "requirements" but the only section that specifically alleges NCAA violations is this one:

"It was mandatory," one player said. "They'd tell you it wasn't, but it really was. If you didn't show up, there was punishment. I just felt for the guys that did miss a workout and had to go through the personal hell they would go through."

In addition, the players cited these practices within the program:

Players spent at least nine hours on football activities on Sundays after games last fall. NCAA rules mandate a daily 4 -hour limit. The Wolverines also exceeded the weekly limit of 20 hours, the athletes said.

Players said members of Rodriguez's quality-control staff often watched seven-on-seven off-season scrimmages. The non-contact drills, in which an offense runs plays against a defense, are supposed to be voluntary and player-run. They are held at U-M's football facilities. NCAA rules allow only training staff _ not quality-control staffers _ to attend as a safety precaution. Quality-control staffers provide administrative and other support for the coaches but are not allowed to interact directly with players during games, practices or workouts.

If verified, the quote about punishment would violate blah blah blah subsection D above. What qualifies as a "punishment" in a regularly scheduled S&C workout is unknown. Working out harder?

And if "quality control" staff were observing seven-on-seven, a claim disputed Michigan compliance department spot checks, that would be a violation as well. And the "nine hours" on Sunday would be a violation if the voluntary workouts gray area was breached.

There is some expansion on blah subsection D:

Under Carr, off-season seven-on-seven drills were run by players, without coaches or staff members present, players said. The only staffer there would be a trainer, in case anybody got injured, as allowed under NCAA rules.

Several players said Rodriguez's coaches were more likely to insist they participate in seven-on-seven scrimmages, which have become more frequent. They also said that members of the program's quality-control staff frequently watched seven-on-sevens.

"They usually just watched and would write down who wasn't there," one player on the 2008 team said.

Another said graduate assistants would track them down.

"The phone would ring: 'Where you at? ... You gotta come.' 'I'm in class.' "

Ah, smell the objectivity: "insist" is another man's way of saying "suggest you participate lest you fall behind the rest of the team and find yourself on the bench." But taking attendance is verboten. Calling players on the team probably not.

The rest of it is filler, like quotes from some freshmen about the offseason workout program…

"Hooooo!" Stokes said. "A typical week is working from 8 a.m. in the morning to 6 or 7 at night, Monday through Saturday."

And that was starting in June?

"Yes, sir," Stokes said. "We do the weight room at least three times a week, and seven-on-sevens and one-on-ones. Speed and agility on the other days. Every day we have something new to get ready for the season. The coaches have done a great job of stressing the importance of getting us ready for the big season that we're about to have."

…that would be totally evil if Rodriguez was an idiot who hadn't dealt with NCAA compliance for 20 years and hadn't made sure the strenuous workouts fit the definitions of "voluntary." This is unlikely. The same goes for the assertions that Rodriguez had his players exceed daily limits on required activities and 20-hour-per-week maximums on practice time: all of those sections rely on vague quotes about what the team does from players who aren't complaining and include things like workouts that, again, probably qualify as voluntary. Here's the big reveal on exceeding maximum hours per week:

With three hours on Saturday and a full day on Sunday, players tallied about 12 hours on those two days. They were off Monday. Players said they would spend an additional three to four hours with the team on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday afternoons, bringing the weekly total to 21- 24 hours.

If any section of any of those days fit the definition of voluntary, that's not a violation.

Precedents

As you might expect, they're pretty lax. The NCAA just got done slightly dinging Southeast Missouri State for something similar. From the NCAA report on the matter:

a. During the summer of 2006, members of the men's basketball coaching staff, including the former head coach, were present during, and in some instances, briefly observed men's basketball student-athletes' participation in the team's strength and conditioning program. Additionally, student-athletes were sometimes required to report to a coach the reason they did not attend a conditioning session.
b. During the summer of 2007, members of the men's basketball coaching staff, including the former head coach, regularly, but not to the extent of the prior summer, were present during, and in some instances briefly observed, men's basketball student-athletes' participation in the team's strength and conditioning program.
c. During the fall of 2006 (August through October) and spring of 2007 (March through May), members of the men's basketball coaching staff briefly observed men's basketball student-athletes' participation in a few on-campus out-of-season pick-up games, including one occasion in the spring of 2007 (around April 24), when some coaches observed a prospective student-athlete, completing an official paid visit, participate in an on-campus pick-up game with some of the men's basketball student-athletes.

This was part of a laundry list of other violations, including an impermissible car trip and two separate instances where boosters or coaches paid for school fees or tuition. But what really got SEMO in hot water was the head coach's response to the investigation; that and the collective malfeasance-lookin' thing got SEMO the dreaded three words that indicate serious ire on the part of the NCAA:

Other violations include unethical conduct by the former head coach for knowing about the program's involvement in NCAA violations and providing false and misleading information to the institution and enforcement staff when questioned about his involvement in and knowledge of possible NCAA violations; unethical conduct by the former assistant coach for failing to act in accordance with the generally recognized high standards of honesty and sportsmanship normally associated with the conduct and administration of intercollegiate athletics for his knowing involvement in NCAA violations; and the institution's failure to monitor the men's and women's basketball programs.

All this added up to three years of probation and one scholarship taken away for one year, AKA nothing whatsoever.

So, Yeah… What Might Happen?

You're not dealing with amateurs here:

Van Horn said, "Compliance and administrative staff conduct in-person spot checks of practice during the academic year and summer. We have not had any reason to self-report any violations in this area with any of our sports."

At the very least a detailed list of clean spot checks will assuage the NCAA if they choose to investigate. "Failure to monitor" can't be alleged when there is monitoring. This is a major reason big schools report a lot of minor violations and escape the NCAA hammer: they pay attention and back it up with documents. Meanwhile, the accusations leveled are anonymous, unverified, and vague. It takes a huge leap to go from this article to even the tiny wrist-slap SEMO received.

The Free Press says the NCAA's reaction is "impossible to predict," but I'll predict: it'll be slightly more strenuous than their reaction to the NCAA's reaction the Ann Arbor News academics story. Since their reaction to that story was to ignore it, that only implies a cursory look through the books.

  • Login or register to post comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
August 30th, 2009 at 1:06 PM | Excellent piece. (Score:1)
jg2112
jg2112's picture
Joined: 11/25/2008
MGoPoints: 5837

And with this, hopefully the people who pay more than the ESPN-cursory level look at Michigan football (namely, the people on this blog) can now refocus on the task at hand: Saturday against Western Michigan.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 3:10 PM | RichRod will earn his paycheck this week... (Score:1)
cps2010
Joined: 08/08/2009
MGoPoints: 3747

He has a major psychological task ahead (which was Lloyd's greatest strength, IMO) of keeping the team focused in the face of great outside pressures/distractions.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 3:31 PM | Yep. App State and Oregon (Score:1)
marc_from_novi
marc_from_novi's picture
Joined: 02/02/2009
MGoPoints: 1390

Yep. App State and Oregon are two stellar examples.

Willie Heston - 72 touchdowns; 4 National titles; 43-0-1 record; All-American; Law Degree

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 3:35 PM | And what happened after those games? (Score:1)
cps2010
Joined: 08/08/2009
MGoPoints: 3747

Hmm, Mr. Short-Term-Negative-Memory?

How about the entire '97 season in response to "the M stands for 'mediocrity'"?

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 4:23 PM | Riiight, because 1997 is (Score:1)
tecknogyk
tecknogyk's picture
Joined: 10/13/2008
MGoPoints: 17

Riiight, because 1997 is soooo relevant to 2007. Get real.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 6:11 PM | Isn't '97 relevant to Lloyd's ability to focus the team... (Score:1)
cps2010
Joined: 08/08/2009
MGoPoints: 3747

...in response to negative perception?

Real enough for you?

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 9:42 PM | what? (Score:1)
matty blue
matty blue's picture
Joined: 08/01/2008
MGoPoints: 377

pray tell - what were the distractions / negative influences during appalachian state week?

oh that's right. there weren't any. that's okay, though. don't let that slow you down.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:07 PM | Thanks, Brian (Score:1)
Enjoy Life
Enjoy Life's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2477

As usual, more info than all the other stuff put together.

Damn, you might be a journalist!!

Life should not be a journey to the grave to arrive safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What A Ride!" HST

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:09 PM | When you say "This is (Score:1)
Big Boutros
Big Boutros's picture
Joined: 07/08/2008
MGoPoints: 8004

When you say "This is unlikely" re: Stokes and Hawthorne's comments, are you saying that they were simply categorizing their workout schedule incorrectly?

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:09 PM | It is unlikely that what they (Score:1)
Brian
Brian's picture
Joined: 05/26/2008
MGoPoints: 63126

It is unlikely that what they describe is a violation because it would require Rodriguez to be an idiot.

MGoBlog | email 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:26 PM | He is clearly anything but... (Score:1)
Sven_Da_M
Sven_Da_M's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2023

And I'm thinking two things:

1) This sets the team up for an "us against the world" start to the season. Going through the tunnel and dropping 50 or so on WMU would do a lot.

2) I think there should be a rush order on another T-shirt design for the competition. Instead of Che Guevara, I'm thinking RichRod with a sombrero ala Treasure of Sierra Madre with the tagline:

"Violations? We don't have no stinkin' violations!"

video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqomZQMZQCQ

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:51 PM | Badges (Score:1)
pdxblue
pdxblue's picture
Joined: 11/02/2008
MGoPoints: 242

Any reference to Treasure of the Sierra Madre is worth like a million points! Only thing better would be to tie it to BSG!

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 2:08 PM | But if the team drops 50 on (Score:1)
Bryan
Bryan's picture
Joined: 07/10/2009
MGoPoints: 8090

But if the team drops 50 on WMU then you can expect to hear, "Well, the only way UM improved so much was with all of the 'extra' practice they were forced to do under RichRod the Terrible."

As Brian said above, RR would have to be an idiot along with all of the other coaches, staff and Athletic Dept. officials to let something like this go on. I would expect something like to this to happen under Lane Kiffin, but not a coach who has headed two major programs for the better part of the last decade.

Let's just win some games and forget about this off season.

I have a Fandom Endurance III merit badge

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:30 PM | I think that you've summed up (Score:1)
biakabutuka exp...
biakabutuka explosion 3000's picture
Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 2165

I think that you've summed up the entire post with that one quote:

"It is unlikely that what they describe is a violation because it would require Rodriguez to be an idiot."

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 2:09 PM | RE: Idiots (Score:1)
DCBlue
DCBlue's picture
Joined: 07/11/2008
MGoPoints: 450

I will preface by saying I do not believe any NCAA violation will be found. However, as we saw in the Patriots taping scandal/violations, it does not take an "idiot" to condone practices that clearly violate NFL or NCAA policy. Bill Belicheck is clearly not an idiot. Also, on the lighter side, I once made a closing argument in a breaking and entering prosecution where the defendant accidently locked himself in a bank safe as follows: "We don't catch the smart ones."

My bet is that RR and staff clearly pushed the limits of the rules, relying on the affirmative defense that this was all "voluntary." I'm sure the Compliance staff at Michigan will basically have their heads up the football programs ass after this. That is the most likely outcome, not any NCAA violation substantiations.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:12 PM | Not the reference point (Score:1)
Enjoy Life
Enjoy Life's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2477

Brian stated:

"that would be totally evil if Rodriguez was an idiot who hadn't dealt with NCAA compliance for 20 years and hadn't made sure the strenuous workouts fit the definitions of "voluntary." This is unlikely.

He is saying it is unlikely that RR did not make sure that the "strenuous workouts fit the definitions of "voluntary.""

Life should not be a journey to the grave to arrive safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What A Ride!" HST

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:16 PM | Understood. Thanks to both of (Score:1)
Big Boutros
Big Boutros's picture
Joined: 07/08/2008
MGoPoints: 8004

Understood. Thanks to both of you for the clarification

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:08 PM | Unfortunately for the (Score:1)
chitownblue2
chitownblue2's picture
Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 7062

Unfortunately for the MGoRabble, Brian didn't tell them what to think. Whatever will they all do?

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:52 PM | Question (Score:1)
MH20
MH20's picture
Joined: 10/30/2008
MGoPoints: 7575

Why the hostility?

"The difference between a man and a boy is, a boy wants to grow up to be a fireman, but a man wants to grow up to be a giant monster fireman."

- Jack Handey

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 2:17 PM | "Moe is their leader" (Score:1)
santosbfree
santosbfree's picture
Joined: 08/19/2009
MGoPoints: 20

There has to be someone to make all the badness go away.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 3:14 PM | I like this comment because (Score:1)
El Jeffe
El Jeffe's picture
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 6714

I like this comment because it can be read one of two ways:

1. Chitown is adopting his Leninist persona and chiding Brian, as a member of the Vanguard of the Proletariat, for not providing clear direction;

or

2. Chitown is being a condescending prat.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:08 PM | Brian's analysis (Score:1)
DCBlue
DCBlue's picture
Joined: 07/11/2008
MGoPoints: 450

as usual, Brian knocks it out of the park. As I briefly mentioned on my board message about the latest ESPN analysis, though, I don't think the biggest worry for RR is the NCAA. It's the big alumni donors. I'd like to think the folks on MGoBlog are the power base of Michigan fans. But we're not. If enough people paying for the suites, etc. get fed up and voice it to Bill Martin directly and from the checkbooks, Rich Rod is in trouble. This the first time a "major" NCAA violation has been alleged in the national print media vs. Michigan. Donors used to being able to say we're better than everyone else because our program is so "clean" won't like it. Just my two cents. And if UM does well this year, the donors will be happy. We'll see a week from yesterday.

Oh, and Rittenberg does a good job staying objective on all this here:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/ncfnation/0-10-296/Michigan-allegations-sugge...

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:20 PM | Survey Says! (Score:1)
Enjoy Life
Enjoy Life's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2477

When you take a survey (or ask football players questions), there is bound to be some variation in the response. If not, the survey is rigged.

The fact that around 5% or less (it looks like) of the current players have some problems with the program is virtually a statistical certainty.

It does not mean:

1) Team chemistry is destroyed forever!

2) RR is in deep trouble!

3) The laws of gravity no longer apply.

Life should not be a journey to the grave to arrive safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What A Ride!" HST

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:23 PM | I agree (Score:1)
DCBlue
DCBlue's picture
Joined: 07/11/2008
MGoPoints: 450

Just wondering if your reply to my post was directed at something specific?

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:35 PM | Oh, Yeah (Score:1)
Enjoy Life
Enjoy Life's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2477

Sorry, must have lost my train of thought.

I hope the alum donors also realize this and that they got to be rich and famous because they have the ability to think. Therefore, they will dismiss this as just another sensational headline rather than get all in a lather about it.

Also, most of those donor alums are in business and realize that what M is "accused" of doing is no different than what they are doing every day (and, what helped them become rich and famous).

I think if RR wins, he stays. If not, he is gone. This will not matter a twit. Because, I think, it is much ado about nothing.

Life should not be a journey to the grave to arrive safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What A Ride!" HST

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:23 PM | Right (Score:1)
The Nicker
Joined: 08/30/2008
MGoPoints: 183

I think DC Blue hits the nail on the head here. I'm not exactly a stuck-in-the-mud traditionalist in the mold of our older brethren, but even I'm starting to become unsettled at the frequent issues that the program has had to deal with in the past year and a half. The bluehairs will most definitely issue warning shots after this one, if nothing else, and Martin's still got 30% of the boxes to fill up. Granted, he's also right that winning will assuage some of the concern, but not all of it.

The "Rosenberg hates us" meme does not satisfy me. Journalists have it out for all sorts of coaches and programs, keep your nose clean.

Regardless of the fact that almost every top program in the country is probably doing this, that our players would self-report this in the worst possible light is enough to tell me that there are still severe problems in the locker room. This is a problem. I don't care if Rodriguez introduced a whole new culture and it's only Carr guys that can't deal with it (although at this point simple reasoning says that thought is shot to hell), the fact that there are still so many disgruntled players on this squad is very unsettling to me.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:28 PM | Stop and think a minute (Score:1)
Route66
Route66's picture
Joined: 10/15/2008
MGoPoints: 1343

There is nothing that says there are SO MANY disgruntled players. I am guesssing that it was Stokes and Hawthorne. And they said it without knowing it would be used in this context. Also, Joe Schad just said that his sources say that it is folks who could not adjust to the new regime. (slackers...or guys who are okay with 8-4)

 "Run and armpunt that, homeboy." -Brian 10/22/12

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:36 PM | Apparently there is some (Score:1)
Garvie Craw
Garvie Craw's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 203

Apparently there is some speculation on Rivals that Greg Mathews may be a disgruntled current player.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:46 PM | disgruntled players (Score:1)
umchicago
Joined: 02/05/2009
MGoPoints: 3533

the freep article indicated that current and former players were interviewed. i believe the freep intentionally left the issue open as to who the disgruntled players are (were). i'm guessing those disgruntled players left the program.

that said, how difficult would it be to get a player to admit that they dislike long, grueling workouts?

as others have said, this article is about grabbing attention. i think it's largely BS.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 2:46 PM | Rittenberg was good. (Score:1)
wolverine1987
wolverine1987's picture
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 2928

I agree with him that it's troubling that current players spoke out, even if it was only 1 or 2--not because there are a couple malcontents, all programs have them. It's troubling because if the implications for team chemistry and morale for guy that go speak to reporters.

"Everyone gets dumped Gabe. Let me give you some advice: a little coverup on your Adams Apple will make it appear smaller. Which will make you appear less like a transvestite." 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:11 PM | Nice (Score:1)
Dave B
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 19

I liked how at the end of the article, they tried to make a point that all the extra work didn't show on the field last year. Evidently the lack of a consistent QB and defense had nothing to do with 3-9. Let's see how things play out this year.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:13 PM | Agreed (Score:1)
DCBlue
DCBlue's picture
Joined: 07/11/2008
MGoPoints: 450

I've already gotten two emails from my Michigan-hating friends that say "RR practiced three times as much as others and all you can manage was three wins?" Makes me want to blow my head off.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:19 PM | ZOMG WMU DEATH APPROACHETH. (Score:1)
토린
Joined: 04/07/2009
MGoPoints: 13896

ZOMG WMU DEATH APPROACHETH. FUCK NEWSPAPER PRACTICE MOAR!!!1

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:18 PM | Wow Brian, thanks (Score:1)
casmooth
casmooth's picture
Joined: 11/21/2008
MGoPoints: 163

This is a lot of content in a short amount of time. Thanks for doing all of this research so quickly, great informative info.

HAIL.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:24 PM | This is why (Score:1)
Route66
Route66's picture
Joined: 10/15/2008
MGoPoints: 1343

I don't buy the newspaper. We really are spoiled. All the info we need is on a blog like this and is educational with some entertainment. Not because it says what I want to hear, but because it is well thought out and believable. Thanks Brian

I am not too worried.(as if I have any say anyway) W's will make this meme all go away.

 "Run and armpunt that, homeboy." -Brian 10/22/12

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:30 PM | Call me crazy (Score:1)
DCBlue
DCBlue's picture
Joined: 07/11/2008
MGoPoints: 450

But maybe this could theoreticaly HELP recruiting? Most 4 and 5 star recruits think they are headed to the NFL. Having a full time job working out under Barwis can't hurt. If I was RR, I'd have team shirts made up that say: Michigan -- We practice and work out WAY too much. LOL.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 2:50 PM | There's likely a small component of future players that (Score:1)
wolverine1987
wolverine1987's picture
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 2928

that would have appeal to, but the majority, especially those recruits where parents are a major influence on the school decision, IMO will react very negatively to this, particularly after being goaded in a negative way by rival coaches.

"Everyone gets dumped Gabe. Let me give you some advice: a little coverup on your Adams Apple will make it appear smaller. Which will make you appear less like a transvestite." 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:32 PM | quality control personnel (Score:1)
umchicago
Joined: 02/05/2009
MGoPoints: 3533

re: voluntary practices. i come from an accounting/auditing background. it is the job of QC to ensure rules are being properly followed. as far as football goes, to me, it would be a good thing to have "quality control" personnel observing "voluntary" practices and workouts to ensure that ncaa rules are being followed (ie. no coaches). i guess the key is to ensure that these QC people are disassociated from the football program.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:35 PM | Not his first rodeo. (Score:1)
mooseman
Joined: 07/10/2008
MGoPoints: 395

My great source of comfort is not that "everyone does it", but that as Brian states, RR has been doing this for some time on a high level. He knows the rules and (I hope) knows how to run a program that is safe to scrutiny. In a similar fashion, the athletic department should be professional enough to have their ducks in a row. If not, they deserve their lumps for stupidity.

It is bothersome though that there is so much resistance and dissent seemingly from within. The culture obviously changed which reflects poorly on either the Carr regime's work ethic or the demands of RR(maybe a combination of both).

Kentucky basketball does not seem so conflicted and their guy has a real track record. Rodriguez should hire a PR guy.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:42 PM | Aaarrrgghhhh! (Score:1)
Enjoy Life
Enjoy Life's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2477

"It is bothersome though that there is so much resistance and dissent seemingly from within."

There is absolutely NO evidence of this! Few players were actually cited in the articles. And, some that were (e.g. Hawthorne and Stokes) merely said workouts were tough. They never said they thought they were unnecessary or that they were unhappy about it.

Life should not be a journey to the grave to arrive safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What A Ride!" HST

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:41 PM | ESPN adds video... (Score:1)
Sven_Da_M
Sven_Da_M's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2023

... with a quote from RichRod at the end:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4432506

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:42 PM | Rodriguez as idiot dismissal. (Score:1)
wolverine1987
wolverine1987's picture
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 2928

I agree with Brian's conclusion (likely no NCAA sanctions or investigation) but two things:

1- it would not require Rodriguez to be "an idiot" for these allegations to be true: it would require him to be human. Non idiots push the envelope and rules every day and in every industry. Trying to game the system and get advantage is endemic to humanity.

2- I think the NCAA won't investigate but the school likely will. The administration is very sensitive to this kind of allegation and will no simply dismiss it. that guarantees that this issue will stay top of mind. In fact, I think it likely that the school will call a press conference this week in order to discuss this, which will add more fuel to the fire.

In the end, IMO this will end up as a minor skirmish causing much debate but with no real impact--other than increasing negative recruiting against us. Much ado about likely nothing, but nonetheless it's gonna suck for awhile.

"Everyone gets dumped Gabe. Let me give you some advice: a little coverup on your Adams Apple will make it appear smaller. Which will make you appear less like a transvestite." 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:55 PM | Re your #1, I think that if (Score:1)
El Jeffe
El Jeffe's picture
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 6714

Re your #1, I think that if we were talking about the difference between 21 and 20 hours, you'd be right. But as far as I understand what's going on, there were claims that the players were forced, forced I say, to spend 9 hours on Sunday instead of permissible 4 doing football-related stuff or whatnot. RR is not an idiot to overshoot that target by a factor of 225%. More likely, he is flouting the spirit of the rules while staying ever so slightly within the letter of them.

Whether we like this or not is a different matter. I highly doubt RR is dumb enough to trample well-known rules to this extent.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 2:17 PM | You're right, in the sense that it's highly unlikely (Score:1)
wolverine1987
wolverine1987's picture
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 2928

that (for the sake of this argument, let's say all allegations are true) anything can be traced to back to a specific mandatory command. No one could be that dumb. So this is all shades of grey. But as we all know from the workplace, there are ways of your boss letting you know that something extra they want is "voluntary", when in reality everyone at work knows it is not. Nothing could ever be traced back, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Now I'm not arguing the Freep side, as I said earlier, I think it will turn out to be not much. But I do think it's conceivable that this could have happened.

"Everyone gets dumped Gabe. Let me give you some advice: a little coverup on your Adams Apple will make it appear smaller. Which will make you appear less like a transvestite." 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 2:19 PM | Two words: (Score:1)
DCBlue
DCBlue's picture
Joined: 07/11/2008
MGoPoints: 450

Bill Belichick. And that guy is no idiot. His explanation of violating the NFL taping rule was laughable. Let's be honest -- RR is not an idiot, but he will push the limits as much as he can to be successful.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 3:22 PM | Good explanation (Score:1)
NJWolverine
Joined: 08/31/2008
MGoPoints: 176

I agree with you about the "spirit of the rules" vs. the actual rules themselves. Breaking the spirit of the rules is not an infraction.

I think there was a very heavy peer pressure element to last year's Sundays. The coaches can say, "you can leave now if you want, but we have 20 additional things prepared for you and those of you who want to play should go to room X to start." Then the walk ons probably leave since they wouldn't play in any event, but everyone else stays and follows the herd. Therefore, the intentional peer pressure and the playing time expectation break the spirit but not the rule. Everything was still voluntary.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:43 PM | I loved (Score:1)
jamiemac
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 7894

I loved the recipe symbolism in your opening graph.

Made me laugh.

Be it bad post or investigative piece, there is always a recipe for cooked squirrel or curried cabbage thats more worth our time to discuss.

Help My Friend Allison Fight ALS 

MSU/IU at the JCB

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 1:50 PM | Just FYI... (Score:1)
BiSB
BiSB's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 27920

Brian,

Buckeye Battle Cry is calling you out as a "complete coward." If THEY say it, it must be true, right?

http://www.thebuckeyebattlecry.com/?p=2094

[/sarcasm]

They no longer call me Bisbiño

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 2:00 PM | JFC! (Score:1)
Enjoy Life
Enjoy Life's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2477

Wow, are we lucky to have MGoBlog.

There were so many factual errors and absolute false statements in that one post on the Buckeye Battle Cry that I could not believe it. What garbage!

Life should not be a journey to the grave to arrive safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What A Ride!" HST

  • Login or register to post comments
August 30th, 2009 at 2:04 PM | Buckeye Battle Cry = (Score:1)
BiSB
BiSB's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 27920

They no longer call me Bisbiño

  • Login or register to post comments
  • 1
  • 2
  • next ›
  • last »
Powered by Pressflow, an open source content management system
Theme provided by Roopletheme; sidebars adapted from Chris Murphy.