but I have confidence that he will recover quickly and see the field come Fall...and yeah, hopefully we see a lot more Norfleet!!!!
Jake Butt Tears ACL
Per UM's Twitter:
Jake Butt Out Indefinitely with Torn ACL: http://t.co/p2yRL0eLOZ
— Michigan Football (@umichfootball) February 13, 2014
Butt was Michigan's best option to be a catchy-blocky tight end so this is Not Good.
I wouldn't automatically count him as a redshirt; recovery from ACL tears these days is really fast, though not guaranteed to be. FWIW Jake Ryan tore his on March 20 last year and made it back in late October. If Butt can recover at Ryan speed he'll be back for the conference games.
Either way the intervening months were going to be especially important for Butt to get comfortable in the offense and gain the requisite weight to get beyond the largely Just a Receiver™ role he played last year. Likelihood of Ian Bunting's shirt being burned just shot through the stratosphere, since extant options are A.J. Williams and Khalil Hill.
Silver lining: MORfleet? Fortunately Nussmeier seems to be much less reliant on TEs, going 3- and 4-wide quite often at Washington, so this can be mitigated somewhat by more slot receiver sets.
I believe so.
mgodoctors: does the nature of the tear dictate the recovery time? if so, what if anything do we know about this tear?
Depends on if other structures are damaged. Meniscus tears are frequent with ACLs, as are cartilage injuries. Jake was a special case and I wouldn't count his recovery as the norm. Can he be back in 7 months? Yeah but to be 100% it takes a few more months and if he is sore or still weak then it is prudent to give him more time. Not Derrick Rose time but time nonetheless.
so it seems like we need further informatino re: whether there were other tears?
This is a giant dancing Turd Sandwich.
What about Shallman? I know they told him he'd be a RB, but hasn't there been an assumption all along that he'd eventually move to a TE-like role?
Yes there has, he will now possibly H-back/te know and we still have Hill who redshirted we also have Williams and another 5th year sr who's name I can't think of.
Jordan Paskorz is who you're thinking of probably. He hasn't done much though, especially in a receiving-type TE role.
I left Paskorz out on purpose since I didn't think he was much of an option.
Paskorz is no longer playing.
I think you're thinking of Paskorz. I've heard his name a lot, but I don't remember ever seeing him play. Plus, there's always Funchess, who I know was better off playing WR than TE, but is at least TE sized.
Losing Butt definitely hurts, as he was already looking the part of the pass-catching/blocking dual-threat TE, but there are at least bodies to take his place. Which hasn't always been the case with recent injuries.
At this point I'd almost rather he redshirt. Use Hill, Houma and Shallman as H-backs to mitigate his loss for the season along with MOARFleet in the slot.
Let him recover, gain weight and watch film. Use bowl practices as a way to test the ACL live and then bring him back in '15 as the blocky-catchy destroyer of worlds. I think it's a better way forward than to bring him back at only half strength for half a season.
I agree. Don't rush him back and use what you got, you dont need them to be Jake Butt you need them to be good blockers and decent in the pass game.
I'm about sick of this. It always seems to happen at a key position too (well, on our team we can't afford to lose the waterboy let alone a rising star like JB)
I don't know that it is a "key position." There are plenty of ways to run an offense with limited contributions from the TE position, and there are plenty of bodies who can take Butt's place. As theguy49503 points out earlier in the thread, you don't need them to be world beaters. Just decent.
That's the third acl torn in practice in the last yr . Maybe something there needs to change or they need to do more acl /mcl preventative training
Human bodies were not meant to be as large and fast as they now are while doing the things football demands. Knee injuries are here to stay.
Agree re: human bodies, but training definitely has to do with it too. How many torn ACLs have we seen in the offseason since the S&C coach changed? I'd be interested to see if M's numbers are in line with those of other D1 school.
Also, this article suggests that S&C can have a lot to do with knee injuries and coming back from them:
I have simply seen no evidence to suggest that "more Norfleet" will in any way mitigate "less Butt."
Take what time is needed. As I read elsewhere, I think it may alter the type of sets Nuss runs. The downside is that some of the recruits are looking to see what type of Michigan Nuss runs. If they get away from using the tight ends, it may have an impact on their decisions. I'm hoping Bunting does come through as he will be 1) another freshman playing and 2) maybe the best at showing what Nuss intends to do going forward.
I assume Funchess will also play more tight end which has been Hoke's intention anyway.
is that most of these injuries happen to key players or guys who are poised to have a big year. Drake Johnson, Jake Ryan, Onset Pipkins, now Jake Butt. Come on!!!
"Onset Pipkins" is a disease I hope this team suffers through all season!
I would not like to be set on (or sat on) by Pipkins.
Angry Michigan Jake ACL-Hating God strikes again.
Jake Butt had a great freshman year and was poised to have a huge sophomore campaign. This is a big loss.
I wish Jake a speedy and healthy recovery, and look forward to his return. He's going to be a great player for Michigan.
That info usually isn't made public, a lot of it is seen better at the time of operation anyway. The big thing to understand is that acl recovery cannot really be that well predicted. Two people can undergo the exact same procedure and one be ready to go months before the other.
I was looking forward to seeing his development. Hoping for a quick and complete recovery.
...lift the curse of Bo, kthxbai.
Here's our football program since his death:
beat heisman trophy winning tim tebow and florida, won sugar bowl, have had highly ranked recruiting classes last 3 years....
but yeah totally cursed
won 0 big ten titles
something like a 61-48 win loss record but you be happy about what you want i guess.
With Bo around (1990 - 1st 11 games of 2006):
157-47-3 (76.6%), 105-28-2 B1G (78.5%), 8 B1G titles (in 16 seasons), 7 BCS-level bowl games, 9 bowl wins
After Bo's death (last 2 games of 2006 season - present):
50-41 (54.9%), 27-30 B1G (47.4%), 0 B1G titles (in 7 seasons), 1 BCS bowl, 2 bowl wins
Subtracting out Rodriguez for the haters:
35-19 (64.8%), 21-12 B1G (63.6%), 0 B1G titles (in 4 seasons), 1 BCS bowl, 2 bowl wins
Now, I don't believe in curses and was joking in my post above, but you must admit the "before/after" data is striking.
This GIF is quite appropriate as many ACL tears occur with improper landing techniques while one jumps up, etc. This is particularly seen in women's basketball and volleyball.
Plus 1 to you sir
Was worth it.
Now you guys see why Rich was all about those extra 20 minutes of stretching.
Seriosly tho mandatory Yoga classes for all football players starting yesterday.
Michigan's average with ACL injuries happening to critical players during Hoke's tenure....
.....yep, we're batting about 1.000....fuck.
There's more than that. Wormley, Pipkins, burzynski, Johnson...
Why, AMTEHG, why???
Wishing Jake a swift and full recovery.
Khalid Hill. Khalil is the younger brother who plays corner that we didn't recruit.
All those Purdue and Percy the ACLephant jokes are really starting to come back to bite us in the ACL.
Why can't Michigan have nice things? I really feel like the football program has been cursed the last couple of seasons.
We can't have nice things because we break them with ACL injuries.
But seriously, this news does suck. All ACL injuries are different, but just using pure conjecture here, let's say Butt takes another month longer than Ryan to recover. This would basically set up a similar timeframe like Ryan from last year, where Butt could in theory start playing the first game after the Bye Week on Oct. 18th, which would be the Oct. 25th game @ Michigan State. And that's a moderate projection. Wildily optimistic is Ryan schedule, which brings him back before conference play. Anything more pessimistic and you're probably looking at just the final two games of the season. And it seems to me Ryan was not at 100% for the first few games anyway.
As bad as this news is though, I don't think it's nearly as terrible as the Jake Ryan injury. Ryan was a veteran player and a pivotal part of our defense. Butt is a young guy with huge upside potential, but is only a utility player. This is not an All-Conference center or our starting QB that went down here. Plus, as others have said, it's possible the new offensive scheme might involve more slot receivers and fewer tight end plays anyway.
For those reasons, I'm inclined to go with red shirt unless there are extenuating circumstances. If the drop-off in TE production is truly awlful, if the TE usage is just as high as it was last year, if we are in the midst of a serious run at the Big Ten Championship and his depth could add significantly to to that run, then under some of those scenarios I could see burning his eligibility.
But if playing Butt next year means just a marginal additional risk of going 9-3 instead of 8-4, then I'd be inclined to have him to take the injury red shirt, lift weights like a madman, fully digest the playbook, and become a monster in 2015.
So instead I will just leave everyone with this:
As someone also status-post ACL reconstruction (with medial meniscus tear), I feel for all the Jakes and other Wolverine ACLs. The rehab takes time, it is learning to trust your knee again after the repair that is the real challenge. Get well soon!
Show me some Freddy Canteen and Norfleet then!!!! Excited for FC especially.