Theres probably a million, but weren't Whiterspoon and Witty also sent conditional scholarship offers, and didn't they send back signed LOIs to the University?
I don't think its the guarantee you're insinuating it is.
As of yesterday, Michigan coaches were reported to be trying to get Dorsey in. Letter campaigns and what-not were in the process of being launched. You can keep up the campaigns if you want but know that they won't have an effect:
"He signed a letter of intent but basically what happened, I guess he didn't qualify to their standards," Jackson said. "Admissions sent him a letter that they weren't going to admit him to the school and said to disregard the other letter (of intent) and was free again to start looking at other options." …
Now, Dorsey will reopen his recruiting.
"I would like to see him stay closer to home," Jackson said. "But it's wherever he feels comfortable."
This is depressing on multiple levels. GBW's Gene Hankerson says Arkansas, WVU, Tennessee, USC, Louisville, LSU, and Miami will look at Dorsey now.
Theres probably a million, but weren't Whiterspoon and Witty also sent conditional scholarship offers, and didn't they send back signed LOIs to the University?
I don't think its the guarantee you're insinuating it is.
but my point was that his arrests being publically aired did more to bismirch his reputation than not getting approved into Michigan
My point is that was not handled well. Given the rest of the screw-ups in last few years, I really can't give anyone at U of M the benefit of the doubt. Had this happened 10 years ago, I would probably assume the kid was given a shot, blew it and is just upset. I can't do that anymore. This is just one more in a series of blunders on and off the field.
Fine, the entire University doesn't look bad. I get that. But the football program does look like shit - especially to recruits who think that Demar got screwed b/c that is the only story out there.
This is the risk the football program is willing to take. It may look stupid (though really, I don't see how thats the case here) when it fails but it will look great when the next marginal student becomes a success on and off the field.
I'm not seeing a vast tragedy here. The coverage has been even-handed/just-the-facts, from everything I've seen in print. Its Michigan fans griping that is the biggest embarrasment, IMO.
Academic standards are part of why Michigan is attractive to other recruits. Demar Dorsey seems okay with the decision. I don't see "Michigan has tougher academic standards, you might not make it there kiddo" as a major recruiting concern, particularly given the on-field performance and perception of the offense in terms of NFL-transition.
What makes you think the football program had anything to do with not accepting DD? It was admissions that made a decision that impacts the football program, and if you can't see the negative impact this is going to have on recruits you are simply delusional.
You are speaking like it is a simple case of a kid not meeting the academic standards not getting in. I would say you are simplifying things dramatically there.
From what everyone DOES know DD met all the NCAA requirements to play football. This is what everyone knows at this point. Between his GPA and test scores he is able to go to university and play football. UM for some reason has said, "sorry buddy, that simply isn't good enough."
I would be curious to know how you think this isn't going to negatively impact the UM football program? You say that the academic standards are what makes UM attractive to some recruits and you're right. The problem is there are a vast number of recruits (many top tier blue chip recruits) who are of the same variety of DD. How many of them do you think are going to risk signing an LOI to UM from this point forward?
Yes, admissions has set a bar higher than other schools. This has been the case with UofM for a long time, as it is the case with Stanford and other schools. Being uncomfortable with the higher standard at UofM is a seperate issue that I'm not trying to argue here. Good or bad, thats how it was and, apparantly, how it still is. The higher standard, indisputably, exists.
The "how can we possibly compete like this" argument is flawed because we've proven we CAN win like this. So, why would things be any different now? UofM has for a long time eschewed taking these types of recruits or even pursuing them. . It wasn't viewed as a major detriment to UofM recruiting. If it does anything, it maintains the academic prestige of the school.
The only change thats evident to me is that under RR, UofM football has seemingly become more aggressive in taking marginal students. (no evidence for this just statement, just a general perception). I'm OK with this if its true for all the "he deserves a chance rationale others have made. But, this decisionthe football program is making to accept risk. Sometimes marginal kids won't make it and will end up at other schools.
In summary, UofM always had higher standards - nothings changed. Marginal recruits always had a chance of not qualifying - nothings changed. The change here is who the football program/athletic department extend offers to.
How is this a great tragedy and Witty, Witherspoon and others are not? Dorsey isn't the first to sign a LOI and not get the grades he needs to get into Michigan. Yet, he was a marginal student and high profile recruit who committed to UofM despite the fact that they wouldn't take kids that other schools would.
I agree 100% with your comments, Mat. Additionally, I would add that any LOI has certain conditions to make it legally binding. I work with them all the time, and they are what they say--Letters of Intent or statements of intent to work together. I have never seen one that is unconditional and unbreakable in the event certain criteria are not met. We don't know the details of the letter between DD and UofM. However, I am going to go on a limb that Michigan has probably looked pretty carefully at it and made the appropriate and legal decision. They would potentially get in a lot of trouble if they violate that LOI without just cause. Perhaps I am just really naive here, but I am sure they have looked at everything and are justified in their decision.
I would have loved to see DD here. He's a tremendous talent, and UofM could be good for him to build character and give him a fresh start. However, UofM has a reputation for academics (often a reason stated by recruits for choosing UofM), and I don't think this will reflect regatively on the school for future recruiting.
Lastly, anyone else notice that Demar doesn't really seem to be putting up a fight or crying 'foul' here? I am sure he is disappointed, but it appears to me that he isn't terribly surprised by this decision. It appears to me that he was looking for a favor here, but there wasn't one available, and he is moving on. It sounds to me that he realizes he wan't able to fully live up to his end of the deal...but I could very easily be mistaken here.
I wish DD all the best wherever he ends up. I am just not ready to lynch the university, coaching staff, and/or David Brandon for something we know little about.
A GD Humbling... these past 3 years...
But jg2112 is right. This is the team, and it can be a good one and move forward. I hope to root for this kid for a long time, but I'll be watching these others in AA on Saturdays
Humbling: in 2007 I knew our offensive stars and the better defensive players. Didn't know much more. But the past 3 years have made me a stronger fan, not weaker. Let the bandwagons unload. Those who remain are committed, and that's how you rebuild. I can speak through the 2-deep on both sides of the ball, and my frustation led me to this site ~ a year ago (not that my knowledge does the team any good, but my dollars do).
Melodrama quotient high, but FUCK IT - GO BLUE AND MOVE THIS THING FORWARD
Kind of makes me wonder what really went down. Unfortunately, we will probably never know.
While like most of you I'm still all in for RichRod, there comes a point when you start shaking your head in amazement. Being in the public eye at WVU is simply not the same as being the coach at Michigan. Until this latest episode, I figured RR safe at seven wins...wonder if that number just went up.
I'd love to hear Brandon's comments on the subject.
...but I also agree with part of what jg said. As much as this sucks, there are still plenty of players who will do fine for UM. I also think that Brandon will get things straightened out so that there isn't a repeat performance of this again.
Whether it is because there are still people in admissions who are trying to sabotage RR or it was just an embarassing and unacceptable (sorry, no caps) mistake, I can't help but feel that a few more wins this year and strong leadership from Brandon will smooth this over.
I really do hope that Dorsey becomes successful as a student and as a player; I just hope he never plays a role in any team beating Michigan.
Good luck, Demar; you deserved better.
I'm not buying it. You are aware that the director of admission helped hire RR? What's the credible scenario on why admissions would now be trying to torpedo the guy?
Maybe RR took the last beer at an administrative retreat. I know I'd be pissed.
Warning: melodramatic statement ahead -- I feel like Michigan's next coach is probably going to have to be either Desmond Tutu or the Dalai Lama. They might be the only people pure enough to satisfy various people w/in U of M.
Even though there are no actual facts other than, 1) the football staff was given the green light to offer the kid, 2) Michigan knows what its standards are, 3) Dorsey at least achieved the NCAA minimum...
Given the general recognition that not everyone at UM is all in for Coach Rodriguez, it is really hard not to wonder if this was simply a "communication accident".
If this was on purpose, I hope Dave Brandon has a way to find out who initiated it.
Yes, I support the idea of actually knowing, or at the very least, finding out the best that is possible under the circumstances, what the heck happened here.
It's easy to blame Admissions, because that's where we presume, or have been told, the breakdown is, but I'd really like some actual fact-like substance before we start lining up at Ann Arbor Torch and Pitchfork.
I'm all for mass internet anger, just directed at the right party. RIght now blame is being shoveled everywhere with no facts being presented. It's frustrating that this happened, but reaction is completely disproportionate to actual knowledge and events.
I am very unhappy with the school's decision. Michigan has an outstanding academic support process for athletes. I have to believe that if Demar is as focused as he appeared to be in the video clip that was shared, he was going to be fine as a student.
I can't believe that our University is this jacked up in its end-to-end admissions processes. I would expect processes to be very fluid and effective for the scholarship recipients. This is cheap, highly visible internal trench warfare that hurts the school's reputation.
Demar: I wish you success wherever you go to school. Keep on dreaming.
Someone needs to make a list of these.
Now I wait with folded arms for the Michigan news media to proclaim the whole Demar Dorsey debacle as a predictable, I-told-you-so byproduct of Rich Rodriguez character flaws.
I need a CRex story to make me forget this, if only for a moment.
MICH #1 LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT
I am so pissed... sucks for Dorsey, sucks for our team, sucks for everyone. The school needs to get their shit together and stop looking like fools. I really hope this does not cause long term recruiting problems for us in Florida. Man, this sucks, arguably the top recruit in the B10 last year and we let him slip through our fingers.
We need a brak to go our way... sorry just very pissed and sad
One quick additional question:
How much can other schools use this instance to negative recruit? I bet any competing school will tell a recruit that is not 100% certain that they will qualify (and I bet there are a ton) that signing with Michigan is a mistake because the Dorsey situation might happen. This is horrible, the whole Michigan administration needs to get its act together and help each other towards a common goal. How can we compete unless everyonen is on the same boat?
Demar you will probably not read this but I wish you the best and hope you keep your life on the good track. I will look forward to watching you succeed on Saturday then Sunday.
I am just waiting for the reasoned, well-thought response from Valenti on today's show.
It's too bad it didn't turn out better for us and DD, but I am still really looking forward to the upcoming season. At least 8 wins, baby!
[banging head on desk]
Demar's future team meets Michigan in a bowl game his junior year, he goes "Woodson" on UM and gets a couple of picks, one being returned for a TD, and then goes pro early.
"Lifeskills" sounds like some kind of special education setup, so if this guy wasn't smart enough for high school he shouldn't be in ANY major college imho. Throw in the thieving and I say good riddance.
I have never seen you post before, but my first impression is....you are a douche.
I know first impressions are misleading sometimes so I may give you another chance in the future but if you find my response to be too quick and based on too little knowledge I ask you this:
How much did you know about DD before making this uneducated and plain nasty post? Probably even less than I know about you after reading one post.
So you're saying he's not an admitted burgler and smart as a whip? Maybe I was misinformed.
I can't even bear to read today's edition of Wednesday Recruitin'. This DD situation may be the end of my interest in recruiting. I was never so much a "recruitnik" until I started reading MGoBlog. But I found myself more and more interested, enough so that by the time signing day rolled around in 2009, I was hooked and didn't get a damn thing done at work that day. Ditto for 2010. But after this news today, I am seriously asking myself why on earth I should devote so much time and energy to reading all about any number of highly-touted potential Michigan men, only to have the rug pulled out like this. I will certainly continue reading this great blog.... but I'm done caring about recruiting details, for now anyway.
You'll be back
Impact of this may hurt recruiting in the short run. But memories are short these days, and a winning program at Michigan is still one of the best places to play in the country
So, after a week of sleeping on the couch (fighting with the fiancee) and sitting through a five hour deposition that never should have lasted past two hours, I come out to this news. I have not read through the thread, so if this has already been stated, I apologize, but, as a two-time alumni (undergrad / law) and second generation UM grad (old man graduated in late 60's), and a devoted fan to the progam since birth, I have never been so thoroughly disgusted with any facet of the University as I am with admissions right now. I was in law school through the meat and bones of the admission lawsuits, and to think the same University (that preached diversity / opportunity / etc) during those cases just turned away this kid makes me want to puke. I won't even comment on his 5* status, our greatest position of need, and the impact this will have on RR's future recruting, as I'm sure this thread is full of that. For the first time in my life, I am truly ashamed to be a Michigan Wolverine.
I wish that what you said didn't make so much sense to me. Please re-write it, with an emphasis on having a lack of clarity and logic.
I feel the same. I can take the losing because I feel I understand as to why it was happening,
I can take the constant media crap because I feel I know better,
But I don't get this...you cannot tell a kid he can come and then go back on your word. This is embarrassing and I can't defend it. I don't know if RRod is pushing the limits on practice time and academic-eligibility more than previous coaches and the admissions & compliance departments are caught off guard or what? This has got to end....I feel like we are beginning to spiral out of control like I never thought would happen. Where is the communication, this is not a JCC, this is SUPPOSED to be the University of Michigan.
I just want to root for the kids/players and forget about all these other people that just seem to be incompetent. What the hell is going on? Actual games cannot start fast enough.
I feel like this is starting to feel like the end of Rodriguez. I thought he'd make it through this year, and be able to get to 2011 where we actually may have a good football team again. Now, I'm starting to think he's not going to get to 2011. Then the next coach will come in and look like a hero - with the kids RR brought in...I don't want the losers who jumped ship to be able to ever say ""i told you we just needed a new coach"....
This is depressing....
Double fuck you, Admissions Department.
You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.
this but the whole Dorsey fiasco really makes the Big U look like a bunch of incompetent jackasses.
Darn. We really could have used a highly rated cornerback this year.
Moving on....owait, it's not 2003 anymore. PANIC!!!!!!!!!
You guys know the meaning of catastrophe? It's when something that was trending ultra-good suddenly shifts directly to ultra-bad. I must admit, Dorsey was one of the brightest hope-blips for me and the coming season. I am now back to being a big-time believer in Cullen Christian.
There is some solace to be had in perspective. Dorsey was not a guarantee. The success rate for guys at his level is higher than those at a lower recruiting hype, but it's also hovering just under 50 percent. The defense is a little more decimated for four years. Well suck it up; we've been hit in the dong before, and we'll be hit in the dong again, and so long as we keep caring we will continue to get dong-punched. The alternative is ignoring that we have a football team. I'm not going there.
What sucks is that the fanbase went to bat for him and the newspapers disparaged him and then we all had to wait on one 18-year-old's Life Studies grade, and then ultimately the admissions office said "fuck you everyone, we're bigger than your piddly foot-ball" and that was that.
Maybe they're right. Maybe U-M admissions is a lot bigger than any potential student, even one potentially critical to the football team's success. Maybe they're so much bigger they can fuck around with applicants as much as they want to, and still get the pick of the litter every year. I would say this is a horrible way to run a business, but it's sometimes the Michigan way (in case you don't know anyone who was put on a waiting list then never informed one way or another).
Dorsey is one more story of a guy who got fucked by a major institution. Major institutions expect these things. They're also notoriously bad at caring about them, or how many people said fucked-over person will tell about it.
If a Spartan was really smart right now, he could call me up and say "How's your little perch on top of the mountain of sanctimony looking now?" but of course a Spartan doesn't know how to use "sanctimony."
Brian calls this being the whore who won't do that. It's apt, but not. Because the other side to this is we have all -- those of us who lived through Lloyd years -- been sanctimonious as hell about our myth. I sat atop that mountain, and I climbed down to live in the real world when my secondary was in danger. For those of us who have talked up the myth of Michigan's football program's intellectual superiority and then stood behind Dorsey, our hypocrisy is doubly-revealed today.
It's like spending your life extolling Jupiter, only to meet him in a bar and find out he's a dick.
I'm not ashamed to be a Michigan fan. I'm ashamed of how I have been a Michigan fan. I have gotten a good look today at the myth of Michigan's academic superiority, have gotten a glimpse of Olympia in the flesh, and have found it petty.
I've heard different things in different articles- Admissions wouldn't let him in, Athletics wouldn't sign off. I'm not sure we know the story of what really happened yet, and I'm willing to wait a bit to find out.
I guess you're right, though, Spartan fans wouldn't know how to use 'sanctimony'. But then that's because the delta between incoming athlete GPA (for revenue-producing sports anyway) and regular student GPA is lower than 1 at MSU- can UM claim that? That would also be because athletes at MSU aren't warehoused in do-nothing, no-future majors like General Studies or Kinesiology (seriously, WTF? Is 'Phys Ed' too taxing to say?) to keep them eligible. MSU doesn't pretend to have a class system, one for athletes and one for everyone else, while acting as if athletes are just another student.
I didn't mean to get on a rant about that. I was hoping they would take Dorsey, because I think he has the support and family structure to do well here and really turn his life around. I would have been excited for him even if his play ended up hurting my team. It's hard to admit you did wrong and try to make things better, to force yourself to make stronger choices. Right now, I'd really like to know just where his recruitment went wrong, and maybe then we'd all have something to scream about. Unless I'm an idiot and missed something obvious, in which case I'll be back to correct the record.
Let me start out by saying I wish Demar the best of luck in the future while he's in college and the NFL. In my mind he will always be a Michigan guy, really wanted to come here and absolutely loved everything about the team. Sadly the admissions screwed him over by saying he was good to come and then apparently changed their mind, hopefully this doesn't impact our future Florida recruiting. Words cannot describe how mad and ashamed I am of the admissions office right now.
This is about LifeSkills -- nothing else.
Let's not forget Michigan is under NCAA scrutiny right now. A possible "scandal" surrounding an athlete who used LifeSkills to artificially inflate his GPA to qualify is not a risk the University should take.
I really hope somebody takes him, but the idea that many of the elite programs mentioned aren't going to see the same problems Michigan did is absurd.
"Let's not forget Michigan is under NCAA scrutiny right now. A possible "scandal" surrounding an athlete who used LifeSkills to artificially inflate his GPA to qualify is not a risk the University should take."
How would there be a scandal if the NCAA Clearnghouse approved him? Isn't this just a case of Michigan's academic standards being higher than the NCAA minimum? I hope that RR and admissions are on the same page now. I think it is outrageous that we would offer a kid, let him sign and then deny him after he did everything he had to do to become eligible. Good luck to Demar, I hope you land squarely on both feet!
...the 1989 basketball championship.
Rumeal Robinson and Terry Mills came to Michigan in the short lived era of partial qualifiers. They both had to sit out their freshman years and were essentially branded as subpar academically. When I saw them around campus, I felt sorry for them that people would look at them and say to themselves that they didn't belong.
Partial qualifications were definitely the wrong approach.
This is beyond ridiculous! First we set up Coach Rod with a talentless class when he first arrives ( minus BG and Mallet, who left us) Then all the soft / cant hack it transfers take off and run their mouths to overambitious, agenda driven Free Press Jihadists. Next an NCAA investigation and probation. Just when we finally get some talent to come up and make a positive impact on our struggling program....Fucking admissions (or whoever else for that matter) re-negs on coach Rod's word and pulls a Deliverance like move on the program and future recruiting. Whatever happens with the program in the next 5 years is a result of the universities own doing. He never had a chance, maybe if he was a Michigan man....or how about just treated like one, things would have been different.
I've watched the Lifeskills video and I just can't get Demar Dorsey out of my head. He took initiative and wanted to do well in school and stay out of trouble. He seems like a good kid. But watch the video starting at 2:23, and my heart melts. That auditorium meant so much to him because he thought he had finally made it and he proudly announced his commitment to UM there. Now it's being taken away from him.
I know I sound overly dramatic, but I really feel awful for the kid, way more than I care about UM's image now and its secondary. I understand that UM has certain standards, but denying him admission was just wrong after stringing him along.
Made me sick to my stomach to see him talk about when he committed to Michigan. You knew how much it meant to him.
Now, while I do feel badly for DD and wish him the best, I cannot say I'm mad at the admissions office. I place this completely on RR and his staff. It is very well known that varsity athletes get in with much lower grades and test scores than the rest of the student population (98% btw). The athletic department has "liasons" to the admissions department and I'm pretty sure the football team has one or two that deals exclusively with football recruits. One of the every very first questions a coach/recruiter will ask a student athlete is "how are your grades?" The coaches know the standards and can quickly know if their recuits will be admitted. This is a clear case of RR trying to lower the bar, and failing. Should we be surprised? Step back and consider this is the University of MIchigan, we pride ourselves on our exceptional academics and athletics. People fall into the trap of seperating these two, and thanks to ESPN et al the line between professional sports and college sports has blurred considerably. For UM to decline admission to DD was a stark reminder that UM is a school first and athletic team second. I'm proud that UM has higher standards, we are a school that finds the minimum unacceptable and should continue to, even in the case of athletics. There are is plentyful amount of student-athletes that succeed in the classroom and on the field, and our success in previous years using the current UM standards (possibly higher than now) shows that we can have our cake and eat it too. To quote JFK, "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard." Running a successful athletic program using excpetional STUDENT-athletes is not easy, but we are the University of Michigan, we should, and we can.