Fair enough, Htown. I love words like "unacceptable". What's your solution?
well that's just, like, your opinion, man
I started writing this post at Heiko's apartment before my laptop battery mercifully bailed out, giving me a few minutes to think on the drive home. Time heals all wounds, they say; this wasn't nearly enough time.
Michigan got an early gift when Jake Ryan's crushing hit on Iowa QB Jake Rudock on a play-action rollout—sound familiar?—led to a fluttering pass that Brennen Beyer intercepted and took back seven yards for a touchdown. The defense came away with two other interceptions in the game; Blake Countess baiting Rudock for his second pick led directly to the second Wolverine touchdown, a two-yard pass to A.J. Williams that Iowa had completely dead to rights until Devin Gardner comically stiff-armed Tanner Miller to the ground in the backfield.
Left to its own devices, the Michigan offense could muster just one more score in the game, a nine-yard pass to Jeremy Gallon to give them a 21-7 halftime lead.
The Wolverines finished with 158 yards on 57 plays (2.8 ypp); the Greg Davis-coached Iowa offense managed to tally 407 yards (5.5 ypp) despite freezing temperatures and a howling wind. At one point in the second half, Al Borges called for back-to-back reverses—the first one worked; the second predictably failed miserably. Iowa adjusted to Michigan's fake-bubble-based run game and that was all she wrote; the defense, down both starting linebackers by the end of the game, couldn't stop the inevitable comeback.
Eight three-and-outs. Eight.
Gardner fumbled on a draw play on Michigan's final offensive possession, their first turnover of the game; it was unfortunate, to be sure, but at this point it's pretty tough to blame the guy:
Gardner walked in holding his right arm in his pant loop. Like a self made sling. He's absolutely injured, just a question of how severely
— Everett Cook (@everettcook) November 23, 2013
I watch him play and feel no anger, just sadness. Michigan is left with no reasonable option but to put him out there despite the fact that he's obviously not close to the same player he was last year or at the start of this season, clearly hurt, and being put in a position in which few—if any—quarterbacks could succeed. Gardner gives this team the best chance to win; he's also battered, skittish, and quite possibly flat-out injured.
Crazy things happen in football, which is why we keep watching. It'll take something beyond any reasonable expectation of crazy for Michigan to even stay competitive in The Game on Saturday.
Fair enough, Htown. I love words like "unacceptable". What's your solution?
You don't know much about Bo do you?
I'm all for giving him one more year as long as he gets rid of Funk and Borges. What does he have to lose?
Hoke has exactly 1 league championship in his 11 years as a head coach. He's NOT a proven winner. His qualifications were a former dline coach at Michigan and One great season at Ball St. And he was able to convince DB that he really, really loved Michigan. Loved manball, and would bring back something known as "Michigan" football.
This level of shit play is more than a few lucky breaks. What weed are you smoking? These coaches don't have it. Wake up.
If that was a reply to me, thanks but I don't smoke anything. The rest of your comment isn't coherent enough to know how to reply to it.
What's not coherent? This staff at best will bring us back to mediocrity. If Hoke doesn't fire Borges he himself should be fired plain and simple. You are just prolonging a tailspin by keeping the current staff intact. RR showed progress. I actually agree that he should have had 1 more year. Al Borges is a complete moron who single-handed my costs this team games. If you can't see that then you are a complete moron. Fans like you, blindly loyal, are the reason we are in this mess.
Not the whole reason. But a part if it. Business-like attitudes are what is needed to succeed. No production and you're fired. Borges doesn't have it. I don't really think hoke adds much to to the table in terms of x's and o's so if he doesn't regulate his coordinators he's of little use.
Firing Rich Rod after only three years was a collossal mistake, especially with the timing of the way he was fired. He should have been given a 4th year on a short leash a la Lane Kiffin and if he couldn't fix it in year 4, let go with Brandon having a full season to find his replacement. If that would have happened, Michigan wouldn't have ended up with an unproven sub-.500 coach with a career in the little leagues of college football.
And since we've all seen where 3 and Out gets Michigan, anyone talking about doing the same thing to Hoke is certifiable. This is the bed that was made. Maybe he'll hire a better OC and get it going in the right direction, maybe not. But a coach oughta get enough time to coach his own seniors.
Now, anyone still defending Borges is just a zealot for his brand of football and won't change their mind despite any evidence you give him. The game passed him by and he was put out to pasture in '07 and should have stayed there eating oats or whatever. A good OC would have put the team in position to win at least 10 games this season with this schedule. The Michigan State and Ohio State games might not have gone well due to the youth on the line, but we wouldn't be talking about losses to sorry teams like Penn State and near misses against the worst teams in FBS football.
Hoke's a CEO coach, and that means you got to fire people who suck at their job. A CEO coach who won't fire anyone is just a buffoon who could be replaced by a guy with a stats degree.
Remember when Pinkell was one of the top candidates with RichRod??? Well since Missouri is poised to do A&M's season one better this year, without their star QB no less... Starting to look like he might've been a decent hire instead of RR.... And the growing pains might've been less severe allowing him to make it through year 3.
Yep, Michigan loves coaches that get dui's.
is a nice narrative. It's familar tto us and comforting. One guy is playing great and the coaches and his teammates are failing him. Except it's not really true. He's playing hard and perhaps playing hurt (though I haven't heard any verified reports on that). But he's not playing well. He's playing pretty poorly. Lots of guys (A.J. Williams and Fitz have had injuries this season) are playing hard through injury. Funk, who people just brutally ream around here, just lost his father. Gardner is performing every bit as bad as they are, and tet nobody seems to give them a martyrs narrative. I'm not hating on him, I don't think he's terrible or anything like that. But stop forcing this story on us.
I get the anger I really do. It has been maddening to watch this offense implode and become a laughing stock incapable of winning a game that is practically handed to them (Iowa, Penn State) or get manhanled and not respond (MSU, Nebraska). The defense has played their hearts out even as they eventually give up the game late.
But this nuke the coaches from orbit and start over mindset is more madness. Continuity in coaching and players is critical in football. An offense has to become second nature, players have to gel, repition breeds success, etc. i am not syaing Borges is the answer on offense or I would be upset if we brought in someone new but we can't clean house.
Just a few plays and a few games can change a seson very easily. Especially when you are talking sophmores in college. This year we just haven't found a way to make those plays. Missed field goals against Penn State ruined a nice second half. Today a number of dropped passes killed drives and momentum (Funchess in particular). Things just are not clicking.
Everybody is talking about how Michigan State is in better shape than we are but have you forgotten last year? They lost a bunch of close games. Andin 2009 they lost 7 games. They have built a tought defense and found their offense. They used to have a reputation of not being able to win close games but this year they have been solid.
Yes, the offense looks lost but an inability to block, a lack of identity and critical dropped passes will do that to you.
There is no silver bullet that will magically make this team a contender. It will take time and development. Firing Hoke and starting over would be a disaster. We need to make some changes but wholesale change because the season went south is not the answer.
That's if there is any visible improvement week to week. There is none that I see. Do you see the play calling? You are a complete idiot for holding that opinion. Sorry. Cut our losses now. After peppers enrolls.
UM has WON some close games this year (Akron, UConn, NW-ern) that they probably deserved to lose. They have also lost some close games (NEB, PSU, Iowa) that weren't really close.
If UM had the "we lost a bunch of close games and otherwise we'd be good" season that MSU had last year, then UM's record would be 4-7 right now and Ann Arbor would have literally experienced spontaneous cumbustion and blown to pieces! Now it's simply boiling.......
"Yes, the offense looks lost but an inability to block, a lack of identity and critical dropped passes will do that to you."
is that kinda like:
"Yes, Iraq looks lost, but 150,000 critically dropped US bombs will do that to you".
Programs that are progressing show signs of just that--progress. This team is going backwards and getting worse each season. I just do not have any hope that Hoke and Co. will ever take the program anywhere but the middle of the pack. Keeping him longer is just prolonging the agony. Get a top-shelf guy in here who has a proven track record of success.
Defiantly team 134. They have 3 coaches making a combined 4 million dollars a season and this is the product they come up with.
They are not being cooperative apparently.
There are a bunch of leaks on the USS 134 but the biggest is the play of the O line. Play calling may be suspect but what plays will work if you can't block or at least slow down wrong colored jerseys any better than we do? Can't move the ball, can't score, can't keep the defense of the field. It really does taint everything and maybe the worse thing is what it has done to DG's health, confidence and development as a QB. Granted, he has his own issues at times with his decision making but the lack of solid line play has not helped his cause or anybody trying to rush thru holes that are rarely where they are supposed to be.
It is down right weird seeing those beautiful winged helmets not winning the line of scrimage like I have seen for so many years!
There are other holes but fix this one and this ship will sail better.
He beat Oregon today 42-16? That's a better win that we've had since firing him.
I'll take wins over ND UTL 1 & 2, stopping a 4 game losing skid to State and beating Ohio St for the first time in over a decade... Oh, and a Sugar Bowl win over a pretty good Va Tech team over a meaningless regular season win over an Oregon program who hasn't done anything significant in college football outside of wearing a different uniform combo every game. Is Oregon good and fun to watch? Absolutely. But they haven't achieved anything and get exposed regularly every time they play big, talented, physical teams... Much like RichRod when he coached here ironically enough! Boise St, Auburn, LSU, Ohio St and Stanford have all made Oregon look very different than all of their other regular season cupcakes... They were even very fortunate to beat Wisconsin on a flukey TO.
This Oregon team would have beaten all of those teams you mentioned. Notre Dame is still Notre Dame. Ohio State with a true freshman QB and no coach. Michigan State at home in a transitional year.
him lose to Washington State last week
Who were these people thinking positive things in 2010?
Some people have learned so little from the last 5 years it's hilarious.
Okay......UM gets a turnover in the Red Zone late in the Nebraska game, right? The score is tied 10-10, right? What's the deal? Borges tries three futile runs, obviously trying to play it safe and set up a go-ahead field goal.
After the game, somebody asks Bogres why he went for 3. His answer? "Cause I couldn't go for two........."
hey, don't look at me, he's the one who can't call plays
a sky writer to write Go Blue over Ohio Stadium this week.
Yeah, ok, so stop with the "what if RR would have been able to get someone like mattison" scenarios. The fact is, it never happened, and this is real life. Yeah, I have played it out in my own head, and see student sections lined with brunettes while hearing the victors being pumped through millions of televisions across the world in January.
I cannot stand to watch this, and I am not even mad
I feel bad for the kids out there, the ones that I KNOW have the talent to succeed. I feel BAD for Gardner, while he has made his big mistakes, he has also taken so many hits that I'd have a hard time blaming him if he just walked away from this team and never came back.
David Brandon hired hoke like a true business man, as a marketing move. Hoke LOOKED and SOUNDED like MICHIGAN MANBALL. WE. WILL WALK. TO. MICHIGAN.
Oh, how the geriatric boosters love you, good sir. Let us hope that you can win football games as well.
Bless the F'n hearts of the defense of this team. They are way better than given credit for, have stats that look like crap because they are constantly starting on their heels and get off the field for just long enough to take a piss before they get Borgess'd back onto the field.
Ya know, I think Hoke COULD be the answer, but borges/funk gotta go. This athletic department made a coaching decision based on what would market best to the boosters hearing aids. I am sick of manball, I am sick of tradition. Ohio has managed to keep tradition while evolving a bit. Just watching how electric their crowds are on TV makes me sad. This school took a short term fix to their problem and now the younger generation in Ann Arbor is starting to not even care about this program. Are we going to start taking away rows when these gasbags start dying off and nobody is there to replace them as season ticket holders?
What has this coaching staff done, anyways? Took RR's class (which was thin because of ATTRITION) and managed to win a BCS game the first year solely because of mattison ship-shaping up the defense?
Ok, full-out rambling has commenced. I am just sick of this. I hate manbawl, I hate no free programs, I hate everything. This team has an obvious lack of faith in their offensive coaching staff. Morale is low, I almost cried watching DG on TV after the game -- call me a pussy. I don't care, this is crap. It is absolutely SAD that I was able to procure ROW A tickets on the michigan sideline for next weekend for well under 200 dollars.... a game where we are playing a team that has won almost two dozen straight games. This should be an exciting week. We should be talking about the huge game next week, even in a down season....down DECADE, next week usually still feels like a game that rivals the superbowl.
Right now, next week feels like I do not even care anymore. Right now all i can think is "hear, hear" as I read through all of the posts. Right now I look at the tweets, the blogs, the faceboooks, and am dejected at the people lashing out at our quarterback, because I just cannot help but to think that this kid is way better than is being shown, and I feel like I am watching Varsity Blues every time I watch Devin limp off the field.
This is the first time i have almost not even cared about next week's game, but I will go, and I will support this team, but I cannot support this coaching staff (with the exception of the defense) or the administration that marketed them as the second coming of Bo.
Devin limps off the field half the time because he is too stupid to throw the ball away when out of the pocket.
The kid is our only option for the last two games but he just isn't a great QB. He was certainly better early in the year but he is broken now.
Yes it is all Devin's fault. An immobile pocket-passer would do so much better with guys in his face all day.
At least Devin is able to bail us out of shit calls and telegraphed plays the defense has knows is coming two days prior (eg the TD pass to AJ Williams)
Fuck off and die.
Really you are going to refer to Devin "as too stupid to throw the ball away", we do not need fans like you who refer to our quarterback as too stupid. Devin graduated in 3 1/2 years so I doubt intelligence is the issue, how about a total failure by his position coach to coach him.
Well said friend. Best of luck enduring next Saturday.
Oh, and to the apologists making light of RR losing to washington state as to try to dull out the fact that his squad just took out oregon... Let us not forget that we barely managed to get past AKRON and UCONN, then having to watch the game against PSU be thrown away.. Maybe "thrown" is not the right word. Bottom line is, the Arizona fan base is a hell of a lot more optimistic about their program than our fanbase --- That is not just because "THIS IS MICHIGAN," but because it really is that bad.
We have talent that has shown itself of being capable of breaking school/conference/NCAA records, but still cannot find cohesion. This is coaching.
This is a new low, lower than it felt every time denard came into the game last year at QB after the injury knowing it was going to be a designed run every single time. Knowing he was being set up to fail. Watching these kids at skill positions play their hearts out for a staff that is raking in millions with thieir heads up their asses. Every minute of every game this year has felt like the 2nd half of the Ohio game last year....At least monkey rodeo was entertaining. This just makes me pissed off and depressed. Maybe I shouldn't have came here and read this after coming home from a night out at the pub, This sucks, and I hope it gets better for the players, and for the sake of the school.
The offense could never get any rythm this year with Gardner. The defense would eventually get tired and make some mistakes. Do I think coaching had a part to play in Gardners play? Absolutley, but for the most part my gut tells me this coaching staff did everything they could to prepare Gardner every week but he just couldnt cut it. He made terrible TERRIBLE decisions over and over again. The one thing that sealed the deal for me though was I havent seen any leadership from Gardner. Never saw him yelling or trying to pump guys up. His body language was always emotionless. Sure he would do some celebrations when we scored. But why nothing to try and pump his guys up to set up long drives? You always saw stuff from Denard, leadership qualities. And poise under pressure. I do believe Gardner would have performed much better if we could actually run the ball, something I put on the coaches and inexperience. Keeping Fitz in the game over Deveon Smith though? Thats a terrible call by hoke, Jackson? I dont know but just a terrible call. Fitz hasnt been the same since 2011. I dont give a shit if he was the hardest worker and a great example for the younger guys or whatever other reason they decided to leave him in there, the guy wasnt performing. For the most part I saw good pass blocking today. Giving Gardner adequite time to find someone. It never happened. Or recievers dropped balls, but in that weather you gotta cut them some slack. Theres no way were firing Hoke just yet, and it would be stupid. Also, and i know people will think im insane but my gut tells me to let Borges have one more year. I just believe Gardner has been the main problem this year, for the most part.
Totally agree. Gardner has the skills, but his decision-making has been very poor. Couple that with some timely dropped passes / whiffed blocks / bad cuts from RBs and you have a recipe for disaster on offense.
then we have had two star QBs that regressed under these coaches. we also have numerous offensive linemen who haven't gotten better or are perceived to have gotten worse on the field. we have a slew of RBs, TEs and WRs who are terrible at blocking. at some point we should realize that all of these players are not uncoachable. we have some coaches who probably just can't coach/teach.
Does anyone else feel like we are going NOWHERE? How can next year be much better?
I guess the most concerning part besides our oline and qb is the fact that I have no idea where we are in the grand scheme of hoke and his staff. It's starting to look more like epic fail than building a juggernaut.
Shouldn't we have at least a glimpse of the product hoke and his staff want to be almost into our FOURTH year. I don't see it.
I don't know guys....we have a LONG way to go. I'm not sure it's going to happen next year with another new look oline and our qb running for his life.
Hope we don't lose recruits.
Borges cannot get another year. He did the same thing last year. We had a few good games last year with some deep balls. Borges will be really good as long as the DEF knows what is coming and they still can't stop anyway. Look at Bama and what Manzel did to them. No DEF is going to shut down in a league like ours, unless it is Purdue...
Hoke seems like a great guy and runs a clean program. But Borges needs to go and we should hire a OC from another Manball colleges that is successful. Hoke is not running spread, ever.
If we still are in the same place, go hire a head coach that has a successful Resume in CFB big league or in NFL. Make him the highest paid coach. Make some splash. Or hire one of those commentators from ESPN who used to coach. May be they will love M then.
Higher standards should not mean less success in Football field (Looking at you ND, NW). If that is what it means and people look at Football only and don't care about the academics, then just go hire someone who will win at all cost.
It is ok not to be Alabama, as long as we get to say that we are the most successful program with high academics in public schools. It does not mean we can't tweak our coaches, but I would rather be proud of our academics, a few BCS wins every decade and generally a top 15 football program. A few bad years, like this one, is fine, as long as we address the issues with tweaks.
For those of you cheering for an ohio win next week, or hoping for one EFFFFFFF YOU! Go Blue! It's been painful to watch the offense sputter but this shit from our base is just as pathetic. I'm a Michigan snob that thinks we should be great every year and loses like this years, even some of the wins, leave me down and out for a couple days. But to not want to beat ohio because you want another coaching change?> What about the seniors that have put more in to this program than you ever will? Seriously and I mean this from the bottom of my heart EFFFFF YOU!
Even if a loss to Ohio would solidify the fact the AB would be fired (which I absolutely want) I still would never root for my team to lose.
The reason I love this team and follow this program is the players. I couldn't care less who coaches, so long as they give them the best chance to win and I just don't believe this offensive staff does that. If they did I could get past the boring (at least to me) brand of football they want to run.
At the end of the day, I think it's fairly certain that even if we do lose to Ohio (which is pretty much certain at this point) I'm afraid Al isn't going anywhere.
So much hate up in here for Lloyd Carr.
The guy who actually won an NC?
The guy who won multiple Big Ten Titles?
How do you hate on this guy?
is the friggin' arrogance and stubborness of Hoke. Now, with our big rival game next Saturday, when Gardner can't walk or throw or anything because he gave it his all, we will have a Zero experience quarterback to throw to the wolves. Great job Jackass!
Not having a legitimate 2nd stringer to come in from time to time this season to try to avoid going 3 and out every friggin' series is an absolute glaring failure of this arrogant, fat , idiot loser who will be fired after we get pasted by the obviously better team from the south.
It makes me sick! The free pass is so over with this guy, get some Real Football people in here to run the decision making for our program. Not these corporate yes men pieces of shit who only care about $$$.
The Football Culture is so F#cked right now in Ann Arbor, who will be the hero to come in and save our beloved football program? Does it NEED to be a former player? A True Michigan Man? ( whatever that really means anyway ). I say who gives a shit, get the best Football Minds together and let's put a Real Program together. All this loyalty to mediocrity is unacceptable.
- when the quarterback is sucking balls, you put in another guy ( and don't say there isn't another guy )
- when play calling is predictable and ineffective, you get on the damn headset and chew your OC's head off DURING THE GAME and make him run something else!
- well coached players rarely make the same mistakes twice, especially all season long
- a coach who throws his players under the bus, ever, is on his way out because he has failed and is grasping at anything to prolong his employement.
When Hoke is fired, nobody in DIV 1A will hire him, NOBODY. He is FINISHED.
What Gardner is feeling I think the professionals call that PTSD.
is worse than MLive. Thankfully much of the riff raff won't be here next September.
You are right. This whole community needs to step away from the ledge.
The most important thing Hoke and his staff are doing is re-stocking the pond. They are hitting it out of the park in that area.
This team will grow up, and when they do they will be frightening.
I thought the game thread yesterday was a disgrace and I read very little of the posts, but someone said something pretty interesting (at least to me).
They mentioned that after 3 seasons RR was 7-5 and got canned. In those three years he improved in record every season and there wasn't much doubt he would have improved the next year too. Despite that he still got the boot.
Hoke in his third year is most likely going 7-5.while showing steady regression each year. Many will point to his overall record as a reason he should stay (and I wouldn't argue with that) but the bottom line is after three seasons under each coach we are in the same mess, though with this staff it looks to be getting worse instead of better.
Now I honestly don't think Hoke should go (just like I didn't believe RR should have been canned after three years) but I think he should be given the same ultimatum I thought RR should have been given...fire your coordinator or find another job.
that Hoke was too successful early on? Actually though it is dark now, the incoming classes, along with the classes of 2012 and 2013, are far and away superior to anything RR had. Michigan football this year is a product of hollow recruiting during the RR administration, things will get better. Or do you believe that the same coaching staff that was 11-2 in 2011 is incapable of repeating that success?
Uhm the 2011 team was RR's TEAM!!!! Hoke cannot take any credit for that OTHER then the Defense changes / success. RR would have went 11 - 1 if he was allowed one more season! Fat ass Borges, Funk and Fred Jackson Need their collective asses CANNED.
but let me get this straight...You want to give credit to this staff for the 11-2 season they had in their first year with an entire team of players who were coached and developed by a different coach, and you also want to blame that previous coach for the losses this staff is having three years after the fact? Do you see how absolutely ridiculous your position is?
To answer your question though, I do believe this coaching staff (as it stands now) is incapable of repeating that success.
Oh, and my point wasn't that Hoke was too successful early, it was that the team under his coaching has steadily regressed.
Not ridiculous if you take the time to look at the OL depth chart. RR's catastrophic OL recruiting was a roster time bomb - you don't see the impact of it until the OL he should have brought in would have been upperclassmen. For us, that time is now.
To make matters worse, TE's are also babies, since RR barely recruited that position.
Net result: our JV can't block the other team's varsity. Go figure.
Are you seriously suggesting that the measure of Borges and Funk as coaches is whether or not they can "coach up" freshmen and RS freshmen to manhandle juniors and seniors?
Let's not get on a never ending 3-year-cycle coaching carrousel. The dif between Hoke and RR is the quality of the recruits that Hoke is bringing in.