I Learned How To Put Myself In A Box A Long Time Ago Comment Count

Brian

9/6/2014 – Michigan 0, Notre Dame 31 – 1-1

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[Bryan Fuller]

I set a new record for earliest departure from a Michigan game Saturday: 10 minutes and change, besting the 2007 Oregon game that I left with about six minutes left. And I feel… okay, I guess.

Ace and I did the podcast Sunday and it's actually kind of good. This is a far cry from previous podcasts in the aftermath of doom. The Alabama one was barely worth recording, and we knew it at the time. This one runs down the suck but there's a jaunty air and no one seems like they're taking the bar exam after a 72-hour bender.

We are used to it. And hey, man, Michigan outgained Notre Dame. I know we lost 31-0 but that was nowhere near as emasculating as that aforementioned Oregon game or the 2008 Ohio State game in which Brandon Minor was the only Michigan player who looked like he was in college instead of high school or last year's Michigan State game in which Michigan acquired –48 rushing yards. Or maybe it was but we can't tell because our football testicles have been ground away by the sandpaper of the last seven years and all we feel is increasing smoothness.

Yeah.

Yeah man.

Oh man. This feels really smooth.

I can't even remember why I didn't want this bit between my legs to be so flat you could try to set a land speed record over it.

-----------------------------

I don't know, man. You only have one thing to base predictions of the future on: the past. And the past suggested that Blake Countess was a pretty good cornerback who couldn't cope with Tyler Lockett. It didn't look like that on Saturday night. It looked like Tony Gibson was in town again.

Notre Dame built its unassailable lead on a series of man press-type coverages on which ND would break to the inside unmolested without a Michigan cornerback even there to tackle on the catch. That is a recipe for disaster. With Raymon Taylor knocked out and Channing Stribling burned just like Countess was on his first play, Michigan had no choice but to throw Countess out there again. He promptly ended up yards away from Will Fuller on the fade all the inside stuff had set Michigan up for.

Countess had six interceptions as part of a pretty good pass defense a year ago and while that was a passive zone thing you kind of figure that guys capable of doing that will be capable at man coverage.

That was emphatically disproven on Saturday, throwing the entire offseason into question. The deck chair shuffling of defensive coaches touted as the path forward now looks ludicrous.

If

  1. you're going to give your defense an extreme makeover based on pressure and man-to-man coverage and
  2. you rearrange your coaching staff so that your new cornerbacks coach is a guy who has never played or coached the position before and
  3. then your corners are a complete fiasco in their first real test, then

people are going to think that's a bad idea man.

By all accounts Roy Manning is a terrific recruiter and enthusiastic, dedicated coach. He's just not a secondary coach. That kind of random insertion at position X is something lower-level (like, DII) schools do because of limited resources. Michigan found itself in that position because…

I don't actually know. That was not a rhetorical pause.

Best as I can figure, Hoke loathes firing anyone. For most of last year it was expected that Borges would return because those were the vibes the program was emanating, and the about-face there still has conspiracy theorists asserting that Brandon made him make the switch. Approximately 80% of emails to me this offseason were some variant of FIRE DARRELL FUNK FERGODSAKES, and it's hard to imagine many programs sticking with the offensive line coach after that.

Meanwhile Hoke's standoffishness with everyone outside the program is increasing daily. Everyone inside the velvet rope is golden. Everyone on the outside is garbage. The bunker mentality is suddenly warranted, at least.

-------------------------------

Getting blown out 31-0 by Notre Dame is a gamechanging event. You can feel it in the nonsense decisions Hoke made in the second half. Michigan played turtle ball that saw Michigan run 35 seconds off the clock between snaps in the middle of the third quarter; they left Funchess and Gardner in the game deep into the fourth quarter. Let's look like we're trying without actually doing so. Make it look good for the boss.

Gardner ended up taking a lethal cheap shot on the final snap, and no one in a winged helmet seemed to notice or care. That was eerily reminiscent of the hockey team a couple years ago when Mac Bennett was the recipient of a dirty hit at the end of a 5-1 blowout at the hands of lowly BGSU. No one responded, and it was obvious they were cooked.

Hoke talks about toughness constantly, but when asked to defend their quarterback they walked away, to a man. Maybe that's Taylor Lewan's fault too.

This program has a real knack for blaming the people who aren't around anymore for its current failings. Let's detail those real quick: Michigan is 3-7 in their last ten games with wins over Indiana, Northwestern in three overtimes, and Appalachian State. Brady Hoke was 16-4 with Denard Robinson as his starting quarterback and is 11-9 since, excluding the Nebraska game he went out of. Michigan has one road win over a team with a winning record, that over 7-6 Illinois in 2011. The trajectory is not good.

This is a breaking point. Either Michigan comes to Jesus, or they break. It was at this moment that Michigan hockey turned to Andrew Copp, a freshman, because it was clear no one else had any of that leadership stuff, and charged towards respectability. They ended up short, but it was better than that BGSU game in which they couldn't muster a third-period shot until 15 minutes in.

There's time yet to salvage something, Lloyd Carr-style, but little reason to believe such a thing is possible. One thing's certain: we are running out of people to blame other than the ones in charge.

Highlights

From the ND perspective, not that there's any other possible:

MGoVideo has the Michigan version of events.

Awards

brady-hoke-epic-double-point_thumb_31[2]Brady Hoke Epic Double Points Of The Week. Devin Funchess (#1) was real good at catching the ball, especially that one time they targeted him downfield at the end of the third quarter.

#2 Willie Henry was a key component of a run defense that held Notre Dame to 72 yards, sacks and whatnot excluded.

#3 Ryan Glasgow was also a key component of that run D.

Honorable mention:

Epic Double Point Standings.

6: Devin Funchess (#1, APP, #1 ND)
2: Devin Gardner (#2, APP), Willie Henry (#2 ND)
1: Ryan Glasgow (#3, ND)
0.5: Kyle Kalis (T3, APP), Ben Braden (T3, APP)

Brady Hoke Epic Double Fist-Pump Of The Week.

For the single individual best moment.

Nothing.

Honorable mention: Nothing.

Epic Double Fist-Pumps Past.

AppSt: Derrick Green rumbles for 60 yards.
ND: Nothing.

imageMARCUS HALL EPIC DOUBLE BIRD OF THE WEEK. Other than everything it has to be the fourth-and-three conversion on which Countess was nowhere to be found. That led to an ND touchdown that opened the margin to two touchdowns.

Honorable mention: Matt Wile misses two field goals to end longish drives and put Michigan in a hole. Gardner has Chesson wide open 20 yards downfield in front of his face, holds the ball, and gets annihilated, fumbling. Countess torched on a fade.

PREVIOUS EPBs

AppSt: Devin Gardner dares to throw an incomplete pass.
ND: Countess nowhere to be found on fourth and three.

[After the JUMP: things. probably!]

Offense

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[Fuller]

My perceptions of things are going to be warped. I have old-timey seats for home games and watch a lot of road games on TV, so I'm not used to the all-22-ish view endzone seats high up provide and don't feel particularly confident about evaluating anything line-related.

The thing about sitting there is that the field seems so unbelievably enormous and uncoverable, especially when there are two spreads going at each other.

Yup, spread. Michigan spent probably 80% of its night in a shotgun and with three wide or thereabouts. The personnel was often 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB; the tight ends acted as WRs maybe 40% of the time. And that seemed like the best option.

I'm still not sure how Michigan rushed for like two yards a carry; it felt like the line was actually opening up some holes. Speaking of…

Offensive line stuff. It also didn't feel like Gardner was under siege that much. There were a couple of inexplicable events where Sheldon Day (of all people) was left alone, but when they actually blocked guys the kind of pressure they were allowing was gentle pocket pushing that should have given Gardner enough time to get something done. He did not.

From my vantage point he looked confused; even aside from the turnovers—the fumble was truly boggling—he just did not get rid of the ball in a timely fashion. And the fumble was boggling. That pocket was fine; he had to move around a little but then had all day and a wide open Chesson right down the pipe. He ignored him.

TEMPO, TEMPO, TEMPO. I give up. IIRC, Gardner's first interception came on a play where Michigan got to the line late and had to snap or die, giving him little time to look at what the defense was providing and no time for the OL to identify a blitz off the corner that caused him to throw a ball to no one in a winged helmet. Then they were getting the play off with four seconds left on the clock in the third quarter. Michigan managed the clock worse than a team that burned all its first half timeouts in the first 12 minutes of the game.

This is not an offensive coordinator thing. This is a program thing. It is never going to be any better with Hoke in Ann Arbor.

Honeymoon: over. Despite the overall sensible shape of the offense, the swing away from Borges-ball was so severe that Michigan's first downfield shot at a 5'9" corner with Devin Funchess happened 45 minutes in. I'm flabbergasted by that. This wasn't throwing deep balls at Junior Hemingway in a trash tornado with Denard Robinson as your QB. It was an obviously good matchup for you featuring a height difference of at least a half-foot. It should have been tried on just about every drive.

Maybe I'll see a ton more pressure on Gardner that I thought existed watching the game live.

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so unbelievably tiny [Fuller]

Norfleet: extant. Dennis Norfleet was an unexpected focus of the offense in the first half; on the play above he caught up to a looping ball from Gardner for the world's shortest over-the-shoulder catch. Aside from one bubble screen he had no shot on, he was effective and productive. He even took a handoff for about ten yards. Hooray.

Speaking of that bubble: that kind of overplay is ripe for a riposte; Michigan never went back to it for the bubble-fake-to-slant-or-post thing.

Defense

The recovery. Jourdan Lewis was forced into a lot of playing time and suffered for it early. On ND's first touchdown drive he was the recipient of a couple of pass interference calls. This was one:

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[Bryan Fuller]

That was unnecessary panic. Check the sideline: the wide receiver is leaping into it. Lewis played that route about perfectly and freaked out when he'd already defeated the route.

But the run defense was great! Seriously, it was great. ND rushed for about 75 yards, sacks and whatnot excluded. ND's tailbacks each had a long of six yards and they only got as far as that because it felt like the linebackers were missing tackles on Cam McDaniel. On any other planet on any other day that is a foundation for victory. That is a win against a veteran offensive line and some good backs—Bryant in particular looked hard to bring down in ways that Michigan's backs are not.

No Peppers was bad. Delonte Hollowell got worked over in the slot, incapable of sticking with the slot receivers either inside or out. I wholeheartedly reject any idea that Michigan doesn't have enough talent or that injuries played a major factor when Notre Dame is down four starters, including their top WR; at this spot the dropoff was severe and understandable. Probably anyway, we haven't exactly seen Peppers play much.

Clark did have some impact. He was spinning around the left tackle with regularity, but Golson was mobile enough to get out of the way. Michigan didn't get enough contribution from a second guy to get Golson on the ground, and the guy is great on the move. They had one third and long conversion where he was flushed and put it on a guy's numbers 20 yards downfield and the coverage was actually tight. That one was just a tip of the hat.

Miscellaneous

Firing guy stuff. For the record, firing someone before the end of the regular season is a pointless exercise in self-immolation. I shouldn't have to say that, you're probably thinking, but I got a lot of emails and tweets about shoving Hoke out of the airplane on the way home. And, hey, Michigan could rip off a bunch of wins in a crappy conference and then this game is just a weird ND stadium juju thing. Information is good and we're about to get a lot more of it.

I do think this game changes the way an 8-4 season might be looked at, especially if it's followed by hamblastings at Michigan State (likely) and Ohio State (maybe not so likely). I don't know about everyone's dimestore psychological readings of Dave Brandon, a man who says "I could care less." Most assert that he won't admit he was wrong and will hold on to Hoke, but soft ticket demand threatens to undermine the only thing Brandon defenders have in their pocket: the annual budget's revenue line. Since Brandon defenders include Brandon, a move might happen as the guy attempts to save himself.

Of course, the prospect of another Brandon-led coaching search terrifies. You can deep-six an athletic director whenever you want. That would be the canary in the coal mine here.

The nicest thing about South Bend: going to a rivalry game without feeling like you may be assaulted at any time for wearing the wrong colors. I have been to Notre Dame five times and literally the worst thing that's happened to me is that a small child said "good game, mister" after Michigan lost 25-23 during the Navarre era. That will be the all-time record. I've gone to games that have nothing to do with Michigan wearing M gear and gotten more guff than I have in South Bend.

Weird that the same fanbase has the worst internet fans in the world, but you have to keep in mind that anyone talking about something on the internet is by definition part of the fringe—IIRC stats say 90% of people just read.

Here

Inside The Box Score:

Both teams had 8 TFLs. Notre Dame was able to overcome theirs. That may be because our defense only picked up 31 yards on our 8 TFLs, while they gained 52 yards.
* Only three of our 8 TFLs given up occurred in the first half, so I don't think you can blame them for the 21-0 deficit. That's a positive, right?
* Of the 8, only 2 were accrued by the running backs. For all the complaining about the offensive line, at least we're getting a stalemate or better in the running game. The problem is in the passing game where blockers are inexplicably leaving interior defensive lineman free to get to the QB, and the QB is not utilizing his pressure relief valves, i.e., the running backs. Joe Kerridge had 1 reception for 4 yards, and that's it for the RBs. When a team is blitzing consistently, the screen game or the quick dumpoff must be utilized. Joe Kerridge had 1 reception for 4 yards, and that's it for the RBs. Yes, that merits repeating because I thought we were done with that crap when Borges left.

Best And Worst:

Meh:  Pressure?

Honestly, I'm not sure what happened out there in terms of pressure from the defensive line.  You look at the box score and see some TFLs, 1 sack and a couple of QB hits and it looks like another disappointing outing for a unit that just can't seem to get to the QB against quality offensive lines.  And yet, ND was held to around 2.5 yards a carry on 28 non-QB runs, and Golson was definitely getting the ball out quickly to slow down the rush.  It still seems like it's a line of good players without a true playmaker, and in this scheme you need a line that can create havoc so that your corners and LBs are being forced to keep up with receivers for extended periods of time.  I know people want to treat this as another sign of hype being exposed, but I'm just not sure yet.

Elsewhere

Nussmeier gets the worst nut from the HSR:

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Might have to figure out what –1 is for State. Touch The Banner:

This offensive line isn't as bad as last year. Center Jack Miller was repeatedly shoved back into Devin Gardner's grill, and that's a problem. But not every team has a Jarron Jones. Mason Cole and Erik Magnuson had several communication issues on the left side, but that comes with the territory of starting a true freshman left tackle. Regardless of the numbers, I thought the offensive line looked closer to the one that opened up huge holes against Appalachian State than the one that soured the taste in our mouths in 2013. Michigan is not a team that can wear teams down by running the ball, but they should be able to run the ball enough to keep most defenses off balance.

The shutout streak is over. Sap issues no decals. The Mood:

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Comments

sambora114

September 8th, 2014 at 12:39 PM ^

I left the game after Gardner's second pick in the 4th quarter. I really wasn't that disappointed, merely puzzled at the performance.

Usually I have that bemused indifference when watching the Lions but Michigan's consistent mediocrity since I graduated (2007) shares that apathetic emotion.

mGrowOld

September 8th, 2014 at 12:40 PM ^

"This is not an offensive coordinator thing. This is a program thing. It is never going to be any better with Hoke in Ann Arbor."

What I don't understand is how does he do that?  He isn't involved in play-calling in any way so how would he slow things down?  Doesnt the call go directly from Nuss to Gardner so how would (and why) Hoke want to delay the play call coming in?

Erik_in_Dayton

September 8th, 2014 at 12:45 PM ^

I'm 95% behind Brian's post (at least), but I think the tempo problem was likely the result of having a mostly young offense playing in a hostile environment in its first year under a new OC.  All signs point to Hoke leaving his coordinators mostly alone, and Nuss understands the importance of tempo.  I think you have to conclude that the offense simply couldn't get themselves together quickly - at least not with any consistency. 

FreddieMercuryHayes

September 8th, 2014 at 12:58 PM ^

That's just the thing.  Improvement over the season.  Something that has been seemingly absent the last two years.  If the team can actually show improvement, put strong performances, and pick of one of MSU or OSU, then the narrative of the season takes on a different tone.  But at this point, it's not certain anything will improve over the season.

stephenrjking

September 8th, 2014 at 1:28 PM ^

Here's what will improve it: Hoke saying, "get the team up to the line, calling alignments, by :20 to go." Or, "at least two series in the first half should be unscripted no-huddle." Or, "tempo whenever we are behind." If Hoke says it, it will happen. The coaches are smart guys, they'll find a way to make it work.

RockinLoud

September 8th, 2014 at 2:37 PM ^

I want to qualify this by saying this is nothing more than pure speculation. Part of me thinks that Hoke doesn't believe in tempo unless it's absolutely, positively needed (like trailing in the last 5 mins of the 4th qtr).  Almost like he believes that huddling is always the better option for some reason. Or maybe he doesn't get from an offensive perspective why a no-huddle approach is the better option in some cases no matter where the game clock is. I really hope the latter is not true.

westwardwolverine

September 8th, 2014 at 12:52 PM ^

But at a certain point, when its 21-0 or 28-0 midway through the third quarter, don't you have to try? Isn't it good practice later, especially if you are keeping your starters in? 

It just seems like we have so many excuses for things other programs just go out and do. 

MI Expat NY

September 8th, 2014 at 12:57 PM ^

Are you saying that we couldn't or haven't put in a 2-minute drill offense?  What were we going to do if we had 80 yards to go in two minutes and no timeouts?  I'm sorry, there may be something to being young and not highly profecient at it yet, but if we weren't even capable of bringing it out when the situation absolutely dictated that we should, that's an even worse coaching problem than suggesting that Hoke has a problem with going uptempo.  

markusr2007

September 8th, 2014 at 1:11 PM ^

Previous play is over.

You got knocked down to the ground.

You pick yourself up.

You jog over to the new spot of the ball and line up.

What is so goddamn complicated about that?

This was not happening in the ND game, or it was happening too slowly.

Why would this error not have been addressed by the coaches between series? At quarter ends? At half-time?

I don't understand why the Michigan offensive players need a whole freaking season or half even half a season to figure out that they need to move their asses.  "Gee guys, we really should be getting to the line of scrimmage quicker and speed things up, so our QB and coordinators can make pre-snap reads!".

Why would it take a group of players weeks to comprehend something like this, that H.S. football players do straight out of the freaking gate?  It makes zero sense, especially after months of spring and fall practice with the new OC and new playbook.

snarling wolverine

September 9th, 2014 at 12:37 AM ^

The fact that ND also had trouble getting the play call in (resulting in several burned timeouts) suggests that this may just be one of those things that happens more early in the season.  If it doesn't get better as the weeks go on, then we've got a problem.

 

 

MI Expat NY

September 8th, 2014 at 12:54 PM ^

A decision has to be made to go uptempo.  It's not just a matter of getting plays in in reasonable time.  It's making a decision at the start of a drive not to huddle after every play.  The implication is that an OC under Hoke doesn't get to make that call, which may or may not be right, but since we haven't really seen it in 4 years outside of a true 2-minute drill, which often went poorly, I think it's fair to suggest that the OC doesn't have the freedom to make that choice.

I also noticed that after the lead got built to 28 points huddles seemed to be forming slower.  I think that was a big part of the difference between getting to the line with 15 seconds left and getting to the line with 10 seconds left on the playclock.  

markusr2007

September 8th, 2014 at 1:22 PM ^

leaves the game playcalling, strategy and tactics to his OC and then steps over to Nussmeier and says "Hey, make sure the guys huddle up nicely presnap on this next series (ore else)".

No way. 

I mean, it could be true.  I'm not saying it's not. But it would be the dumbest and least-value meddling contribution for a head coach of Brady Hoke's limited offensive proficiency to be making. So I refuse to believe that is what's happening.

I believe the reason the offense is getting slowly to the line is because:

a. the center is not rallying the rest of the line to the LOS immediately,

b. the QB is not leading this urgency to the LOS

c. the OC coach is not kicking asses in for failing to get to the LOS quickly,

d. the Offensive players still have road-game, deer-in-the-headlights about what is going on,

e. all of the above.

 

MI Expat NY

September 8th, 2014 at 1:37 PM ^

How do we know that he IS leaving all playcalling, strategy and tactics to his OC.  Part of his famous reasoning for why he doesn't where a headset is because every call is relayed to him.  Now I don't say that to suggest that he's going to step in on any specific playcall, but he IS still the head coach and cares about what's going on with the offense.  It's not insane to suggest that he's involved to some degree with gameday offensive strategy, in fact it's probably the rational conclusion for any head coach.  And tempo, in terms of no-huddle, rushing to the line and rapid play after play, is argually a strategy decision that affects the whole team.  It only makes sense that a head coach may want to sign off on that.  I'm sure some head coaches don't care one way or the other and expect their defense to respond whenever they take the field again.  But it's reasonable to suppose that Hoke isn't one of those guys.

All those things you stated may be reasons for not getting to the line soon enough on certain plays, but that's not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about no-hudde, 2-minute drill style offense.  It's not a radical idea to use that in a variety of circumstances, such as just the desire to get your stalled offense going.  I don't think we've seen a possession of it in Hoke's 4 years outside of end of half situations.  I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that this is on Hoke.  He may not like it, he may just not dedicate enough time in practice to it.  I don't know, what it is, but it's hard to say it's just a coincidence at this point.  

 

markusr2007

September 8th, 2014 at 2:23 PM ^

Full disclosure: I'm outside. I don't know. I'm speculating here like most dolts. All of this could be completely wrong. This is an internet comment, and I should probably just read like the other 90% and not write anything as Brian suggests.

I view Hoke as a rare breed of HC.  I don't think there are any others like him left in the BIG10 anymore.  I can't remember an HC quite like him except maybe Tim Brewster at Minnesota.  I don't say that to be intentionally contentious.

We have to remember that Hoke has never been a coordinator level football coach. This is Brady Hoke: He is a DL coach (and a damn good one), a great recruiter, and a team figurehead/cheerleader/HC.  That's pretty much it. There's not a massive remainder of cerebral stuff that he brings to the table, in my view.  This is not his fault nor necessarily a bad thing in all situations, except for perhaps the game management consequences which we've been observing since his arrival at UM (clock management, time outs, etc.).

I'm just saying he's not the kind of coach who brings a ton of proficiency and skill about the football game plan and strategy himself. He probably brings a ton of expertise to the defensive line element of the game plan, which I'm sure Mattison loves the most about working with Hoke.   It seems to me that the game plan and strategy has been delegated (with confidence) to the coordinators (Nussmeier and Mattison) by Hoke, much like it was to Stan Parrish at Ball State (a good OC, but a horrible HC) and Borges at SDSU and Michigan.

I do believe Hoke APPROVES the final product (the game plan) after it is drawn up and prepared by his highly skilled, proficient and detail oriented coordinators, but I don't think he's part of nuts and bolts strategy formulation process.  Because its not his forte. So intervening on things like offensive snap tempo, a tactic of an offensive strategy, seems out of place and out of character for Hoke.  I could be wrong.

SKIP TO MY BLUE

September 8th, 2014 at 1:59 PM ^

I watched the game with a formaer Iowa offensive lineman and kept seeing ND players getting free. He did not have a quick answer as to why, but I am curious if it was communication by the line as has been pointed out or if it was technique or simply being over powered by the defense.

Reader71

September 8th, 2014 at 4:15 PM ^

Mostly free unblocked runners. The left side was totally broken as far as communication. I was hollering at the TV and haven't stopped hollering about this yet and maybe never will. We just do not understand pass protection. I hate that I was a lineman. I can't miss this shit even if I want to. The last two years have been a little personal hell.

B-Nut-GoBlue

September 9th, 2014 at 12:43 AM ^

Nice.  I've got a former Iowa lineman friend as well though I don't keep in touch as much as I should.  I became friends through other friends and never wanted to push my football fascination onto him as it's one of those "these guys don't wanna talk about their jobs with their true friends" things so I've never really sat down toe to toe and discussed real football with him.  A bit regretable I admit.

Don

September 8th, 2014 at 12:42 PM ^

How in holy hell is it NOT an offensive coordinator thing? If it's not the OC's job to dictate tempo, whose job is it? The noted offensive guru Brady Hoke? Darrell Funk?

Space Coyote

September 8th, 2014 at 12:46 PM ^

Is that it's a communication issue. Nuss isn't used to being on the sideline, but I don't think that's the issue. I just think getting the plays into the QB and having the whole team get on the same page (they were young last year, now they have a new offense with some new terminology) causes them to be a bit slow out of the huddle. They've been working on installing so much, that it isn't yet flawless. It should improve over the course of the season.

FWIW, I don't think upping the tempo in the 2nd half is what would get Michigan back in the game. Running a no-huddle and quick snapping the ball probably doesn't help them any more.

dragonchild

September 8th, 2014 at 12:54 PM ^

Tempo was frustrating but didn't cost UM the game.  If anything, taking the extra time to make sure everyone was on the right page was more important.  As bad as it was, it could've been even worse if they hurried the first year into a new scheme.

funkywolve

September 8th, 2014 at 1:34 PM ^

that they haven't been working on a 2 minute offense for the end of the half/game?

You're down 28 points in the 3rd quarter and you're showing no sense of urgency.  You're not going to get many more possessions in the game.  If you're still trying to win the game, you need to score and score fairly quickly.

Space Coyote

September 8th, 2014 at 1:36 PM ^

I bet they have a 2-minute offense installed to some degree. But the two-minute offense is likely a small subset of plays, probably with more limited blocking schemes, probably with more limited route combinations designed to take advantage of a certain amount of looks they are likely to see in that situation. It isn't something that is designed to be sustained for more than say, four minutes at most.

Space Coyote

September 8th, 2014 at 1:57 PM ^

Different teams focus on different things, I've said it before. You can focus on implementing an up-tempo offense right away, and teams that make it a priority do that, they practice it, they rep it. But many teams do not. Many teams have a select number of plays that they'll run from that look. They'll reduce motions and formations and those sort of things to simplify communication. A lot of new OCs that don't put an emphasis on tempo immediately won't have more than 4 minutes or so of plays to call for a no-huddle.

Again, this is something that is like 100 on the list of offensive issues that's being brought up because people are suddenly against huddle and many think spread is the way to go.

I'm surprised we haven't gotten a "but USC!" argument yet, because they did, in fact, run a no huddle. And they did so with two FR as OGs. They also likely have the same verbage and communication method for everyone else as they had last year, along with mostly the same exact playbook. They didn't need to learn all that stuff. And yet, at the end of the day, USC scored 13 points and had 291 yards offense and was sacked twice. And the biggest benefit for USC was only the first time they ran it and caught Stanford off guard (because they hadn't run it before), that was also their only TD drive.

Again, tempo is so far down the list of what needs to happen to make this offense work, which is likely why it's not being addressed as a major problem by the staff over repping other things.

Don't get me wrong, I think they'd like to get to the LOS quicker. I think eventually Nuss would like to implement tempo into the offense. Those are benefits. It's just not very high on the priority list.

funkywolve

September 8th, 2014 at 1:54 PM ^

you're getting the plays in quickly and guys to the line of scimmage quickly.  ND scored to go up 28 pts with 3 minutes left in the 3rd quarter.  There's 18 minutes left in the game.  You're only going to get a few more possessions, and going on long time consuming drives isn't in your best interests.  You need to be able to get to the line of scimmage quickly, get the play called and get the ball snapped. 

Ziff72

September 8th, 2014 at 1:04 PM ^

Space what you think of the coverage?   I played CB my whole life and I just don't get what they are doing.  

1. We were up tighter but we never jammed or rerouted the receiver.

2. How do you give up a slant on 3rd and 4th down?  You have to force the fade don't you?

3. Everyone is blaming Hollowell but the play was the same.  Hollowell 8 yards off.  Linebackers get sucked in, guy does slant route, free yards.   I'm not sure what the plan was there but it didn't work.  Too easy and I don't think there was much Hollowell could do.

I love being tight up.  Doesn't mean you have to gamble every play or bump every play but you disrupt the timing and release of the player.  In college where you can touch the guy all the way down field I am flabbergasted at our technique and scheme.

The ease of that slant conversion on Countess still has my blood pressure up.  It's the #1 thing your trying to stop and he still fell for it.  

Your thoughts are appreciated

 

 

 

bronxblue

September 8th, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^

I agree in general.  I had a bigger issue with them running the ball so predictably in the second half.  This team is still learning the offensive playcalling and, especially with a young line and skill players, it probably takes a bit longer to get everyone on the same page.  

Space Coyote

September 8th, 2014 at 1:39 PM ^

I think you have to be very careful about becoming one-dimensional because a) it's a new scheme to these guys; b) it's a scheme that wasn't designed to be so pass-heavy in the first place; c) this is still a young OL and a QB that lets his eyes come down on pressure. With those things, I think you have to make sure you maintain some balance. Now, maybe it was too much focus on "balance", or maybe they thought at that point they might as well try to get game reps of their offense to try to improve on the things they are trying to do.

bronxblue

September 8th, 2014 at 1:58 PM ^

Oh, I absolutely agree.  Honestly, I would have been fine with some draw plays or delayed handoffs, and the errant run here or there to keep the defense guessing.  But I noticed that they ran on first down something like 8 of 10 to start the 2nd half, and to me that was just wasting downs.  This probably goes to Brian's point about Funchess, but a deep completion down the sideline would have given ND some pause.  

Reader71

September 8th, 2014 at 4:20 PM ^

I also agree, because the clock is your enemy. But 2nd and 6 lets you pick any play in your playbook. 2nd and 10 limits your options, and gives the defense the advantage of knowing what your tendencies are in such a situation. Like everything else in playcalling, there are positives and negatives.

JFW

September 9th, 2014 at 12:40 PM ^

about how running up tempo when you are playing badly means you'll play badly faster.

 

I think that there is some argument for up tempo, but its not a panacea; and when your offense is having issues it might make things worse; particularly if your QB is starting to get spooked.

Mpfnfu Ford

September 8th, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^

and you have some of the same issues, then it is time to face the reality that the OCs are doing what their boss wants. Hoke wants a slow tempo. 

Go watch old Arkansas games from Houston Nutt era that Gus Malzahn was the OC for, watch Auburn from the Chizik/Malzahn era, and watch Auburn now that Malzahn is the HC and see the differences of their offenses based on how much freedom Gus had to do what he wants to do. An OC may be in charge of his department, but he answers to a HC.

Brady Hoke is obviously not sitting there during games barking RUN THE BALL 35 TIMES EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT REALLY WORKING or SLOW THE HELL DOWN FOR MY DEFENSE. But it is very, very clear that these messages are being sent throughout the week during the planning stages for games.

This is what Hoke wants. He wants slow tempo and 35-40 runs a game and however the OC wants to do it is his business. And it's failing and has been failing since Denard graduated. 

One Armed Bandit

September 8th, 2014 at 12:42 PM ^

And you won't name captains until before the OSU game, you know there is a definite lack of leadership by the players who are supposed to live and breathe this team. I have no idea if that's on Brady and the staff too. But Brady had the benefit of having guys like Molk and RVB and Mike Martin on the Sugar Bowl team, and none of those guys are here now, or walking through that door anytime soon.

Those guys would have fought anyone in that lockerroom if this had happened. 

Hannibal.

September 8th, 2014 at 12:47 PM ^

If Hoke is going to get fired, then fire him as soon as you know.  There is no sense in waiting.  Fire him and let the coaching search take place in public instead of getting caught up in a situation where you have to go through sneaky back channels while the guy is still publicly your coach.  Recruits will be assuming that he gets fired pretty soon anyways.  When that happens, you've got to make a move.  Let the new guy get announced and start recruiting as soon as possible.  Maybe you can let Nussmeier audition for the job.

Dave Brandon's first "process" taught us, if anything, that you don't let a dead man walking just twist in the wind for a couple of months. 

Steve in PA

September 8th, 2014 at 1:14 PM ^

Be bold because nothing else has worked since the middle of the last decade.  Name Nuss interim and give him the rest of the season to prove his meddle.  The hit to recruiting should be minimal and allowing Hoke to bumble through another season before getting whacked won't be much different.