I Expected This, Just Not So Much Of It Comment Count

Brian

11/2/2013 – Michigan 6, Michigan State 29 – 6-2, 2-2 Big Ten

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Bryan Fuller

You put a brave face on, but some point your jersey is so dirty and your ribs so inflamed that you have to take a moment as you exit the field to breathe. You suck in, and it fucking hurts. You breathe out, and it fucking hurts. Everything fucking hurts.

image

the gif is by ace

You've looked like a coal miner after an explosion for the better part of four quarters and everything you do reminds your over-exerted nerves that in fact they have a job to do even if they really wanted to stop doing it two hours ago, and they raise their hand and say OH BY THE WAY THIS FEELS LIKE DEATH, and at some point you have to obey them. Space is infinite and cold and bereft of hope, and Devin Gardner is in it, waiting to die.

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I didn't need a half-dozen people to tell me that they'd talked to people or had met the guy. I knew it. They all said Devin Gardner was a cocky son-of-a-gun and they all had different opinions about whether this boded well or terribly; none of them needed to tell me. All you need to know is Gardner's sense of humor, how he bobs his head during his starting-lineup intro at Michigan Stadium when he says "I'm a Michigan grad."

I know that bob. I was 19, in Canada, ordering "whiskey on the rocks" with that head-bob. I'd never had anything to drink, ever, and the table exploded with laughter. The waitress checked our IDs, saw that we were all 19 year old Americans, and got me some whiskey on the rocks. I am a cocky son-of-a-gun. I know that head bob.

I do not know what it's like to have dozens of 250-to-300-pound people deposit their helmeted heads into my ribs over the course of a few hours. I played Quiz Bowl in high school. It was slightly less demanding, physically. I have a comeback victory story in the Michigan tournament that I could tell you if you wanted to hear about nerd triumph. But that's not important.

What is: Gardner has had that cockiness literally beaten out of him by this football season. It started with the insane interception against Notre Dame and steadily built through interception after interception; Michigan resorted to running him a lot to actually move the offense forward, and he started having moments where you wondered if he'd get up. He laid on the turf after he took one particular shot to the chest against Minnesota, and it was a surprise when he got up and continued playing football. By Penn State his coaches were so afraid of him that they curled up into a ball in overtime.

In this game Pat Narduzzi paid his five dollars to the carnie and whipped linebackers at him until he cracked. Pat Narduzzi is now the proud owner of a St. Bernard-sized Marvin the Martian. Devin Gardner is no longer bobbing his head, because doing so sends shooting pain down his right side. And his left side. And other sides that don't actually exist but still manage to send shooting pain signals to his brain. Cockiness has left the building.

Michigan fans have endured a similar trial, albeit without the helmets impacting us like bullets on kevlar and with the aid of sweet, sweet beer. Over the course of two months Michigan has gone from a program on a rapid upward sweep towards another Ten Year War, Jabrill Peppers in hand, to a shambles much worse than its 6-2 record and seemingly adrift. There's been no whisper of a program that seems as good as Michigan State is right now for seven years, and counting.

The nadir of nadirs was Taylor Lewan turning into Will Gholston, down to the helmet twist on a prone player. That's where this program is right now: talking tough, failing utterly, and taking out their anger on whoever happens to be around.

Anyone still deploying the "little brother" rhetoric should be hit on the head with an oversized mallet and mailed to Waziristan. That was definitive. We're going to need a bigger countdown clock.

Awards

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Eric Upchurch

 

brady-hoke-epic-double-point_thumb_31Brady Hoke Epic Double Point Of The Week. Dennis Norfleet was pretty good on punt coverage. But no points are awarded.

Honorable mention: LOL.

Epic Double Point Standings.

2.0: Jeremy Gallon (ND, Indiana)

1.0: Devin Gardner (ND), Desmond Morgan(UConn), Devin Funchess(Minnesota), Frank Clark(PSU)

0.5: Cam Gordon (CMU), Brennen Beyer (CMU)

Brady Hoke Epic Double Fist-Pump Of The Week. The clock expires to end the game.

Honorable mention: Raymon Taylor's interception gives Michigan a sliver of hope; Michigan completes some passes early, moving the ball-type object some distance-type measures.

Epic Double Fist-Pumps Past.

8/31/2013: Dymonte Thomas introduces himself by blocking a punt.

9/7/2013: Jeremy Gallon spins through four Notre Dame defenders for a 61-yard touchdown.

9/14/2013: Michigan does not lose to Akron. Thanks, Thomas Gordon.

9/21/2013: Desmond Morgan's leaping one-handed spear INT saves Michigan's bacon against UConn.

10/5/2013: Fitzgerald Toussaint runs for ten yards, gets touchdown rather easily.

10/12/2013: Devin Funchess shoots up the middle of the field to catch a 40 yard touchdown, staking Michigan to a ten-point lead they wouldn't relinquish. (Right?)

10/19/2013: Thomas Gordon picks off an Indiana pass to end the Hoosiers' last drive that could have taken the lead.

11/2/2013: Clock expires.

[After THE JUMP: brimstone.]

Offense

The pile. Brady Hoke has coached 34 games at Michigan. 27 of these have been against opponents from major conferences or Notre Dame. In eight of these games, Michigan has failed to acquire 300 yards of offense. The list:

  1. 2011 Michigan State: L 28-14
  2. 2012 Sugar Bowl: W 23-20 (OT)
  3. 2012 Alabama: L 41-14
  4. 2012 Notre Dame: L 13-6
  5. 2012 Nebraska: L 23-9
  6. 2012 Ohio State: L 26-21
  7. 2013 UConn: W 28-24
  8. 2013 MSU: L 29-6

I would like to add the 2011 Iowa game, in which Michigan had 166 yards of offense before they ended up down two scores in the fourth and went hurry up shotgun passing, to the pile. That makes it an even third of games against real opponents (or UConn) in which Michigan has been utterly incompetent in. The disturbing thing is that they are not getting less frequent as the years progress. There were 3 in 2011, four in 2012, and three and counting in 2013, one of which was against UConn.

Everyone has a plan until they get disemboweled and look down at their entrails burning. As for what the gameplan: yeah, that is what they had to attempt. Toussaint got eight carries, and that was about the right number of carries. Michigan tried to go deep to Chesson, Funchess, and Gallon because that was what they had to do to move the ball.

Good prepared teams beat Borges. That one drive where Michigan State snuffed out a throwback screen, was all over all-hitches, and ate an inverted veer alive was ballgame before it was officially ballgame. Michigan had a bye week and Narduzzi/Dantonio still ate Borges's lunch. The throwback screen was especially illuminating, as Toussaint's fake block attempt was read all the way by three(!!!) Michigan State defenders, forcing Gardner to start running around as he does.

The sack of Gardner after the Taylor interception was a perfect example. It's second and fifteen, and this is what Michigan does:

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note Bullough screaming up the pocket in the dead center without a blocker

Play action on which Gardner turns his back to everybody and Bullough rips up the pocket unblocked, leaving Toussaint one on one with the guy in no position to deal with him. Glasgow and Bosch both get owned on other blocks so when Gardner evades the first two attempts to tackle him he still gets sacked. Yes, OL disaster is disastrous; this was reminiscent of watching T'eo in last year's ND game on a similar budding disaster on play action. MSU had this dead to rights presnap, probably because Funchess on the LOS is a big flag waving "pass" and, oh, right, it's second and fifteen.

This continues a pattern: Michigan puts something nonsensical on tape one week against a weak defense, finds success with it, and then runs the same thing at a more competent outfit, which destroys it. Minnesota tackle over turned into PSU tackle over. Indiana twins play action that is never going to be a run turns into the above frame. MSU had a few issues, and then adjusted, and it was over.

It looked like Michigan State was the team that had a bye.

Offensive line debacles. Well, it's a tire fire. I provide this valuable analysis to you, person who cannot see with his own eyes that it is a tire fire. Everyone wants to fire Funk, and I guess okay you can want that and it's not insane. It's not happening, though. I bet you a dollar. You are left to hope that next year there will be more guys ready and some of them get a lot better at football.

Keep in mind that Funk is not only working with mostly freshmen and has two walk-ons competing seriously, or at least did until Burzynski tore his ACL, but has had to deal with GERG-RR level whiplash. Michigan wanted to run the stretch this year after not running the stretch at all the last two years, and then they wasted three weeks of practice screwing around with tackle over, and they're still doing that. Michigan's blitz pickups were completely broken in this game. While that may be because most of the guys making the pickups are young, flipping guys from one position to the other and constantly moving them not only week to week but during the damn game seems like a recipe for disaster no matter who the OL coach is. Erik Magnuson is a redshirt freshman already moved midseason to guard, and now sometimes he's a tackle with another tackle next to him, and well no shit sometimes those guys forget where they are.

We always hear about how unit chemistry is such a big deal with OL. Would Michigan's actions be any different if they were deliberately trying to destroy it?

I will admit that part of this comes from seeing Funk at a coaches clinic and being impressed by his level of detail, ability to answer questions cogently, and distinct lack of exasperated swearing. That latter separates him from every other offensive line coach in history. I feel that he is not bad at his job for squishy reasons.

Toussaint can't block. I mean no offense to Vincent Smith when I  say this, but I didn't expect that I'd be missing him deeply halfway through this year. I am, because Smith was a great pass blocker and Toussaint is at least below average and probably terrible. Derrick Green still doesn't know what he's doing in that department either and apparently no one else on the team is worth trying as a third down back, so we're stuck with Toussaint. MSU attacked that over and over, finding success.

NOBODY CAN BLOCK. NOBODY

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Eric Upchurch

Funchess still developing, still intimidating. He did not come down with a couple of balls that were something less than flat drops but were catches you want him to make; he came down with a couple others and wasn't targeted enough because Gardner was busy dodging missiles in the pocket. When he was targeted, he looked pretty good, especially on the post above that Gardner just missed. He sold a fade route to Waynes, chucked him outside once he'd started to turn upfield, and got a good couple yards of separation on what would have been a pretty badass play if Gardner just could have gotten it there.

I would like it if Michigan stopped pretending he was a tight end at all, though.

I have no comment on bubble screen. At this point talking about it is counterproductive. It is there sometimes and not there other times. It is a way to get yards that is pretty easy. I like easy yards. Any yards, really.

Defense

Par for the course. You thought "ballgame" when Michigan acquired –21 yards in the aftermath of the Raymon Taylor interception, and the defense apparently had similar thoughts.

10 DRIVES BEFORE –21 YARDS AFTER INT: 237 yards, INT, TD, 3 FG drives, one 26 yards, one fluky fullback throwback thing.

2 DRIVES AFTER INT: 56 yard TD drive, 97 yard TD drive.

That was a textbook "defense crumbles late in the face of utter offensive ineptitude" game. Five of those ten drives faced started at about midfield, and Michigan gave up three points on them. The opening field goal drive was one fluke cross-field throw to a fullback and then a three-and-out. MSU is a bad offense that is no longer a horrible offense; Michigan has a B defense. That's about what you would expect.

The late collapse sucks, sure, but I was expecting it. When you get in one of these games where the offense is totally incompetent but the defense is holding you in it, the moment where the offense blows the last best chance to get back in it is often followed by the defense giving up the ghost.

Fullback throwback. I don't even know man. I've never seen anything like that, OSU twitter blew up with jokes about how a Bollman offense is always at its best when it's pulling butt out of its butt, and the announcers were equally flabbergasted. It's just one of those things that can happen to anyone when the opposing quarterback is flushed to the left and decides to throw it—without even looking first—back to a fullback who cut a defensive end and then leaked out into the flat. Brilliant because it worked; a total fluke.

Crossing routes. Man does MSU love them some crossing routes short of the sticks on third down. This would cause me to set my hair on fire, except MSU fans probably enjoy punting at this point. That puts the defense on the field again. I remember that 1997 feeling.

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This was the result of rushing three: MSU dropping passes. [Fuller]

Rushing three on third and long. Like everyone else, this was my main complaint. I don't actually mind it so much when Michigan shows pressure and then backs out, but when they go nickel and don't even threaten with the linebackers and then rush three guys who all get doubled, argh argh argh. MSU whiffed on a couple of big plays; that has nothing to do with how Michigan executed.

At least Mattison adjusted, sending a variety of zone blitzes at Cook later, which he didn't do too well with. The general lack of mean okie blitzes and passivity of this year's defense is pretty odd given that they do pretty well when they load up on opponents. Is it just not having Kovacs around anymore? Are we imagining it? I don't know.

Jourdan Lewis curse watch. Connor Cook can't hit the broadside of a barn until a third and fifteen conversion that happens to be an NFL throw against a guy Jourdan Lewis is in the back pocket of. Apologize to the gypsy, Jourdan. I know it's not rational; just do it.

Lewis did have the recovery speed to get in on that fade to Fowler that ended up incomplete after getting burned, at least.

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I think he will be good once he APOLOGIZES TO THE GYPSY PLEASE.

(Stribling didn't appear to get any snaps, it was all Lewis.)

Raymon Taylor are you actually good watch. Well… I don't know man. On the one hand, another interception that was pretty badass. That's huge. On the other, led the team in tackles with 12, which is always a sign they're picking on you as a cornerback. I lean towards Taylor being pretty good when not getting tempoed.

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Fuller

Henry had a good day, probably. Judgment always reserved for linemen, but Henry kept popping up in spots after beating down-blocks and seemed to make a real impact. He has been coming on this year; next year he's probably your starting three-tech and an upgrade on Black on the ground. Pass rush is still pending.

The solution to the Jake Ryan thing. Michigan said screw it and played Brennen Beyer at SDE much of the day.

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Fuller

This, too, seemed to work out okay. MSU got two long runs, one on a reverse, the other that 40 yarder that effectively ended the game. Neither of those seemed to be Beyer's issue. Before the late collapse MSU was trundling along at two yards a carry.

Miscellaneous

As a feminist. I've always wanted to start as sentence "as a feminist." As a feminist, I find "little sister" chants disappointing. Tut tut. Tut tut tut tut. Also Blurred Lines enrages me. I am done being a feminist now. I find Blurred Lines annoying for having hashtags in the video again.

FIRE EVERYTHING, says the internet. Judging from boards around the internet, the aftermath of this game has started fire coach X talk in earnest. That is not happening. There's about a 90% chance this staff stays intact going into next year, for many reasons. Some of them are good—transition costs suck, wouldn't Jake Fisher be nice to have, recruiting is going very well, especially on the OL—and some are not so good, but it's not happening so it's pointless to talk about.

Next year is an obvious improve-or-die season, and it features road games against MSU, OSU, and Notre Dame. Uh.

Here

Best And Worst has bests, apparently, but I think we'll go with a worst here.

Worst:  Downs and Distances

Here are some downs and distances from this game:

3rd and 20

4th and 21

3rd and 18

4th and 24

2nd and 30

3rd and 29

4th and 48

3rd and 24

They had three drives of more than 50 yards, two of which ended in FGs and the third in Gardner’s interception.  For every other drive combined, UM ended with –7(!!!)yards of total offense.  That’s right; with two weeks of preparation and countless promises to adapt, UM produced the worst offensive performance any of us will probably ever see out of the Wolverines.  They punted or turned the ball over on downs with 4 or fewer plays 8 times this game.  After Raymon Taylor’s interception of Cook late in the 3rd quarter, UM’s subsequent drive resulted in –21 yards of offense and, according to ESPN’s official boxscore, was the end of the game despite there being a whole quarter to go.  And honestly, I don’t think that was a misprint.

Inside The Boxscore is a doozy, obviously:

Burst of Impetus

* For Michigan, there was one glimmer of hope. With Michigan trailing by 10 late in the 3rd quarter, Raymon Taylor intercepted a pass and returned it 17 yards to State's 41. The boxscore lists this as the "H41." This could refer to the "Home" team, but I'm going to call it the "hated one's" 41. This was our best starting field position by 24 yards. It's hard to score against the nation's top ranked defense or thereabouts, when you are always facing a long field. Five of our 13 positions started inside our 20, and all but one started from no better than our 35. Why is this important? Well, if you throw a 58 yard bomb to Chesson, you'd like to think that a TD might result, but not if you're starting well inside your own half of the field. After Taylor's INT, the next three plays went for -5, -9, and -7 yards. Impetus bursted.

Elsewhere

I will throw up game reactions later in a UV. It will not surprise you to hear that I have not ventured other places on the internet much yet.

Comments

PurpleStuff

November 4th, 2013 at 1:44 PM ^

People were saying the same things about the 2012 class up front.  Remember how Kalis and Bryant should have been starting last year?  No one is talking about the extra size and mean streak they bring to the table any more.  And guys like Green/Smith were going to grab the reins at RB this year?  You're still assuming (like we all have been) that stars will turn into a dream team automatically, and we've seen clearly that it's far from happening here. 

How good would this team be if we had just managed to recruit two not horrendous o-line starters in 2012 and/or 2011 (something Rodriguez did right out of the box with Omameh and Lewan) and maybe found a second option at RB who could break 3.5 ypc?  Or maybe a pass rusher half as good as Leonard Williams at USC (13 sacks midway through his true sophomore season)?  We haven't been getting those kinds of guys, no matter what Rivals says.

shorts

November 4th, 2013 at 1:54 PM ^

I replied to a similar post above, and I think it bears repeating here: Unless we are just the unluckiest recruiters and getting ALL OF THE BUSTS, I think the possibility has to be considered that we are getting that level of talent and just not developing it, especially on offense (although I still think it's too early to write off Green since we have no interior blocking and have had to resort to a pass-happy offense that obviously fits Toussaint better).

umchicago

November 4th, 2013 at 2:37 PM ^

i think he may be a huge key.  iirc, he is the son of a coach.  i'm guessing he knows his craft at center; probably just needs to add some strength.  if he can step in and be a competent C, that means glasgow can shift back to guard.  at a minimum, that will give us depth and experience on the interior...now just the tackle spots...

ryebreadboy

November 4th, 2013 at 1:54 PM ^

Seriously though, at what point do these high-level recruits start decommitting due to (in my mind, legitimate) concerns about poor player development and coaching? This team is a flaming pile of garbage on the field. If you're Jabrill Peppers, Da'Shawn Hand, or Damien Harris, wouldn't you rather play somewhere you have a chance of winning?

BlowGoo

November 4th, 2013 at 1:29 PM ^

Personally, I know it's bad for me when I get a post deleted notice from mgoblog with a 200 point deduction...

... and just don't care.  Sigh.  I hate being pummeled into apathy.

 

Well, at least I'm not apathetic enough to not write this.  

 

I'm just desperately hoping SOMEONE out there writes something that gives me hope that we're in year three of a four year plan.  But I ain't seeing it.

jsquigg

November 4th, 2013 at 1:30 PM ^

I know nothing of technique but I think I know why we are struggling on the line and on offense:

1) The coaches are trying to do too many complex things, and when those don't work they try other complex things.  Rather than establishing a simple run play as a base and teach it year after year, it seems these coaches "hop around" too much.  We know the Rodriguez defense was inept, but on offense they practiced the same base plays and techniques and got better at it.  On offense, Michigan just doesn't know what it is right now, and I would have rather had the coaches struggle like this in their first year if it meant we could run power coherently this year.

2) The O-Line shuffling has been detrimental.  Not only do they keep shuffling players, because the scheme seems to change every two or three weeks it seems like the players who would do better in the most recent scheme are on the bench while the players who could run the initial scheme are struggling with this one.  The coaches are compounding their mistakes by not giving the starters at the beginning of the year a chance to run the adjusted offense.

3) Quite frankly the play calling has been bad in the worst situations and in the biggest games.  The coaches talk about execution, but the choices they make hinder that execution.  I don't think last Saturday was the worst, but there were still moments in that game and the line situation leading into the game (which is on the coaches) made anything they were going to try that much more difficult.

I am disappointed as arfe many others.  I don't see the offense getting better, because we don't have an identity.  The coaches talk about running power but abandon it often, and instead of simplifying things or stripping things down, they have tried to be everything which has in turn made them good at almost nothing.  I think it was one of Borges' early pressers in which he said he tried not to fit into any scheme, because if you run a particular offense than there is a blueprint for beating that offense.  While that sentiment is admirable to reach for, I think the complications of his brand of "shapeless" offense have had the opposite effect. 

BlueMan80

November 4th, 2013 at 1:36 PM ^

because a year of Hoke on the hot seat won't help recruiting and another coaching transition will be another step back, reshuffle, and hope for the best in 3 years again.  Schools that change coaches frequently seldom rise to the top.

DelhiGoBlue

November 4th, 2013 at 5:24 PM ^

During his 2nd year as HC of Oklahoma, led his relatively young team to the BCS championship.  Not a single lineman on that team, from either side of the ball, ever played in the NFL.  In fact the first lineman from the Bob Stoops era that would go on to the NFL is DE Jimmy Wilkerson, and he was a freshman LB in 2000.

fatbastard

November 4th, 2013 at 10:59 PM ^

Oklahoma's offensive line constisted of 6 individuals on the stats sheet I found.   I couldn't find the mintes played, but here's the makeup of the starters, including the 6th. 

Bubba Burcham*   OL  
19 Howard Duncan*   OL  
20 Scott Kempenich*   OL  
21 Frank Romero*   OL  
22 Mike Skinner*   OL  
23 Al Baysinger

I cross referenced that with a site showing their ages:  Sr, Jr. Sr, Jr. So. Sr.  So there's that, I guess to show how to win with a young offensive line. 

BlueMan80

November 4th, 2013 at 5:48 PM ^

The new staff will have new ways to practice, new playbooks, new everything, and will most likely be looking for "their kind of players for their system" in recruiting.  Once everything is new again, it takes time to learn, so transitions are rarely seamless and are usually messy for a few years.

Urbz inherited a team that ran an offense similar to his style and he retained the DC (who was the head coach in 2011) and pretty much left that side of the ball alone.  Hoke was hired to retrench on both sides of the line of scrimmage and had a tire fire of a defense to rebuild.  As for the offense, this is really the first year of what Hoke/Borges would like to do and this is certainly a delayed but messy transition.  Will this system work in the long run, not sure, but it's clear they need some time.

reshp1

November 4th, 2013 at 1:38 PM ^

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, but 2 years in a row the weather has screwed us in EL. I'm not saying it was a deciding factor, but it was a big one IMO. Our foil to hyper aggressive blitzing since Denard started was a mobile QB that can make a guy miss and break contain. I think that made last year's OL look better than they were at pass pro, and the same for the ND game.

Saturday, the field was so mushy Gardner looked like he was running in quicksand. The blitzs could really pin their ears back and come after him like he was an immobile guy without fear of him scrambling.

reshp1

November 4th, 2013 at 3:43 PM ^

Did you even read the post? The weather affected us worse because it took away our only strength on offense, a mobile quarterback. The OL can't run block or pass block, so take away the scramble and we're left with the shit show we saw. MSU has a functional OL that can pass pro and grind out a few yards on the ground too, so they are less suceptible to the blitz even if their QB can't run in the muck (or at all).

UMFan95

November 4th, 2013 at 2:56 PM ^

People just want to defend Hoke and this coaching staff blindly.  This is one of the main reasons in my opinion why this program is in it current shape.  Regional at best program and the laughing stock of the entire country, kinda like what ND use to be.  Only in our minds do we think we are a powerhouse

maznblu

November 4th, 2013 at 3:08 PM ^

It can't affect the outcome of the game if the two teams playing are the exact same team.  Then the effect of the weather is equal.

But teams are different; they have different strengths and weaknesses.  I don't think it's a stretch to think that a team that can't run the football would perform better in dry and warm conditions.

Is it the only factor?  No.  Better teams still win in "poor" conditions.

Can it be a factor?  I think so. 

Indiana Blue

November 4th, 2013 at 1:40 PM ^

Yeah this was as BAD as I hope (HOPE) it gets.  

2 comments -  1) why doesn't everyone understand that MSU's 1st play was a trick play.  No way would a fullback simply wander 30 yeards from the LOS and then have the QB fire a strike to him?  It wasn't luck, it was a called play and they caught us unprepared.   2)  let's have the Oline practice nothing but blitz pickups.  Our passing game is the ONLY chance this team has to win 3 of the last 4.  We're not going to have a running back have a significant contribution the remainder of this year ... so break out the bubble screens and pass protection practices!

Go Blue!

AC1997

November 4th, 2013 at 1:42 PM ^

I didn't realize how bad the season is next year for road games.  We're looking at 2015 before we compete it seems.  I say that also because it is clear that our problem on both sides of the ball is in the trenches.  While experience and new faces will certainly bring the promise of hope, young players rarely contribute on either line early in their career.  

So tell me how to be optimistic next year in the trenches when this is happening:

  • Offense - We lose both tackles, play four of the guys currently struggling this year with one of them moving outside, and bring in someone to play the other tackle position who currently isn't good enough to help this group.  It is good that there are a lot of talented young guys to pick from.....but there is little evidence that anyone on the roster will make a significant leap next season.  
  • Defense - We lose Washington and Black, probably the two most productive guys.  Pipkins injury might mean he loses the entire season, or at least isn't as effective if he can play.  So we'll have SDE and WDE with the same unproductive rotations that we have this year and Willie Henry to play one of the two interior slots.  If Henry starts at DT as Brian suggests, who starts at NT if Pipkins isn't healthy?  Expecting Poggi, Hurst, Mone, or some other new guy to be great seems far fetched.  Maybe Taco can move to SDE and one of the SDE guys moves to 3T while Henry plays NT?  

As for coaching changes, I think we have 4 games to determine whether changes will be made or not.  If we finish 3-1 and thus 9-3 then nothing changes.  If we go 1-3 and finish 7-5 again?  I think SOMETHING would have to change.  I don't think Brandon is a patient person and the fan discomfort is going to grow to a point where someone will need to be the fall guy.  

But regardless, we're looking at 2015 (with a nice schedule to lower the degree of difficulty) to be the year the OL/DL mature and we hope Shane Morris or someone else is a capable gun slinger.  

Swayze Howell Sheen

November 4th, 2013 at 1:44 PM ^

whoever posted that quote from Scout has ruined my day. Particularly this:

we went to the 50 yard line and watch Michigan, those coaches had those boys doing basic club and rip moves like high school. State was teaching the d-line how to rotate the shoulders of the o-line so that they can allow the pressure to get through. 

wow.

 

Space Coyote

November 4th, 2013 at 2:18 PM ^

One is about disengaging, the other is about helping the blitz. Both are things that I've worked on extensively as a HS DL coach. I, also, have never done shoulder turn drills in warm-ups. I would take very little of "what the coaches are coaching" out of the fundamentals they are going over in their warm-ups.

This is pretty much equivalent to saying "I saw Michigan QBs doing warm-ups throwing from their knees, as if they were prepared to be sacked all night, while MSU's QBs were getting snaps and throwing slant routes". Or "I saw one team doing the weave for their first basketball warm-up, while the other did one-on-one shadowing the ball drills."

Swayze Howell Sheen

November 4th, 2013 at 2:26 PM ^

SC - I dig what you're trying to do, and I even understand why: you think you have the knowledge here, compared to most of us. Perhaps you even do. After all, you've coached HS DL.

And let's not worry too much about the quote: after all, who said it? 

The thing I'm wondering: if this team continues to perform poorly, this year, next year, etc., what am I to think of your comments then? That you still know the coaches here are really terrific, but some other thing prevented the team from winning? 

It seems pretty clear to me that MSU is a better coached team than UM. The game just made it seem not even that close, which is depressing. But perhaps you know better.

 

umchicago

November 4th, 2013 at 2:46 PM ^

your last paragraph is accurate the past few years.  but i agree with SC, that who cares about warmups?  i have seen punters kicking the ball through the endzone before.  i'm sure they are just trying to boot to their max.  they really aren't looking to punt thru the endzone during the game.

maznblu

November 4th, 2013 at 3:13 PM ^

After last year's game, did you also think MSU was the better coached team?

I'm not sayng this to be a jerk, but instead trying to suggest that after we see the results of a game, we then reinterpret what are often ambiguous things.

I would guess that if Michigan had won, they would have praised Michigan's coaches for not overloading their players during warmups, while MSU's coaches were confusing their players, or something like that.

Holmdel

November 4th, 2013 at 1:49 PM ^

I'm not ready to jump to the conclusion that an OC with two weeks with an inexperienced OL ought to be expected to have success against the nation's top defense.  I don't see how two weeks plus sketchy offense is expected to be better than best defense at home with only one week to prepare.  

UMFan95

November 4th, 2013 at 1:50 PM ^

I also think Hoke will not make any changes.  But i dont see the team improving next year either.  How many 5 star recruits do we have on the roster, and how many of them are meeting their expectation.  It cant be on the players alone, there must be something wrong wtih the way they are coached.  Ole miss is playing tons of freshmens in the SEC and they dont look as bad as we do.  So based on that how can i have any faith in this staff that next year will be any different than this year, or that peppers will save us. No one that is coming next year will save us because this coaching staff doesn't know how to properly develop them and / or dont know how to put a game plan to give them a chance to win.  Gardner jersey looking like that.  This should be a big sign to DB that there is a major flaw in this coaching staff starting with Hoke.  If DB is following the bullshit process he told us about few years back, there will be some consequuence to this season as whole.  But like i said it is probably ps and nothing will happen.

johnvand

November 4th, 2013 at 1:54 PM ^

How we allowed MSU and OSU to be on the road in the same year when the B1G derped it's way into adding Maryland and Rutgers is beyond me.

Have we benefitted at all from the conference expanding?  Other than needing to construct a larger Money Bin to go swimming around in?

I think JUB is right, the 100,000+ attendance streak is dying next season with that craptastic home slate.

davidhm

November 4th, 2013 at 2:01 PM ^

... it may not be Borges, but I whole-heartedly believe that not only is it needed (and no, I don't enjoy firing people or seeing people lose their jobs) it's also warranted.  If Dave Brandon was willing to break off Rich Rod after his third year, then I believe he has to sit Hoke down and ask him what changes are being made for the 2014 season to take this team to the next level.  

The program will more than likely be 4-5 against its rivals in Hokes first three years. (Yes, assuming a loss on Nov 30) Add in 27 for 27 yds at PSU, inability to win big games on the road, and -49 yards at MSU and the script all but calls for a sacrifical lamb.  Most agreed that Rich Rod probably could have saved his job if he had only gotten a quality Defensive Coordinator/Not pressed for 3-3-5.  I don't think Hoke wants the seat to get warm in 2014 due to Offensive ineptitude.   And Dave Brandon should  be the one to turn up the heat on HOke and not the fans or media.

maznblu

November 4th, 2013 at 3:28 PM ^

You may be right that an assistant may get a symbolic axe.

But Hoke himself will be safe and should still be given power over his program in my opinion.

As painful as it has been to watch this year's team, didn't Coach Rodriguez have the worst 3-year record ever for a Michigan coach?  I think that record along with the lack of fit for the culture of Michigan athletics is a bad enough combination to consider termination.

Coach Hoke's record is nowhere near the worst 3-year record.  In fact, it is a winning record overall (and yes, I understand that that is not enough - fergodsakes).  Additionally, he is a perfect fit for the culture of Michigan athletics.

Thus, in my opinion, there is no chance (and no reason) to consider termination yet.  He'll get at least two more years.

One last thing: I also think it's important to remember how hard it is to find good coaches who are available and willing to come.  Going into the Rodriguez hire, and the Hoke hire, we thought everyone would drop whatever they were doing to come to Michigan.  That didn't happen.  If we were to risk going through another transition (which may have as much to do with the current state of the program as anything), you better have the perfect replacement lined up.

Disclaimer:  I really like Hoke as our coach.  Like John Beilein, I love his personality and style.  He is concerned with his job as a developer of young men.  In fact, John Wooden had the same philosophy that you first teach your players to be good men.  That will then lead to more wins.  So I am obviously seeing things from a perspective where Hoke isn't such a terrible coach.

CalifExile

November 4th, 2013 at 5:52 PM ^

Rodriguez inherited a smoking crater. No QB, 2 decent but constantly injured RBs, on the OL: Steve Schilling (after Boren left). On defense the starters on DL and DB were good but they were mostly gone after one year and there was no depth. Basically nothing at LB.

The team improved every year, especially after he finally got a QB with a full year of experience. The team that went 11-2 was RR's team.

Under Hoke the team is floundering. It appears to be getting worse each year. Not just losing more but actually regressing in performance.

I do agree with your final point: it will be very difficult to find a good replacement after the way they abused RR - waiting to fire him until until it was too late to find another job, refusing to give him a bowl ring. Follow that with firing someone from inside the family and it's hard to imagine many top coaches who aren't desparate wanting to come to Michigan.

DelhiGoBlue

November 4th, 2013 at 6:28 PM ^

to RR for 2011, because those were RR (and Carr) players, you have to credit him for 2012 and 2013 because those years include, or not, the players he also recruited.  So, where are the Juniors and Seniors in starting positions on the OL and DL?  Why is the defensive backfield bereft of RR recruit depth?  There is senior Fitzgerald Toussaint and then true Freshman Derrick Green....were are the rest of the stellar RBs from the RR era?

Granted Hoke's teams have regressed since his first in 2011, but then if RR inherited a smoking crater, it would seem BH inherited a black hole.

CalifExile

November 4th, 2013 at 7:09 PM ^

Brandon screwed up recruiting in 2011 by stringing out the firing of RR. That's why Brian references Jake Fisher in his column. Fisher commited to RR and then decommitted after the firing. As did Dee Hart and Kris Frost. In addition several other players didn't consider M because of Brandon's behavior. A clear, if somewhat off topic (he's a DL) example, is Anthony Zettel. Although it should be recognized that signing Zettel would have allowed Q Washington to remain on offense.

RR and Greg Frey were good at developing OL talent. I believe that they, along with Barwis, would have had Jack Miller ready to go this year. Obviously there is no way to determine that now. If so, an OL of Lewan, Schofield, Miller, Fisher and Q Washington looks pretty good. We also don't know who RR would have recruited the last couple of years. Projection quickly falls apart as variables increase to infinity.

You have hit on an area where RR really did deserve criticism: DL recruiting. As far as the other areas, RR was scrambling to fill too many holes from the beginning. That's part of the reason he should have been given the full 6 years on his contract to stabilize and develop the team.

fatbastard

November 4th, 2013 at 10:37 PM ^

Unfortunately for the University, RR could not be given any more time to dismantle the football program.  C'mon.  It is simply impossible to say on the one hand that Carr left the cupboard bear (which is not as true as many here seem to believe) and on the other not damn RR for the extraordinary incompetence in recruiting he showed throughout his time here.   Depth, depth depth . . . there is none!

maznblu

November 4th, 2013 at 8:12 PM ^

I don't begrudge you your viewpoints.  They are reasonable in my opinion.  There are lots of good arguments for why Rodriguez should have been given more time.

The only thing I would suggest is to not give the direction of the program too much weight.  Rodriguez ended his first year at 3-7.  Improving is really the only direction you can go in most cases.  He then went 5-7 and 7-6.  There was still lots of room for improvement.

Hoke, on the other hand, started 11-2.  It's hard to improve from there.  Yes, the record is worse, but much of what is happening can be explained by regression to the mean in both cases.

And again, as a Hoke apologist, I still find myself focusing on the fact that unless Hoke loses every remaining game, he still has a record in his worst year so far that is no worse that Rodriguez. 

Obviously it isn't all about Win-Loss records.  There are a lot of other important factors to consider.  And I probably will continue to point out the ones that support my point of view. :-)

fatbastard

November 4th, 2013 at 10:33 PM ^

RR inherited a better team thatn Hoke did.   Fact.  And the fact that you perceive, perhaps correctly, a downward trend this year has everything to do with the absolute crater than he left.  So stop with the baseless commentary.  You are plain, flat wrong, and it's not about firing someone becuase we have freshman playing across the middle of the offensive line.

macdaddy

November 4th, 2013 at 2:01 PM ^

It's seeping through his writing. Understandable of course. The thought of no turnover in the coaching staff is frustrating. Little to be cheery about right now.

bluewoody

November 4th, 2013 at 2:01 PM ^

So is this what purgatory is supposed to feel like? I feel like I am lowering my head for my thirst to be quenched only to have the glass get pulled away. I feel like this program has been stuck since Lloyd's last Capital One bowl game. Just no improvement, spinning wheels, stuck in mediocrity.