Hoops Mailbag: WTF Edition Comment Count

Ace


[Bryan Fuller/MGoBlog]

I guess we should discuss that. The other thing, too. Let's open the floor for questions.

I'm sensing some despair. Does anyone have a more specific question?

Ah, so. Let's try this again after the jump.

[JUMP, if you dare.]

A LACK OF ATHLETICISM

I am sure that most of our fans are frustrated after the last two games.  I know that I am.  Can you speak to how we missed on all of our top targets in the last few recruiting classes?  The championship game and Elite 8 teams were made up of 3 classes where we hit on elite talent (i.e. McGary/Irvin) or the lower ranked members progressed past where they were ranked (Burke/Stauskas).  The last few classes we have struggled to close on our main targets.  Has it just been bad luck or is there something else that Beilein focuses on that limits our effectiveness to get talent? Or is it as simple as the development of Doyle/Chatman/Walton Jr/Dawkins hasn't been as good as the development of Burke/GRIII/Stauskas/Hardaway Jr were?  
 

Thanks for what you guys do,

Go Blue in Iowa. 

I'm going to twist this question into something I'd like to address after the last couple games, since John Beilein's misses on the recruiting trail—especially the Tyus Battle fiasco—have been much-discussed around these parts.

Beilein has had remarkable success both before and after arriving at Michigan by recruiting players to his system, which narrows the field of potential players to bring into the program. I have zero issue with that—if anything, Beilein's biggest recruiting misses have come when he took higher-rated players who didn't quite seem to fit his coaching style (Carlton Brundidge and Kameron Chatman come to mind).

Scoring is tough when you can't generate a clean look at the rim. [Upchurch]

In getting Tim Hardaway Jr., Trey Burke, Glenn Robinson III, Nik Stauskas, Mitch McGary, and Caris LeVert over the span of three classes, though, Beilein didn't just bring in system guys—he brought in system guys with NBA-level athleticism (Hardaway, GRIII, LeVert) and/or good college athletes whose skill level more than overcame certain athletic deficiencies (Burke, Stauskas). Those players not only maximized what could be done in Beilein's offensive system; they were big and athletic enough that when put in a lineup with a mean-ass upperclassman center like Jordan Morgan, they could play decent (not great, but decent) defense.

That athleticism is simply lacking on this current squad. Zak Irvin and Derrick Walton are fine players, but neither has proven they can consistently beat athletic defenders off the dribble—something Burke and Stauskas did with regularity. Burke, Stauskas, Hardaway, and GRIII could all finish at the rim in traffic; Michigan doesn't have that guy right now, let alone four of them. It's bogging down the offense, and I probably don't need to mention how much it shows up on defense, too. The best athlete on this team, Aubrey Dawkins, has yet to add the skill and basketball acumen necessary to take full advantage of his natural ability. I don't think that's a coaching issue—this staff's track record of development is difficult to dispute—but it stands out this year because this team has fewer great athletes than they did in the recent past.

Beilein has had some bad luck on the recruiting trail; he also forces himself to hit at a higher rate on the recruiting trail by looking for a specific type of player and person. He values certain skills very highly—outside shooting is an obvious example—but I think he's either undervalued pure athleticism of late or he's missed on the targets who best combine system fit and that level of athleticism required to hang with the best teams on both ends of the floor.

DUNCAN'S SLUMP

I believe a couple factors are at play here, but first we should define "slump": while Robinson isn't shooting nearly as well as he did in non-conference play, he's still making 35% of his threes in 11 Big Ten games on a high volume of attempts. This isn't exactly an early-season Zak Irvin situation; Robinson is top-20 in conference-only eFG% among B1G players.

Still, it's apparent Michigan has had more trouble freeing him up for decent looks. Part of that is going against better defenses. Part of that is fatigue—Robinson looked a step slow against MSU trying to break free from defenders off the ball, and the effort it's taking just to get open is likely affecting his shot once he manages to get one off.

The fix involves more than just Robinson; in fact, I don't think it involves Robinson much at all. He thrives when the other guards/wings are getting into the paint and drawing defenders away from the arc; Michigan hasn't been able to get that going of late, so they're trying to get Robinson the ball by having him run all over the place instead of spotting up for catch-and-shoot jumpers after drives by Irvin or Walton (or, when healthy, LeVert). If the main ballhandlers get going again, Robinson should, too.

I don't see this as much of a solution. Dawkins may be the worst defender on this team, which is really saying something. He wasn't effective against Indiana and almost all his production against MSU came after the game was well in hand. He doesn't have Robinson's passing ability and for all his athleticism their rebounding numbers are similarly low. Dawkins is a nice spark off the bench, but until he rounds out his game, he really doesn't add much that Robinson doesn't already do—and, somehow, I think Robinson has become the better defender.

HELP US, CARIS

What the hell is wrong with Caris Lavert? What is his injury really, and at this point, will he really be able to get back in shape and reintegrate with the team completely before the tournament. Could reintegration process be so rocky it jeopardizes our tourney chances?

Your guess is as good as mine as to the specifics of LeVert's injury and his potential return—all we're getting from the team's end are vagaries about how he's getting ever-closer to seeing the floor, but he's still walking around warmups in sweats with a noticable limp. The absurd statements about LeVert's supposed lack of toughness or him valuing the draft over this year's team are just that: absurd. He's clearly hurt in a way that would prevent him from being effective; when he can be effective, he'll be back.

A couple weeks ago, I might've had some concern about him fitting back into the lineup, which had gelled in his absence. After the last couple games, however, it's obvious how much this team needs him; if anyone on the team can solve the offense's problems, or at least assuage them, by presenting a threat off the dribble, it's LeVert. While LeVert isn't a great on-ball defender, he'd also give the team more lineup flexibility when certain players are struggling to match up on that end. The sooner he returns, the better, and I have a hard time seeing him hurt this team's tourney chances.

TOURNEY TEAM?

Yes, but it's getting perilously close. Michigan's strong start in the Big Ten gave them some cushion; over these final seven regular-season games, they can go 3-4 and still feel pretty good about their chances, and that's exactly the finish KenPom currently projects.

While that obviously doesn't leave much room for error, Michigan has done quite well when facing teams outside the top tier of the conference, and that should be their saving grace: Michigan shouldn't drop any lower than the eight-seed in the conference tournament (they're currently at #6, 2.5 games clear of #9 Nebraska), which would set them up for a winnable opening game that could very well make the difference come Selection Sunday.

Comments

funkywolve

February 8th, 2016 at 3:38 PM ^

How's the roster going to shake out next year?  UM only has two players listed as SR (levert and Albrect) but they have 4 recruits who have verbally committed.  Will there be enough scholarships for all 4 of the recruits who have verballed?

93Grad

February 8th, 2016 at 10:42 PM ^

(which for some reason was not used on Max). This means they are currently one over the alotment.  There was talk in the past of Davis going to prep school which I think might be the best posible resolution.  Barring that, there will have to be some form of attrition with a couple obvious candidates for transfers due to a lack of playing time.

funkywolve

February 8th, 2016 at 11:53 PM ^

Having an open scholarship and not keeping Max is a head scratcher.  The guy isn't going to be all Big Ten but he gets 17 minutes a game and averages 8 pts and 4.5 boads while shooting 55% from the field.  That's pretty much UM is getting from Donnal, but after that there's almost no production from the bigs.

MGlobules

February 8th, 2016 at 3:41 PM ^

from a more generous perspective if McGary had been able to stay and we didn't have the injuries last year. (Note that I am taking the NBA departures off of the board as excuses.) We're probably looking at more wins this year if not. . . Caris, Spike.

Beilein maintains responsibility for the final product, and I have my quibbles with him--slow to call timeouts sometimes, auto-benching rather than situational benching, etc. But some of the bullshit going around has been total bullshit. UMhoops has just become a clownshow, which is super-disappointing, since that guy Dylan has labored long and hard there.

TrueBlue2003

February 8th, 2016 at 7:03 PM ^

if Trey Burke doesn't complete a 1% comeback against Kansas, and we end that season, a season in which we had the most talent in college basketball, without a B1G regular season or tourney title and a loss in the sweet 16, the torches and pitchforks would be flying off the shelf right now.

This hasn't been a hard luck tenure overall.  2012 and 2013 were particularly fortunate, and yes, the last two seasons have been unfortunate from an injury standpoint, but every team deals with that over the course of many seasons. You can play the what-if game lots of directions.

Bottom line is that the 2012 recruiting class appears more like a fortunate blip and not a sign of newfound recruiting prowess for Beilein and his 6-7 years not including that class, in which we've been a .500 B1G team, give or take, is about the expectation for Beilein.

redjugador24

February 8th, 2016 at 3:40 PM ^

Outside of the conference it wasn't as apparent, but even then we were living and dying by the 3 ball. Since there is NOBODY who is a threat to beat their man off the dribble and finish at the rim, teams don't have to leave shooters to help. Thus less open looks from 3, more forced shots, etc.

 

This was painfully apparent vs. Indiana when they kept intercepting passes from guards that got trapped deep under the rim and tried to kick to the corners instead of drawing contact and finishing.  Indiana was (smartly) overplaying the kickouts because they knew Walton, MAAR, etc. weren't going to finish at the rim. And they didnt even try most times, instead just threw blind passes to stationary shooters.

DowntownLJB

February 8th, 2016 at 6:36 PM ^

Fair enough - if we could only have one of them back, I'd definitely prefer Caris.  Though I do think too many forget how not having Spike compounds how much we miss Caris.

I think he'd get a lot more than 10-15 mins considering we're basically playing 5 guys right now for 4 spots most nights (Walton, MAAR, Dawkins, Irvin, Robinson), which means not much rest for our jump shooters.  I think Spike would easily get 20-25 mins at 1 and 2, depending on match ups in a particular night.

BursleysFinest

February 8th, 2016 at 3:40 PM ^

We suck on defense and have always sucked, sometimes winning despite it... but why accept that instead of at least hiring an defensively-focused assistant or something?  That's what really bothers me.

TrueBlue2003

February 8th, 2016 at 8:59 PM ^

has reached a whole new level this year too.  It's at 159th in the country.  A B1G team.  That's Rutgers territory.  We've had a lot of defenses in the 100s under Beilein but this is the worst of them all.

I don't actually think it's the lack of athleticism or even length that is the problem.  A huge part of it is effort, focus and smarts - being in the right places.  Our best defensive teams under Beilein amazingly weren't when we had the NBA athleticism, it's when Stu and Novak and Jmo were playing big minutes. We were between 37th and 69th in the country the four years of Stu and Novak. Only one other year under Beilein have we been better than 100th at defense and that was the year we had 5 NBA players starting (but were still only 48th).

Aubrey Dawkins is the prime example, and Tim Hardaway and GR3 are exhibits II and III how elite athleticism does not at all translate to good defense.  Dawkins is so lost and clueless out there it is remarkable.

Beilein has never been a motivator so it's clear he has to recruit for effort. I have to be honest, if we can't get NBA guys, I'd rather get Novak and Jmo (high effort, high energy) types than Dawkins and Donnal (high skill, questionable other) types.

cclittle

February 8th, 2016 at 3:41 PM ^

"He wasn't effective against Indiana and almost all his production against MSU came after the game was well in hand."

To be fair, the production bit was true of basically every U of M and MSU player. :(

KingsWolverine

February 8th, 2016 at 3:44 PM ^

Ace great post as usual. Reading about Caris made me think, is it possible he turns in to Mitch McGary and we hope he comes back every week but every week we just sigh and never see him again?

Kingpin74

February 8th, 2016 at 4:00 PM ^

If we got there with wins over Minny, Northwestern, and OSU and even if we won an opening round BTT game against a Penn State type of team, that puts us at 21-12 with exactly two quality wins. It's looking like a soft bubble this year, plus you have SMU and Louisville graciously clearing two spots. So it's possible. But I really think we'd be sweating it out in that scenario and are probably looking at the play-in game if we do get in.

Maybe if you swap out that theoretical OSU win with a Purdue, Iowa, Wisconsin, or another Maryland win and you're OK. But keep in mind how bad our nonconference schedule RPI was outside of our 3 double digit losses. I think you need 12 total Big Ten wins to feel totally safe.

J.

February 8th, 2016 at 6:24 PM ^

That isn't how the RPI works.  There's literally nothing in the formula that takes into account whom you beat and to whom you lost.  In fact, as ridiculous as it sounds, the losses to MSU and Indiana are worse for the RPI than a loss to Minnesota would be -- because home losses count for 1.4 whereas road losses only count for 0.6.

Happily, the RPI appears to be more-or-less ignored by the selection committee.  The RPI's main benefit was that it was computable, given the limitations on data and computer power in the late 70s/early 80s.  There are plenty of better ways to rank basketball teams these days.

TrueBlue2003

February 8th, 2016 at 10:51 PM ^

so indirectly it does matter.  They benefitted from a SOS bump by playing MSU that will likely more than make up for the home/road difference in what the loss would count for.  They will be hurt just by playing Minn in the SOS factor, and yes, while the road loss doesn't count incrementally as much as a home loss, the combo of the loss and the hit to SOS will probably cause a greater hit to RPI given how low Minn is ranked (200+).

redjugador24

February 8th, 2016 at 3:55 PM ^

Also, I think with better guard play our bigs would be serviceable offensively.  Right now they only touch the ball at the top of the key and never get it back on a pick and roll.  I don't think that's on the bigs so much as the guards not creating passing lanes.

Give me 3-4 easy buckets on pick and rolls, the threat of an inside look that draws a help defender, and 3-4 less times per game we are playing transition D, and I'd feel much better about this team.  But we still can't play D.

TrueBlue2003

February 8th, 2016 at 7:10 PM ^

is everything.  We're 16th in the country in offense.  Another bucket or two per game are negligible and unnecessary if we can't get a stop here or there.  159th (!!!) in defense.  And at one point, we were in the top 100 so the last 10 or so games (starting with Purdue) have just been absolutely abysmal, even SOS adjusted.

ak47

February 8th, 2016 at 4:02 PM ^

Hey Ace, don't know how much you plan on replying to comments but this season is a make the tournament and be happy with it sort of ceilieng.  Which is generally fine to have and shows how beilein has helped raise the bar of expectations but at what point is worry about the future of the team justified?

We have seen how next years team looks and it isn't super pretty and all we are adding is a backup pg, a moderately rated wing with moderate athletecism and shooting and two (or one depending on prep years) not super athletic big men who are most likely multiple year projects.  Meanwhile MSU got all the recruits Beilein originally wanted, Maryland is probably going to bring in another top 10 national class, Indiana looks better, and OSU is a super young but talented team that will have another year.  At that point you are asking for a 65 year old beilein to drastically turn it around on the recruiting trail or we are looking at 4-5 straight year of mediocrity.  Am I right to be a little panicked there isn't enough time left in Beileins coaching career for him to get the team out of being a middle of the road team again?

Lanknows

February 8th, 2016 at 5:48 PM ^

The last two recruiting classes have been terrible, but the Watson/Simpson/Teske class should pay immediate dividends.  Caris is impossible to replace but he's already been MIA this year and everyone else returns.

MSU will have talent coming in but loses a lot more.  Michigan should be right there at the top of the Big Ten next year.

Stringer Bell

February 8th, 2016 at 6:08 PM ^

No offense, but that's what we heard last year too, that Michigan should be right at the top of the Big Ten with all the experience and depth.  We're losing far and away our best player and quite possibly the only NBA draft pick on this roster, and the only freshman who I could see making an impact next year is Simpson.

AC1997

February 8th, 2016 at 6:29 PM ^

Simpson will join the rotation right away for sure and help fill the Spike void. But the two bigs are projects and we have four of those already on the roster. Teske has height we could use, but he isn't ready to contribute. Watson is a wildcard, but given his skillset and ranking I don't see how he gets meaningful minutes with Irvin, Rahk, Dawkins, and Robinson essentially playing his spot and Beilein desperate to play a real stretch-4 if anyone can earn the job.

Lanknows

February 8th, 2016 at 6:46 PM ^

And since then we lost both our seniors to injury.  That Depth that was supposed to be an asset; Michigan lost it.  All those optimistic projections assumed Spike and Caris were healthy.

I think you're also ignoring the 'other' thing that you heard many saying - that this team will only go as far as their center play.  Donnal has emerged from irrelevance but Doyle has taken a big step back and Wagner and Wilson are stil trying to develop.

Teske and Simpson will both make an impact because PG and C are where we have the greatest need.

Things haven't gone as well as we hoped this year but getting everyone back a year older, losing Caris (who has already been lost for half this year anyway) and adding Teske/Simpson/Watson should indeed make this team better.  Meanwhile, most of the rest of league will get worse.

I know it's been nasty the last 2 games where the bad recruiting of the last 2 years is manifesting on the court, but there's still a ton of potential here.  The key thing is that Michigan needs 2 centers and 2 PGs who it can play around all these wings.  Donnal is getting there but they need Doyle, Wagner, Wilson, Teske or Davis to step up.

I think people are badly underestimating Zak Irvin's talent, and his improvement from just 1 year ago. I think people are also underselling how awful the center play has been.

TrueBlue2003

February 8th, 2016 at 6:31 PM ^

and drastically improve the interior defense, the new class isn't going to make much of a dent. I can't imagine Watson is going to take many, if any minutes from Rahkman, Irvin, Robinson or Dawkins on the wing, and Simpson will improve the backup PG situation but that's only 5-10 min a game.  The team we see on the court now, is going to be playing 90-95% of the minutes next year, unless Teske can move ahead of several guys. So any improvement will have to come from guys on the roster, hopefully one of Wilson, Chatman or Wagner making a big leap.

mgoBrad

February 8th, 2016 at 4:02 PM ^

Let's not forget that Beilen runs a squaky-clean program. I hate to be *that* guy and make *that* excuse, but lets get real here. BBall recruiting is every bit as dirty, if not dirtier, than FBall recruiting. I don't think there's any coincidence that in certain classes, the top tier guys Beilein targets seem to initially have interest before mysteriously cooling on us down the stretch (or flipping, etc.). This goes double for guys who are under the radar, blow up once Beilein goes after them, and then end up with another program in the end.

I know nobody wants to hear it or really talk about it, but I think this issue is as much of a factor in Beilein's recruiting misses as anything. 

BursleyBaitsBus

February 8th, 2016 at 4:05 PM ^

Beilein's recruiting strategy is just dumb in general. I'm not saying cheat, but his methods are archaic. It's not surprising why Michigan loses out on top players to other more diligent schools on the recruiting trail.