But I heard you should add Torrian Wilson and Richard Ash to that list as well; last I heard they're visiting, so there's at least a possibility of a commitment.
If this is outdated scuttlebutt let me know.
GBW is reporting that OH S Ray Vinopal has committed to Michigan($). Either that or they just like posting stories titled simply "Ray Vinopal!" Informative update coming.
GURU RATINGS & CHATTER
|2*, #144 S||2*, NR||2*, 68, #254 ATH|
All right… yeah. So Vinopal is a "sleeper" if you want to be kind or a "MAC prospect" if you're not a Michigan fan. But hey, he's basically Ted Ginn!
I saw Vinopal take an end around for a touchdown against MY Irish (St. Vincent St. Mary). The kid is ridiculously fast. He's one of those kids who you get into school and worry about a position later.
I hate to throw the comparison out there, but he reminds me of a shorter Ted Ginn.
Doesn't have the same top end speed IMO, but a very very good football player.
Oh. So, like, a slow Ted Ginn. More, because as long as we're taking a comment from a random Notre Dame message board it might as well be the whole thing:
People forget Ginn was a top cornerback coming out of high school, and switched to WR as a freshman. I could see the same thing with Ray. People will look at his size and say corner, but I think he'd be deadly in the slot and as a returner.
ESPN, for its part, does not reference Ted Ginn in its evaluation of the #254 "athlete" in the country:
Lacks desired length and height as a high-point safety as well. He is an active run defender who will come down and fill hard; provides good secondary support. Shows adequate closing burst and makes solid contact as a tackler with better-than-adequate pop. Overall underneath range and speed is good but he does not fill with great downhill burst and sharp angles; loses outside leverage on the ball at times. … Lacks quick diagnosing and reaction skills which is a concern. Not a guy who projects well playing down over the top of slots in man coverage schemes and feel he could struggle mirroring/breaking down on quicker skill players in space.
That is Jordan Kovacs. I don't know, maybe this evaluation was pre-senior season and he got a lot better, warranting the interest from major programs this fall, but that's the least enthusiastic ESPN scouting report this guy has ever seen.
They aren't encouraging, as Vinopal was a sleeper going into his senior season and despite "interest" from a number of local power programs it doesn't appear that any other than Michigan pulled the trigger. So, the teams beaten out: Bowling Green, Kent State, and Air Force.
For what it's worth, Vinopal claimed that Notre Dame—where he visited for the USC game—and Pitt were considering him after his strong senior year. Wisconsin also might have offered in July or something, but it's unclear.
No senior stats yet but here's his junior year:
After intercepting two passes his sophomore season, the 5-foot-11 and 185-pound Vinopal had another interception his junior season and had three games in which he made over 10 tackles. Vinopal also rushed for 1,112 yards and scored 12 times.
FAKE 40 TIME
How about a spectacularly FAKE combine from Vinopal's freshman year?
Also deserving special mention was freshman ATH Ray Vinopal of Cardinal Mooney in Ohio. At 5-foot-9 ½ and 178-pounds, he had a 28.5-inch vertical, 9-foot broad, 4.45 shuttle, 4.56 40, and 30 reps at 135-pounds.
4.56 40 as a freshman gets four FAKES out of five.
Vinopal is the guy running around with a huge arrow over his head:
And some pass coverage:
PREDICTION BASED ON FLIMSY EVIDENCE
Well… if you care about recruiting rankings, Vinopal is clearly the least exciting recruit in the class. That ESPN evaluation checks off all the things you don't want to hear about a recruit: small, slow, confused, etc. And on film he really does look like Kovacs. But there's a reason I don't watch recruiting film: I am a blogger. Obviously Michigan and a couple other schools looking at Vinopal thought there was something there, but recruiting rankings are meaningful things and a Brandent Englemon is a best-case scenario here.
That said, sometimes guys fall through the cracks and a lot of successful defenses are built from parts like Tyler Sash and whoever Wisconsin's running out there these days. The odds are against Vinopal, but that's not a guarantee.
UPSHOT FOR THE REST OF THE CLASS
You can write off the renewed Oh S LaTwan Anderson interest: with Vinopal's addition, Michigan has six defensive backs in this class and is primed to add a seventh in FL CB Tony Grimes. More likely, Marvin Robinson will find himself at linebacker before long.
More interesting is the scholarship situation: Vinopal is the 23rd commitment and three guys are expected to commit sooner or later, pushing Michigan over 25 and necessitating someone coming in on a grayshirt if there is no attrition. Vinopal may be that grayshirt candidate, come to think of it. It's clear that Michigan will sign 28 this year with three guys aware that they are candidates to grayshirt if everyone gets in. Vinopal and the two guys currently unqualified are the most likely.
Etc.: Photo gallery of a Mooney blowout has several pictures of Vinopal.
But I heard you should add Torrian Wilson and Richard Ash to that list as well; last I heard they're visiting, so there's at least a possibility of a commitment.
If this is outdated scuttlebutt let me know.
Jefferson is down to USC and OU so I would forget about him.
Beachum, Michigan has a good shot of landing him.
Furman, Michigan leads for Furman.
Grimes and Murphy, consider them as part of '10 class.
Knight, has a shot but not that good
Mathis, no shot
You're right there are 3 recruits who should choose Michigan. I would expect some recruits being asked to greyshirt. Plus Drake and Kinnard may not qualify. As of now, the class is full when you count Grimes and Murphy as part of the class.
Does anyone know if he ever came on an official visit or if he was officially offered a schollie? If he was only offered as a preferred walkon then he could come with an academic scholarship and walkon without counting. The NCAA distinguishes between formally recruited and formally invited.
Prolly Michigan can handle him an Academic scolarship.
Vinopal visited for the Ohio State weekend like 1 or 2 weeks after being offered if im not mistaken.
i'll say it Pat White was a 2 star.
Recruiting Rankings don't matter
Perhaps you weren't aware, but there are several posters on MGoBlog who just don't think you made a good decision here. You see, they want you to only sign five star players and so there's simply no reason to go after people whom they, with their vast resources of athletic scouting (ie. Scout and ESPN), aren't too big on. Maybe you should login to the blog and ask us who we want, and we'll be happy to tell you who you're allowed to offer and who you are not.
PS. They really want Seantrel Henderson. You should sign him too.
Six Zero: you should thank dahblue. he made your point for you better than your own words.
We arent wasting a scholarship you fucktard. The coaching staff clearly felt that he was deserving of a scholarship and accepted his commitment. Maybe, brace yourself here, the coaching staff knows more than you or any of us know. Maybe they have evaluated this kid more than any of us have. Maybe they get paid to do this for a living.
Maybe people like you should let the kid play first before you go spewing this shit of wasting a scholarship.
while i agree that competing with mac teams does not seem like a good idea. i just want to ask a few questions that with your vast and superior knowledge can certainly clear up for us.
1. excactly how many kids play highschool football?
2. do 2/3 of the college programs really care about Oh. football when they can recruit from Tx, Fla, Ca.?
3. how long would it take to watch film on all those high school athletes?
4. is it possible that given his junior tape where the evaluation wasn't so high, that unless you "knew" about him that he might have been passed up?
You're missing the fact that Vinopal had no offers from BCS schools. It isn't just trusting the recruiting services' stars, it's wondering why every other BCS coaching team didn't find it worth offering him. With Carvin Johnson, there was the explanation that he is from a school that doesn't regularly send players to D1 football and so went unnoticed, but Vinopal is from Youngstown, Ohio, and that doesn't apply here. When we have interest from highly rated players with offers from top programs, it doesn't make sense to put your offers out for the last few spots until you have to.
This one is really confusing. It just doesn't seem to make much sense considering how many other prospects are expected to commit or are showing high interest.
It will be interesting to see what all shakes out. I smell a decommit or two coming.
May you have a wonderful career here. And I hope there isn't shenanigans if Parker or Jefferson or McKnight decide they want to come here too.
Vinopal's team, Cardinal Mooney, just won the state championship for their division. I mean, they JUST won -- the game started at 11:00AM eastern. I highly doubt the kid would be talking about a college commitment a few hours before his championship game, so that leaves two other possibilities
1. He "embargoed" his announcement to one of the GBW geniuses until after his game, or...
2. He announced in front of some reporter's handheld mic in the locker room or on the field post-game.
In any event, this appears to be another sleeper, like Carvin Johnson -- smart kid, comes from a school with a tradition of winning, doesn't have any interest in doing exhibitions or distributing film to scouts, doesn't have enough stars for people at places like this, Rich Rod loves him.
but i still think m-rob stays at FS
I hate to send anyone to the history books to figure out this email, but I was in school when Barry Pearson was playing and this guy looks exactly like Barry. While watching those tapes, I wasn't thinking "big", or "hits hard", or "fast". I was thinking "smart". I've seen this before. Now all we need to find is a Tom Curtis for the same backfield.
Marvin was interviewed by GBW about two weeks ago, he said he hoped to enroll early, and that he has been told by the coaches that he will be slotted into the FS position. If he's good there, I don't want him moving.
so he's a quicker, more athletic version of jordan kovacs? uh, what the hell is wrong with that?! and save the, oh man we should be getting so and so 5* stud. i'm sure the coaches are fully aware of the scholarship situation and those they still have a good chance of landing. watching the film, the dude can already read plays and tackle better than several kids we already have on the team returning for next season. the one thing i will say is he does look small, even on the high school level. there, i said something negative but seems like a solid pickup.
Maybe we need to look at those horrible 2-deep charts from last year again to remember that solid teams are built with 3* players. We're just trying to get back to solid right now. If the kid can play, then he should be on the team. If he couldn't play, they wouldn't have offered.
I don't dislike Kovacs either and I'm hoping that as he learns to read he'll become solid instead of toast.
If Warren leaves for the NFL -which is sounding more and more likely- that frees up another scholarship but we still have the 25 person class thing (or do we? has anyone figured it out?).
Regardless, I hope Ray finds great success on the field in Michigan Stadium and in whatever discipline he pursues academically. Welcome aboard!
As I understand it, if Warren leaves, it has no impact on this year's class. You can take 25 kids per recruiting class, and you cannot exceed an overall number of 85 scholarships. At present, we are so far below 85 (71 rings a bell) due to the attrition -- and that's before graduations -- that the full 25 will still keep us under 85 overall.
The question that remains to be answered is whether we can exceed 25 by having some kids enroll early. In that case, I've heard it said that they would count against last year's class (which, not including Witty, had 21, right?) instead of this year's.
So, if that is indeed the case, we could stash 3 early entrants (and Witty) in last year's class bringing this year's total to 28.
Of course, no one is certain of the new rules (or even if they are "new"), so what the hell do I know.
PS--I really hope this doesn't portend bad news from Josh Furman.
PPS--Yes, there are enough caveats in this post to choke a lawyer... by design. It is as much as question as a comment.
The kid is first team all Ohio. His team just won a state title.
Obviously, he can play, and if Michigan didn't want his commitment, they didn't have to accept it.
Best of luck to Ray. I hope that he plays and plays well.
and a Brandent Englemon is a best-case scenario here.
So, like, our 2nd best S since Marcus Ray? Deal.
If that's the case i guess he means that Englemon was a lower ranked kid wich played a significant role until his senior year, but hey! we miss him after the 2008/2009 Brown/Williams combo.
I posted this the other day...but I just enjoy watching it a lot.
I said "second best since Marcus Ray". Adams would have been my #1.
I live in Florida, and I am a huge Michigan fan. The day after this game I went to my school where I teach (P.E. Teacher) and created a shirt that said "Michigan is Tebow's Kryptonite". The students hated me for a long time, even today. Love That clip, I appreciate you letting us see it once again. Doesn't get old!!
Saying Brandent Englemon is the best-case scenario for Vinopal is like saying Vince Young is the best case scenario for Devin Gardner. Or that Mike Vick is the best-case scenario for Denard Robinson. It's possible, but playing the odds ...
Also, I love me some Englemon. But to be honest, a team full of Brandents does not a dominant defense make. Ideally, we'd have playmakers, and not just solid and competent but ultimately limited custodians of their positions. The fact that he probably is the second-best safety we've had says a lot more about our safety play than anything else.
The following players from the 2009 and 2010 classes have the potential to be hard-hitting, quality safeties at Michigan:
JT Turner (if switched)
Buck Christian (if switched)
Add Vinopal to that mix as well. Rich Rod is stocking the cupboard with either high quality, guru approved athletes, or players that might be a little lower rated but have performed at the highest level in HS.
This is a little different than the previous regime which took a 2 star FB and turned him into a what will be 4 year starter at MLB, isn't it? Or, what about the tale of Johnny Sears?
Rich Rod knows what he's doing. This kid is a good pickup.
ND took a strong look at him. Obviously there won't be any ND offers going out for a little while, not sure if they would have offered sans coaching search.
Also there is probably a bit of a "saving his seat" mentality here as well, its his only BCS offer and as it is widely known, space is running out in the UM recruiting class. It will be interesting to see how he views any latter offers.
Hopefully he pans out like Kyle McCarthy did, who also attended Cardinal Mooney and was not much a recruit.
Exactly, not flashy but for the most part gets the job done. He is the type of player you don't have a full appreciation for until he has graduated, which is sad in a way.
Having watched the two highlight vids, Im giving him points for running up in there and hitting somebody.
Wishful thinking causes me to assign a Donny Dufek quality to the kid.
Yes, that does make me pretty old.
Brian, who are "the two guys currently unqualified"?
Kinnard and Drake are having trouble with that...
I like it, and I stand by what I said in the forum thread.
A kid from Cardinal Mooney, who has been one of their best players, if not their best on D, for a few seasons and spearheaded a state championship team from Ohio......I will take that kid every single time and take my chances that he will become a good player.
Darrel Johnson Koulians and Kyle McCarthy are recent examples of Cardinal Mooney kids who were middling and meh 3-star recruits. They seem to be working out.
This is a football factory. Kids go there to play and learn football. I can see him playing here.
Besides, we need all the DBs as possible. They're all lottery tickets. This is just another one in whats looking like a large DB class for us. That's the right tonic to fix the Back 7.
Do you mean "Get us to 11-2"?
His WVU team was good and feared, and made Oklahoma look fool?
Let me get this straight. We got a first team all state kid from Ohio who just led his powerhouse program to a state championship? I dont see how this is a problem, regardless of how many spots we have left or how much wishful thinking any of us have about other, more guru approved players comitting here.
Rodriguez needs to establish as many Ohio pipelines as possible.
This is an example of doing just that.
We were the worst in the Big 10 at recruiting Ohio from 2005-07. Not so coincidentally, IMHE, we are now the worst actual team in the Big 10.
For UM to do as well as want, they have to be #2 in the Big 10 in Ohio, behind you know who. We are getting their with Rodriguez, who has quickly re-established Michigan back in Ohio recruiting.
Make no mistake, the Ohio kids from the 2008-10 classes will be the backbone of the Michigan Renaissance. Regardless of who actually corches them as upperclassmen.
A quality player with good academics...all state at a position of need...excellent coaching pedigree with D1 quality starters produced at his position.
...but ESPN and the gurus are down on him...after last season I'll take a flier on one player with that pedigree also.
We should consider the success of his team and his Division III award more than recruiting rankings or his offer list?
I'd been convinced that recruiting rankings mattered. But maybe what matters more is the above factors, in addition to gross quantity of recruits (i.e., Depth in Lottery Tickets.) Someone should do some statistical analysis.
I, for one, prefer to believe in the coaches who have multi-million dollar salaries on the line in assessing the talent they need for their program, not some middle manager who calls recruits in his garage at night and asks them for offer lists.
Yes, why not consider those factors. You should consider every factor. His Div 3 school is one of the best in the country. Its in a talent rich state that trains kids to play football.
More than anything, I lean on the fact that 2 former Cardinal Mooney players who were 'meh' recruits at best with little interest have panned out and been pains in the side for most teams in our region.
Kyle McCarthy, S, Notre Dame. Class of 2005
Darrel Johnson Koulianas, WR, Iowa. Class of 2006.
I'd take either of these guys on our team right now.
Those guys both won state titles at Mooney and were two-way stars for them. Arguably the best player on each of those teams. The same resume as Vinopal. The scouts didnt really like those guys coming out. I dont really care if the same scouts, for now, seem to like this kid less.
Given our woes in the d backfield, we need as many possible people stocking the roster back there. Given what other low rated recruits from this school have done, I have no problem taking a chance on this kid and give Rodriguez and Co and great shot at turning him into a Big 10 players.
Koulianos apparently had a far more attractive recruiting profile than Vinopal - he was a three-star WR, the number 47 WR nationally, and had some truly eye-popping stats. Koulianos had 1,350 receiving yards as a sophomore (!!) at Mooney, and apparently played quarterback and running back after that. So, as the proverbial Best Athlete on the Team, he fit the bill for a recruiting sleeper in that he didn't have one defined position, but was productive as all hell no matter where you put him on the field. Finally, he had offers from Iowa, Illinois, Cincinnati, Syracuse, West Virginia ... and pre-Recruting Desperation Mode Michigan. I'd be cautiously excited if we recruited D.J. Koulianos. Vinopal he ain't.
As for McCarthy, his other offers were Navy, Toledo, Northwestern, and Ohio State. So, Notre Dame and two Big Ten offers, one of which was Ohio fucking State. Not Kent State and Bowling Green.
The only thing separating you from 'Mike Hart so recruiting rankings don't matter' is the fact that these kids all played at the same (Div. 3, so not "The Highest Level") high school.
Look, I'm really pessimistic right now about Michigan football, and I'd probably be in a better mood if I could comfort myself with the mantra that The Coaches Know What They're Doing and Every Recruit Is Depth and Therefore Is A Good Signing (never mind that depth which is horrifying on the field doesn't do a team much good.) But don't act like you're being the logical one for being happy about the Vinopal commitment. You can make the claim to being a better fan, I guess, but you're not really making any sense.
i don't know how comfortable i am with this pickup (not that it matters...) but i do know that teams like TCU, Iowa, and Wisconsin have been playing lower rated players on defense for a while and it seems to work for them.
I know very little about high school football - my team was one of those small parochial schools in MI that makes the playoffs once a decade - but even I have heard of Mooney in Ohio. I'm fine with this pick-up, as it gets UM in the door at an elite football school. Will this kid be a star? Probably not. But he is a winner who wanted to go to UM, and right now I want kids like that on this team. Maybe not a team full of 2*-level kids, but a couple certainly doesn't hurt.
You did approve of 2 star Patrick Omameh's play this year, correct?
Michigan currently has 3 2-star recruits in its 2010 class. One (C. Jones) just led his high school team on an epic playoff run in South Carolina. A second just won a state title. The third (Williamson) is a state sprinting champion.
Let's get some perspective. Only Illinois (who has only 8 commits), Sparty, Ohio State and Penn State have fewer two stars than Michigan.
Minnesota, with that epic recruiter Tim Brewster, has 17 of 25 commits with either 1 or 2 stars.
Iowa has 6. Northwestern has 6. Purdue has 7. Wisconsin has 5-6.
I have no problem with this pickup. He's a winner, and he may get the bump now, which would make all this bitching a moot point.
Although this admittedly a highlight tape, I didnt see any hesitation in his reads or drops (Im looking at you Brown and Ezeh). Maybe the tape that ESPN watched shows that, but I am sure the M staff watched more than this highlight tape.
His angles were a little shallow on some of his fills, which will lead to whiffs on faster, stronger backs.
But his instincts look really good and he does it at speed.
Jamiemac makes a great point too about reestablishing the Ohio pipeline, although I was really surprised to learn that Lloyds last classes were last in B10 in Ohio kids.
Being last in Ohio is more my theory right now than anything else.
I have not seen any actual rankings to prove that. And, I am working on a blog post on this matter that spells it out in more detail, I just havent had time yet as I really wanted to finish to football season and start the college basketball with a strong run of posting at the JCB. But, I plan on spelling this out in detail. Some quickies, however.
The only contributer on the team right now from the 2005-07 classes from Ohio is Zoltan Mesko.
We've brought in twice as many top-100 recruits beginning in 2008 than we did from 05-07.
We've signed great Ohio recruits, but something happens when they get here. Example, 2006 we had 2 top-10 Ohio recruits: Justin Boren and Cobrani Mixon. Sigh
In 2007, we signed nobody from Ohio. Northwestern, meanwhile, has three starters on its defense from Ohio's 2007 top-100 prospect list.
When you look at the Ohio prospect lists from 2005-07, you would be startled at how many commits the other Big 10 schools received. Most of them had more.
Its a working theory, but when you realize how important Ohio has been to michigan's success since the beginning of the football program, then, well, you begin to understand why we're not as talented as we have been.
I'll take a flier on a non guru approved kid from Mooney or even anywhere from Ohio, than a on a non guru approved kid from Grand Rapids any day of the week and take my chances. And, if people think thats a knock on Obi Ezeh, well then whatever, but I think you get my point.
Don't diss on GR. They play great high school football around there. A lot of State Chmapions come from there.