Hello: Jeremy Clark Comment Count

Tim

Michigan has accepted a greyshirt commitment from KY S Jeremy Clark. Clark impressed the coaches at camp, but not enough to earn an immediate offer. Should he pick up a number of mid-level scholarship offers, I wouldn't expect this one to stick.

JeremyClark-mug.jpg

GURU RATINGS

Scout Rivals ESPN 24/7 Sports
2*, NR S NR S NR S NR S

Since Jeremy is effectively a member of the 2013 recruiting class (pending a decision from OH S Jarrod Wilson) and also very under-the-radar, this section should be brief. HOWEVA, with Brian unavailable, why not profile a guy who's basically a preferred walk-on at this point?

As you can see, the recruiting sites aren't so high on Clark. Scout is the only site with a ranking for him, and even that is a lowly 2-star. The sites are in accord there, and also on his size: He's a consensus 6-4 (ESPN says 6-2), with two votes for 205 pounds and two votes for 185 pounds. I'll go with 195 then.

Since there's nothing out there on the free webs, a paid article from Scout:

This 6-4, 175-lb. safety was the surprises of the day. He flashed good speed and EXCELLENT ball skills. He is a bit of a sleeper on the national scale because he grew four inches since last fall. Just as impressive was the fact that he soaked up the coaching like a sponge and just seemed to really be relishing the overall experience.  

Of course it's in their best interests to talk kids up as sleepers, so take it as a grain of salt. It's sleeper bluster, but in the parlance of sleeper bluster, height, ball skills and coachability are nice compliments for any system.

JeremyClark-OMGshirtless.jpgClark aso drew "plenty of attention" from Ohio State's staff at their camp ($, info in header), but apparently they didn't see enough to offer him. He is pictured OMG SHIRTLESS at right.

OFFERS

Most of Clark's full scholarship offers came from the MAC. Akron, Ball State, Central Michigan, Ohio, and Toledo were his offers from the Big Ten's JV league. NC State was his only other BCS-level scholarship offer.

STATS

His Rivals profile has junior year stats: 75 tackles, 3 interceptions, and 8 pass breakups. That's not a ringing endorsement of Scout's "ballhawk" characterization, but it's certainly not bad either.

FAKE 40 TIME

Rivals says 4.47. That is very fast. A kid with Clark's size is not an unranked prospect at this point in the recruiting cycle if he's actually that fast. I'm going to have to go with 4 FAKEs out of five.

VIDEO

Junior highlights:

PREDICTION BASED ON FLIMSY EVIDENCE

This guy is a greyshirt prospect for a reason. At one step ahead of preferred walk-on, it's tough to see him accomplishing much until very late in his career, as is usually the case for these guys. He'll greyshirt the fall of his first year (pay his own way and, if I'm not mistaken, not practice with the team), then join the squad as a redshirt freshman in the spring.

I see him being a special teams contributor as a redshirt junior and senior, and the type of guy who gets a few plays in the secondary, but not much more.

Of course, if he is the level of sleeper that Scout's recap above seems to imply, he could also blow up once he gets into college, and absorb all the coaching (and weight training, etc.) available to him, becoming a contributor by the time he leaves campus.

UPSHOT FOR THE REST OF THE CLASS

As a greyshirt, he doesn't affect much about this class. The needs are still offensive line, defensive tackle, wideout, and - with lesser emphasis - quarterback/running back.

Comments

blueblueblue

June 24th, 2011 at 1:11 PM ^

"The Blog is about informing (combing the Net and finding info, and compiling it in one place), being entertaining and fun in a creative way not many could do, showing the fan's feelings in written word (the grand and the stupid), and creating discussion."

If this were the case, I would participate much more often. I think the site owner and moderators have let their ability to manipulate numbers and use stats go to their heads (although their tools are still very superficial). They have misplaced the ability to predict using numbers and stats, with the accuracy of prediction. They have misplaced the use of stats with the assumption of being scientific. Put differently, confidence in prediction is not the same as accuracy of understanding of cause and effect relationships, unless the former is built from the latter. To predict using no causal relationships, and do so with claims of accuracy implicitly embedded in rash judgments, is to be very naive. 

A sports prediction is always placed in an a future time-space with many unknown variables, and with many known variables whose values are unknown. Put simply, things change. That's what makes sports so fun. What matters in cases like this is how much the person predicting incorporates uncertainty in his/her prediction - how much they admit how much they do not, and cannot, know. And then of course, how they assess what is known in the face of how much is not, and cannot be, known. 

blueblueblue

June 24th, 2011 at 2:58 PM ^

The only agenda I think you have is promoting your own inflated sense of knowledge of how a recruit will pan out. That you don't recognize your over-the-top negativity, which many posters have pointed out, is what is ludicrous. We are all faulty. Its when we deny we are faulty in the face of many people pointing out our faults that we become ludicrous. 

cazzie

June 24th, 2011 at 7:49 PM ^

tim and brian mean that statistically speaking, as a matter or mathematics, in the past, taken as a group, grey-shirts have less playing time over their carreers, then higher ranked recruits given regular color shirt scholarships. nothing to do with high horse.

they all, we all, realize as well as do you, that the future is unknowable. and the 5 FAKES system is a comic spoof on the accuracy of 40 times.

relax  a bit. this is the best college football blog on the planet. mathematically. not without faults.

watch this youtube on the 1992 team. Defence! Wheatley! Alexander! Dominence! 5 championship rings. this is what we all expect to get back to.

http://youtu.be/B3eVv95qxM4

 

feel better?

another couple of months. we can do this

Mr Miggle

June 24th, 2011 at 12:17 PM ^

Your "hello" posts are not the typical posts on this board. They carry official weight, as evidenced by the earlier hello threads on the board getting locked. IMO they should have two primary purposes, to inform your readers about the new recruit and to give us the chance to welcome said recruit. I've always been a little uncomfortable reading your projections, good or bad, in these threads. They seem a little out of place.

If you are going to write a pessimistic piece, you should be extra careful what you say. I got the feeling you were pretty careless this time. I'm guessing you usually spend more time on your hello posts, at the very least have more opportunity to review your words before posting them.

Others have already pointed out the big difference between greyshirts and preferred walk-ons. Nobody thinks Bo Devers is getting a scholly if Stanford and Burbridge go elsewhere. It's still early and the coaches are hardly in a position where they need to reach. That they are ready to give Clark the last DB spot if Wilson doesn't take it should temper your pessimism. Is his offer list much different than Standifer's when he was offered?

Despite the criticism, I do appeciate the work you do here and look forward to your posts.

AAB

June 24th, 2011 at 11:20 AM ^

I get that recruits read these boards, but the main purpose of these posts is to give readers a sense of how good Michigan's incoming players are.  We shouldn't take random pot-shots at 17 and 18 year old kids, but Tim didn't do that.  He just gave a harsh, but probably accurate, assessment of Clark's future prospects given his current ranking and offer list.  

That's his job with this stuff.  

MWW6T7

June 24th, 2011 at 11:42 AM ^

That's just it. It has been said by Trieu to pay no attention to his 2 star rating or his offer sheet because he had such a growth spurt over the last year and grid just now starting to hit the camp circuit. It is more than likely that once they do the next re-evaluations he will be bumped up by most if not all the sites. I am willing to bet if he does not accept this greyshirt/scholly offer that he would have gotten a f ew BCS level offers.

Wolv54

June 24th, 2011 at 12:38 PM ^

Not to be negative myself, but on the occassion I got to watch a Michigan game with Tim, I realized he doesn't know how to scout players or assess football; he's not a coach and never has been, so I don't take any of his write-ups as anything more than a regurgitation of a bunch of these scout profiles, other's opinions, etc.  One of the reasons a kid might be under the radar is that they don't hit the camp circuit heavily and are relying on their HS staff to get the word out, which has varying effectiveness.  It's obvious that the kid is a project, but that the coaches say something there that they liked and thought could turn into a performer.  It's akin to a kid getting all the hype, a 5-star rating, and all of the accolades of a future star while in HS, but they had already hit there ceiling in the 12th grade and they go to college and are mediocre players because they had no more room to develop.  A kid that grew 4 inches last year has still not filled out his frame.

socalblue

June 24th, 2011 at 6:45 PM ^

Stop being so sensitive.  If you don't like, don't read the damn blog.  He gave his honest opinion of a player that in all honesty probably won't be a contributor.

What about a kid like Demar Dorsey?  If a post regarding him had been written and it included the phrase "questionable academics and character issues, may not qualify" isn't that an analytic statement about the kid of the same vain?

What's wrong with being honest in your assessment.  I honestly believe if he reads that post, and if he's the type of "Michigan Man" everybody wants to talk about, then he will put that in the back of his mind everytime he straps on the wings and use it as motivation, along with everyone else who doubts him (myself included).

This is exactly what Adam Carolla calls the "pussification of America."

MJ14

June 25th, 2011 at 12:43 AM ^

I'm going to have to agree, from the get go this article just seems...mean and unwelcoming. To the one's saying he gives an unbiased analysis, I'm not seeing any kind of analysis or anything. Basically, the guy wrote he's going to suck because I know anything about him. On the contrary, Hoke, Mattison, and the defensive coaches know WAY more than you'll ever think you do and they offered the kid a scholarship the the University of Michigan.

If you think you know more than Mattison then fine, but I'm going to go with they wouldn't waste a scholarship for next year on a kid that isn't going to contribute much or will only help on special teams. They plan on him playing safety and probably being very good. He's been recorded in the 4.4's multiple times at multiple camps, so how you get 4 fakes out of 5 is beyond me. It's possibly the kid is a freak athlete, and unlike many players you really don't know much about him.

Basically, the guy who wrote this shouldn't have been in charge of writing it. Isn't there two people who do these hello posts or am I just crazy? The guy who wrote this knows absolutely NOTHING about the player he's trying to give an analysis about and quite frankly he did it in a very rude way. It wasn't even that he was negative, it's okay to be honest. But, he was a jerk about it, and it's clear he knows absolutely nothing about this kid.

GoBlue

June 24th, 2011 at 11:19 AM ^

As this will likely be a topic of discussion:

Greyshirt Info HERE.

Grey-shirting:

While most people are familiar with the phrase "red-shirt" most people have no idea what a grey-shirt is.  In fact, the NCAA does not even acknowledge the term.  In a way, grey-shirting is like the U.S. Army's Delta Force—everyone knows it's their, but the governing body doesn't acknowledge it's existance. 

Here is how grey-shirting works:

  1. A player commits to a team that is over-signed.
  2. That player either doesn't go to school in the fall, or enrolls part-time and pays their own way.  They are not officially on the team.
  3. In January of the following year, that player enrolls full-time and officially joins the team.  They are technically part of the recruiting class for the following year. 

Grey-shirting is a way for schools to skate around the recruiting rules.  It allows schools to over-sign, regardless of how many prospects they signed the previous year. 

Every player has a five year window to play four seasons.  That window starts the second a player is enrolled in college full-time or are on scholarship.  Since the player is not enrolled full time and is not on scholarship, their "NCAA clock" has not started. 

Once they join a team, they still have the full five year window and the ability to red-shirt if they so choose. 

While grey-shirting, players are not on the team. 

They can not practice or condition with the team.  They can not be given any advantage not extended to the normal student body.  Grey-shirts are not allowed at team meetings or functions either.  For all intents they are essentially, regular students.

Geaux_Blue

June 24th, 2011 at 11:26 AM ^

grey-shirts, in their 'cheating' scheme, thrive by the removal of players from that eventual class. rather than recruiting one less, as i expect hoke to do, players are punted for various reasons to make room. i would hope Hoke is using this grey-shirt as a "can't miss this kid" rather than a "we'll trim the fat to fit him in."

M-Wolverine

June 24th, 2011 at 12:21 PM ^

When you offer a guy a full scholarship, get a bunch of better guys, and then say sorry, your scholly is gone, but you can stay and grey-shirt and we'll see what we can do for you later. Telling a guy up front there's not a scholarship for him, but if one opens up he's first in line, even over the preferred walk-ons is something quite different.

GoBlue

June 24th, 2011 at 11:21 AM ^

You can find that info in my post, two above yours.  Basically, he would not yet be an official part of the team (and elegibility is not being used, assuming he is not enrolled full time).

mejunglechop

June 24th, 2011 at 11:17 AM ^

While I respect Tim's honesty I think some of the pessimism isn't warranted. The coaches really want him, but can't make the numbers work. Isn't a commitable greyshirt offer a bigger indicator of interest than the dozens of noncomittable regular offers we have out there?

Wolvermarine

June 24th, 2011 at 11:23 AM ^

Agreed.  This is in no way a slight step up from a preferred walkon.  He is a very good player who the coaches evaluated for multiple days at camp.  We are tight on schollies now, but the coaches even said he would get a full ride for this year if Wilson goes elsewhere. 

Also a mod on Scout said that there is no way the 2 star ranking on Clark is accurate anymore, and that he needs to be properly reevaluated 

wlubd

June 24th, 2011 at 11:28 AM ^

Yeah I think the preferred walkon analogy isn't quite accurate. He's got offers from NC State, Illinois, with interest from at least Cincy, Louisville and Kentucky. Not a world-beating offer list but not dissimilar from what Standifer was like when he committed. And every report from camp is that Clark was one of if not the best player there. Same reports coming from OSU when he worked out there. He might not be a star but preferred walkon is just harsh IMO.

GoBlue

June 24th, 2011 at 11:23 AM ^

They are offering him a scholarship, just not for this class. 

If what we've heard it correct and the staff is being honest and up-front, he'll have a scholarship as of January, presumably for 4-5 years.  Assuming next year's class will be a bit smaller than this years, one could argue that next year's scholarhship spots are even more valuable than this years.

Belisarius

June 24th, 2011 at 11:32 AM ^

I concur. My problem with the post is that this kid is NOT any form of preffered walk-on, he will just have a comprable status for a semester. This player will have a scholarship. He will be a scholarship player for 3-4 years. Progosticating that he is destined to contribute on special teams as an upperclassman is a bleak assessment I don't feel is warranted by the situation. Nobody offers scholarships to someone they expect to have so low a ceiling.

So with all due respect, and not faulting Tim's honesty, it just seems to me to be a mistake concerning what is expected of this lad's future.

DanGoBlue

June 24th, 2011 at 11:54 AM ^

And begin working with the UM staff and resources and potentially contribute that much sooner. So he would get a half year jump on the other members of his recruiting class—time spent learning the system, bulking up, exploring a position change (how are his hands??), et al

SKIP TO MY BLUE

June 24th, 2011 at 11:21 AM ^

Greyshirt Hello post or not, I have been recently trained to expect Hello posts from this staff more often. I have had a hard time waiting 2 weeks for a Hello post. Glad Jeremy Clark has signed on and I hope he becomes an asset at safety for Michifgan in the future. Good luck Jeremy!

BiSB

June 24th, 2011 at 11:29 AM ^

But the kid isn't "one step above a preferred walk-on." He had a commitable scholarship offer, albeit for the next class. The coaches saw enough to make them pull the trigger on one of the limited number of spots for next year. And from my understanding, if Wilson isn't a go, he'll be a full-on part of this class. That merits more than a "hey, we don't have anything else to do today, so WTF, here's this kid."

I can't say anything about talent: I'm computerless today, and my phone doesn't do video; said video may be useless since the kid grew a third of a foot since then; I wasn't at the camp; and I'm a shitty scout anyway. But methinks this merits a second draft.

Geaux_Blue

June 24th, 2011 at 11:36 AM ^

coaches told him he either will be a 2012 if wilson doesn't come or a 2013 student-athlete of the University of Michigan and he said "cool."

this somehow translates to "one step above a preferred walk-on."

he's one semester behind a 2012 student-athlete at worst.

rockydude

June 24th, 2011 at 12:18 PM ^

I am going to agree on several points, but the chief one is that the overall tone of the post is stunningly negative. OP really does sound upset about this offer. If I didn't know better, I would think that Hoke and Co are clearly recruiting incompetents, based upon what I read.

Given that the current staff are outstanding recruiters, and that Webb, also a professional in the field of talent evaluation, raved about the kid, I am going to say that the OP chose to bash a kid whose skills are respected by people much more knowledgable than him.

I do agree that everyone here has the right to an opinion, but that means that I get to have one also, and in this case, my opinion is that the OP was mean-spirited and really crossed the line.

Further, unless he was at the camp where Clark turned so many heads, it seems poorly informed as well. I'd really suggest an edit (or many) at this point. There is no reason to question a HS kid's entire future career based upon little to no evidence.

 

Ummmm - welcome aboard, Jeremy. Usually we treat our incoming guys way better than this. You're at a need position for us. We haven't had an impact safety in ages. Hopefully, you can get in there and fill that role . . . 

Blue in Seattle

June 24th, 2011 at 4:06 PM ^

Most people on this site (I guess most who comment, instead of just read) seem to worship TomVH.  The diary I read about this potential greyshirt prospect sounds far more positive on his talents than the "Hello Post" does.  So while I'm surprised there are so many comments on how the Hello Post was honest and not over critical, I'm completely shocked that there could be such a disagreement between two of the key content contributors (Tim and Tom).

But to me the tone of each article could be compared with these two sentences;

Tim - "step up from Preferred walkon likely to only see the field in cleanup for his senior year"

TomVH - "a guy who would have an offer if the coaches weren't already confident in a 4/5 star prospect, and have everyone else they need for DB in this class"

and I submit this quote from Tom

 

A name that has been popping up a lot since Michigan's camp is Kentucky safety Jeremy Clark. The 6-foot-4, 205-pound defensive back went up to Michigan to show the coaches what he has to offer. He now finds himself in a unique scenario, and I caught up with his coach today to talk about where Jeremy is at.

 

Jeremy Clark"He was offered a greyshirt today by the coaches, which could eventually lead to being a part of this class if the other safety they're in on doesn't commit," his coach said. The other safety he's talking about is likely Ohio defensive back Jarrod Wilson, who could be deciding as early as tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

chitownblue2

June 24th, 2011 at 5:57 PM ^

Tim and Tom are in different positions. Tom is very rarely critical of recruits games because doing so would be biting the hand that feeds him. If Tom wants a relationship with a recruit, he needs to remain impartial. Further, in a reportorial role, it's his duty.

Tim, regardless your opinion of his expertise, is in a role requiring him to pass an opinion. Part of this piece's rubric is "prediction based on flimsy evidence" - he is asked to opine on a kids future. Sometimes, it won't be rosy.

blueblueblue

June 25th, 2011 at 8:47 AM ^

I agree - I didnt attempt a knock on Tim (in that post at least). I didn't mean that Tim is 'unprofessional' in the derogatory sense, perhaps more 'non-professional' due to the nature of a blog. It just seems to me that Tom would be better placed, in the sense of making a career out of what he does, in a professionally-oriented outfit. 

JohnnyBlue

June 24th, 2011 at 11:31 AM ^

this guy is a textbook sleeper and who knows what he will show. these type of players slip thru all the time and sometiems they turn into NFL cablibre guys (look at Delmas from the lions 2nd round draft pick from a Western Michigan) sometimes they don't do anything. I think this guy has a higher ceiling than a couple of the DBs we already have but also may not pan out. 6-4 with sub 4.5 speed thats D1 athlete in its own right and he sounds coachable, he could also be a WR project as well with that size and speed if he doesn't look like he is going to be able to crack the 2 deep at safety

Incredible Hoke

June 24th, 2011 at 11:35 AM ^

This kid is a real sleeper and I can see why NCSU offered him. He has some real good ball skills and isnt afraid to lay the lumber on the ball carrier. He clearly needs some work with his coverage to be able to compete at the Division one level, but he can do it with a couple years. Welcome Jeremy! Go Blue!

msoccer10

June 24th, 2011 at 11:36 AM ^

He may never contribute and a two star rating is evidence for that. But looking at his highlights and height, I see someone who could be in the rotation for playing time at safety. I also think he is underated due to his growth and being REALLY skinny. I saw a 40 time that was (handtimed) from a camp, not self report, that said 4.48. So if that time is correct and he can put on some muscle with a good strength coach, I could see his ceiling being All Big ten as a senior.

I personally think we just got a huge steal. Filled a major position of need (free safety) without using a scholorship which we're short on. I think the staff saw this kid, felt he could blosom into an absolute stud and really wanted him. Then they looked at who else he has offers from, which players we have a good shot at, how many scholarships we have left and hoped he would commit with a grey shirt offer. I, for one, am ecstatic.

Welcome Jeremy. Go Blue!

DanGoBlue

June 24th, 2011 at 12:02 PM ^

Someone else posted that Scout admitted their assessment was out of date. And it's based on his junior year, when he was 4 inches shorter!? If Scout takes another look and comes back as a two star then maybe, maybe I agree. But I'm guessing that's not the case and I'm really looking forward to seeing this kid blossom. A big welcome Jeremy!

Nickel

June 24th, 2011 at 11:37 AM ^

Welcome aboard and hope he has a great career at UM, both on the field and in the classroom.

Re the pessimism: I think we already have 10 All Big Ten-ers and 3-4 All-Americans in the recruiting class based on the flimsy evidence predictions.  If anything the evaluations in general are probably more optimistic than warranted.  (But please don't stop that, it's summer and every college football fan is entitled to their unbridled enthusiasm).

Profwoot

June 24th, 2011 at 11:39 AM ^

One correction: When he joins the team in 2013 he'll be a true freshman, not a redshirt freshman. The point of grayshirting is that your eligibility clock doesn't start. He'll underenroll for the fall (or not take classes at all, but that's not preferred) and then join the team  in January.

And I agree about this post being too negative. The kid has grown 4 inches since the fall, and clearly has a ton of room on his frame to add muscle. He apparently was timed at 4.4 at two different camps and has great height for a DB. If those times and the reports of his ballhawking skills are accurate, he could grow into a nice rotation player in a few years.

Harmonnj

June 24th, 2011 at 11:41 AM ^

With a roster with a couple of 5'8 waterbug slot guys, they might be looking at this guy as a WR project. 6'4, speed, and EXCELLENT ball skills, and just as skinny. Sounds like a replacement for Shawn Conway possibly?

somewittyname

June 24th, 2011 at 11:42 AM ^

the scholarship eventually has to count to the overall scholarship total and so will affect how many players we have on scholarship in that respect. But when people say technically it wouldn't count until the following year, does that mean the player takes up one of the 25 slots at that point? Or does a greyshirt provide a way to completely bypass a kid from counting in either class?