Good job on the retraction, and throw me into the group who villified Carr needlessly.
"Jim's a tough guy and you can see his personality is all over this football team," Fitzgerald said.
TODAY: SPENT WITHIN NANOMETERS OF A BILLION CATS
So, right. Angelique talked to the people in question when it came to the weekend's Morgan Trent brouhaha:
Carr disputed the representation of the meeting during a phone interview on Monday with The News.
"That paragraph is completely a distortion of my conversation with Morgan," Carr said. "That is a complete distortion, and it is not accurate. I have never spoken with the author. I have never met him. I have never had a conversation with him to the best of my knowledge."
Trent on Monday told The News he initiated the conversation with Carr about what he had heard from NFL scouts regarding comments attributed to Rodriguez.
"Lloyd didn't bring any of this to my attention," Trent said. "When we spoke, I brought it up to him, and he said he had heard some of the same things."
This makes virtually everything I said about Carr wildly inaccurate and amongst the stupidest things I have to leave up, mocking me, for the rest of time. It has the added bonus of being not just factually inaccurate—see "we're totally going to a bowl in 2008!"—but mean-spirited and completely wrongheaded about someone who has given far more the university than I, and probably anyone reading this, has.
I mean… shit. Seriously. From time to time I am forced to look in the mirror and consider myself an asshole. This is one of those times. I don't know, man. The last few years have been wearing on me and at this point you would not believe the kinds of totally unverifiable but plausible-seeming stuff that hits my inbox and sometimes, like when you feel compelled to address the same damn thing that doesn't mean anything at all for the tenth time in the last few months the dike breaks and you publish something you regret. There is a lesson about the value of editors and a news cycle that has some time for reflection, consideration, and actually talking to the people involved. Sometimes it's unfortunate that this enterprise basically couldn't exist with the former and sometimes—still, even after five years—fails to apply the lessons learned over that timespan when it comes to the latter. And by this enterprise I mean "I". I know better by now, but apparently sometimes I don't. I absolutely should have applied Occam's Razor to "Lloyd Carr sells out university OR [CENSORED] who writes for Rivals' Rutgers site writes a book that vastly misrepresents something." I didn't.
All I can ask for is understanding. Mea culpa.
(At least I didn't buy the latest Big Ten rumors, amirite?)
Good job on the retraction, and throw me into the group who villified Carr needlessly.
This is why I love mgoblog. We all over-reacted yesterday, and I say that being someone who defended Carr. Mea Culpa from the rest of us who over-reacted but get the cloak of anonimity as a consolation prize for our shame. It takes a great deal of intestinal fortitude to not throw good credibility at a factually inaccurate story, especially when it is embarassing to admit how wrong you were. Thanks for not taking our trust in you for granted.
we all jumped too quickly to poor conclusions and hopefully we all learned the same lesson.
I'm very glad to see this. For the good of the blog.
and for the emerging standards for internet "journalism" in general. However, what I most liked reading is Brian's unmitigated mea culpa.
Although public apologies are becoming commonplace and formulaic, Brian's is different. His retraction does not hide in some backwater on the blog. It is not on page 3. It is not vague. You can share his pain on this one. He is more disappointed in himself than by the embarrassment of hitting the "save" button too quickly.
My respect for Brian and MGoBlog has increased exponentially with this retraction. I hope his example becomes contagious in a world where standards of news gathering and dissemination are nearly non-existent.
I think this site has now overreacted in both directions (and I mean the readers more than Brian, whose apology was quite honorable).
Yesterday: no one should have taken the random blog-about-book item and concluded Carr was actively undermining Rodriguez.
Today: no one should conclude Lloyd never said anything that (perhaps unintentionally) undermined Rodriguez.
I do not think Lloyd did anything wrong. But note he has not denied the original charge - that he told Trent Rodriguez had given scouts negative feedback. What he said was the paragraph was distorted. That could mean:
I still think this is the likely story--
Scout: What's your take on Trent?
RR: athleticism, great; attitude average
Someone: Trent's attitude has not been praised by his college coaches
Trent: Lloyd, I heard RR was saying I had a bad attitude
Lloyd: I heard that too, but you can't worry about that now
No one is out of bounds in that scenario. RR is honest, Trent's understandably miffed, Lloyd's simply polite.
I think Lloyd is a great man. But I think he may sometimes say things in friendship without realizing their potential impact if broadcast (e.g. "OSU would be great for you," "I also heard your attitude had been questioned")
After reading the initial article, I was pretty upset with Carr, and very disappointed. I really liked Carr, even though I was relieved when he announced his retirement. I didn't want to see him fired, but I didn't want him to continue coaching. I wanted to remember the best of Carr, and not games like the Appalachian state game.
So I was angry and disappointed in what I thought Carr had done. Because I was angry and disappointed, my mind was too muddled to right something nasty and apparently untrue. I am relieved that Carr wasn't the villain the book portrayed him, even though the target was never Carr. And I am glad my mind is too slow to give immediate response that could end up making me look stupid. I am still not happy with Morgan Trent, but maybe I need to give him the benefit of the doubt as well.
were more on par...no need to apologize or retract..
The original comments weren't based on the entire story and were very wrong. Move along now.
that there are still factions...And to ignore that Carr is part of the faction is not realistic...
Brian, hail to your Mea Culpa. Overlooking the elephantine Occams Razor in the room was the major transgression. And not just with regard to "... Lloyd sells out the University...", but also the implausibility of RR bad-mouthing a former player. Neither makes sense.
Still, your justifications -- "The last few years have been wearing on me... the dike breaks..." are completely understandable and make the piece forgivable.
As I once told you a while back in an email, a friend of mine met and had a conversation with Lloyd in the summer of '08 in which Lloyd said he reads MgoBlog and that you are "very knowledgable". Lloyd: you can forgive Brian, right?
Does anyone else think that the picture at the top is hilarious?
And I'm not even sure what the hell it really means...
is an attention whore, or a homo or something.
A homo what? A homo sapien?
Did I miss the part where Carr said he didn't have that conversation with Trent? A whole paragraph of the article is about him denying any conversation with the author (which was never really debated to begin with) and saying his discussion with Trent was distorted. He almost sounds like a politician with careful word selection. He could have had the exact conversation with Trent but just b/c he never discussed it with the author doesn't mean anything at all. The original story, in this case, could be almost entirely true! I'm just not seeing how Carr gets let off the hook completely from his non-statement statement.
This is just my observation after seeing tons of tons of coaches and athletes and everyone say things without really saying anything.
I believe there was a part in the story itself where Trent tells the DetNews he came to Carr and said "Coach Rod said a bunch of shit to scouts about me" and then Carr said he had heard some of those things. The original story made it sound like Carr went looking for Trent and then told him all of the nasty things Rod was saying about him.
I think there's a difference between "Hey Trent, Rod's telling everyone not to draft you," and "I've heard those rumors but have no idea whether or not they're true."
You formulated a strong opinion based upon the information you had at your disposal, and stated it well. I'm just glad that Carr finally said something. Carr may not be the head coach anymore, but his silence, as well as his words, carries a lot of weight.
Like it or not, there is the perception of a rift within the athletic department, and it is only natural that fans would be concerned. Brandon wouldn't have referenced it if there wasn't some justification for that perception. Carr has never appeared to really like talking to the media, but he could help the situation a lot if he were to deliver a passionate call for unity. It would be nice to see a few pics of him cheering at football games, too.
I think yesterday's statement was a great step in the right direction. And I hope that Carr eventually becomes one of the football program's best ambassadors. Because of the way the game appeared to pass him by, and because of his percieved resistance to the "new regieme," it is easy to forget that Carr did win the only MNC Michigan has had since 1949.
Hopefully, all will be well by September, and the winning starts this season.
Really? You don't think being the only man alive who can say, "I coached the Michigan football team to a national title" doesn't make him THE best ambassador for Michigan football?
And the idea that the game passed him by is only in your mind. How quickly are you forgetting the 11-0 and #2 ranking, before losing to the #2 and #3 final ranked teams in 2006? How quickly are you forgetting the epic comeback against Michigan State in 2007, and the defeat of the reigning national champs in the 2008 Outback Bowl (yes, "Lloyd Carr" is the answer to the question, "Who is the only coach to defeat Urban Meyer / Tim Tebow in a bowl game at Florida?")
I realize you're trying to create a narrative that fits your treatment of Lloyd Carr, but he won 122 games in 13 years. He won 5 conference titles, one national title, and his last group of graduates had the best passer and rusher in school history, along with the number one pick in the NFL Draft. The game hardly "passed him by."
Lloyd was one of my all time favorite coaches in any sport. I loved his character. Michigan was safe with him as coach, and that's how we ended up with RR. Lloyd was 7-5 in 2005, and lost to App State in 2007. Lloyd played safe, and lost a bunch of games that he probably should not have lost. I don't think anyone has forgotten the great things he accomplished, but none of us will ever forget App State and how it never should have happened.
I applaud this admission and it has restored some of my respect for you Brian. But, until you address your egregious leaps in logic used to assess Morgan Trent, like -
- I will give little regard to your analyses of off-the-field aspects of Michigan football. Your following statement applies to your take on Morgan Trent also:
Trent is not a saint. He said some unfortunate stuff about RR. But he, like many other Michigan players who have criticized RR, deserves our respect. They have given more to this university than we (you, I, perhaps everyone here) ever will.
More retraction is due.
Boren was critical of Rodriguez. And by your standard he has "give more to this university than we ever will".
In my opinion, the pieces of this puzzle are still very unclear. The universe seems to be extending to Carr more credibility in his denial (of a fairly vague nature) than RR. I reread the original entry after the additional Carr quote was provided, and beyond some technicalities, the newest quote doesn't provide much to refute the general assertions about the (potential of) undermining of the leadership of the football program by other employees, or creating turbulence that is not good for the sustainment of the Michigan image and success.
is stupid. What we have is that Trent came to Carr and said he heard from scouts that RR was bashing him. Unless Trent is completely lying, Carr said something along the lines of 'yes I have heard negative things from scouts as well.'
Then Trent, who clearly hates Rodriguez, turned around and gave his version of the conversation to Deren, who may or may not have added his own spin.
And you think Carr needs to be interrogated or something?
This is fucking idiotic.
If by "this", you meant to indicate what you write, I agree that it is idiotic, and I am glad that you concluded your rant so succinctly.
Carr is quite capable of being more specific to a) defend the coach/program and b) clarify what the conversation(s) were between himself, scouts, Trent, RR etc. Nobody deserves a free pass.
I must have missed the subpeona for an incident no one gives a shit about except obsessed Michigan fans trying to defend the honor of someone/something.
we makes section 1's head asplode?
Don't worry about it man I did the same thing. I truly was angry at him for what was being said that he did and was quite shocked because I thought he would never do such a thing. I myself apologize to Lloyd Carr for the things I said about him.
But this is why I love this site, and spend so much time on it. Because the worst post ever by the blogmeister can be followed by maybe the best. Can't get this anywhere else. Maybe an "oops" from any other information source, but not a full out apology, and one where you can feel it's sincere, and not a forced form letter.
I really think the last 2 years is driving all of us in the Michigan fanbase insane. Rich Rod HAS to succeed...just because I don't know that we can take much more. Brian is, first, and foremost, a fan. One who writes better than just about all of us, but a fan. But one with integrity. I know after bad things, I've said some stupid shit on here (oh, basketball season, how you gave diarrhea of the mouth and fingers), but I'm glad I stayed away from yesterday's stuff. It had no good end, either side you were coming out on. I'm learning it IS possible to say nothing...at least for awhile. But we all need to relearn it at times.
Someone in the college football world is very afraid of what Michigan will become when RR gets this team rolling. This mess seems like a conspiracy. I'm not theorist, but I see someone's hands pulling strings. Michigan has survived many things. Even when they left the Big 10 they survived. This mess will pass. No worries, I am not amused.
your passion for Michigan is one of the reasons why I wanted to join in on these conversations.
This blog and these people with all their particular skill sets and insights have collectively made my appreciation for Michgan that much greater.(not to mention forcing me to sharpen my spelling skills)
Sometimes there is a misstep; the important thing is to try to make it right and that is never easy.
Thanks for your energy, wit, insight and integrity and please - keep up the great work.
... to publish 24/7 is to err from time to time.
Your retraction was posted faster than most writers would have finished an original story that wasn't 10% as good.
Your punishment: wear one of these to a Michigan football game. Or better yet to a press conference...
How about one for breaking your promise to stop talking about Big Ten expansion?
Coach Carr's statement is really a non-denial denial, isn't it? “That paragraph is completely a distortion of my conversation with Morgan. That is a complete distortion, and it is not accurate.”
What’s missing to me, so far, is a denial of the allegation. (Did I miss the denial?)
Every re-telling of a conversation is distorted and inaccurate. Only video and a transcript can be reliably accurate.
I advise people "it doesn’t matter what you say in the meeting. What matters is what they think they hear and, more importantly, what they will tell other people you said in the meeting. So be careful what you say because you don't want to leave the wrong impression."
Or as Maya Angelou more artfully put it: “people will forget what you said … but they will never forget how you made them feel.”
Morgan Trent felt that Coach Carr told him that Coach Rodriguez was unfairly critical of Trent to NFL scouts.
In their awkward (hopefully) conversation where a young man is complaining about the new coach, Coach Carr should have been extra careful not to make Trent feel like Coach Carr was undermining Coach Rodriguez. That apparently didn't happen.
How does the old coach do that for the former pupil who doesn’t like the new coach? By saying something like: “I don’t know. Don’t believe rumors. I think you’re great and I told 12 teams you are a great player. You’ll be fine. Go out there and prove you should've been drafted in the 3rd round insteadd of the 6th.”
But instead Coach Carr made Trent feel that he either (1) was the one who told Trent about the rumors or (2) confirmed for Trent that he heard the rumors, too. Either way, Trent left that meeting feeling that he and Carr were aligned. And Trent confirmed his belief after the story exploded this week: "When we spoke, I brought it up to him, and he said he had heard some of the same things."
The re-creation of the Carr/Trent conversation by the author (and the participants) is, of course, distorted and inaccurate. They are humans not video recorders. But there is no question what Trent felt they discussed. And there is no question in my mind who is responsible for creating that impression with him.
I hope Coach Carr did deny the allegation and that I just missed it. If not, I hope that he will stop making other players feel like he is undermining Coach Rodriguez.