Home
supporting the Clint Eastwood State Fightin' John Waynes since 2011

Primary links

  • About
    • $upport (lol)
    • Ethics
    • FAQ
    • Privacy Policy
  • Contact
  • MGoStore
  • MGoBoard
    • MGoBoard FAQ
    • Ticket spreadsheet
    • Michigan bar locator
    • Moderator Action Sticky
  • Useful Stuff
    • Depth Chart By Class
    • Unofficial Two Deep
    • 2013 Offer Board
    • Crude Bug Tracking System
    • Third Down Stats
    • Diaries, Windows Live Writer, And You
    • Michigan Future Schedules
    • User-Curated HOF
    • Where To Eat In Ann Arbor
Home

User login

  • Create new account
  • Request new password

Navigation

  • Forums
  • Recent posts

MGoElsewhere

  • @MGoBlog (Brian)
  • @aceanbender
  • @TomVH (Tom)
  • RSS Feed
  • iPhone App
  • Facebook profile
  • MGoKindle Store
  • mgo.licio.us
  • Brian @ TSB [Archive]
  • Brian @ AOL [Archive]
  • Sour Salty Bitter Sweet

Michigan Blogs

  • Big House Blog
  • Brice's Recruiting
  • Burgeoning Wolverine Star
  • Genuinely Sarcastic
  • Go Blue Michigan Wolverine
  • Holdin' The Rope
  • MGoFootball
  • MVictors
  • Maize 'n' Blue Nation
  • Maize 'n' Brew
  • Maize And Go Blue
  • Michigan Football Recruiting
  • Michigan Hockey Net
  • The Blog That Yost Built
  • The Hoover Street Rag
  • The M Zone
  • The Wolverine Blog
  • Touch The Banner
  • UMGoBlog
  • UMHoops
  • UMTailgate
  • Wolverine Liberation Army

M On The Net

  • mgovideo
  • MGoBlue.com
  • Mike DeSimone
  • Recruiting Planet
  • The Wolverine
  • Go Blue Wolverine
  • Winged Helmet
  • UMGoBlue.com
  • MaizeRage.org
  • Puckhead
  • The M Den
  • True Blue Fan Forum

Big Ten Blogs

  • Illinois
    • A Lion Eye
    • Hail To The Orange
    • Illinois Baseball Report
    • Illinois Loyalty
  • Indiana
    • Inside The Hall
    • The Crimson Quarry
  • Iowa
    • Black Heart, Gold Pants
    • Fight For Iowa
  • Michigan State
    • The Only Colors
  • Minnesota
    • GopherHole.com
    • The Daily Gopher
    • I'm In Love With A Fringe Bowl Team
    • TNABACG
  • Nebraska
    • Big Red Network
    • Corn Nation
    • Husker Mike's Blasphemy
    • Husker Gameday
  • Northwestern
    • Sippin' On Purple
    • Lake The Posts
  • Notre Dame
    • The House Rock Built
    • One Foot Down
  • Ohio State
    • Eleven Warriors
    • Buckeye Commentary
    • Men of the Scarlet and Gray
    • Our Honor Defend
    • The Buckeye Nine
  • Penn State
    • Slow States
    • Black Shoe Diaries
    • Happy Valley Hardball
    • Penn State Clips
    • Linebacker U
    • Nittany White Out
  • Purdue
    • Boiled Sports
    • Hammer and Rails
  • Wisconsin
    • Bruce Ciskie

Links of Note

  • Baseball
    • Big Ten Hardball
    • College Baseball Today
    • The Baseball Zealot
    • The College Baseball Blog
  • Basketball
    • Ken Pomeroy
    • Basketball Prospectus
    • Midmajority
  • College Hockey
    • Chris Heisenberg
    • College Hockey Stats
    • Inside College Hockey
    • Michigan College Hockey
    • Hockey's Future
    • Sioux Sports
    • USCHO
    • Western College Hockey
    • CCHA
      • LSSU Hockey
      • Bronco Hockey Blog
  • Football
    • Smart Football
    • Every Day Should Be Saturday
    • Doctor Saturday
    • CFB Stats
    • Harold Stassen
    • NCAA D-I Stats Page
    • The Wizard Of Odds
  • General
    • Sports Central
  • Local Interest
    • The Ann Arbor Chronicle
    • Arborwiki
    • Arbor Update
    • Teeter Talk
    • Vacuum
  • Teams Of The D
    • Lions
      • Pride of Detroit
      • Fire Millen
    • Pistons
      • Detroit Bad Boys
      • Need4Sheed
    • Tigers
      • Roar Of The Tigers
      • The Detroit Tigers Weblog
      • The Daily Fungo
    • Red Wings
      • On The Wings
      • Behind The Jersey
      • Winging It In Motown
    • Michigan Sports Forum

Get Yer Tickets

Find the best US sports betting sites on the web at onlinebetting.com. Sports wagering is getting more and more popular each year, so place your bets online today.

Enjoy online gambling? Why not try online poker or online roulette? Especially online roulette for real money. If you are going to play poker, then make sure you use the PartyPoker bonus code or PokerStars marketing code when signing up to these two poker giants.

If you're looking for online sports betting, Sportsbooks is your best option. Nothing else compares in variety and reliability.

Football Display Case

NFL Watches

Follow your favorite team with localtv-satellite.com: Click Here.

Always better to play free blackjack and free Flash slots online before making a purchase on any real online casino.

Beveled Guilt

Site Search

Diaries

  • New
  • Popular
  • Hot
  • Michigan Hockey: Special Teams Breakdown
    Yesman2221 - 8 hours ago
  • Michigan Hockey: Miami Preview
    Yesman2221 - 3 days ago
  • Give Blood, Save Lives, Beat MSU
    M Wolve - 4 days ago
  • Opponent Watch: Basketball
    AC1997 - 6 days ago
  • The Blockhams in "TWITTER STALKER"
    Six Zero - 6 days ago
  •  
  • 1 of 7
  • ››
more
  • Big Ten Recruiting Rankings 2-5-12
    Ace - 4,828 views
  • The Blockhams in "TWITTER STALKER"
    Six Zero - 3,429 views
  • Opponent Watch: Basketball
    AC1997 - 1,159 views
  • Michigan Hockey: Miami Preview
    Yesman2221 - 771 views
  • Give Blood, Save Lives, Beat MSU
    M Wolve - 761 views
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more
  • Michigan State wallpaper
    Blue Indy - 35 comments
  • Big Ten Recruiting Rankings 2-5-12
    Ace - 27 comments
  • The Blockhams in "TWITTER STALKER"
    Six Zero - 22 comments
  • Diagramming the Powerplay
    Yesman2221 - 16 comments
  • Team Performance versus Scout Recruit Class Rank
    WolverineLake - 11 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more

MGoBoard

  • New
  • Recent
  • Hot
  • 2013 WR Travis Johnson: Would Michigan offer him?
    3 replies
  • B1G Hockey Post Season Site
    2 replies
  • Denard: 1st Maize Rage...now Yost
    14 replies
  • Sam Webb not so Cryptic Tweet
    74 replies
  • Hello: Sierra Lawrence (SB)
    4 replies
  • OT: "Bros vs. Hipsters" Video
    37 replies
  • AJ Williams Interview
    15 replies
  • Video: Mock Rock Preview and Ben Cronin Feature
    6 replies
  • Hello: Dan Gibbs
    89 replies
  • CFB Playoffs: Big Ten talks about campus-site semifinals
    26 replies
  • Hello: Khalid Hill
    82 replies
  • SI's Andy Staples Re-ranks 2009 Recruiting Classes
    46 replies
  • Hermann to Iowa as DC?
    32 replies
  • New Commit Watch?
    95 replies
  • Question about Michigan Hockey Sweaters
    3 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 15
  • ››
  • Sam Webb not so Cryptic Tweet
    74 replies
  • Hello: Khalid Hill
    82 replies
  • Hello: Dan Gibbs
    89 replies
  • Denard: 1st Maize Rage...now Yost
    14 replies
  • B1G Hockey Post Season Site
    2 replies
  • OT: "Bros vs. Hipsters" Video
    37 replies
  • 2013 WR Travis Johnson: Would Michigan offer him?
    3 replies
  • OT: "Imported From Detroit" Commercials
    85 replies
  • Hermann to Iowa as DC?
    32 replies
  • New Commit Watch?
    95 replies
  • CFB Playoffs: Big Ten talks about campus-site semifinals
    26 replies
  • AJ Williams Interview
    14 replies
  • OT: Do you let the Giants score? If so, when?
    62 replies
  • Video: Mock Rock Preview and Ben Cronin Feature
    6 replies
  • Hello: Sierra Lawrence (SB)
    4 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 15
  • ››
  • Michigan vs. Michigan State Basketball Open Thread
    510 replies
  • MBB vs. Indiana Open Thread
    327 replies
  • Sam Webb mentions possible surprise recruit
    292 replies
  • Hello: Dennis Norfleet
    272 replies
  • Jordan Diamond not to Michigan per Ondre Pipkins
    203 replies
  • Super Bowl Open Thread
    200 replies
  • Michigan - Miami(NTM) Hockey Open Thread (Also drinking, hoozah!)
    183 replies
  • Wednesday AM Big Recruiting News?
    181 replies
  • Jordan Diamond Announcement: To Auburn
    181 replies
  • Friday Night Hockey, Beer, and General Drunken Foolishness Thread
    156 replies
  • OT: Dantonio says MSU got top player in MI
    136 replies
  • Another signing day suprise may be on the way
    134 replies
  • If you were negative recruiting against Michigan today....what would you say?
    132 replies
  • The "Five of Diamond's" theory
    126 replies
  • Signed LOIs
    119 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 15
  • ››

mgo.licio.us

  • eBay Watch: Schembechler Snaps!!

    various images of Bo losing it

    0 comments
  • Manningham delivers in Giants' Super Bowl win

    Difference in the game was the receivers.

    0 comments
  • Gunfire to gridiron: Zoltan Mesko's Super Bowl story

    "I grew up in communism until I was three and a half years old, lived through a revolution, while bullets were flying through our apartment on Christmas Eve," Mesko, now 25, told reporters in Indianapolis, which is hosting the NFL's showpiece for the first time.

    0 comments
  • Ondre Pipkins already embracing rivalry with Ohio State

    They run their mouth, and then when they meet up with the belly of the beast -- I call myself that because I am -- then they want run away. When it comes to reality, they want to run away."

    1 comments
  • Ondre Pipkins is Brady Hoke's Next Intricately Rendered Sculpture in Ohio State's #1 Bathroom

    mgocatlab

    1 comments
  • 1996: Michigan-45 Michigan State-29 - YouTube

    WH

    0 comments
  • Hunwick named national player of the month

    on fiah

    1 comments
  • Big Ten: 'Legends' and 'Leaders' staying as league's division names for 2012

    just over half of people actually like them, which just goes to show that just over half of people need to be shot into the sun.

    4 comments
  • Career of 'constant change' puts David Baas in Super Bowl

    “It’s been crazy. Seriously, it’s my seventh year and seventh offensive coordinator."

    0 comments
  • The Victorious Sad Men Of The Every Super Bowl Club

    this is why playing Alabama in Jerryworld is a bad omen

    0 comments
  • The education of Patriots' Tom Brady

    Someone actually understands Brady's backstory.

    3 comments
  • Novak earns another academic honor

    inexplicably booed by awarding committee

    0 comments
  • Madonna tells NFL Network she wants daughter to go to Michigan

    yay?

    0 comments
  • 1,000 'Bleacher Report' Writers Descend On Super Bowl Media Day

    ""I asked Tom Bardy [sic] where he thought he should be on my list of the top 10 guys to ever play in the Super Bowl, and he said it didn't sound like I had anyone who played before 2005."

    3 comments
  • Recruiting analyst explains Mitch McGary's ranking slide

    "He's been rebounding well, but his offensive output and his ability to score (has been a concern)." GRIII well regarded, though.

    0 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 3
  • ››
more

Greg Robinson Re-Reviewed

By Brian — January 22nd, 2009 at 11:16 AM — 52 comments
Filed under:
  • coaching changes
  • greg robinson
  • what could possibly go wrong

On first glimpse the idea of hiring a man who says things like "it can maybe snowball into something that can catch fire" after he cratered a traditionally respectable-or-better program seems pretty dumb. I said so myself. But Rodriguez done did it anyway, so it's time to talk ourselves into it, or at least try to.

A Syracuse-oriented reader opines:

As a member of the Orange Nation, I can state that the Greg Robinson years were hard and lean.  In part, that was due to a growing talent deficit that Pasqualoni left behind.  Coach P's numbers look impressive until one takes into account the fact that SU went into a pretty serious decline after Donovan McNabb graduated.  He was running on empty by the time he left.
 
As for Robinson, his teams proved to be maddeningly inconsistent and just plain bad.  By all accounts, he was a decent guy.  His players never quit on him.  But he was not up to the head coaching task.  As a DC in the college game, he might be better judged by his last 2 years at SU (when, I think, he handled most of the defensive coordinator's job) and his 1 year at Texas.  SU's defense improved the past two years but was still pretty bad.
 
Would he fare better with others handling the recruiting and with a better talent pool at Michigan?  Probably.  Would he be much different from Jim Hermann or Ron English?  Who's to say?
 
Coming from the Big East, he and Rich Rod might have an affinity that would work at Michigan.  But that seems a pretty risky move for a team that just went 3-9 and had its worst defensive season in program history. . . .

As noted in the above-linked MGoBlog post, Robinson's last two years at Syracuse were pretty atrocious, and the evidence from his brief Texas posting (via Varsity Blue) does not suggest competence above and beyond:

Texas
Year Total D Rush D Pass D Scoring D
2003 25 9 58 6
2004 23 16 58 18
2005 10 33 8 8

That's about par for the course at a school that regularly out-talents all but one or two opponents a year. A couple commenters noted that my dismissal of his year at Texas was a bit harsh since a guy who turns in a really good defense when blessed with more talent than his competition is likely to find it nice and comfy at Michigan.

Point taken. Texas fans seem to remember Robinson fondly, at least. Various posts in highly positive thread on Hornfans:

He is a good guy and a good pick-up for UM. … I thought he improved our D when he was here.  … Good hire. Our D definitely improved while he was here, and no doubt he was helped a lot by Tomey. I loved Robinson's sideline demeanor. That. as much as anything else, reminded me how great it is to have fired up coaches roaming the sidelines. … I think he will do a great job at Michigan.

Also Texas coaches and players. Angelique gets fawning quotes from Mack Brown…

"They're (U-M) getting one of the best defensive coordinators in the country," Texas coach Mack Brown said. "Greg's a high-energy, creative, hard-working guy who has had success at both the NFL and collegiate levels. He's a veteran coach with a wealth of knowledge who the players really respond to."

…and Derrick Johnson, Texas' horrifying, bolo-punching linebacker demon from that 2004 team:

"He's a players' coach who is very patient with his players and works well with everyone," Johnson said. "He knows how to get his point across about what he expects and has you prepared for everything on game day. ... He was great for Texas."

HOWEVA, the defense Robinson inherited was pretty good and he held it at that level for a year. He didn't build anything up or (probably) have to coach anything up and that data point seems less relevant than the three disastrous years at Kansas City that preceded it or the four disastrous ones at Syracuse that followed it. Longtime college DC Carl Reese preceded Robinson and this guy followed him…

gene-chizik-yo

…suffice it to say that being Texas' defensive coordinator isn't the hardest job in the world. (Side note: Texas had better hope like hell the current guy is a bit better in the head job than the two men who preceded him.)

This table, on the other hand, was totally omitted from the first go-round on Robinson:

Denver Broncos
Year Total D Rush D Pass D Scoring D
1995 15 23 9 17
1996 4 1 10 7
1997 5 16 5 7
1998 11 3 26 9
1999 7 19 8 11
2000 24 7 31 23

After a ramp-up year that's (almost) four consecutive years in the top ten in total defense in the NFL. At the very least that indicates some level of competence.

So… what do we have? A guy who performs with talent and doesn't without it. Yeah, Greg Robinson and every other coach on the planet. This causes Orson Swindle, writing as someone named "Spencer Hall," to muse on fate at TSN:

Greg Robinson, fired Kansas City defensive coordinator, former Texas coordinator, and complete failure of a head coach at Syracuse, is firmly at fate's mercy now: he's the new defensive coordinator at Michigan, a move that has some Michigan fans near seppuku and others merely sighing and shrugging their shoulders. It would be very, very easy to pronounce this as a stillborn HR move from the start, a mistake taking a flyer on a guy who while good when surrounded by obvious, glaring talent -- see his successful stint in 2004 at Texas -- can be very, very bad, as anyone who saw his work at Syracuse can attest.

The whole fate thing weighs heavily on any Michigan fan contemplating Mallett or Pryor or the circumstances that led to David Cone being one of two scholarship quarterbacks on the roster. If Rodriguez had walked into a viable dual-threat quarterback, or even just a viable single-threat one, his still toddling regime at Michigan would be far less precarious. Michigan's hope here is that Robinson was a product of his circumstances, and while he may be very, very poor at assembling advantageous circumstances for himself that won't be a problem where the four-stars flow in from the sea.

Orson, for his part, says that Michigan's "considerable talent on defense"—er?—combines with the mediocrity of the Big Ten and provides "good odds for a happy outcome." I'm less certain, but since I have a good friend who hired that guy on a coin above I'm very familiar with the process that gets you to "hey, this isn't so bad!"

  • Login or register to post comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:39 AM | Big game test (Score:1)
PA Blue
PA Blue's picture
Joined: 12/18/2008
MGoPoints: 55

Since Robinson's best results are when he coached where there is talent (Texas) and Brian correctly points out they simply out-talent most teams, isn't it relevant to ask how those teams did in big games. To this point, I believe Robinson has a perfect record in "bowls" (including super bowls and college bowls). Doesn't that indicate a certain level of competence beyond being a "caretaker" since you don't simply out-talent your opponent in those games. You actually have to stop them. And he did.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:56 AM | It's hard to draw any (Score:0)
chitownblue (not verified)

It's hard to draw any conclusions based on the performance in three games (2 super bowls, 1 Rose Bowl).

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:49 PM | I thought he won four Rose (Score:1)
TIMMMAAY
TIMMMAAY's picture
Joined: 09/08/2008
MGoPoints: 5011

I thought he won four Rose Bowl's.?

not just "douchey" MGoBlog user, but now TRUSTED MGoBlog user

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:51 PM | I didn't include position (Score:0)
chitownblue (not verified)

I didn't include position coach time.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:41 AM | Chip on his shoulder (Score:1)
BeantownBlue
BeantownBlue's picture
Joined: 08/25/2008
MGoPoints: 502

Though not initially thrilled with this hire, I'm now cautiously optimistic. Given that we don't throw $1million+ at coordinators (thus eliminating Holt-esque types), it seems the next best thing to do is to hire a former superstar whose chips are down. Surely GR has a chip on his shoulder and wants to improve his reputation after the past four years. That certainly plays to our advantage.

Like Joe Dumars assembling a bunch of guys with something to prove (Rip, Chauncy, Tay, Sheed, Ben Wallace) and watching them fight for a championship in 2003, hiring GR may be the best move RR has made yet.

P.S. Brian, did you say you KNOW the guy who MADE the hire of Chizik? I know you went down to the Auburn game earlier this year. I didn't know you were hangin' with the AD.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:48 AM | really isn't so bad (Score:1)
Erik_in_Dayton
Erik_in_Dayton's picture
Joined: 12/03/2008
MGoPoints: 3836

I'm not on a Robinson-is-obviously-great bandwagon, but I think Brian is dimissing his Broncos resume a little too quickly. Four consecutive years in the NFL's top ten defenses with a team that had very good but certainly not great defensive talent is more than just a sign of some level of competence...I also think we can't underestimate the fact that Rodriguez coached against Robinson for a few years. I imagine you learn a lot about a guy when you've had to break down film and scheme against him. I also imagine Rodriguez must think Robinson is good against the spread, which is, after all, the offense run by more than half of U of M's schedule at this point.

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:47 AM | Robinson as DC with NY Jets (Score:1)
markusr2007
markusr2007's picture
Joined: 10/21/2008
MGoPoints: 2707

Brian,
I'm glad you noted the Denver Broncos defensive stats under Robinson. Those were impressive, but those teams were abso-freaking-lutely loaded with great secondary and DL talent.

Less apparent but more impressive are Robinson's stats with the pathetic New York Jets under Bruce Coslett and for one year with Pete Carroll.

Between 1990 and 1994 the jets were an awful NFL football team. But defensively they could have faired a lot worse.
It would appear statistically that for 3 of 5 years the NY defense made of "paper airplane" talent actually played like jets on the gridiron (1991, 1992 and 1993.

Robinson's efforts placed the NY Jet's scoring defense at or above the league average. And anyone that followed the Jets during this painful period knows that they didn't have anybody.

1990: 23rd out of 28 teams ypg surrendered, 17th in scoring defense with 22 pts./game (Coslett)

1991: 12th out of 28 teams ypg surrendered, 10th in scoring defense with 18 pts/game (Coslett)

1992: 16th out of 28 teams ypg surrendered, 18th in scoring defense with 20 pts/game (Coslett)

1993: 8th out of 28 teams in ypg surrendered, 6th in scoring defense with 15 pts/game (Coslett)

1994: 22nd out of 28 teams in ypg surrendered, tied for 14th in scoring defense with 20 pts/game (Carroll)

This all makes Robinson's efforts at Syracuse, a team damned with painfully average recruiting classes somewhat inexplicable:

Syracuse Recruiting Classes under Robinson:

2005: 49th
2006: 51st
2007: 46th
2008: 50th

Given past experience, one might deduce that Robinson should have done better at SU with average talent.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:26 PM | Robinson's epic failure at SU... (Score:1)
CipASonic
Joined: 01/07/2009
MGoPoints: 150

During his epic failure at SU, he was the Head Coach, not the DC. That could explain why he didn't do as good as you might expect. Just to throw this out there, some other people who were miserable failures at HC, but at least halfway decent coordinators:
Marty Mornhinweg
Ted Roof

A guy can hope, right?

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:32 PM | also: (Score:1)
matty blue
matty blue's picture
Joined: 08/01/2008
MGoPoints: 235

cam cameron
buddy ryan
joe bugel

i would also include norv turner in that list - spectacular coordinator, mediocre-to-bad head coach.

some guys are just better suited to be coordinators and / or position coaches.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:49 AM | So here's the obvious (Score:1)
Nate-Dawg
Nate-Dawg's picture
Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 20

So here's the obvious question:

Is he inheriting "talent" on MIchigan's defense next year?

I miss Keith Jackson.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:57 AM | Summary: He might not suck as (Score:1)
Meeechigan Dan
Meeechigan Dan's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2319

Summary: He might not suck as galacticly bad as he has sucked in recent history.

That fires me up!

That said, I think RR wanted a DC Emeritus: someone not to recruit or propose schemes, but to teach tackling, get along with his stud recruiting staff, and implement the scheme RR wants without fuss. He should be able to do that.

"Fear. Columbus is rank with it. Let us ease their pain."

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:57 AM | Experience (Score:1)
Onas
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 252

Look at it this way, Robinson has 38 years coaching experience, 14 as a DC, he's been a BCS DI head coach, reportedly gets along really well with colleagues, and has two Super Bowl rings (which few coaches earn by accident). And now he wants to be our DC? It's not a sexy pick, but I'll take it.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:26 PM | I think the real question (Score:1)
Meeechigan Dan
Meeechigan Dan's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2319

I think the real question here is what is RR's thought process on the defense. It appeared that Shafer had some free rein that was at odds with the assistants and all that came to a head during Purdue week. RR may be firm now in what he wants on defense and just needs a figurehead to manage all that, someone who won't go leave and knows the basics.

If RR is clear and firm on his defensive ideas, this would be an OK hire. If RR wants GR to be the idea guy on defense, we're screwed because no one who has been as bad at football as GR has at different times in his past has good ideas.

"Fear. Columbus is rank with it. Let us ease their pain."

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:47 PM | I'm shocked that you think a DC who's won two SuperBowls, etc, (Score:1)
jBdub
Joined: 10/23/2008
MGoPoints: 111

is being brought in here to just be a 'yes' man whose job is simply not to screw anything up. Why don't you just say you think he's a complete idiot?

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:10 PM | "If RR wants GR to be the (Score:1)
DoubleB
Joined: 11/19/2008
MGoPoints: 98

"If RR wants GR to be the idea guy on defense, we're screwed because no one who has been as bad at football as GR has at different times in his past has good ideas."

Easily one of the more ignorant comments I've seen on this site.

The Syracuse situation is completely overblown. He came in at a terrible time when the program was already beginning a freefall and couldn't turn it around. Pasqualoni (very underrated as a coach) was able to take advantage of the situation in the Northeast in the late 80s and 90s (BC was mostly poor, there was no Rutgers of note, UConn wasn't D-IA yet) and build a top 20 program there for 10+ years or so. At the end of his tenure all those things had changed and competition for recruits became a lot harder (BC had become consistently good, Rutgers was and is now keeping NJ recruits at home, UConn's getting their fair share of guys). There aren't enough BCS level players to support even 1 program in the Northeast (NY and New England) much less 3. Robinson came in and simply didn't have the capability to turn things around.

There isn't anybody that's commented on here that thinks he doesn't know what he's doing as a defensive coordinator. His schemes were lauded by other Big East coaches and former players have talked highly of him as a defensive coach. Even after his Syracuse tenure he just got the job as the DC at Michigan which means somebody (in a position to know much more than anybody here) still respects his ability on that side of the ball.

This hire may not work out for a variety of reasons, but to presume that Greg Robinson can't come in to a top 20 program (last year notwithstanding) and add value as a defensive coordinator is laughable.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:43 PM | All right (Score:1)
Other Andrew
Other Andrew's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 195

You're kinda convincing me, Onas. Also, I think he probably has the urge to reprove himself after the Syracuse debacle. So that gives me just a bit of hope, too. But I'm not psyched or anything.

Road Games is another blog

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:59 AM | Syracuse-oriented reader (Score:1)
Garvie Craw
Garvie Craw's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 203

Syracuse-oriented reader sounds like Jim Carty.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:51 PM | Adjustments (Score:1)
BlueNote
Joined: 08/07/2008
MGoPoints: 1033

The one long, positive article somebody linked to a couple days ago mentioned that Robinson's defenses boast an amazing scoring defense in the third quarter - meaning that he knows how to make adjustments. Do others agree that the third quarter scoring defense stat can help us separate the quality of the coach from the quality of the players he's coaching?

“We accept reality so readily, perhaps because we sense that nothing is real.” 

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:55 PM | No. Not at all. (Score:0)
chitownblue (not verified)

No. Not at all.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:35 PM | Missed out on Trgovac (Score:1)
DocV8
DocV8's picture
Joined: 09/29/2008
MGoPoints: 0

ESPN is reporting today that Mike Trgovac is leaving as D-coordinator of the Carolina Panthers. Guess we missed out on a chance at bringing him back to Ann Arbor by a couple days.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:37 PM | ah, yes - mike trgovac (Score:1)
matty blue
matty blue's picture
Joined: 08/01/2008
MGoPoints: 235

the great unknown genius of the head coach search, now the great white whale of the defensive coordinator search.

i find the whole "mike trgovac for _________" conversation fascinating, i have to say. i'm not sure what the attraction is, other than the fact that he's an alum (which is admittedly a big deal to me). has he been mentioned for other jobs? is there a great clamor for him anywhere but ann arbor? i just don't get it.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:38 PM | well said doubleB (Score:1)
J. Lichty
J. Lichty's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 1079

my problem (if I have one) with the hire is not Robinson's ability, but rather the public perception that RR can afford to take.

After a year of taking a pummeling in the media and from some of the fan base, RR is not in the best position to take someone with such recent epic fail on his resume - regardless of whether Robinson is qualified or not.

On the merits of the decision, I have no problem with the hire. Look at Tony Dungy with the Vikings and then with Tampa where his defenses were way better, but where the defense ebbed and flowed in Indy while he was there.

I am far more worried about our personnel than I am about Greg Robinson. I think this defense is two years away from being decent. I am hoping for league average next year, but this will be a young squad.

our package is our package, and it’s pretty big. - Greg Mattison, Bowl Practice Presser Tr. 12-13-11.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:39 PM | Perception wise, there is no (Score:0)
chitownblue (not verified)

Perception wise, there is no problem - the media is very positive on the hire.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:55 PM | But the fanbase is not. And (Score:1)
Meeechigan Dan
Meeechigan Dan's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2319

But the fanbase is not. And the media is largely irrelevant. This needed to be, if not an exciting hire, a solid one. A encouraging one. Not a shaky one.

We are all shambling forward, still in shock that the University of Michigan sucked at football last year, blindly and sometimes irrationally hoping that the RR hire was not a mistake. That we are not going to turn into Miami or Nebraska - a once great program desperate to find the right leader.

Against this backdrop, RR needed more than a mind-bogglingly horrid coach over the last three years.

"Fear. Columbus is rank with it. Let us ease their pain."

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:57 PM | 85% of the fanbase doesn't (Score:0)
chitownblue (not verified)

85% of the fanbase doesn't know who Greg Robinson or Scott Shafer are. If the media is positive, they will be too.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:20 PM | Nonsense. That's not the (Score:1)
Meeechigan Dan
Meeechigan Dan's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2319

Nonsense. That's not the fanbase I talk to. Every Michigan fan here in Ohio has been a buzz about the GR hire.

"Fear. Columbus is rank with it. Let us ease their pain."

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:25 PM | What are they saying? That (Score:1)
WolvinLA
WolvinLA's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 869

What are they saying? That he was a bad Head Coach? They want him to be good at a job he wasn't hired to do? Or do they really think he's going to be a bad DC? Do they know anything about him before Cuse? What do you say in his defense, if anything? I feel like you are just complaining to complain.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:48 PM | They are saying, "WTF?" I (Score:1)
Meeechigan Dan
Meeechigan Dan's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2319

They are saying, "WTF?"

I have said, repeatedly, that as a DC Emeritus (no recruiting, no scheme responsibility, teach tackling and keep the stud assts happy) he is adequate. As a DC mind, he is a disaster. Depends on what RR wants.

"Fear. Columbus is rank with it. Let us ease their pain."

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:30 PM | Disaster, huh? You must know (Score:1)
WolvinLA
WolvinLA's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 869

Disaster, huh? You must know a lot more about this than me.

Or a lot less.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:43 PM | greg robinson is... (Score:1)
matty blue
matty blue's picture
Joined: 08/01/2008
MGoPoints: 235

...the very definition of a solid hire to anyone but message board loonies. long, successful career, success at multiple locations, experience in college and the pros, etc.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:35 PM | how can you go along (Score:1)
drewsharp64
drewsharp64's picture
Joined: 11/17/2008
MGoPoints: 0

how can you go along supporting what the media is saying now, when back in novermber everyone here was bashing on what the media had to say when they were ripping on rr?

you cant use the media perception when it is in sync with your point then turn around and denegrate it when you're in disagreement...

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:24 PM | I'm not saying the media (Score:0)
chitownblue (not verified)

I'm not saying the media viewpoint is correct. I'm merely noting what it is.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:41 PM | Yep, just missed out on Trgovac. (Score:1)
foots
foots's picture
Joined: 01/07/2009
MGoPoints: 2

By my calculations we just missed by about $700,000

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:51 PM | You're most likely right (Score:1)
DocV8
DocV8's picture
Joined: 09/29/2008
MGoPoints: 0

Prob'ly true, but every once in a while, money and prestige take a back seat to geography, family happiness, or whatever other "personal issues" may be in play for these high-profile guys. GR himself went from the pros back to the college game.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:45 PM | I would suggest that Michigan's 27% (Score:1)
markusr2007
markusr2007's picture
Joined: 10/21/2008
MGoPoints: 2707

success rate on 3rd down offensively in 2008 had a lot more to do with Michigan's scoring defensive statistics in the 3rd quarter, and every quarter for that matter. I don't care how Barwisized the defense was or was not.

Tack on a complete and utter failure to just cover receivers and prevent the big play.

Just a theory. I might be wrong.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:03 PM | Why do you question that we (Score:1)
Magnus
Magnus's picture
Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 21558

Why do you question that we might have talent on defense?

D-line: 3-star Van Bergen, 4-star Martin, 5-star Campbell, 5-star Graham

LB: 4-star Mouton, 3-star Ezeh, 4-star Fitzgerald

DB: 4-star Cissoko, 5-star Warren, 4-star Williams, 4-star Brown

That's an average of 4.1 stars. There's talent. It's just young, inexperienced, or...well...underperforming in Brown's case.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: February 3, 2012

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:11 PM | You're not considering (Score:1)
evenyoubrutus
evenyoubrutus's picture
Joined: 11/04/2008
MGoPoints: 3757

position-switches. People tend to forget that part a lot. Ezeh was a 3 (or 2) star FULLBACK, and he really was a fullback who redshirted his freshman year to try and make the switch. Mouton was a 4-star SAFETY, and he really was a safety, who probably started way too early as well.

Also, some 4-star, and 5-star guys for that matter, are just completely and utterly overrated. Even the college scouts who recruit them completely miss the mark (Prescott Burgess, for example). As you correctly asserted, Stevie Brown would be one of these.

Yo: Not that I loved Rodriguez less, but that I loved Michigan more.

Yo: RAVEN - Remember Affect Verb Effect Noun

  • Login or register to post comments
January 23rd, 2009 at 5:52 AM | It's not that these stars (Score:1)
Magnus
Magnus's picture
Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 21558

It's not that these stars should stand alone. It's that, whether a guy stays at strong safety or moves to OLB (two pretty similar positions), he has talent. If you're moving a guy from cornerback to left tackle, you can throw those ratings out of the window. But if he's moving from DE to DT or CB to S, it's not like the scouting reports are suddenly worthless.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: February 3, 2012

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:20 PM | Agreed. Michigan has more (Score:1)
brown
Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 60

Agreed. Michigan has more talent on D than pretty much everyone except OSU. Can't use that as an excuse.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:07 PM | Mack Brown (Score:1)
evenyoubrutus
evenyoubrutus's picture
Joined: 11/04/2008
MGoPoints: 3757

I'm not really sure if I'd consider it a comfort to know that Mack Brown is impressed with someone's coaching ability, but at least we know that this guy has the CAPABILITY of achieving success. And thanks for reiterating that even though his 'success was only achieved with great players and talent blah blah blah' that yes, he will have talent at Michigan, so - so what?

Yo: Not that I loved Rodriguez less, but that I loved Michigan more.

Yo: RAVEN - Remember Affect Verb Effect Noun

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:12 PM | Mack Brown is 115-26 at Texas (Score:0)
chitownblue (not verified)

Mack Brown is 115-26 at Texas in the past ten years. Why do people talk like he's a borderline retard?

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:43 PM | His record at UNC is really equally impressive. (Score:1)
Blue Durham
Blue Durham's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 774

Took over a totally moribund team, had 1-10 records his first two years, and ended up with a 69-46 record there, including 5 straight bowls (3-2).

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:20 PM | Predictions and Speculations (Score:1)
NateUsMc
NateUsMc's picture
Joined: 08/28/2008
MGoPoints: 2367

We can Speculate all we want. Truth is that we won't know until Michigans unit takes the field.....and then a year after when Stevie Brown no longer wears the Michigan uniform.

2013 the year Michigan wins........well, everything!

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:43 PM | Tim Jamison (Score:1)
a2bluefan
a2bluefan's picture
Joined: 12/29/2008
MGoPoints: 1690

Tim Jamison had this to say at the Senior Bowl:

""We had a new coaching staff for my senior year. The old staff taught us to shoot out our hips first and use our hands and our step was second. Our new coaching staff taught us to step first,'' Jamison said."

Anemic offense notwithstanding, my biggest beef about the 2008 debacle of a season was lack of executing fundamental skills on defense. Read between the lines of Jamison's quote, and you could easily add on..."and they didn't know what the fuck they were doing."

Here's hoping that GR does, and can get the staff to agree.

I automatically downvote "B1G"
  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:55 PM | ? (Score:1)
Erik_in_Dayton
Erik_in_Dayton's picture
Joined: 12/03/2008
MGoPoints: 3836

Read between the lines of Jamison's quote, and you could easily add on..."and they didn't know what the fuck they were doing."

Do we really know that? I ask that as a real question, not a rhetorical one. I can't remember enough to say if the old staff was right of if the new one was (or if there is no right or wrong).

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:17 PM | perhaps... (Score:1)
a2bluefan
a2bluefan's picture
Joined: 12/29/2008
MGoPoints: 1690

The article I got this from indicated that all at the Senior Bowl were impressed with Jamison's physical ability, but that his fundamentals were not as strong as other players. Here's the link:
http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2009/01/michigans_tim_jamison_hopes...

And Kowalski indicates that this was largely due to the change in coaching philosophy. Not that we should take Kowalski's word as gospel, mind you. :)

My 2 cents worth is just that. Clearly the defense was better in 2007 than in 2008. I was just kinda putting 2 and 2 together when I read this article and TJ's quote.

JS

I automatically downvote "B1G"
  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:29 PM | chitown... before gr was (Score:1)
drewsharp64
drewsharp64's picture
Joined: 11/17/2008
MGoPoints: 0

chitown...

before gr was hired we had a little rift over whether or not this process was bungled from the start. i belive you said i didnt know what was going on behind the scenes, and that i was "ignorant" about the situation but that if gr was hired you wouldnt be too pleased.

so are you going to man up and stick by your word? or are you going to follow along with what has become a shockin trend on this site, that if rr hired this guy it must be the right decision...

  • Login or register to post comments
January 23rd, 2009 at 9:16 AM | Shocking Trend? (Score:1)
akblue
akblue's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 303

"follow along with what has become a shockin trend on this site"

What is shocking? Disagreement? That some fans are willing to support the team by giving the new DC the benefit of the doubt?

Is the glass half full or half empty?

  • Login or register to post comments
January 23rd, 2009 at 10:16 AM | Did you read the giant diary (Score:0)
chitownblue (not verified)

Did you read the giant diary I wrote about how I think Robinson is a bad hire?

I'll say it again - I find him utterly mediocre. If we recruit talent, and teach better fundamentals than we had last year, I still think we can win. That's not an endorsement of Robinson - any coach in the conversation can win if they have good players.

  • Login or register to post comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:00 PM | I have to trust Coach Rod's judgement- (Score:1)
Blue Balls
Blue Balls's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 99

that He better than I, knows what's best for Michigan Football. Being able to make the right choice and not always the popular choice is in part what defines a true leader. As a Michigan Fan, I was not happy with this hire but in Coach Rod I trust!

  • Login or register to post comments
  • 1
  • 2
  • next ›
  • last »
Powered by Drupal, an open source content management system
Theme provided by Roopletheme; sidebars adapted from Chris Murphy.