Ghosts Of Gergmas Past Comment Count

Brian

11/28/2015 – Michigan 42, Ohio State 13 – 9-3, 6-2 Big Ten

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[Bryan Fuller]

I did not make a list of the things I was hoping to avoid thinking on Saturday, but if I had "This reminds me of Greg Robinson" would have been near the top of the list. It probably doesn't beat out "I hope I can find that limb again" or "so that's what a velociraptor looks like", but it's a close thing.

But there I was, watching 225-pound James Ross line up just behind a nose tackle and thinking about Kenny Demens. Poor damn Kenny Demens.

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The last time Michigan installed a 3-3-5 on short notice that didn't look like the way other teams run a 3-3-5 it looked like that. Michigan gave up 41 points on just nine drives to Matt McGloin. I'm sure someone has run this at some point in the history of football and had it work, but I'm still at a loss to explain how that might happen. Whenever it's raised its head at Michigan it's been a debacle.

This was a debacle.

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The 3-3-5 wasn't a constant and may have been a misguided attempt to save the DL's legs since they had been whittled down to the starters over the course of the year, but as potential game-changing responses to the Ohio State approach to footballin' go… well, it did change the game.

Michigan did need to have something in their back pocket. I spent big chunks of the preview speculating about what might happen if and when Michigan was forced to abandon the defense it has played for much of the season. Playing man coverage with a deep safety against a team with a heavy QB run game and a superior tailback is only viable if you can win one-on-one battles up front.

Michigan has won those all year, but when Ryan Glasgow got knocked out of the lineup, Indiana exposed the remaining guys with tempo and a bunch of stretch plays, but they were still individually dominant against inside zone. Ohio State runs a lot of inside zone. Michigan got ripped on it.

Since OSU uses their quarterback as a runner extensively, Michigan spent most of he day with one fewer guy in the box than Ohio State had blockers. Often they lined up with one DL between Ohio State's tackles. After a reasonable start they got gashed towards the end of the first half, just in time for adjustments.

There were no adjustments. Michigan got its face caved in. When Michigan put three DL out there they got locked on the field; when OSU faced a third and short they went tempo and ran inside zone. Michigan had no response for this OSU tactic that dates back to the dawn of the Urban Meyer era.

The overall narrative of this season is still a highly encouraging one, but here Michigan has a choice: wake up like OSU did after their own debacle a week ago, or keep showing up in the most important game of the year completely incapable of holding the opposition under 300 yards a game.

DJ Durkin is indeed a promising defensive coordinator but the failure to respond when Indiana was ripping Michigan late and during this entire game should have us pumping our brakes on just how good he is. This is a punch in the mouth. We'll have to wait a year before a response, if Durkin hasn't already left town for a head job elsewhere.

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But hey, we're disappointed about 9-3 that isn't 10-2 because of a galactically unlikely outcome at the end of the Michigan State game. Since 99% of Michigan fans predicted 8-4 or worse, that's something. Turning Jake Rudock into a killer quarterback is something. Three consecutive shutouts are something, and Michigan goes into the offseason with a lot of anger to fuel improvement.

Forward, and never look back at this one.

AWARDS

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[Fuller]

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Known Friends And Trusted Agents Of The Week

you're the man now, dog

#1 Jehu Chesson had 111 receiving yards and Michigan's touchdown on a series of catches ranging routine to excellent. Darboh struggled to get separation; Chesson was generally open. That's a great sign for his ability to shake anybody and hopefully presages a big-time senior year.

#2 Jake Rudock completed his incredible in-season turnaround with an 8.2 YPA day against one of the best pass defenses in the country, and that was without a whole lot of help after the catch. Rudock placed a  bunch of throws just in front of the safeties, didn't throw anything approximating an interception, and dealt with a lot of pressure heroically. Just a stunning reversal, and a tribute to Harbaugh's QB coaching ability.

#3 Jake Butt caught five passes and further separated himself from the Big Ten tight end pack; he has still dropped just one vaguely reasonable pass all year. You might notice that all of these things are related to Michigan's passing battery, because that was the only good bit from the game.

Honorable mention: the refs for not calling holding a half-dozen times against whoever was trying to block Bosa. Peppers, I suppose.

KFaTAotW Standings.

10: Jake Rudock (#3 Northwestern, #1 Rutgers, #1 Indiana, #3 Penn State, #2 OSU)
9: Jourdan Lewis (#1 UNLV, #1 Northwestern, #1 MSU), Jabrill Peppers(#2 BYU, #2 Northwestern, #2 MSU, #1 Minnesota)
8: Chris Wormley(#2 Utah, #1 Oregon State, #3 Rutgers, #2 Penn State)
6: Jake Butt(#1 Utah, #2 Rutgers, #3 OSU)
5: Jehu Chesson(#2 Indiana, #1 OSU)
4: Maurice Hurst (#2 Maryland, #2 Minnesota),
3: De'Veon Smith(#2 Oregon State, #3 BYU), Ryan Glasgow (#1 BYU), Desmond Morgan (#1 Maryland), Amara Darboh(#1 PSU)
2: Ty Isaac(#2 UNLV), Willie Henry(#3 Utah, #3 MSU), 1: AJ Williams (#3 Oregon State), Channing Stribling(#3 UNLV), Blake O'Neill(#3 Maryland), Drake Johnson(#3 Minnesota), Delano Hill(#3 Indiana).

Who's Got It Better Than Us Of The Week

This week's best thing ever.

Jehu Chesson scored a touchdown, so that was cool.

Honorable mention: Michigan was pretty competitive for 30 minutes.

WGIBTUs Past.

Utah: Crazy #buttdown.
Oregon State: #tacopunts.
UNLV: Ty Isaac's 76 yard touchdown.
BYU: De'Veon Smith's illicit teleporter run.
Maryland: Jehu Chesson jet sweeps past you.
Northwestern: Chesson opening KO TD.
MSU: the bit where they won until they didn't.
Minnesota: form a f-ing wall.
Rutgers: Peppers as Denard.
Indiana: Delano Hill seals it with a PBU.
PSU: Jourdan Lewis breaks their back on a kickoff.

imageMARCUS HALL EPIC DOUBLE BIRD OF THE WEEK.

This week's worst thing ever.

The second half.

Honorable mention: The first half.

PREVIOUS EDBs

Utah: circle route pick six.
Oregon State: Rudock fumbles after blitz bust.
UNLV: Rudock matches 2014 INT total in game 3.
BYU: BYU manages to get to triple digit yards in the last minutes of the game.
Maryland: Slog extended by deflected interception at Houma.
Northwestern: KLINSMANN OUT
MSU: Obvious.
Minnesota: The bit where the lost it until they didn't.
Rutgers: KO return given up.
Indiana: run run run run run run run run run run run run.
PSU: OSU's WHAT ARE THOOOOOOSE gameplan against MSU.
OSU: the second half

[After THE JUMP: Rudock exponential improvement path, box numbers, sad things.]

OFFENSE

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[Eric Upchurch]

Flipping the Luck switch. After most of a season during which Jake Rudock looked like the worst possible version of himself, he finished on an absolute tear. Overall, Rudock:

  • hit 64% his passes and threw for 7.7 YPA with a 17-9 TD-INT ratio,
  • finished in a dead heat with CJ Beathard (yep) for third-most efficient QB in the league*, behind only Sudfeld and Cook, and
  • piloted S&P+'s #15(!) passing offense.

That would have been unbelievable as late as the kickoff of the Indiana game. What happened? Everyone got better gradually in a new offense and Rudock got locked in once he had some time and space to do things. There are a lot of guys who improved drastically over the course of the season—Braden, Thomas, Williams, Charlton—but nobody more than Rudock.

That only confirms what we already knew about Jim Harbaugh: in addition to being one of the best head coaches around he has a claim to best QB coach in football. I can't wait to see what he does with John O'Korn, who is a lot closer to Christian Hackenberg or Ryan Mallett than Rudock. O'Korn has all the physical talent in the world; he is erratic and, at times, completely bonkers.

He will test Harbaugh's ability to shape anyone into an effective QB, and the upside there is rather good.

*[Part-time starter Cardale Jones excluded.]

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[Upchurch]

O'Korn will have some dudes. Jake Butt hasn't given an indication as to his NFL draft intentions yet, and the NFL will be highly interested. But let's pretend he decides to come back for a second here.

O'Korn is now inheriting an established, excellent receiving corps. Chesson's development over the course of the season has taken him from Stonum to Breaston to maybe kind of Manningham; he promises to be a legit #1 receiver if he can maintain his level of performance over the last four games. Darboh provides some spectacular catches and a lot of possession grit; Butt is the best tight end in the country no matter what the Mackey committee says.

Michigan would like to add in a third wide receiver who can do slot things; I have faith that Grant Perry will be a lot better next year once he gets the offense down. There will also be the smattering of Peppers routes, hopefully against linebackers.

They hit that angle screen. De'Veon Smith ripped off a big gain before Michigan's touchdown on that same clever angle screen that almost worked against Michigan State but for a DL batting the ball down. It's a brilliant design on which everything looks like a normal pass play except for the center releasing to block the LB who has the running back in man coverage. Once that block is made, the tailback is sailing all the way to the safety level.

Timing is important: the RB has to be behind the LOS or the OL has to not hit the LB until the pass is complete. Michigan has been making sure the first is the case—or it's at least close enough that the flag doesn't come out.

Yes, Ohio State fans have a point about holding. You know that thing where fans of the opposition complain about the infinite missed holding calls in the aftermath of any game? 99% of the time these are ways to say "I do not understand what holding is." In the specific case of Ohio State fans and Joey Bosa, the bitching is justified. I was braced for flags on three or four different plays; none came.

The refs missed a couple of holding calls on Charlton, too, but I don't have many complaints after this one despite an obvious monster gaffe on the punt. (About that more in a bit.)

And despite that, he produced. Bosa's day according to PFF:

— Joey Bosa (DE, +8.3) was up to his usual tricks as he dominated the game as a pass rusher. Bosa came into the Week 13 matchup with a pass rushing productivity score of 15.8 (second in the nation). Thanks to nine total pressures on 35 pass rushing snaps, he had a score of 20.7 as the Buckeyes moved him around and no one on the Wolverines’ offensive line had an answer for him.

The sack on which Rudock was knocked out of the game came on a play where Michigan added Grant Newsome and moved Cole to right tackle. A one on one matchup with Bosa and an unfamiliar pass drop are a recipe for disaster.

But he was probably going to get his anyway. Michigan's tackles have struggled against top-tier pass rushers all year. Cole's performance in this game won't dissuade anyone (like yrs truly) who thinks he's destined to move to center next year. Michigan obviously thinks a lot of Grant Newsome, and Newsome has the physical attributes that you need to be an elite pass protector. Cole's had a very good year, but it doesn't seem like he's at that level.

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[Fuller]

Peppers as general offensive player. Michigan largely used Peppers as just a guy who plays offense. Above he's catching a crossing route on which he got matched up with a linebacker. Michigan also ran him a bunch. He was effective when given the opportunity to be effective; I think his role will expand slightly next year, but he's still critical to the defense.

Run game blah. I don't think anyone expected much here unless Peppers blew up; Michigan got as much as everyone expected. The line has been creating small gaps against poor defensive lines. Against a very good one they created little.

It was especially grating to see De'Veon Smith have to dodge unblocked guys at the line of scrimmage to get four yards when Michigan couldn't or wouldn't deliever similar run blitzes that would force Elliott into guys who had an advantage.

This generation of Michigan offensive linemen will culminate next year, when three of the starters from this year are seniors; Cole will be a junior. They should get better, but I'm not seeing an NFL player amongst them other than Cole.

DEFENSE

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[Fuller]

Welp. Steve Sharik compiled some numbers on the way OSU ran in this game that are illuminating:

I'm doing a rudimentary breakdown of run results vs. scheme. Basically comparing what happened defending the run when we played with adequate #s in the box vs. not. Gotten through first half and:

  • 13 runs vs. single deep safety, 11.15 ypc, median 6 yards per carry; 6 carries gained less than 5 yards, 3 of those were misreads that would've been significant gains
  • 4 runs against goal line D package
  • 2 runs vs. 2 safeties at most 10 yards deep, those went for -1 and 2 yards.

2nd half was even worse.

  • 18 runs vs. -1 in box, 8.78 ypc, median 9 ypc, only 2 of those runs went for less than 4 yards, and one of those was a misread
  • 9 runs vs. even numbers, 3.33 ypc, take out a 13 yard TD run by Barrett where an unblocked Ross whiffed, and it was 8 carries for 18 yards with one carry longer than 3 yards, and that was a 4 yard gain.

Ten OSU opponents did better than Michigan did against OSU's ground game (the exceptions are Indiana and… uh… Virginia Tech). That is not a talent issue, unless you think the rest of the season was a mirage.

If OSU had won this game by hitting the kind of deep passes they did a couple times, I could accept that. Those are low percentage shots and that's life. Michigan just paved them a yellow brick road.

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[Upchurch]

That said, woof on the linebackers. I haven't looked at the particulars yet—you will understand why—but the tackling in this game was generally repulsive. I don't know if the twitter legions yapping at Bolden were accurate or just engaging in confirmation bias, but it's clear that nobody was particularly good.

Again, I would caution that when the DL plays badly it often looks like the linebackers are screwing up when they're just trying to mitigate damage. I can't imagine there were a lot of inside zone plays featuring a three-man front with Ross trying to fill in gaps that weren't set up to make the linebackers look like rubes.

On the other hand, when you impact Ezekiel Elliott and get run through like you are a ghost that's bad. I can say that is bad.

But, again, tactics. I will go to my grave swearing that speed is about 15th on my list of traits it's important for a linebacker to have. The instances where they have to run flat out are minimal, and the stuff it buys you are mostly repairing problems when everything else goes wrong. (Lavonte David against Denard Robinson comes to mind.)

So. When Michigan got outflanked on the 66-yarder that started Michigan's long day the constant refrain about slow linebackers popped up. I don't think that is nearly as relevant as the fact that Ohio State motioned a tight end across their formation and Michigan's response was nothing. If they were aligned correctly to start they suddenly weren't, and Desmond Morgan got clubbed inside by a guy with a great angle to do so even if he was the fastest guy in the country. I just about lost my mind in the first half when Vannett would move and Michigan wouldn't move with him.

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yeesh [Fuller]

Clark touchdown ceded: just a thing. Clark may have to go apologize to the gypsy after this game, because the touchdown OSU hit on him featured Clark's hand right between Jalin Marshall's arms. 95% of the time that's an incompletion. The ball was right there and Marshall managed to bring it and good for them. I don't hold that against Clark at all.

In general, Clark's first season as a starting CB was highly encouraging. His stature didn't seem to negatively impact his ability to cover very much, and it came in handy frequently. He's still got to adapt to various nuances of the position but as experiments go it was an extremely successful one.

Lewis hit deep. The Lewis deep hit was less contested than Clark's. I thought it was a perfect throw that beats almost any coverage; I also thought Lewis wasn't in the kind of position he usually is. A demerit, probably, but a minor one.

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[Upchurch]

2016 safeties: still maybe not terrifying. PFF liked both of the guys who will be around next year. Dymonte Thomas and Delano Hill were 4th and 5th on their list of Michigan players who did well with grades of +1.6 and +1.8 respectively.

I can't say I thought anything was particularly bad on their part, which is nice. Michigan has very little behind them other than a couple second-year players (Tyree Kinnel and a moving Brian Cole) who haven't seen the field. That's the thinnest spot on the roster even considering linebacker.

SPECIAL TEAMS

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this is running into the kicker [Fuller]

Going after the punt. That went very badly. It shouldn't have gone that badly, as Michigan only made contact with the punter's kicking leg. That's a five yard penalty. An Ohio State player is the one who blew up the punter, hitting the plant leg. If the refs get that call right it's a small field position hit in exchange for a chance at a big play. I'm okay with that.

Punting on fourth and five from the 36. Given the way the game turned out that was obviously a bad move. At the time it was understandable since Blake O'Neill is good at that stuff and most people anticipated a defensive battle. Jehu Chesson failed to catch the ball on the fly—his only bad play of the day—and Michigan netted 16 yards; the punt was sufficient to get OSU inside the five.

If that had happened in the second half I'd be livid since by that point it's clear your game situation is not one in which field position means much. And even at the time I thought that Michigan was moving the ball pretty well and should have gone for it. It felt like one of those 55/45 decisions so whatever.

In retrospect, of course, it was closer to 90-10 but Harbaugh did not anticipate OSU going through the Michigan defense like Dino Babers escaping the Big Ten.

MISCELLANEOUS

Buckeye ethnography, part N. Submitted: no fanbase in the country is more likely to call their players by their first name. Everyone does this to some extent (see: Denard) but OSU fans seem to do it for everyone.

Not as grating as SEC fans' tendency to sycophantically abbreviate everyone as "Coach Blank Blank"—for example, Mark Richt was until recently "CMR" to the Georgia fanbase—but this tripped my Old Butthurt Sportswriter gene sometime in the second quarter.

Wifi might not be as important as sitting with your friends but it would be nice. I figured this would happen, but I spent the entire game trying and failing to get twitter updates until everyone started leaving. It would be nice if the athletic department actually did something to allow people who really want to have some wifi to have some wifi—I would welcome paying for such a thing, and once you charge people you don't have to support nearly as many of them.

HERE

Best and Worst:

Worst:  The Ghost of Fred Jackson Lingers

I said it above, but without Peppers this team doesn’t crack 40 yards on the ground running the ball, and the non-Rudock runners who got carries in this game are a (possibly) injured De’Veon Smith, a FB, and a guy who’s (again, probably) still recovering from the second ACL surgery of his college career.  Guys like Green and Isaac, expected to be contributors at the bare minimum this season, faded so far into the background that it’s hard to even make out their silhouettes.  You have to imagine there will be a shakeup in the RB corp, if for no other reason that Harbaugh will be inclined to give anyone new a chance to show they are better than the incumbents.  But after sorta-bludgeoning teams to start the year, the rushing offensefell off a cliff, and it hasn’t totally been due to breakdowns in the offensive line.  I mean, I know the competition took a step up once the conference slate kicked off, but to go from averaging 4.8 ypc the first six games to 3.25 ypc in the last half, and even that number is goosed by playing IU, is downright stupefying.

Inside The Box Score is pretty grim in lots of ways:

The week leading up to The Game saw Michigan fans unite around the tragedy of a family losing their 5 year old son to DIPG, an inoperable brain cancer. When I saw the picture of Chad's father holding his son's lifeless body, I cried. I am emotional just thinking about it now. When I hear about parents suffering the death of a child, two memories from my childhood return.

When I was in sixth grade, a girl in my gym class collapsed in the parking lot and died. She had a condition that we later started referring to as, "that Hank Gathers thing." It was so sudden. One day, she was pretending to be a horse, running around at recess, and the next day, her parents were dealing with the thought of burying their daughter. We dedicated our yearbook to her, tried to heal, and move on with the knowledge that life is fragile so you should treasure every day, every moment. I didn't know her very well, but even now, 33 years later, I can picture her galloping around the parking lot, full of life and energy.

ELSEWHERE

Holdin' The Rope:

Best case scenarios, worst case scenarios and something in the middle.

Worst case? Michigan was looking at something similar to last year, or maybe a little better: 5-7, 6-6, the Harbaugh effect setting in, but not so much to offset a lack of talent at a number of spots.

Best case? Well, you have just about close to what happened. If not for a once-in-a-generation-style loss against rival Michigan State, the Wolverines would have been 10-1 heading into the Ohio State game, with their destiny in their own hands in terms of a conference title game berth.

Sap's Decals:

OFFENSIVE CHAMPION – The Jehu Chesson that played against Ohio State was not the same #86 that played against Utah. This guys is night and day different from where he was at the beginning of the season. Jehu is confident, strong and clutch. Not exactly the words I would have used to describe his play in September. To go over 100 yards receiving against the Bucks and to score a touchdown is what we have come to expect from him.

Hoover Street Rag. Baumgardner:

One team's there. The other isn't. At least not yet, anyway.

And that's sort of the point, isn't it?

Michigan pushed itself ahead of schedule during Harbaugh's first season. This is a much tougher team mentally. The program now has an identity. It has a leader who can continue to force a culture and it now has a core group of veterans who know what it really means to work and prepare.

But if Saturday's 42-13 Ohio State drubbing proved anything, it's that Michigan's still rebuilding its football program.

The Citrus Bowl is on the table against LSU. That would probably require the loser of the Big Ten title game getting in a NY6 bowl. That is likely if MSU wins the Big Ten Title game. If Iowa wins bowls might prefer to invite a team that didn't just fail to sell out a game against Penn State to clinch the division. Either way, Florida vs an SEC team with an excellent defense and moribund offense is likely.

Comments

Hannibal.

November 30th, 2015 at 12:44 PM ^

The schedule is easier unless OSU pulls a massive rabbit out of their hat replacing half of their starting lineup.  It's not out of the question since they did it in 2014, but I would be suprised if it happens again.

The non-conference schedule is an official tomator can (Hawaii) plus two unofficial ones (Colorado and Central Florida). 

Hannibal.

November 30th, 2015 at 1:54 PM ^

I think that Meyer is 1 for 3 in the "huge immediate rebuild" department.  In 2007, his defense was pretty poor and they went 9-4.  In 2010, he had to do lots of rebuilding on both sides of the ball and the offense, in particular, sucked ass.  In 2014, he knocked it out of the park completely after one stumble in September.

So -- I dunno man.  I can't say with confidence what I think will happen in 2016, but I will say that when Urban's OSU career is over and done with, I doubt that it will be seen as one of his better teams.  I don't know if that means an unimpressive 10-2 or if that means 7-5. But I feel pretty confident in saying that 2016 is our best chance to win in Columbus for a long time looking back and a long time looking forward. 

buckeyejonross

November 30th, 2015 at 3:07 PM ^

I think 2007 Florida is a good comparasion. But I hesitate to judge Urban on the performances of his defenses. After all, he's not here to coach defense.

That 2007 Florida offense had a great running QB, a not great RB, and still hummed all year, despite only returning the LT and LG from the line. 2015 OSU will have a great running QB and Price and Elflein on the OL back, and a questiuon mark at RB (though Weber and Samuel should be fine, not 'Zeke, but fine). I still expect it to approximate OSU's present offensive pace.

Next season will hinge on the defense. Like 2007 Florida's did. I don't think Urban has much control on how that unit performs, outside of recruting its players.

schreibee

November 30th, 2015 at 1:36 PM ^

Oh, they'll "replace" the starters all right - it's just a matter of whether you guys think players like Bosa & Zeke are "generational" talents or just another guy?

We look at it like they're exceptional talents, and several of the other players who will or may leave are also better than anyone who might replace them.

We have to play msu & osu on the road in '16 - thanks to the B1G screw job of having us switch to play them both on the road the same season during realignment. So me personally, I'm expecting about the same record next year as this for Michigan.

But we improved as a TEAM throughout this season - the run D vs Indiana & osu obviously excepted. I expect a similar curve of improvement throughout the Bowl practices, spring, summer and next season.

Then hopefully we'll get some Bosa & Elliott types and presto - Rivalry Reborn!

MI Expat NY

November 30th, 2015 at 1:55 PM ^

I think you're kidding yourself a bit.  This is your most talented roster in quite a while.  I've seen NFL draft big boards with 5 buckeyes listed in the first round, and other websites with as many as 12 very likely to be drafted.  Nobody replaces that much talent and expects to be "around par" even at the end of the season.  You'll be good, but not the talent that should have had you guys poised to make a run at back to back championships.  

buckeyejonross

November 30th, 2015 at 2:22 PM ^

I don't disagree with the talent level of the roster. And I don't think a run at a national title is realstic next year. But OSU football has been pretty reliable in turning out replacement players. Even for super stars. Everyone freaked out about replacing Cam Heyward and Carlos Hyde too. Will anyone be 100% Bosa next year? No. Is 85% Bosa still all-B1G? Yes. Is it unrealstic to think Tyquan Lewis and Sam Hubbard and Joey Bosa's brother can all hover around 80% Bosa? Not really. OSU has been replacing talent with more talent for forever. Even if Bosa was exceptional for an average OSU starter, the average OSU starter is usually exceptional for the rest of the Big Ten anyway. Michigan will increase its talent level, surely, beat Ohio State again, surely, but even when OSU's talent dips from generational, history says it's going to only fall down to better than merely good.

MI Expat NY

November 30th, 2015 at 2:37 PM ^

And I don't think the comment you were replying to was implying that you're going to be a 6-6 patsy next year.  He was suggesting that the talent disparity between the two programs should be greatly reduced next year with how much talent you lose and how little talent we lose.  He thinks that makes The Game easier next year despite being on the road.  I agree with him.  

The tone of your response to his comment about "pulling a rabbit out of the hat" seemed to say that you thought you'd be just as talented next year as this year.  I see now that you're not that crazy.  

schreibee

November 30th, 2015 at 4:36 PM ^

There's no denying that ohio st enjoys an advantage probably only LSU has in NCAA football - being the only "Power 5" school in a talent rich state. Even Penn st has to share with Pitt - as one-sided as that rivalry has been through the years.

As a comparison, look how many teams have to share Fla, Texas, Cali -  Hell even INDIANA has 3!!! (counting ND even though they're not in a conference!)

So no one who supports Michigan ever expects osu to fall off a cliff or disappear. But from the time Bo was hired until the time Tressel was hired - and that's several generations of football talent there - M won more games, and dominated the series for longer stretches, than osu.

So with the right mix of coaching and recruiting it's possible to turn this into a very real rivalry again - and I don't mean in our hearts, where it never dies, but on the field!

We think we have the right man in place. Year 1 was a good step forward, despite how lousy we all felt about The Game outcome. Now, Bosa, Elliott, any others who might like to earn an "honest" living - head off to the NFL - as many as possible really! JH will have his men working and grinding. And we'll all be very grateful if we come up with a better game plan for the next Game!!!

buckeyejonross

November 30th, 2015 at 9:05 PM ^

OSU fans/blogs have at least acknowledged it was a possibility. I think the tepid response is because OSU didn't necessarily play great on defense last year until roughly the Wisconsin game. And furthermore, OSU's offense kinda runs the show and earns the hype in Columbus, the defense is often overlooked. This year, they've been out of their minds all year, and people only want to talk about the QBs and offensive struggles. Now, you'd think an AD would be paying attention, and they might be, but the national media wouldn't pick up on Ash as a candidate until far after everyone else.

los barcos

November 30th, 2015 at 12:35 PM ^

"That is not a talent issue, unless you think the rest of the season was a mirage."

Thank you brian for pointing this out.  After the game alot of people were talking about how we don't have the "talent" to hang with OSU yet.  I think thats lazy analysis.  We had the talent to go toe-to-toe with MSU and we have upperclass 4 and 5 stars starting at nearly every spot.  Maybe this is arguing semantics, but I certainly don't think "talent" is the issue and to argue that point obfuscates what I think was the real problem on Saturday - we have the talent, we just got outcoached.  

I thought this team would finish 10-2, so 9-3 with one top 25 victory and an 0-2 record against our rivals feels a bit dissapointing.  I would also argue that those predicting 8-4 have to be a bit dissapointed too if none of those 8 victories came against either MSU or OSU.  It was an OK year, no doubt, certainly better than any year in the past decade save 2011, but the way in which it ended will cast a negative light throughout the offseason.  

2016 will be huge for this program.  We have tons of returning talent that will be seniors, but we play our hardest two games on the road and break in a new QB. 

snowcrash

November 30th, 2015 at 12:46 PM ^

OSU will probably have about 10 guys drafted next year. We'll have 1 if Butt leaves. If our players are underperforming relative to their recruiting rankings, that may say something about player development under Hoke, but it isn't relevant to a discussion of whether we should have beaten OSU with these players this year. 

We were outcoached, but we don't have the talent to hang with OSU when they bring their A game. If we don't get outcoached, we probably lose 28-13.

MGoTexas

November 30th, 2015 at 2:49 PM ^

Even with a better defensive gameplan, MICHIGAN would have needed to play an A+ game from DL/LBs/DBs. Ohio State offense executed almost flawlessly. Chalk this game up as a L even if it were played 9 more times.

Hope they lose a bunch to the Draft. That will make next year's matchup much more even.

bronxblue

November 30th, 2015 at 12:49 PM ^

I'd like a full list of the 4 and 5* top talent UM trotting out that matches up with OSU's top talent? Just because a bunch of people thought the players were great leaving HS doesn't mean all that carries over forever. UM has talent, but OSU is still a significant step ahead right now.

bronxblue

November 30th, 2015 at 1:53 PM ^

I think that's more an indictment of OSU's coaching and preparation than talent.  When OSU cares, they can blow anyone out; they did it last year.  And I'm not saying the talent discrepancy had everything to do with the 30-point loss, but at a couple key spots OSU was significantly better than UM, and they exploited those weaknesses repeatedly and brutally.  

bronxblue

November 30th, 2015 at 1:59 PM ^

I think part of the issue isn't just talent but familiarity and maximum utility of that talent; UM is in the first year of a coaching change that shook up what they were doing compared to under Hoke; MSU was deep into the Dantonio renaissance when they started to compete with OSU.  And last week's game felt like a massive abberation; nobody has seen OSU play like that since Meyer arrived, and even he thought something was broken as witnessed by the fact he took over playcalling.  

And it is hard to admit, but looking at MSU vs. UM it sure looks like MSU has the better college talent right now, even with Cook out last week.   I mean, even with Cook out they had potential AA/conference 1st teamers at center (Allen), LT (Conklin), DE (Calhoun), WR (Burbridge), and DT (McDowell).  And most of those guys are upperclassmen who have come up through the system.  

Again, it isn't that the talent discrepancy is tremendous, but it was clear pretty early on that OSU was more talented than UM AND had a better gameplan, and that killed.

alum96

November 30th, 2015 at 4:56 PM ^

"And it is hard to admit, but looking at MSU vs. UM it sure looks like MSU has the better college talent right now, even with Cook out last week.  '

They finally broke Bronx...

p.s. you left out McDowell who right now may be the best DT in the conf ...which is high praise cons Washington Zettel Glasgow etc.  I think he goes top 12 next year in the draft. He is imploding interior OLs.

As to the OSU - I do think they wont just reload just because they lost so much high end talent but by Nov they will be damn good again.  But they will have a tough time with OK and a lot more games will be "in play" as they will be young.  Young but talented.  I just looked over OSUs 2013-2015 classes in depth and its f**king scary; its Bama level.

Brandywine

December 1st, 2015 at 12:21 AM ^

Precisely. It shouldn't be hard to admit at all - in fact it's clear as day - that MSU is more talented than UM. Talent isn't about recruiting stars, its about how the team plays on the field. Players in that program are consistently competing at a top 10 level. Ours, not so much. That is all you need to know about "talent level." MSU obviously isn't on par with OSU, but their roster is still more talented football than UM.

Hannibal.

November 30th, 2015 at 12:58 PM ^

Agree on the "talent" issue.  Does OSU have more talent?  Okay fine, they have more.  Do they have 29 more points talent?  Hell no.  If you accept that, then you are accepting at least three or four more consecutive losses, because that is how many years it takes to truly turn over talent at a program.

I'm not going to predict wins on the road against our rivals next year, but those are hard core "must win" games.  MSU is breaking in a new QB too, and OSU will breaking in maybe a dozen new starters.  Both of them are rebuilding or maybe in OSU's case, reloading.  2016 is the closes thing that we will ever see to a "down" Urban Meyer team.  If we can' beat them in Columbus next year, then we never will.   

schreibee

November 30th, 2015 at 1:59 PM ^

Didn't we say '14 was gonna be a "down" Meyer team after Braxton got hurt? How'd that turn out?

I think expecting to go into Columbus and win - ever - is a tough task. Go back to Bo and count the victories "down there"... a handful. But when we do, they are some of the biggest, most important victories in program history: '76, '86, '96 (and oh so Damn close in '06!)

So based on that timeline, maybe '16 IS the year to break this streak?! Depends on how many of their players bolt, and how good their replacements are. It's gonna be a year til we know, cuz if last Saturday reminded us of anything - it's that what they do vs other teams has NO bearing on how they'll perform vs M.

And in a year like '96 cited above, or '13 or '14 - how we'd performed previously had NO bearing on how we performed against them!

 

 

 

SpikeFan2016

November 30th, 2015 at 12:45 PM ^

9-3 was my expectation before the season. 

 

However, I was expecting that we would lose one game we shouldn't (Penn State and Minnesota were my preseason candidates for this) but also steal one against one of our rivals. And, honestly, I thought that we would lose to MSU and then beat OSU.

Highly, highly disappointing to lose to both. The MSU game will always haunt me because we shouldn't have lost and the OSU game will always haunt me because of how utterly horrifying the second half was. 

 

Going into the OSU game, I was ready to label this season as an "A" grade, no matter if we lost. I didn't even think it was possible that we would be slaughtered.

 

Now I have to give the season a grade of an A-/B+ (right on the threshold). Win the bowl game and we're an A-, lose and it's a B+. 

 

Lots of progress throughout the year on both sides of the ball and the future is bright. That said, no matter what Harbaugh says, some games are much more important than others and we lost our two most important conference games and our most important non-conference game (Utah was the best of the opponents and had the most national spotlight on the game). 

Good season, was very fun to watch, but we'll have to wait for a truly great season. 

ChuckieWoodson

November 30th, 2015 at 12:38 PM ^

right now to not be a little upset with Durkin as it feels like he may've been putting his own career infront of the gameplan and team's performance these last few weeks.  I mean, I get timing of these things and all that but damn man... got 52 weeks of the year.  12 of which are regular season - leaving you 40 OTHER weeks to pursue your career goals.

Tex_Ind_Blue

November 30th, 2015 at 12:47 PM ^

Unfortunately, they don't hire college coaches throughout the year. It's more like 4-5 weeks in December and next January. So even if he wanted to, he can't stay away from the process.

OTOH, he can gameplan for the 40 other weeks as well. May be that would be the way to go.

Tex_Ind_Blue

November 30th, 2015 at 12:39 PM ^

So what would or could work? Throwing up hands because the 3-3-5 isn't working is not a response, right? I understand that each scheme takes certain time to learn and master. And learning a new scheme for each opponent is not possible in the college. So how does one combat OSU/Indiana vs. the rest of the schedule? It's not like the service academies that are scheduled once in a while. OSU/Indiana are going to stay on Michigan's schedule for eternity. So what's the plan? 

Hannibal.

November 30th, 2015 at 12:42 PM ^

The dismal running game is a major issue that has to be addressed both schematically and developmentally. 

The three tailbacks who returned from last year all ran for significantly less yards per carry than they did last year.  Deveon Smith dropped from 4.8 ypc to 4.2 ypc.  Drake Johnson dropped from 6.0 ypc to 4.4 ypc.  Derrick Green dropped from 5.7 ypc to 3.3 ypc.  As a group, the three of them had exactly 250 carries this year and last year.  This year, they gained 1014 yards.  Last year, they gained 1351 yards.  The same tailbacks with the entire offensive line returning and much better TE blocking gained 317 fewer yards this year on the same number of carries.  That's staggering regression that nobody expected.  As a team, we ran for 4.5 ypc adjusted for sacks.  Last year -- 5.3 ypc. 

You can't chalk it up to just getting familiar with a new scheme, because if that is the case, the running game should have gotten better as the year progressed.  Once conference play started our base running game showed no signs of life at all.  You can't chalk it up to QB play anymore either, because even when Rudock was putting up Troy Smith type numbers the running game didn't open up.  You can say that it's because "defenses pack the box to stop the run", but then you have to provide an answer why that works so easily against our running game but nobody else's.  We're in the bottom third of Div I-A this year in ypc despite only giving up 19 sacks.  It's not recruiting -- 90% of the coaches in the country would gladly have taken our O-line classes in 2012 and 2013.  It's not experience, as everyone coming into this year was experienced.  It's not just the running backs, because all three guys were better last year. 

There is nobody here who was pleased with our running game in 2014, and this team will have to make huge strides just to get back to that level.  I'm less optimistic about the 2016 than I was a month ago, despite seeing some positive signs in some places.  But unfortunately, the biggest succes story of November (Rudock) won't be back next year, and there is no sign at all that the running game epic fail will be solved. 

 

jmblue

November 30th, 2015 at 1:28 PM ^

I think a lot of this probably just comes down to the growing pains associated with not only changing blocking schemes but implementing a new offense, so that no one on the team was familiar with it prior to the season - and we know Harbaugh's playbook is pretty hefty.  I think we saw a lot of this the first two months with Rudock and the receivers as well; it took time for them to digest everything they were taught and get in synch. 

We seemed to have a ton of plays this season in which a single missed block (whether by the OL or someone outside) was the difference between a negative play and a big gain.  I think we'll see less of that in the future as things become more automatic for everyone in the offense.

In the long run, I think we'll be fine offensively.  Defensively, I'm not quite as comfortable at the moment, although our positional coaching at DL and in the secondary is clearly very good.  In fairness, this could be considered Durkin's rookie season as a coordinator given that he was working under Muschamp previously.

 

Stu Daco

November 30th, 2015 at 1:56 PM ^

 

there is no sign at all that the running game epic fail will be solved

 

Except Harbaugh's entire career, in which his rushing offenses have consistently demonstrated very little improvement in Year 1 followed by total domination in Year 2 and 3.  

YPC:

SD 2004:  43rd  (Up only 4 spots from 2003)

SD 2005:  30th

SD 2006: 3rd

Stanford 2007:  110th  (Up only 7 spots from 2006)

Stanford 2008:   20th

Stanford 2009:  6th  

49ers 2011:  19th  (Down 2 spots from 2010)

49ers 2012: 3rd

 

Hannibal.

November 30th, 2015 at 2:08 PM ^

What did his depth chart look like in that first year at Stanford?  This year he was in the very enviable position of getting back just about everyone on the two-deep.  I don't think that's true for many coaches.

I didn't watch enough Stanford football under Harbaugh to make a judgement on how it compares to what we have now, but I look at our running game and I saw tons of well-blocked running plays that went for 2, 3, or 4 yards.  Lots of plays where it didn't look like anyone glaringly screwed up that still didn't get much yardage.  Very few gaping holes.  More like cracks that the backs need great vision to see and excellent agility to cut back to.  That speaks to me of a schematic issue -- one that won't be improved much with one off season since next year we will be running the same scheme.  Drake Johnson is supposedly our "vision" guy and he took a big step backwards this year.  I look around the country and I see lots of teams running the ball way better than us against good defenses.  And they don't have to use smoke and mirrors and RPS +2 plays to do it.  Their base running game just works.  Ours didn't this year at all outside of the Oregon State game.  If we plug in Kareem Walker next year or use Peppers more on offense, I'll bet that we're better, but not leaps and bounds better.This to me a is as big a concern going forward as the shitty defense against IU and OSU. 

Space Coyote

November 30th, 2015 at 2:01 PM ^

I don't totally disagree with you, the running game didn't make the improvement people were looking for, however...

1. According to S&P+ (which breaks up the success of the run and pass game), Michigan was essentially the same running team in 2015 as they were in 2014 (both in the low 60s).

2. Michigan is a heavier (i.e. more TE/RB personnel) than they were last year. The type of offense they run, in general, has fewer long runs, but aims more at being consistent to stay on track. My impression is that Michigan had fewer 20+ yard runs this year, but was much better at gaining positive yardage consistently. My guess is, while the mean is down, the median is about the same.

3. This year, teams specifically schemed heavily against Michigan's run game. This eventually lead to Rudock figuring things out and finally PSU and OSU played something closer to their base defenses. But for 10 games, defenses played very run heavy. That didn't happen against Michigan in 2014. In 2014 teams basically just waited for Michigan to self-implode on offense, which they regularly did eventually (sack, fumble, INT, missed pass, missed cut, etc).

FWIW, Nuss had a very simplified run scheme. While it had some wrinkles, not nearly as many as Harbaugh's offense does. Harbaugh's offense takes longer to get right. The rushing attack needs to get better, I was not excited about how it ended this year, but I'm not completely down on it either. It's about where I expected it to be quite honestly, if only a little behind at this point. Most of the progress is made in the off season, not during it.

harmon40

November 30th, 2015 at 2:33 PM ^

Not an X's & O's guy, so I throw this out there hesitantly, but:

Our ability to punish teams for stacking the box was limited by Rudock's arm strength. He started hitting downfield, but for us "downfield" seemed to mean 15-25 yds in the air beyond scrimmage, not long bombs of 30-40+ yds. Thus, even when he heated up we still couldn't really stretch the field.

I'm glad we had Rudock this season, however a QB w/greater range might be (at least partially) the tonic our run game needs...

 

growler4

November 30th, 2015 at 12:44 PM ^

Why are people getting all over Durkin post-game?

I suspect he has greater knowledge of what he has to work with than anyone on this blog or anyone posting on the message board, such as myself.

We had trouble with Indiana's offense. The trouble we had on Saturday was not entirely unpredictable. If you want to believe the problem was one of tactics, go ahead, but I think these types of offenses illustrate talent deficiencies.

I don't like it, but I'll admit that Ohio State has a better football team than us ... right now. Yet, I admire the job Harbaugh, Durkin, & Co. did this year. I think they got about as much out of their roster as anyone could have hoped for, and I think we owe thanks to the players for their efforts.

The future is bright. On to recruiting and bowl preparation. Bowl practices will help guys prepare for next year, too.

There's no crime in trying and working hard and falling short.

The team, the team, the team... Bo exhorted the players to stick together and not criticize one another. Many in the fan base could learn a lesson.

DetroitBlue

November 30th, 2015 at 12:47 PM ^

People are getting on Durkin because he didn't to load up the box and dare them to pass. It was perfectly clear that we couldn't stop the run with 2 or even 1 deep safety and he didn't even try anything else. Literally nothing could've gone worse than what he came up with, and even after that was apparent he didn't try something different



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doggdetroit

November 30th, 2015 at 1:05 PM ^

Maybe, but Barrett was having a pretty efficient game throwing the ball (finished 8 of 15 for 113 and a TD, never made a bad throw) and OSU's receivers were consistently beating Michigan's DBs. I'm guessing if forced to throw more, OSU would have found success. Maybe the game doesn't end 42-13 but they still win convincingly.

Sometimes you lose to a flat out better team and all you can do is tip your hat. I don't see any change in scheme affecting the ultimate outcome of that game.

DetroitBlue

November 30th, 2015 at 1:16 PM ^

It's a legitimate point, but I would've rather made Barrett keep beating (mostly) really good coverage, than giving up 6 yards a pop rushing. It was 100% certain we couldn't stop the run the way we were playing, it was less than certain they could've consistently moved the ball through the air



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harmon40

November 30th, 2015 at 6:19 PM ^

I was thinking the same thing when it was happening. Maybe they burn us through the air, but we definitely have no answer for what they are doing to us on the ground. 

Well, it will take some time but in the not-so-distant future we won't be trying to scheme around personnel disadvantages. So many options open up when you can just line up and play with them.

 

harmon40

November 30th, 2015 at 2:45 PM ^

So perhaps the decision not to sell out against the run was based on the coaches' in-game observations of our DB's vs their WR's?

If that's the case, then maybe they reasoned that the risk of giving up a big play through the air was unacceptable, as it could have resulted in the game getting out of hand even faster, rather than making OSU go the length of the field on the ground, having to run more plays, and giving us a better shot at a drive-killing TFL, or forcing a fumble, etc. 

I'm pretty sure that if any of us had the chance to sit down with Durkin and/or Harbaugh (and somehow get Wonder Woman's lasso around them so that they had to answer all our questions honestly and w/o hesitation), they would probably give us an explanation that made perfect sense given the circumstances...