Getting Right With History Comment Count

Brian

11/30/2014 – Michigan 28, OSU 42 – 5-7, 3-5 Big Ten

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[Eric Upchurch]

In one of last year's season preview posts I wondered if Michigan was going to end up on the wrong side of the war after Hoke's hire. I got piles of crap for this take from people waving Stanford anecdotes around. I think a lot of people read "pro style can't work" when what I'm saying is "it's clearly less likely to." I'm not going to turn my nose up at Jim Harbaugh no matter what he wants to run. Wing-T? Yes, sir.

Anyway: the crux of that argument was that if you think running a spread makes your defense soft when you have to play Wisconsin, the corollary to that is that if you're not preparing for spread elements daily you will struggle when you go up against them. For the most part this held true during the Hoke era (if I say "tempo" you will dive under a couch), and never more so than against OSU.

Statistically, Michigan has had a defense somewhere between good and terrific under Greg Mattison. Ohio State looks at that and says naw:

  • 2011: 34 points, 376 yards, about two feet from another 70 yards and game-winning points.
  • 2012: 26 points, 396 yards. A decent performance, year one of Meyer.
  • 2013: 42 points, 526 yards. An obliteration.
  • 2014: 42 points, 416 yards. Seven of those points are via a defensive TD.

These were all slow games featuring a lot of running and a lot of Michigan dawdling. This year's version of The Game had just nine OSU possessions, which is the practical minimum. Anything played at a Pac 12 pace would have been ugly.

Michigan had a vaguely acceptable performance once in four years, and two of those games featured freshman OSU quarterbacks who weren't even supposed to be the starter preseason. Hell, this game featured an eighty yard drive led by the third string QB.

The whole "Big Boy Football" thing is all the more galling since OSU has consistently ground Michigan into paste without bothering to throw the ball much. OSU QBs have thrown an average of 20.5 passes against Michigan in the Hoke era, and I'd guess about a half of those were screens and easy stuff in the flat. With most of the rest downfield bombs, OSU's offense avoids turnovers while simultaneously being lethally efficient. If the spread does get your QBs hurt more often—something that's been hard to confirm with numbers—that's not something that has affected Ohio State. Cardale Jones came in and sealed the game.

OSU is running twice as much as they're passing against Michigan and averaging 6.1 yards a carry. These are Rodriguez-at-WVU type stats, the kind that blew me away when I was looking at his track record after his hire.

The funny thing about the Danielsons of the world is that they're old school RUN THE DANG BALL types, but they manage to sidestep the fact that forcing the defense to account for a running quarterback is the best way to run the ball. I can think of no better way to make this point than a chart from back in 2008 that compared Michigan's YPC in year one of Rodriguez to the previous seven years of Lloyd Carr:

# Year YPC
1 2006 4.27
2 2003 4.25
3 2007 3.97
4 2008 3.91
5 2005 3.89
6 2004 3.83
7 2002 3.82
8 2001 3.59

Threet and Sheridan and no linemen and they still ended up above average. Michigan would easily top 2006 from 2009 to 2012. Lloyd Carr could talk about running the ball. His teams couldn't do it, at least not well.

I want to run the ball. I want to run an offense that doesn't ask the QB to make complicated reads, but rather asks him to make a decision about one guy. Hoke was a mistake for a thousand reasons, but prime amongst them was his "we're gonna run power" crap after he'd never been able to do that anywhere else.

Michigan spent the 2011 game running the inverted veer wrong and they still put up 40; that this had no impact on his approach speaks volumes about Hoke's lack of quality as a coach. Bo made the shift to a modern passing offense when he had to. Saban is grudgingly moving in that direction: I was watching the Iron Bowl on Saturday and Herbstreit made multiple references to how Alabama was now a no-huddle team. They found themselves down multiple scores in the second half and ripped off five straight TDs in short order.

The game moves; move with it or die. Michigan chose hidebound traditionalism on the field and whiz-bang idiot modernism in the pageantry. The former is a natural reaction after you get burned. The latter is a natural consequence of hiring a pizza marketer.

But can we learn? I would like to learn. Rich Rodriguez blew it here, and he learned. He dumped his defensive staff, got Jeff Casteel back, and is headed to the Pac-12 championship game with a freshman QB after having beaten Oregon in back-to-back years. This is our opportunity to do something right this time.

Unfortunately, Michigan's current coaching staff is going on recruiting visits today when they should be taking a day with a bottle of scotch before polishing up the old resume. I have no idea what they're supposed to say on these visits.

RECRUIT: Aren't you guys getting fired?
COACH: Almost certainly.
RECRUIT: So why are you here?
COACH: I'm like a corpse still twitching. Held in this hellish no-place, I pine for my soul's release and reincarnation as the offensive coordinator at a D-II school.
RECRUIT: Whoah.
COACH: You said it.

Florida knows what's going on; Tulsa knows what's going on; Illinois knows what's going on. Michigan doesn't. Comparisons to Nebraska are invalid. Michigan's not 9-3, and no one is going to be blindsided by Hoke getting axed.

Poke the Russia Today outlet in the Michigan e-sphere and you'll hear that it's about Doing Right By The Staff and that it's about Keeping The Pressure Off Harbaugh; neither of these explanations make any sense. That coach doesn't want to be on that visit. He wants to be looking for another job. Harbaugh speculation does not start with, or even focus on, Michigan in NFL circles.

I can't see a reason to drag it out, but here we are, dragging it out. The guy in charge may be competent but he has no track record. We're stuck here hoping this guy is actually qualified and that things turn out for the best. Maybe it will. Forgive me if I have a tendency to look on everything this department does as a mistake.

That's' going to be a tough habit to break, but here's a suggestion: act like a collection of people instead of a committee for once and acknowledge that there's no good way for this to go down. The first major Brandon warning sign was when he infamously took two days of meetings to fire Rich Rodriguez when that was a fait accompli.

Get on with it, motherfu

[After THE JUMP: offensive line ups and downs, clock lol, etc.]

BULLETS

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BEHIND YOU [Upchurch]

The edges cave in. Michigan had not seen an elite edge rusher all year unless Anthony Zettel or Shilique Calhoun counts. They might; even if they are they are not in Joey Bosa's class. I can tell this because Bosa and his compatriots crushed the Michigan pocket with a consistency Michigan had not seen in a long time. Gardner was sacked five times after getting through much of November without taking a hit. He coped surprising well given what we'd seen from him; it was still a major problem.

This wasn't much of a surprise with Michigan fielding a true freshman LT and a shaky sophomore RT. It was more a reminder that Michigan had just about gotten away with it this year. Sacks allowed are not great—26, which is 75th nationally—but they are much much better than last year. With an offseason to improve in they could get to good.

Especially since…

The running game functioned. Without those sacks Michigan averaged 4.8 yards a carry. In a sack-adjusted world that's just okay, but "just" and "okay" should not go next to each other when we are talking about a game against Ohio State in which Michigan's interior offensive line pretty much won the battle against the OSU DL.

Remember that De'Veon Smith carry on which he got lit up in the backfield? That's approximately the only time that happened.

It's kind of hard to take Michigan's rushing stats seriously this year since they feature almost ten yards a carry against Appalachian State and another big hunk at 6.1 against Miami (NTM). That's the kind of thing a lot of teams get, yes, but they don't surround that with four games in which you don't break 3 YPC.

Are we confident then? Maybe not confident confident. Still, the end of the year saw four straight reasonable-to-good performances in the run game and the pass protection was improved. Michigan gets back every OL on the roster, and they've got some experienced depth in Erik Magnuson. If they make equal progress next year they could be good-ish.

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Torn ACL, same knee. [Upchurch]

Drake? I'll say this about Drake Johnson: I don't yell "THE HOLE IS OVER THERRRRRRRE" when he's in the game. I didn't think that was going to be a big deal this year; it was. Johnson still has moments where his cuts cause him to come to a dead stop, but he ran through a couple tackles in this game, has good straight-line speed, and seems to understand the blocking in front of him more than his compatriots.

It'll be hard to hold off a returning Derrick Green and the newly-available Ty Isaac, especially since he'll be missing spring practice after tearing his ACL on that touchdown.

It'll be interesting to see who the new staff goes with. He's in the conversation.

Oh come on, part XXXVIII. The clock management at the end of the first half was dubious for everyone. Ohio State let the clock roll as Michigan prepared to punt from their 45 with about three minutes left in the half. Michigan then punted with 15 or 16 seconds left on the playclock. That is idiotic. It's also something Hoke seems to do before the half in every game.

The ensuing drive saw OSU tie the game on a ten-play, 83-yard march, with the last play snapped with 17 seconds left on the clock. OSU had two timeouts, but with a series of incomplete passes and first-down runs the amount of time they would have saved with them was negligible; anyway the point is that it is dumb to give the opposition 15 free seconds for a two minute drill and that this dumbness is endemic to the program now. Remember the free Hail Mary Michigan gave to Penn State? Yeah.

Defense. I don't really have much to say other than it was yet another clobbering—5 TDs on 9 drives is a clobbering—in which Michigan just could not cope with the multiple exposures to one-on-one tackling that Meyer's offense exposes you to. Not many have. The key to stopping offenses like this is having a defensive line that kicks the opposing OL's ass, as Penn State did and Stanford occasionally has against Oregon. That wasn't happening without Frank Clark, and probably wasn't happening even with him.

It was disappointing that Raymon Taylor got beat on two big plays, one the 52 yard bomb to Devin Smith, the other an opportunity to boot OSU off the field on their end-of-half drive.

HERE

Best And Worst:


Best:  Why Can't They Make the Whole Season Out of OSU's Defense?

To paraphrase Jerry Seinfeld, if Michigan is only capable of playing this way offensively when they line up against OSU, they might as well just schedule the Buckeyes 12 times.  Devin Gardner did throw the interception, and it was his fumble on a sack that OSU returned for a defensive TD following Elliott's TD run, but he also threw the ball as well as he has in weeks, completing over 2/3's of his passes for 233 yards and 2 TDs, and spread out the receptions to 9 different players, 10 if you include the throwback pass he caught from Drake Johnson on a pretty brilliant playcall that helped Michigan tie the game at 21 in the 3rd.  It wasn't anywhere close to his record-breaking performance from last year, but Gardner acquitted himself well enough in his final game as a Wolverine, and it was a bit poetic that his last completion of his career was a great little throw and catch to Canteen for Michigan's last TD.  Of course, the fact it was in a game Michigan wound up losing by 14 takes a bit of luster off the rose, but this is the "happy thoughts" part of this diary.

Inside The Box Score:

When I was a kid, I heard that Bo and Woody preferred to run the ball because when you pass the ball, three things can happen and two of them are bad. The Michigan offense of the past two years has redefined that calculus. I now believe that when you pass the ball, six things can happen and five of them are bad. Of course, you have the original two bad items, the incompletion and the interception. I've seen enough of Michigan's offense to realize that we have to add these additional bad outcomes: 1) throwing screen passes for negative yardage, 2) getting sacked, and 3) getting strip-sacked.

     In case there was any doubt, Michigan drove the point home to start the game. On our first play, Drake Johnson ran for 7 yards. On the next play, Devin Gardner threw an interception. On the next drive, Michigan threw a screen pass for -5 yards, ran the ball for 15 yards, took a sack, ran for 4, and took another sack. Three good running plays and four bad passing plays. The second drive ended with yet another poor special teams play, as Jalin Marshall returned a punt 23 yards.

ELSEWHERE

HSR on where they are:

I almost have begun to wonder in the past decade whether Michigan's interest in the rivalry is, in knowing how much it means to them, being able to beat them and ruin that for them, is what Michigan fans truly get out of this.  Michigan fans don't care less about the rivalry than Ohio State fans do, they just care about it differently.  Michigan fans like winning, period.  Michigan fans want to beat everybody and dread that there will be somewhere along the way in a season where Michigan doesn't win.  Michigan's season is not going to be made by beating Ohio in a way that Ohio's might be.  But it makes me sad to know that there has not been one game since 1999 where Michigan went in to The Game and thought "we should win this." *  Ohio State fans have thought this all too often since the Tressel era began.  If I have a sadness about this rivalry, it is that.

(*-If you want to argue 2011 with me, I'll listen, but even then, the best chance Michigan had to get a win since 2003 (when it was #4 vs #5, which is not a "should"), did not feel like a "should win", but like a "please dear God, let us win."  It's not the same.  And 2004, #7 in the country vs. a 6-5 Buckeye team, still had to go to Columbus.)

The Devin Gardner era ended yesterday not with a whimper, but not with a bang.  It ended with more conclusive proof about the kind of person that Devin Gardner is (see photo above), but also the maddening flaws about what kind of quarterback Devin Gardner, turnover prone, but flashing brilliance here there and everywhere.  There seems to be a desire to make a metaphor of this game as a microcosm of the Hoke era, and perhaps it is.  Unfortunately, like so many times in the Hoke era, we're left with more questions than answers.  If Hoke's era is coming to a close, then the book will be left to be written, but we've written so much of it.  In so many ways, we've known for months what is going to happen, but we're waiting for the actual moment, so we can move on and move forward.

Baumgardner column. Sap's Decals:

HELMET COLOR – After dealing with all the crap this season, I finally had enough of seeing the wrong shade of yellow on the M helmets!  It was painfully obvious to me that it was not right the correct color and it’s time we got it right!

Maybe it was the culmination of everything that we had to deal with this year, including the all blue unis, but for some reason the color of the yellow on the Michigan helmets was painfully out of synch with the rest of the uniform.   The shade of yellow/maize didn’t match the pants. It didn’t match the yellow trim on the jersey.  Heck, it didn’t even match the yellow shoes worn by some of the Wolverines. Time for Riddell to get it right! If they can’t get it right, then they need someone to help get it right. Consider myself volunteered!

Daily on Gardner.

Comments

Wendyk5

December 1st, 2014 at 1:23 PM ^

I've avoided going all 7 year-old on the program -  you know, if I don't get my way, I'm going to withhold my attention (and money) -  but I gotta say, I'm with you. I've gotten no return on my emotional investment this season, and as ridiculous as it sounds, it's exacting too much of a toll on me. If I can figure out a way to stay interested without getting emotionally involved, I'll let you all in on it because I know some of you are in the same boat. 

bringthewood

December 1st, 2014 at 2:49 PM ^

Agreed. This is the first year I have not watched all of the games or on TV in at least 20 years. I skipped 3 games completely because I do not see any hope. At least with RR there was some improvement.

I grew up a Lions fan and had a Lem Barney poster on my wall but I no longer watch or follow the Lions due to Matt Millen. Michigan football is headed in that same direction for me.

schreibee

December 1st, 2014 at 1:21 PM ^

Again, there's a million reasons Hoke likely will not be fired in 24 hours or 24 days for that matter. That's strictly financial.
But Harbaugh coming here won't be a financial decision - it's completely up to him and his family whether he returns to the college ranks or stays in the NFL. Word is the 49ers are trying to work out a deal where they get draft pick compensation from another team. Then JH has to decide if he wants to coach for whichever team offers SF the best package.
Get ready for 1 month more of waiting & speculating. It may be awhile before you know if you're "done with this program"

Tuebor

December 1st, 2014 at 12:47 PM ^

I can't believe they would waste money from the recruiting budget by sending out a staff that is in limbo.  Unless they aren't going to fire Hoke...

 

 

Ed Shuttlesworth

December 1st, 2014 at 12:55 PM ^

We have a deficient football culture, it's pretty clear by now. 

The ironic thing is that if Bo Schembechler were stil coaching the team, he'd almost certainly be running the spread.  Bo Schembechler didn't run the football in the 70s because he was some hidebound traditionalist, he ran the football because everybody else did and he was way better at it than everybody else.  And the way he ran the football was jazzy, with guys like Dennis Franklin and Rick Leach at QB and all variations of formations, veers, options, and reverse options.  He didn't line up and run it down people's throats for the sake of it. 

When Mike White and Darryl Rodgers brought west coast passing to the Big Ten, Bo Schembechler went out and recruited Anthony Carter and put John Wangler at QB and threw the ball all over the field, which begat Jim Harbaugh, which begat a very "modern" offense in 1988 and 1989, his last two and two of his best teams, which looked absolutely nothing like the teams with Dennis Franklin.

For his next act, albeit misguided, Bo took over the Tigers and immediately fired the very personification of Genteel Tradition (TM), Ernie Harwell.

So when the run was in vogue, Bo did it better than everybody else; when the pass was in vogue, Bo did that better than everybody else; when a run/pass mix was in vogue, Bo did that better than everybody else.

Bo would have absolutely loved Denard Robinson and would have built his offense around him and the other teams would have had more problems keeping up with him than they did with Al Borges and Brady Hoke coaching him.  It's just comical to believe that he would have kept up with the Urban Meyers and Chip Kellys of college football by resorting to oafish, caveman tripe like "MANBALL."  That silly mix of nostalgia for what never was, and pure bullshit, is why the empire has fallen.

BIGWEENIE

December 1st, 2014 at 12:55 PM ^

Hackett laughing in the box while the team is getting beat. I worked for this guy and have zero hope he comes close to getting this right. The Michigan man quote has just screwed it up.Time to fire and get out the cash.

umalum95

December 1st, 2014 at 1:16 PM ^

In what capacity did you work for him? And what were your interactions like? What gives you "zero hope?"

There were a few of these anecdotal stories shared by former employees when Brandon was hired at UM but most were dismissed because "rah rah rah, former CEO, played for Bo, rah rah rah." I think it's safe to say that most of us have had no personal or professional interactions with Jim Hackett and I'm curious to hear what yours were. Thanks.

BIGWEENIE

December 1st, 2014 at 3:18 PM ^

Creating a new shift, 930 PM until 8 am and sticking guys with 20, 30 or more years on it while temps were working days. Buying into every stupid program some consultant came up with until a year or 2 later. Then went back to the old way, more cost effective. Closing whole departments ( Model shop ) then hiring back the guys as consultants at a much higher pay scale. I could go on and on. I thing Hoke is a real nice guy but just not cut out for this job. End it, dont leave him twisting in the wind. Like I said, zero hope this goes right but hope I am wrong.

Ed Shuttlesworth

December 1st, 2014 at 12:59 PM ^

In re the micromanagement, if Hoke doesn't have the stones to tell Brandon to stick his film watching and "Big Boy Football" up his ass, Hoke doesn't have the personality to be an elite football coach.  None of the elite coaches would (or temperamentally could) put up with such bullshit.

Ron Utah

December 1st, 2014 at 1:54 PM ^

I agree with almost every word of this post.

Hoke should be gone already; that he isn't is a sure sign of an AD that doesn't get it.  Every day Hoke stays employed is another tacit acceptance of the mediocre results we've experienced the last three seasons.  Was not Florida classy, even in their early firing of Muschamp?  Was not Nebraska classy, even in firing a guy who can't win less than 9 games?  Hell, even if Hoke is going to be kept, today is the day to announce it.  Waiting is ridiculous, and smacks of incompetence.  Shouldn't Hackett have had his review complete, save for the OSU game?  How long does it take to add one more loss into the equation?

Unlike 2008 and 2011, there are the pieces of a good football team here.  The sooner we can establish who will be leading these young men, the better.  We should have already made the statement that the current guy--no matter how likeable and honorable--is not good enough to be the head coach of the Michigan football program.

The clock is ticking, and we look dumber every minute.

bronxblue

December 1st, 2014 at 1:04 PM ^

If there isn't an announcement by the end of the week with respect to Hoke, it probably means he is coming back for another year.  It also means Hackett is as much of a stuffed shirt as Brandon was as it relates to the AD, so yippee for that.

blueak

December 1st, 2014 at 1:06 PM ^

At Michigan, they do things "The Michigan Way." Just like Riders in the Sky do things "The Cowboy Way." Hackett will take his good own time deciding what to do with Hoke, even if it means losing out on the Harbaugh boys, Miles, or any other good prospect. You sure don't see Florida messing around like this, BUT, it's "The Michigan Way" in Ann Arbor, even if it results with Hoke staying here. Yes, once again, a totally fucked up firing, MAYBE, and new coach search.

True Blue Grit

December 1st, 2014 at 1:14 PM ^

Trying to pass against OSU is that everyone here knows how badly things go when he goes back into the pocket and looks for open receivers.  The coaches have been forcing him to throw from back there all season despite all the sacks, fumbles, and interceptions.  And against a really, really good DL like OSU, you had to believe what was going to happen.  Despite, this Gardner acquitted himself well somehow despite all the bad plays.  But during the game, I'd yell at the TV for Gardner to "GET RID OF THE BALL - NOW!!"  For every millisecond he holds onto the ball back there, the probability of something bad happening goes up by double.  From a point much earlier in the season, a main goal of the passing offense should have been for Gardner to get rid of the ball in ____ seconds or less.   Oh well.  It's all over now.  Devin can move on and make some great contributions in the world - probably not at QB though. 

AmishRule

December 1st, 2014 at 1:16 PM ^

When Hoke spoke at his first press conference after he was hired about "pro style football", "running downhill" and "road grader offense line recruits".  I got very worried. My immediate impression was that Michigan hired a puppet to appease some power brokers in the program.

I like the guy, but I lost plenty of respect for him -- I really think he was more worried about developing a program to meet somebody else's expectations, and not what is really competitive in today's game.

I think some will be shocked if either Harbaugh is our coach. As I think both will be very flexible in their offensive design -- and give a rat's ass to anyone's expectation.

Erik_in_Dayton

December 1st, 2014 at 1:16 PM ^

We're only a couple of days removed from the OSU game.  Jim Harbaugh has at least four more NFL games. 

Is it ideal to have the staff on the road right now?  No, but it doesn't mean they'll be back. 

Having Hackett make the call may prove to be a big mistake.  I wish Michigan had hired Manuel/Bates/Long/whomever already.  But we're not at the point of no return right now. 

Dr. Explosion

December 1st, 2014 at 1:21 PM ^

2008 - 7 points, 198 yards, 2 TOs

2009 - 10 points, 309 yards, 5 TOs

2010 - 7 points, 351 yards, 3 TOs

Point being, the spread offense isn't magic. OSU was crushing us 2008 to 2010 running a pro style offense. It's OSU, not their style of offense, that has been kicking our ass.

JFW

December 1st, 2014 at 1:22 PM ^

"The first major Brandon warning sign was when he infamously took two days of meetings to fire Rich Rodriguez when that was a fait accompli."

This has that feel: that Hackett is going through the corporate motions of having meetings and discussing strategy. WTF. This should have been done THE DAY HE TOOK THE JOB. Its not like he was without data, and not like he didn't know there was a problem. We'd had multiple previous seasons worth of data, and most of this one. Its like Iacocca taking over Chrysler and starting out by having two months of staff meetings to discover if the company is circling the drain and what they should do about it if the discovery process says it is, all while they bleed money.

As I said before, winning isn't enough, its how they win. There has been progress, but not fast enough, and not across the board. 

I like Hoke. I was a Hoke supporter. I'll support whomever comes in. I'll admit that scheme zealotry of any kind turns me off, be it Brian's with the spread or Mooch's over the WCO. I think it ends up leaving a team inflexible. But in the end, I don't give a rip what they run if they can coach the whole damned team (not just one side), develop talent, and WIN. Read option? Go for it guys. Single Wing? If that floats our boat, then by golly lets do it. 

I have this great fear that there is nothing going on in the background, and we're going to end up getting a coach in mid january after Florida, Nebraska, and others have guys in their program and setting things up, because 'That's the way we do things, in a deliberate manner in the pursuit of excellence'. 

Great Googly Moogly athletic department. DO SOMETHING. You're doing no one any favors. 

 

 

kzoomgr

December 1st, 2014 at 1:25 PM ^

When we unleashed Gardner a few years back, I imagined him to be sort of a version of Vince Young - strong, mobile, passable thrower, etc.  Not with Denard mobility for sure, but a mobile weapon.  I'll allow that he's had lots of injuries that past few seasons, but this game reminded me that he's not really as mobile as I thought he was going to be.  On that Drake Johnson fake pass play in the 3Q (great play call Nuss!), Gardner received the ball on about the 15 with not a single defender in the same zip code, and sort of loped toward the end zone, getting easily stopped around the 4 yard line.  There are a number of QB's that you would not consider to be mobile who would have easily scored on that play.

jabberwock

December 1st, 2014 at 5:10 PM ^

then you'd know he's either still somewhat injured, or has lost some of his speed due to injury.

I've seen how fast a healthy (& perhaps less gun shy) Devin Gardner can be.  I agree that's not the Devin we saw at this years Game.  He's either mentally or still physically hampered by injuries, coaching, whatever.

Just makes me more sad at the squandered potential.  

Otisthebigdog

December 1st, 2014 at 1:28 PM ^

 Some of the years quoted as subpar to RR were 2001 thru 2005. They featured Chris Perry and Mike Hart. I don't give a damn what any stats say those teams could run the ball and also featured 1000 yard receivers.

gbdub

December 1st, 2014 at 2:12 PM ^

"I don't care what the stats say". There's your problem. Well, that, and that you missed the point of Brian's argument. The indisputable fact of the matter is that under Rich Rod, Michigan went farther each time they carried the ball. So if what you liked about Carr was grinding out yards on the ground, RR's spread is like that but better.




Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

DFW_Michigan_Man

December 1st, 2014 at 3:13 PM ^

Stats is that Rich Rods defense gave up a point a minute and a significant number of those yards were against inferior competition. Would love to see just how well the Rich Rod offense did against the upper echelon opponents only. Stats can be skewed in any direction that follows the agenda of the OP.

InterM

December 1st, 2014 at 4:06 PM ^

If so, in the 2010 game, Michigan rushed 41 times for 182 yards, or 4.4 YPC.  How many times, you might ask, did Lloyd Carr's Michigan teams do better than that against OSU?  Going back to 2000 (box scores pre-2000 are hard to find online), the answer would be . . . zero.  In 2006 and 2003, Michigan managed 4.3 YPC (30 carries for 130 yards and 40 carries for 170 yards, respectively).  But Carr's record against OSU also includes 2007 (24 rushing yards, 0.6 YPC), 2005 (32 rushing yards, 1.3 YPC), and 2000 (88 rushing yards, 2.0 YPC).  By way of comparison, in 2008 (Rodriguez's first year, with no rushing threat at QB and no OL), Michigan rushed for 111 yards against OSU, good for 2.7 YPC, which beats three of Carr's eight teams between 2000-07.

Here's an insight to consider -- offenses (and defenses, for that matter) tend to do less well against "upper echelon" opponents.  Rodriguez's (and Carr's) offenses are no exception.

DFW_Michigan_Man

December 1st, 2014 at 4:29 PM ^

Or man ball....I am simply stating that stats can be skewed. You site one game against Ohio State in 2010.....considering they lost that game by 30, how many of those yards were meaningful and didn't come im "garbage time" when the outcome had already been decided? There seems to be a revisionist history around here when Rich Rod is being discussed.

InterM

December 1st, 2014 at 5:17 PM ^

just how well the Rich Rod offense did against the upper echelon opponents only."  That's what you asked, so that's what I provided, with a comparison to Lloyd Carr's offense for context.  So now you switch to a different argument -- that Michigan lost in 2010 and its rushing yardage therefore wasn't necessarily "meaningful."  Again, I note that Carr's Michigan teams lost 6 of the 8 OSU games referenced in my prior post, so I assume there was some "garbage time" yardage involved in those games as well (if there was any rushing yardage at all -- and there wasn't in 2005 or 2007).  At the end of the day, Brian's claim was that Rodriguez put together a better rushing offense than Carr, and you have yet to identify any flaw in that argument, other than a vague claim that we're all engaged in some sort of "revisionist history around here."  Yes, statistics can be "skewed," but if you keep looking at them from different angles and reach the same conclusion, you might be onto something.

GoBLUinTX

December 1st, 2014 at 6:37 PM ^

Were in the first half and accounted for all seven points Michigan scored that day and two of three Michigan turnovers.  Michigan came out in the second half down by 17 and basically crapped the bed.  

Michigan in the 2nd half was INT on first play, 18 yd drive punt, 2 yds punt, 6 yds punt

4th Q: 68 yds (9 yds rushing) turnover on downs,  -1 yd turnover on downs.

Wow, what a kickass offense.

late night BTB

December 1st, 2014 at 1:34 PM ^

08 grad here. Watched parts of about 2 games this year. Went to an MSU game, and a couple SEC games.  Michigan football isn't fun to watch, it isn't fun to be at the game, and it doesn't represent the University well. 

Mess this hire up and Michigan football may crater for another 10 years, marking a 20 year period of irrelevance. This hire is that big, and it's unfathomable the way the AD is behaving.  To believe otherwise is pulling the wool over your eyes.

gwkrlghl

December 1st, 2014 at 5:00 PM ^

I agree. I know firing Hoke this second doesn't necessarily mean we "get it" but watching other schools act decisively while we sit around and lollygag with both the AD position and the HC position make me want to yell "DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON HERE. DO YOU NOT SEE THAT THIS IS IMPORTANT"

I feel like I'm about to watch history repeat itself. An arrogant Michigan saying "Thing will work out because it's Michigan. I don't have to try hard" as we hire some stupid no one and go through this bull for another 4 years. while other schools pass us

CompleteLunacy

December 1st, 2014 at 1:56 PM ^

I understand the impatience and the "why the hell isn't the guy fired" reactions people have.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just more willing to let it all play out before I pass judgment. At this point literally NOBODY has a clue what's happening behind the scenes. Waiting is usually a recipe for disaster, but then again, most coaching searches also don't involve going after a guy who is having a plethora of success in the NFL.

Honestly I'm so apathetic towards Michigan football that I find it hard to get angry or hopeful about any of this. Until something happens, I will reserve judgment on whether Michigan is handling this the right or wrong way. Any proclamations on the contrary are pure conjecture, and I think we need to resist the urge to criticize those in charge right now when already so much has happened this year (I mean, who fires an AD literally in the middle of college football season after protests and angry emails?)

 

UofM Die Hard …

December 1st, 2014 at 3:02 PM ^

Thats whats makes me sad...I just find it hard to care about Michigan football anymore.  In the hay day I would need some alone time after a loss and it took me a good while to get over it.  Now I am struggling to even feel any emotion, I turn the game off and give two shits about it.  I dont bicker back and forth with friends on what they should have done or the great plays that were made...none of that is happening and it makes me sad.  I want that back so badly.  

MGoBlue100

December 1st, 2014 at 11:12 PM ^

My wife still talks about the Colorado Hail Mary. Not the play. She couldn't describe that if you had her watch the replay ten times in a row. However, she can describe my reaction to the play (in a bar in Petoskey, not one of my better moments) in great graphic detail. I'd love to care about it again. They need to give me a reason to do so.

evenyoubrutus

December 1st, 2014 at 1:51 PM ^

I remember when Brandon was first hired, those first few months he seemed so down to earth.  It turned out the opposite was true.  Does that mean Hackett is actually REALLY REALLY down to earth?