Good to hear. Can't wait to see for myself!
"How many balls can we play with?? We need to play the actual hurry up this year to get all these guys some touches."
Say What? Like a quickie?
About all players. Denard is supposedly alot more polished at QB than he gets credit for - which should make for a very interesting and exhilariting few years at the QB position. While I'd like to see Tate solidify himself at the starter spot and Denard play the "Percy Harvin Position," I think Denard's athleticism could be a great asset at QB, especially if he develops well. I'd like to see a Tebow-Leak situation.
Disclaimer - Obviously, judging by my photo, I'm a Denard homer. I've always thought this kid has extreme star qualities. If only he could grow a few inches.
From what I've heard about what's going on with the team, I really do feel that this is going to be vintage Rich Rodriguez - a horrible first season mirred by culture shock, and then marked improvement once he installs his his "pieces" and culture. I really think the sky is the limit with these guys.
Just like what Rick Leach said - Dantonio, Tressel and Weis should be shaking in their boots right now.
Hell, I'll even go so far as to through Urban Meyer, Pete Carrol and Les Miles into that equation.
It's shaping up to be a great few years.
certainly served notice to Mark Richt in the '06 Sugar Bowl, and although he wasn't coaching in the Fiesta Bowl v. Oklahoma, lets not ignore the fact that that team and win, no nono, that BLOW OUT, was all set up by Rodriguez.
denard will get his chance. It is shocking to have a track star as a QB at UM. The world is upside down. I am hoping for stunning plays from him a la Vick at VT. Any chance of that?
For all the bashing the team has endured the last few months I think they'll surprise quite a few people when they hit the field in the fall.
Good to hear! Is it Sep yet?
Still 49 days. I don't know if I'll make it.
good thing for Wolverine Historian.
They just showed the 2003 texas-ttech game...TTech looked a lot like what I envision Michigan to be this year. A whole bunch of fast little buggers in the slot (Welker, Henderson, etc.) and also playing RB. Those little guys were breaking ankles out there...and not just any ankles...I'm talkin about guys like Derrick Johnson.
Pretty exciting possibilities to consider...
Fluff is underrated. I like it better than a lot of the "real journalism" we get about the program's academic standards, family values and such.
Amen. Tell it like it is. Kool-Aid and fluff for me. If this years team is as good as I think they're going to be, that Kool-Aid and fluff is going to magically turn into bread and water. Eat, drink, and be merry, cause tomorrow is still 7 weeks away.
I also try to tame the excitement .. but i have to agree that if Tate can be a solid QB then the talent around him can shine because it is there ... I hope we really get Koger involved because he is a serious matchup problem for defenses .. and i feel like we have solid depth at offensive positions.
I get the feeling that Tate really could be ahead of schedule so much because of the way he went about his high school years .. being tutored and attending many camps ..lets hope he really is because if so ..The program will be way ahead of schedule
Don't complain about the validity of what I am about to say. It is what it is.
I am related to a friend of Moundros. The information here is passed on from him: In practice, Tate does a good job of listening to advice as a freshman should, but he is beginning to assume the leadership role of a senior QB. If Tate stays healthy, there is no way Denard passes him by the fall. Denard has a ton of natural ability, but he has alot of ground to catch up on.
Also, I have been told that Tate's accuracy and timing on short throws (which are important in this offense) are possibly better than Chad Henne's. Oddly enough, one area he could improve on is downfield passes (?!?!).
but it didn't look like Tate had any problems with downfield passes at the Spring Game. He was right on the money. But what got me excited was the crispness of the short to medium passes. They were right in stride and thrown with some zip. That's a huge improvement over the looping Sheridan pass or the 8 feet too high of Threet.
I was surprised to hear 'downfield passes' as a possible area for improvement. The good news is the mid-range accuracy and timing (both are equally important).
When you are bringing it from almost hip-level, as Threet was, you are going to overthrow a lot.
Even though I believe what you said, but how come all of a sudden more people say they have this inside info? Plus last year, Fred Jackson said Forcier has better arm strength than Heene.
I can't vouch for anyone else posting here, but RR allows a little more access to the program than Carr did in general, so it might make sense that more people would have inside info.
Yeah I understand that, bu in the last week or 2, people writing about their inside info. But I don't mind.
Mgoblog does have the reputation as the best UM blog, and probably has the most traffic. So it's only a matter of time and math before we get some insiders here.
There's no way in hell Forcier has a bigger arm than Henne.
I remember the Fred Jackson quote too, I think it was that Forcier's arm was comparable to a young Chad Henne. However, I believe the accuracy part.
Jackson did favorably compare Tate's arm strength to Henne, but did not say that his was stronger.
I'm not surprised Forcier has passed Henne on short passing accuracy, what with Tacopants having graduated.
I hate to say it but our success will be predicated on whether or not our fresh qb cost us games. We all know tp wasn’t that good last year, but he didn’t lose them games despite osu not being that good. Sheridan and Threet however, (not so much Threet) did. If Forcier can extend drives to around an avg of 8+ plays a series and avoid making turnovers in Michigan territory, we’ll have a shot at the B10; no question. The fact he’s a freshy scares me to death b/c of history’s statistics involving true fresh qbs. Let’s not forget he still has to get hit. I’m excited though!
On a side note you gotta love Tate's swag! Whether it's confidence or cockiness, I’m loving it!
To be successful in this offense, the QB has to do more than 'not lose games'. He has to be a playmaker. He is the triggerman, and no player on the field is more important. It's almost like the Phoenix suns trying to win without Steve Nash.
If we had a pro-style offense, then I would agree with you.
I think what you said about Terrelle Pryor is exactly backward. TP was good (60% completion, 12:4 TD:In, 145ish QB rating). He did, however, cost them the Penn State game where he tried to make a play and ended up fumbling and turning it over.
On a more general note, and this is not directed at you per se, why do people feel like saying Terrelle Pryor sucked last year? I was pretty impressed with how well he did being a true freshman in a high pressure situation. I think he is going to be something special and that really sucks.
I’m actually in the minority I don’t think he was bad, but I also don’t think he was that good. He was sort of kreig krenzel (sp) like to me when it came to not winning the games, but also not costing them games. That’s what I mean. Maybe I should have referred to someone else?
I agree with your overall point. RichRod has talked more than once about the ability to "Manage the Game" being so very important for a QB. On the plus side RR was impressed with both Tate and Denard's game management skills.
if Michigan had TP last season, Michigan would've had at least 8 wins. Let's not kid ourselves, TP is a very good football player. The QB means everything in college football.
agreed. He was not bad (expecially under the circumstances) last year as a Frosh and with the exception of the PSU games I don't think that he lost any games for them. I just do not think that he was as good as the hype said he was. I heard Herbie on ESPN saying that he would be in the Heisman race this year and I could not help but laugh. Good yes, but Tebow he aint'.
I wouldn't say he sucked, but I also think he isn't as good a quarterback as his stats make him out to be. It's similar to Henne during his freshman year in that he had great play-makers around him take pressure off him and make up for his mistakes. Additionally his scrambling ability made up for a lot of his short-comings as a qb. There were numerous plays where he would have likely been sacked if he couldn't scramble and give his good WRs time to improvise and get open. While that's a great skill to have, it doesn't make him a great passing qb.
7 of Pryor's 12 TDs came against Troy and Northwestern and in his last two games, Michigan and Texas, he was a combined 10 for 26 with 2 TDs and a pick. His QB rating was no where near the 145ish you claim as he only came near that number once against NW with a 147 and his next highest was a 129 against MSU throw in 5 games under 100 once he became the starter plus all 3 under a 100 when he wasn't starting and your 145ish rating is absurd.
I'll hold off judgement until after this year because teams aren't going to be loading up the box to stop Beanie. I think OSU will have to average more than the 14.8 passes they attempted with Pryor starting last year. TP is a great athlete I'm sure about the QB part yet.
You're right. 145ish is absurd.
So I guess it was more like 146.5. Maybe we are looking at different stat lines I don't know.
I understand your points about padding stats against lesser competition and about how his real test will come this year without Wells. I agree with both of these.
I still think he is a pretty great athlete with amazing upside. If he develops into just a good quarterback, with his athleticism OSU will have a very serious weapon.
I think Forcier makes better decisions than Pryor, and makes them at least a half-second quicker. In addition, RR's offense will take advantage of Forcier's shiftiness, while Tressel's offense doesn't take advantage of Pryor's speed. Also, the better you know the offense, the faster you are in football speed.
All of this adds up to a much better season in Ann Arbor than many anticipate, especially that little game in November.
Normally I would agree about the QBs job being "not to lose", but this year we are going to have to score a lot of points to hide what will probably be a pretty bad defense. There is going to be a ton of pressure on the offense each series. I can see us getting into situations where we fall behind by 14 and the offense goes into meltdown trying too hard to get back into it.
Three factors will lead to many more victories in '09.
Less turnovers = longer drives, less time for D on field and less easy chances for opposition to score
Better QB = longer drives, more points, more time with the ball, less time for D on field
Less thinking/more playing = quicker decisions, better spacing and more big plays
If the O line has progressed as speculated, the QB position does not = DEATH and the special teams doesn't turn the ball over every third time they touch it, the defense won't have to be some kind of savior.
The QB doesn't have to win games by himself, just not lose them. Let the veterans carry the load. Minor, Brown and Savoy need to be healthy and productive all season long.
If these things happen, many will be pleasantly surprised in November. I see potential for 8-9 wins if these things happen.
Go 4-0 and MSU is very beatable, 3-1 or 2-2 and MSU will be extremely difficult. If they get past MSU and are 5-0, it could be a great year. No matter what... GO BLUE
can drastically reduce the turnovers, Michigan will double last year's win total. Even if their just average on both sides of the ball, limit the turnovers and 2009 Michigan will be leagues ahead of last year. The QB's were bad but the turnovers absolutely sucked the life out of the 2008 team.
meant to say "they're" in my post above. Sorry to waste a post on this but I take too much pride in my grammar and spelling not to rectify the situation.
There is an edit button for things like that.
Totally agree with your analysis but I still feel I need to spike the kool-aid with a shot or two of hubris; before I have any confidence in my 8+ win prediction, I want to see what they do against ND.
I feel that _competent_ play gets us to 6. Anything beyond that would be indicative of the underlying talent we have on this team, in conjunction with limited errors.
I think we have the players to make this a reality.
C'mon you're kidding right.
I will probably get hammered for this, I am a little concerned about "Tate's swag", it seems a bit orchestrated to me. I'm hoping Tate's ostentatious display of confidence holds up under fire. A couple incidents stick out for me that cause me concern.
The Paulus episode and Tate's reaction directly contradicted the "swag" Tate shows on other occasions. Tate seemed unusually worked up over the possibilty of another QB showing up in the fall.
Tate pretending he did not know who Denard Robinson was and he didn't know Denard's name. I did not find that whole episode credible and seemed like much unneeded bravado. Also comparing himself to Colt McCoy but with a better arm, gives me pause for concern.
Finally the whole Forcier family propaganda machine I find disconcerting. I think Tate and his brothers are put under too much pressure to live up to unrealistic expectation of others. I would much prefer to see Tate exhibit his "swag" on the field.
I think Tate is under a tremendous amount of pressure to perform at a high level as a true frosh, I hope he understands that there is going to be ups and downs, good times and bad, and he needs to persevere thru it all, cause it ain't going to be easy. Most of all I hope the fans and his family let the kid breathe.
Interesting observation. I think you might be right, but if the goal is to win football games, I don't think it's much to be worried about. That is, I would believe that Tate's braggadocio is just that, but that's not a bad thing.
I would liken it to the preposterous "no one gave us a chance, it was us against the world" pose struck by so many top-flight pro athletes. Of course it's all bs, but if it comes with the territory of being a hyper-competitive badass, then I'm all right with that.
Maybe in 5 years when the program is fully in place I'll long for the aw-shucks humility of a John Navarre, say. Right now I want to win some games, and I feel good about our chances with Tate, Marinoviched and QB-Forced though he may be.
I like the fact that he’s sure of himself, but the swag I was referring to was on the field. Maybe I should have chosen another word; my fault.
There are three positions I really like to see populated with extremely cocky people:
In the testosterone-fueled world of football, leadership positions pretty much demand swagger. Putting myself in the position of someone playing on the offensive side of the ball, I certainly wouldn't want a HC or QB to tell me that a play "might work" in a crucial situation. I would want him to tell me he has it under control, all we have to do is execute, and it's definitely going to work.
If Forcier is cocky enough to lead effectively but doesn't piss off his teammates with his ego, that's great. I truly think that confidence is as much as 90 percent of the battle at that level.
As long as he walks the walk, he can talk the talk as much as he wants; that's pretty much the credo of the modern athlete, anyway.
on the denard thing, it's entirely possible that he didn't know who denard was before he met him/was told about him by the coaches. the coaches really weren't pressing hard for denard before they lost beaver. the family thing doesn't put any more pressure on them than TP calling all those press conferences does.
as for the greg paulus thing, he's still a teenager. if someone put a mic in your face when you were 19 what types of things would you have said?
Question "if someone put a mic in your face when you were 19 what types of things would you have said?"
Answer Something stupid I suspect, and ain't much changed.
I think Tate is a helluva lot more mature than I was at 19, I still have concerns though, rightly or wrongly, wrongly I hope.
I will admit to having the same concerns at times, however; He didn't say that his arm was better than Colt McCoy, he said that he hoped to be the same type of qb IIRC.
If there's ONE thing this team needs right now, it's swaggerificness. Good teams think that they're good and other teams fear them because of that.
I really doubt a freshman has "taken control of the team".
Taking control of the team might be a bit much, but it might be a sign that he is confident in his abilities. If he is willing to direct the offense rather that poop his pants (like we saw last year), it will show a level of leadership that our offense needs badly. When a team isn't confident in its QB, it folds under pressure.
at this point, he's not really a freshman in the traditional sense. idk that he's "taken control of the team" but i know he's well past where people thought he'd be. people believe in him at the very least
Good to hear.
I just hope that the offense can help support the defense that I think we may be lacking this year. I think its going to be a couple of years before the defense under Robinson starts to show a hint of what he did at Texas a few years ago. You gotta have faith in the Forcier!!!
The problem with the defense is the lack of depth. I think the first teamers will be pretty good. However, any one of them goes down, and now you've got an inexperienced guy with less talent. The drop off from first to second is too big right now. I still think this defense can be good, but they'll need some breaks, and not the physical, bone type.
don't signify to me that Forcier is "too cocky" or being presumptive, they tell me something we could all see last year: there was no functional leader (at least on the offensive side of the ball). This is not to shit on anyone from '08, really. It's simply to say that, from all reliable accounts, we were struggling for some center-of-gravity throughout the entire season. The staff was allegedly far more irritable last year than they are this year, the quarterback position was a place of tension (to put it mildly), and there was the general stress of suffering through the worst season in our program's history. In other words-- everyone was new, and we lacked the unique leadership personality that could (maaaybe, quite possibly) guide us through a rough first year. We were vacant in that spot, and Tate looks good by comparison.
Again, no criticism from this poster: changing coaches is a chaotic and disrupting activity, and I think RR and the group have handled it relatively well. But I WILL say that someone as charismatic and centrally-minded as Tate Forcier, someone who welcomes the leadership role, will be doubly prominent in contrast to the disarray that will be remembered as the 2008 Wolverines.
Of course, I have my homer-isms as much as the next man. I fall asleep most nights with visions of truly deceptive zone-reads and accurately-thrown bubble passes in my head, but that's probably because I also fall asleep most nights drunk on boxes of rose wine.
After just watching the Michigan vs Purdue game from last year on BTN, I feel even better than I did about the future of RichRod's offense. The offense was able to put up tons of points, including 28 in the first half, with Threet. Granted they did catch some breaks like the roughing the passer and pass interference on their last scoring drive, but still. Threet played semi-decently in the game, and the offense flourished. However, a lot of his throws could have been improved, and even more points could have been put on the board. If the offense was able to put up more than 40 points with a quarterback that fit the offense as well as golf fits Charles Barkley, imagine how dominant it could be when the qb fits the system. I am excited for the future.
freshman or not i hope this guy can step in and lead our team to some sick victories. i really hope we beat that OSU team cause im tired of hearing it from my co-workers that OSU is so much better.