Fire Jim Tressel Comment Count

Brian

[Ed: I said on WTKA this morning that I didn't think this should cost Tressel his job, but I changed my mind upon reading the Hayes piece that contained details of exactly what Tressel did in the months between April and now.]

So I was pretty pissed yesterday. It was one of those moods that's obscure until suddenly it isn't, and the moment of clarity came when one of the Eleven Warriors guy pinged me on IM, suggesting that I must be happy today. I responded that I'd be happy if Ohio State's prospects for the near future had actually been affected… and there it was.

Jim Tressel was dishonest and his team benefited to the tune of a Big Ten co-championship and a BCS bowl victory; Ohio State's response to this was to suspend him for games against Akron and Equivalent. Ask Georgia fans who watched their team stumble to 1-3 start absent the services of AJ Green how that feels:

As a partisan, my immediate reaction to the complete bullshit which emanated from last night’s Ohio State presser was a question:  what was Jim Tressel’s first thought upon hearing the news that A. J. Green had been suspended for the first four games of the 2010 season?  “Suckers“?  “There but for the grace of God go I”?

I'm a partisan too but a couple months ago I went on the Bucknuts podcast and told them I though Tressel was a top five coach who had created a problem I never thought I'd have as a Michigan blogger: lack of material. I bought the Senator act wholly. My biggest complaint was that he was boring beyond belief.

I've now reverted to default partisan conspiracy-mongering and hatred. It's hard not to when the mea culpa press conference features Tressel lying his ass off about emails now in the public domain, forcing out stumbling answers that are such obvious crap that not even the state of Ohio thinks Tressel got what was coming to him:

image

Even the deepest red section of the country looked at OSU playing see-no-evil to a BCS bowl victory and said "uh-oh." In no way is OSU's response proportional to the crime. That's what pisses me off. Michigan eventually proposed penalties that were reasonable given precedence and were accepted essentially as-is by the NCAA. (The committee added a third year of probation, as they are wont to do.) Ohio State proposed functionally nothing for a far worse offense. Twelve coaches have violated the NCAA bylaw Tressel did in April, and eleven were fired.

What's more, they spent the press conference announcing their gentle wrist massage lying. Tressel invented a fiction about how he couldn't look into the matter because of "confidentiality" that absolutely would not prevent him from interviewing the accused or finding out whose frickin' names were on the pawned memorabilia and then suspending them for the proverbial violation of team rules. This would not have exposed anyone to lethal payback from ruthless drug dealers or whatever, not that anyone was actually in danger.

Ohio State's trying to pull a fast one, and the NCAA should hammer them. A show-cause for Tressel is just as viable as the one widely speculated to be heading down the pike at Bruce Pearl. Tressel's lies were repeated. OSU's official letter to the NCAA lays it out. As summarized by Matt Hayes:

• Tressel signed a document on Sept. 13, 2010 that said he was not aware of NCAA violations.

• He failed to tell school officials on or around Dec. 9, 2010 about emails he received in April explaining players’ involvement in selling memorabilia.

• He failed to tell school officials about the emails — or his knowledge of players selling memorabilia — when specifically asked on Dec. 16, 2010. He also misled school officials that day when stating he “did not recall from whom he received the tip,” and that he “did not know that any items had been seized.” …

Another significant — and potentially more damning — issue: In a Feb. 8, 2011 interview, Tressel admitted it was “inevitable” that players named in the email had committed NCAA violations and would be ruled ineligible. In other words, Tressel knew the players were ineligible and played them anyway.

Whether it's a lie of omission or commission it's a lie, and Tressel's had a much larger effect on his team than Pearl lying about whether or not Aaron Craft was at his house. It is impossible to believe he did not remember the repeated correspondence from this lawyer. He probably sent it up the chain, making this a department-wide decision, but we have no proof of that. We do have proof that Tressel had at least four opportunities to come clean, starting with the day he got the first credible email from that lawyer, and failed to take any of them. As a result Ohio State won a Big Ten title.

With serious benefits should come serious repercussions; Ohio State's incredibly weak self-sanctions are an insult to the NCAA. If the association doesn't want to make themselves a joke they will come down hard on OSU with a thorough investigation stretching back to 2001 with the potential for vacating multiple years and a show-cause penalty that should make it impossible for OSU to continue employing Tressel as their head coach. That's a punishment that fits a very serious crime in the eyes of the NCAA—eleven of twelve fired before the NCAA had a chance.

The NCAA should use this and the Pearl case as a warning.

Comments

BucksfanXC

March 10th, 2011 at 4:50 PM ^

I was at that game. Behind Pryor was bleak last year. Less bleak this year. I'll give you that. I guess I just refuse to believe Tressel cares more about the on the field success than he does about the off the field success. Maybe that's because I'm a biased OSU homer. Maybe that's because I know Jim Tressel better than you do. I don't know.

GoBlueInNYC

March 10th, 2011 at 5:04 PM ^

I know a lot of people are calling Tressel's character into question (or just flat out calling him a variety of terrible things), and personally I don't necessarily agree with that. He's clearly done a lot of good outside the program and I buy that he's actually a good guy.

But that doesn't change the fact that there's been massive amounts of smoke around the program for years, and that OSU has gotten by (in my opinion) largely on the reputation of Tressel. Now there's irrefutable proof that the guy hid violations of star players and lied multiple times about it. Not only is the current situation bad, but I think it calls into question a lot about the program's last decade.

All this doesn't make Tressel a bad person outside of football, but it clearly raises huge questions about his ethics (or at least his willingness to work within the rules) regarding running a big-time football program.

MI Expat NY

March 10th, 2011 at 5:13 PM ^

Clear something up, how well do you really know Tressel?  Are you friends with him?  If he saw you on the street would he greet you by name?  If the answer to either of those questions are "yes," then you should be having a frank conversation with your friend on how he could be that stupid instead of speculating on a random message board.  If the answer to either question is "no," then you don't actually know him any better than we do.  Fans always like to think they know the players and coaches that they follow religiously, but it just isn't true.  What we know is the public image they project.  

An example from my life, is that I thought I "knew" Michael Jordan from following his career religiously, seeing all his videos chronicling his career as a kid, etc.  But if I really knew Michael Jordan, I wouldn't have been so surprised at his Hall of Fame speech that showed he was just a vindictive asshole in person.  

I may be wrong, you may actually be close to Tressel, but my guess is just that you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, you want to buy into his reasoning, you want to think that his violation didn't benefit the team last year, you want to ingore the possibility that Tressel has looked the other way for years, not because you know him, but because the image of him that you have known for years would be utterly destroyed.

MI Expat NY

March 10th, 2011 at 7:06 PM ^

But, but, that was just "competitive drive"!!

I probably figured it out before his HOF speach, but through his last game with the Bulls, I thought he walked on water.  MJ was just one of the better examples I could think of where millions of fans knew the image, not the man.  I could have gone with Tiger Woods, but before his sex life became public knowledge, he had no personality to speak of.

BucksfanXC

March 11th, 2011 at 10:04 AM ^

First of all, I'm sure whether to be flattered or offended that you compare his national perception to MJ and TW. But I like analogies, so let me build on what you've started. It would be like me saying I know MJ better than you, because I'm a Bulls fan, I spend lots of time in the area of Chicago that MJ works and lives. I go to lots of Bulls games, watch more of their press coverage than you do, and local press coverage at that. I have lots of friends that work for the Bulls, tried out for the Bulls, and have lots of direct contact with MJ. MJ wouldn't know who I was if I walked up to him on the street, but if I did walk up to him and say, "Hi, MJ, I'm so-n-so, you know my friend John from that time he was in the hospital with cancer and you came and saw him and gave him a football." And MJ would say, "Nice to meet you, how's John doing?" (In hindsight, I could have dropped the MJ bit and just said Tressel.)

But yeah, I don't "know" him, but I do probably "know" him better than you do. Much like you know RR better than I do, or Hoke. I mean, we all really only know of them, but you get to see more as a fan, being local, having mutual acquaintances, etc.

MI Expat NY

March 11th, 2011 at 12:28 PM ^

Your admission in the last sentence was really my point.  You don't know Tressel, you know of him.  And what you're really saying is that you know his image.  Sure, you may have mutual acquaintances, but unless those acquaintances are close enough to him to really know him or are willing to pass on an honest assesment, you're still probably only seeing the image Tressel wants to project.  

Tressel strikes me as a guy who plays things close to the vest (no pun intended).  He speaks without saying much, he gives the answers he knows people want to hear, etc.  He has cultivated a certain image that is nice to believe in for OSU fans.  This is what we all know of him, but again, that's not necessarily the real him.

Now, in all honesty, I'm not willing to go so far as to say that this clear incident of cheating makes Tressel a bad guy.  Being a good person and breaking NCAA rules are not mutually exclusive.  But, your defenses of him show your inability or unwillingess to think critically about what Tressel has said on the subject and how that compares to the facts, the only possible reason for your stance is a perfectly understandable desire not to see your image, of a man you admire, destroyed.

BucksfanXC

March 11th, 2011 at 10:29 AM ^

Dantonio and Pelini I think are out by virtue of already being head coaches at other Big Ten schools. I think a lateral move like that makes you look like you are giving up at the place your at, admitting defeat, can't beat 'em-join 'em kinda thing. It's not out of the question since both coaches have strong OSU ties and OSU dreams, but I doubt it.

Seth9

March 10th, 2011 at 5:23 PM ^

Did he do gain an advantage on the field? No.

Yes he did. He gained an advantage on the field by playing inelligible players. Tressel knew this was an NCAA violation and he knew that at the very least, his players would face suspensions. Furthermore, your subsequent arguments that the players were innocent until proven guilty and still could've played are incredibly dumb because they were guilty and the reason they weren't caught earlier is that Tressel declined to inform the OSU compliance office of the potential violations so that they could launch an investigation and uncover the violations. Regardless of his motivations, he covered up the violations instead of investigate them, which led to inelligible players playing all season, which constitutes a competitive advantage. That is as clear cut as it gets.

Did he do it to cover up his own breaking of the rules (like Bruce Pearl)? No.

Yes he did. He originally broke the rules by failing to inform compliance in April. He then lied about this to the NCAA in September by signing a statement claiming that he knew nothing about any potential violations. Then he lied when he claimed that he'd heard nothing about the violations during when they were uncovered in an attempt to cover up the fact that he was informed of them in April. So yeah, this is pretty much the same thing that Bruce Pearl did, only Tressel was covering up a major violation (failure to inform the NCAA about potential violations pertaining to players' elligibility), instead of secondary recruiting violations. So if anything, this is worse than what Pearl did.

What Tressel did is a firable offense. It is Ohio State's perrogative overlook this if they feel that Tressel's previous accomplishments and actions merit overlooking what he did. That said, the NCAA should and almost certainly will put some major sanctions on Tressel, as they have brought the hammar down on players for violations that were less severe. A coach is the head of a program and should be held to a higher standard.

Indiana Blue

March 10th, 2011 at 8:27 PM ^

I know the "kool-aid" is very strong in c-bus, but dude ... coaches who lie to the NCAA do not survive AND that is what Tressel did.  That is a fact !   

He skated with Clarett, and danced the TP Mercedes pleasure drives ... but he knew these players broke the rules and knew they were ineligible and then lied about to the NCAA and played them the whole season ... not to mention the BCS games (which defies explanation).  TSIO knows the NCAA's phone number .... they've call it 347 times in the last 10 years to "self report" ... its probably on speed dial !

Finally ... you add no value whatsoever to MGoBlog ( so get the fuck off our board !)

Go Blue !

elaydin

March 10th, 2011 at 4:01 PM ^

I'm not sure people realize this, but the NCAA was involved before the story broke.  If you look at Ohio State's report, the NCAA got called in back in February.

Gene Smith is very powerful within the NCAA.  I don't think he pulled the 2 game suspension out of his ass.  He had some discussions with the NCAA about it.  

It wouldn't surprise if the NCAA gave Smith a tacit approval of the penalties.  It'll be interesting to see if after the public outcry, the NCAA will increase the penalty.

GoBlueInNYC

March 10th, 2011 at 5:08 PM ^

I wouldn't be surprised if public perception came into play here, specifically in a way that works against OSU. The NCAA took something of a beating for letting the players play in the Sugar Bowl, and now it's public knowledge that Tressel basically swindled them. Add to that the massive outcry from practically everyone who isn't a serious OSU homer, and the NCAA is clearly in a "do something serious or lose all respect and credibility" situation.

Then again, respect and credibility has never been the NCAA's strong suit.

elaydin

March 10th, 2011 at 5:24 PM ^

I don't think the NCAA really cares about what the fans think.  They basically said as much when they explained the Sugar Bowl decision after the public outcry.

We'll see how this plays out, but if people think the NCAA will now step in and look at things, that's just wrong.  The NCAA already knows all about "Tat-gate".  They might find other stuff, but investigation isn't their strong suit.  

Brian makes it sound like Michigan put forth reasonable penalties while OSU made a mockery of them.  That might be true to an outside observer, but like I said, Gene Smith is a powerful player in the NCAA organization.  He would know what sort of punishment the NCAA is looking to levy.  I suspect he took that, subtracted one, and came up with the 2 game/250k punishment.

Michigan's proposed punishments were the same way.  They didn't just come out of some random punishment generator.  Well respected athletic departments have connections within the NCAA that nudge them towards certain punishments.

 

 

stubob

March 10th, 2011 at 4:13 PM ^

Tie the punishment somewhat to the coach. Especially in this case, the coach is the one responsible. Unlike SMU, the AD is merely complicit, rather than running the show. We've seen enough times with Kiffin, Carrol, Calipari, Pitinio, etc. etc. that the coaches "get fired" and then come back to another program. Tressel himself pulled this from Youngstown, bailing right before the hammer came down.

It's simply this: If the coach is the one who's ultimately found responsible, then he bares the brunt of the sanctions, and they stay with him. If a player is caught violating the drug policy, the S&C coach doesn't get punished, the player does. The university does hold some secondary responsibility for "Failure to maintain disipline", but the coach should be the one with the bulls-eye on his back.

That's how you will ultimately stop this crap: kick out the person who did it. Drop the hammer on THEM, but most importantly, drop the hammer on HIM.

hailtothevictors08

March 10th, 2011 at 4:13 PM ^

I get the feeling tOSU won't fire him under any circumstance due to his history of winning. Can the NCAA actually force him out? They don't have his contract but is their a clause where they can actually fire him without tOSU consent?

I would love to see it, but I just dont see it. In many ways, I would rather him stay and get hit with major postseason bans, scholie reductions, etc. that would eventually lead to them losing on the field. Beating the Vest would be better than just having him canned.

Alton

March 10th, 2011 at 5:11 PM ^

NCAA Bylaw 11.2.1:

"Contractual agreements or appointments between a coach and an institution shall include the stipulation that a coach who is found in violation of NCAA regulations shall be subject to disciplinary or corrective action as set forth in the provisions of the NCAA enforcement procedures, including suspension without pay or termination of employment for significant or repetitive violations."

So technically, the answer is yes, the NCAA can force a coach out.

bleedzblue

March 10th, 2011 at 7:04 PM ^

I respect the hell out of you for coming onto a rivals message board when the shit is hitting the fan. Plus you seem like a level headed fan, with no trollish intensons who gives pretty good insight into what you think. Your all good in my book, even though that means jackshit. Thanks for posting Bucksfan.

dahblue

March 10th, 2011 at 4:44 PM ^

You're keeping it brave, no doubt...and level-headed (if possible for an OSU fan)...but the current clamor isn't about what the players did.  Their actions were (technically) violations of the rules.  Tressel's actions are way worse than those of the players.  First, he's an adult.  Second, he is trained in the rules.  Third, he lied...and lied...and lied...and lied.  Finally, when it came time for the "my bad" press conference, he lied again.

GoBlueInNYC

March 10th, 2011 at 4:50 PM ^

Not to jump on the new OSU poster (personally, I think it's nice to get some outside perspective to curb the group-think now and again; though you're flat out wrong that hiding the violations didn't yield a competitive advantage), but you say that as if Michigan is unfamiliar with having high-profile recruits and star players. Which is obviously wrong. OSU is not some kind of lone victim is having to deal with outsiders trying to gain access to their players.

BucksfanXC

March 10th, 2011 at 5:03 PM ^

Oh god, not my intent. Not saying we are alone in the double-edge sword that is high star recruiting. Just saying it is, in fact, a double-edged sword.

 

And, I chose to comment on here, soley because of how great I thought it was when Michigan fans starting commenting on my favorite Buckeye sites and they were (GASP) rational, insightful, and kind. I loved the added perspective, and thought, maybe vainly, that I should try that myself.

GoBlueInNYC

March 10th, 2011 at 5:44 PM ^

I wouldn't say your attempt has been in vain. Clearly as Michigan fans we're all biased against OSU, and you're biased for OSU. I think you've made some fair points, and some points that I just completely disagree with.

All-in-all, I consider it a net positive when fans of other schools frequent the board. (Provided they don't turn troll-ish, which I have absolutely no reason to believe you will.)

08mms

March 10th, 2011 at 6:02 PM ^

Thats why the higher profile your program is, the more you need to invest in competent interal monitoring and impress upon your staff how carefully they have to monitor their program.  We screwed up with that in Practice-gate and justifiably got dinged for it, but I would be shocked if any Michigan Athletic Department in the next few decades shirks on investing in or ensuring detailed compliance.  In something like a well-run program, the minute student-athletes report that they've had thousands of dollars in cash stolen or gotten pulled over in any "loaner" vehicles, internal compliance kicks into gear, throughly investigates, intervenes with students and bans local boosters from contact with students for the love of the program. Tressel wouln't be in the situation to make these mistakes if they had rooted out the booster giving free tats before the situation arose and forbid students from dealing with him.

goblue434

March 10th, 2011 at 4:22 PM ^

this whole thing just goes to show you that osu has such low standers for its coaches the dude lied 3 times to the ncaa and to his school i would like to say if that happend at michigan he probibly would be seeing the boot i dont know for sure but bigger actions would have been taken osu is just hoping for a slap on the wrist witch they wont get !

OSU SUCKS AND LIES !!

michigandune

March 10th, 2011 at 4:32 PM ^

It will be interesting to see if the NCAA will allow the new recruits to leave the program if all hell breaks loose at OSU. Probation, coach is fired or resigns. 

Fredgoblu

March 10th, 2011 at 4:32 PM ^

OSU got a $17 million BCS payout for just making the bowl game. The bowl (presumably) broke even or made money because they and OSU armtwisted the NCAA into allowing the OSU-Five to play. Should OSU be forced to give the money back? How much? To whom? How about to the next 3-4 teams that didn't make BCS bowls because OSU was cheating?

So, assuming OSU has to forfeit all 2010 wins (M basketball / Ed Martin precedent)...then their Big Ten Championship rings, Gold Pants, and Bowl rings are all meaningless. Will it be an NCAA violation if anyone sells the worthless baubles?

The OSU-Five all promised to return next year to serve their 5-game penalty. Was the penalty harsh enough...knowing now how much OSU has gamed the system? Will they really return to serve the penalty? Is their draft status in the public domain? The NCAA should stonewall on the penalty until after draft day.

Looking back for comparison: the Ed Martin scandal was one bad man (Martin), one blind eye (Fisher), and several players on the take. This OSU mess is MANY bad boosters (free tattoos, free cars, fake jobs, cash, fake grades, and undoubtedly liquor, drugs, and whores, too), many blind eyes (the compliance department has dismissed over 300 violations), and MANY, MANY players on the take. How many scholarships did the M basketball team lose, and how many post-seasons were they ineligible? This should be the starting point for OSU discussion...just scale it up for relative severity and size of the team!!! Make them hurt!!!

P.S. Does anybody know where Tom Goss is these days? He needs to hire his construction buddies to hang a "For Sale" halo on the horseshoe...and preside over the OSU coaching search.

MI Expat NY

March 10th, 2011 at 4:51 PM ^

OSU actually only earned $4.5M or something for the Big Ten, since they were the second BCS entrant.  It was Wisconsin that earned the $17M.  I also believe that they would only have to give back their portion of the proceeds, so 1/11th of that total.  

I would be shocked if the players receive a harsher punishment because of this.  It isn't exactly their fault that their coach was warned and did nothing.  Four games seems to be the going rate for the violation, plus one for delaying it until after the bowl game.  Adding to their punishment would truly be punishing the players for the coach's/program's violations, and while that usually seems how these things work, I don't think it's right.

There are a lot of "ifs" in your last paragraph, but, if by chance much more could be proven and tied to OSU boosters, they'd be looking at USC level sanctions.  People forget that the sanctions, at least going forward, for the Ed Martin scandal were relatively light.  One year post season ban, 5 years probation, and very limited scholarship reductions.