Fall Scrimmage Roundup: Yes, Denard Comment Count

Brian

So I find myself in an extremely bizarre position: Michigan had a semi-public scrimmage on Saturday that I and a few hundred others attended after donating to Motts or buying the big baller seats. If you've been on the internet since Saturday you've noticed probably dozens of reports on message boards, the diaries here, other blogs, and one local radio host's (pretty inaccurate) tweets. Also there's a highlight video from the official site:

But they specifically told myself, MVictors, Scout, Rivals, and Craig Ross that "nothing was to be reported" from the scrimmage. This worked as well as you might imagine, leaving us on the sidelines as everyone with a username throws vague information around. So here's a bizarre roundup of things other people said on the internets and in my inbox that doesn't involve personal reporting. This lion is caged.

Quarterbacks

DenardRobinsonWMU

Popular sentiment holds that Denard is the man:

looks comfortable, made some nice throws, seems in charge of the O.  Wouldn't want to have to tackle him.

The man:

Unless something crazy happens between now and September 4, Denard Robinson is your clear starter at quarterback. The quarterbacks weren’t live today, but Robinson still managed to carve up the second-team defense (running the first-team offense, of course) with his legs and his arm. His made good decisions with the ball and his passes were on the money, and he took a QB draw 40+ yards to the house — only Denard makes that play, and he made it look easy.

The man:

He will absolutely start as he is clearly the leader on the team. He had the most energy during warm-ups, was the first one and the fastest one doing stretch drills, and was clearly the first-team QB of the day during the 'scrimmage'. He hit a nice 23-ish yard pass on a WICKED play fake to Grady. And then ran it in for another 25 or so on a QB draw, juking a DB as he went. Enough to even get the sidelines "ooh-ing".

The man:

Prior to seeing this scrimmage I was a fan of Tate and would tell anyone who asked, that Tate would be the starter. After watching the scrimmage, D-Rob will be the starter. He was much better in the pocket, made good decisions when faced with getting rid of the ball or being sacked with loss of yards, and his exchanges were very good. Think about some of the ball fakes that Juice Williams had. D-Rob isn't there yet, but he will be.

That longish pass was the a half-roll at about 2:00 in the highlights on which Robinson pulled up and nailed Terrance Robinson between the numbers and between levels in the zone. An emailer suggested that he wouldn't have believed it possible without the spring game. Also, at the end of practice they had the team run a lap around the field four times. It's "a little tough to tell" because each position group starts from a different place on the field, but 3 of the 4 times Denard was the first player on the team to finish. (Ray Vinopal seemed to win the last one.) That's "more a measure of endurance than speed."

Robinson actually got a lot less run than the other two quarterbacks, finding himself on the bench as Forcier and Gardner (and Jack Kennedy) alternated series late; when he did get on the offense would score quickly, further depressing his reps. To me that reads like the decision is already made and they are being somewhat cautious.

Conflicting reports on Gardner and Forcier. Ace's take:

Devin Gardner, running mostly with the twos, looked at times like a seasoned veteran, but he had a couple throws — including an ugly interception to Marvin Robinson — that reminded everyone he is just a freshman. His natural ability could lead to him seeing the field this year, but I think it’s safe to say he’s probably a year away from really pushing for the starting job. Really like his poise in the pocked and running ability, however, and it would have been interesting to see what he could have done if the quarterbacks were live. Tate Forcier started with the threes but saw snaps with the ones and twos as well — he looked solid throwing the ball, but made a couple poor reads on zone running plays.

Gardner came in for a lot of praise but a trusted observer in the inbox says "Gardner made a number of bad decisions under pressure." There that Marvin Robinson interception reminiscent of the slo-mo-nooooo plays last year; observer also cited a strong tendency for Gardner to panic and chuck off his back foot when blitzers got through. He suggested that in a scrimmage with more blitzing—it was exceedingly rare—Forcier would have probably looked clearly better than Gardner. While a few folk are saying there is "NO WAY" Gardner redshirts, TO thought he was at best even with Forcier and given that should watch from the sidelines. He made more big errors than anyone else.

In drills, Tate looked best, FWIW.

Running Backs

Hopkins was the name on everyone's tongue after a day spent running through arm tackles and showing surprising shiftiness. He "hit the holes and was a load to take down." Trusted Observer said he had a hard time picking out Hopkins before the scrimmage, as he looked like PJ Hill in the spring but after losing ten pounds and reshaping maybe a dozen others into muscle "now looks like a tailback" instead of a moonlighting fullback.

One negative note:

I didn't think Hopkins looked as great as everyone else did.  Not a diss on his play - he ran very hard - but I didn't see the world beater others did.  Much like the other scrimmages, all the RBs looked good, but none really stood out.  We have options in Cox and Shaw.  Though V. Smith, as reported, looks great - no noticeable effects from the injury.

Vincent Smith Ace and others also noted that Vincent Smith seems 100% healthy; you can see him dance his way down to the two in the highlights above on one of his better runs on the day. TO said it looked like he was tentatively first team with Mike Shaw second but "both those guys fumbled and I wouldn't put much stock in that."

Mike Cox continued to show that he might be the best athlete amongst the running backs, but on two separate instances he caused Rodriguez to "lose it" by cutting way back against the grain, turning a modest gain into nothing by dancing at the line of scrimmage. On one "there was a gap on the frontside but he cut all the way behind the backside tackle," losing yardage and causing RR to chew him out; on the second "RR just dropped his headset in disgust."

Toussaint did not play due to an injury.

Wide Receiver

If you're looking at playing time in this scrimmage as a signal as to which freshmen wideouts will play, your "leaders in order" are Jerald Robinson, Drew Dileo, Jeremy Jackson, Ricardo Miller, and finally DJ Williamson. Yeah, Dileo, who looked "natural fielding punts and catching the ball in drills" despite being "fricking tiny." Robinson got a lot of playing time but "dropped everything."

As for the veterans, the nominal first team was the same it was in spring with Martavious Odoms spending a lot of time outside with Darryl Stonum; Roy Roundtree was in the slot but "did not play much" probably because "they know he's the guy." In his stead Robinson and Grady got most of the playing time, with Gallon around but "not doing much." Hemingway was on the second team with Stokes.

At TE, Koger, Webb, and Moore "seemed even," with Koger suffering a frustrating drop. Robinson added one, but otherwise the starting WRs caught everything that came their way. It was mostly underneath stuff, probably because of the open nature of the scrimmage.

Offensive Line

Not much here. Molk was in a green shirt and played only sparingly (this was "precautionary"); Khoury was his backup and there were several poor snaps, two or three of which led to drive-killing fumbles. Huyge (left) and Dorrestein (right) were tackles on the first team OL. Lewan was on the second team and played beyond the whistle to the point where he got a personal foul. TO noticed Quinton Washington struggling badly in the post-practice runs, finishing last. Someone, possibly Elliot Mealer, spent practice on the bike with a red jersey. Barnum was a second-team guard and the third-team center.

Coaches kept yelling at Schofield to keep his pad level down.

Defensive Line

TO says he spent most of the scrimmage watching the offense and didn't have much on the D. He did note that Mike Martin finished first easily in the DL group on the runs with Will Campbell lagging behind. Ace highlighted Jibreel Black, who looks like a quick contributor. Another emailer said "Martin is a beast" and didn't get much playing time for precautionary reasons:

“Defensively, Mike Martin has had a tremendous camp. We limited him yesterday because we know what he can do, but he’s been really good and probably our most consistent defensive player since camp started.”

Campbell seemed to be on the third team. Sagesse sat out with an injury, though he was in green, not red.

It does not seem like Martin is moving, so everyone figure out who Greg Banks's backup is.

Linebackers

That stuff about Moundros possibly starting looks accurate:

Moundros starts in the middle, looks like he's been playing there for a while.  A run stuffer certainly.  Middle zone coverage?  Not enough data.  Ezeh also stuffed the run and took on blocks at Mouton's spot.  Roh will be a beast, but given almost all of the throws were short, his pass rush didn't have time to get home.

Not much else here. Ezeh played WLB with Mouton in green. Davion Rogers is "a twig."

Secondary

Ack. Cam Gordon, from reports ranging from some guy…

Vlad will hit you, but we all knew that.  Cam Gordon is going to be very good, I think.  Big boy.  He was in position to make two great tackles, but unfortunately didn't wrapup and was pulled off the field.  Later returned with the 1's.  Going to take some time

…to the coach

“Yesterday probably wasn’t his best day practice-wise, but other than that he’s had a really good camp,” Rodriguez noted.

…to Cam Gordon's royal we

“We were in position to make plays - I was in position - but we didn’t wrap up,” Gordon said. “I think we were all a little excited, especially us young guys to show what we could do and we had a breakdown in fundamentals. But those are easily correctable mistakes.

“Something Coach [Tony] Gibson said to me after our scrimmage was, ‘Cam, every hit doesn’t have to be a big hit.’ That’s a key for me and for all the guys. Any tackle is a good tackle. I don’t have to level somebody because in the stat book they all count the same way. I’ll get better and we’ll get better.”

…did not have a good day. Corners… not much detail. There's this:

JT Floyd looks good, Rogers looks big.  Teric Jones and Christian are your 2's.  Talbott and Avery don't look undersized, and don't look overwhelmed.  Again, hard to judge corner play given the nature of the throws.  But Christian has a way of moving that reminds one of Woodson.

If only. Floyd was pulled early, again likely as a precaution. Robinson looks good, a "big hitter and good tackler."  Mike Williams spent a lot of time playing spur, not doing much of note. A push for a job or a sure starter (Thomas Gordon) getting held out of a high-contact scrimmage?

Special Teams

No worries at punter, where Hagerup's warmups were "just like Zoltan." The section of the practice dedicated to the punt team saw the punts "go straight" and were actually returnable. All were fielded cleanly except one fumble from Terrence Robinson. Here, too, Dileo "looked like a natural," executing a fair catch with aplomb and fielding an array of kickoffs and punts cleanly.

Field goal kicking was limited, with just two attempts. Meram missed from around 40, Gibbons hit from around 35. Kickoffs landed from the 2 to 10, which is about average these days. Kickoff coverage must be run at half speed because every one was returned to about midfield and then blown dead.

Comments

w2j2

August 23rd, 2010 at 5:12 PM ^

Ezeh was a huge liability last year. 

My guess is that Moundros saw it, felt he could play better, and asked the coach to give him a chance. 

I think he did this as much for the team as for himself. 

imho.

Yinka Double Dare

August 23rd, 2010 at 5:21 PM ^

"Yeah, Dileo, who looked "natural fielding punts and catching the ball in drills" despite being "fricking tiny." "

"Here, too, Dileo "looked like a natural," executing a fair catch with aplomb and fielding an array of kickoffs and punts cleanly. "

It doesn't matter if he's tiny as long as he can HOLD ONTO THE DAMN BALL.

Twisted Martini

August 23rd, 2010 at 5:25 PM ^

They talked anonymously with some players, who despite being down on Tate for his poor offseason were saying that he consistently put them in the right place to score.  They said that Denard  doesn't have the improv ability that Tate does.  Personally, I think it will be a combination that will be tough to stop.

U of M in TX

August 23rd, 2010 at 6:10 PM ^

I guarantee (FWIW) that both QBs will be used in every game.  Each has their own strengths that can and will be used in different scenarios. Now that it looks like DR is a threat to pass, teams won't be lining up 8 or 9 in the box to stop him from running the QB sweep.

maizenbluenc

August 24th, 2010 at 9:14 AM ^

I think they give Denard the start as a reward. Maybe even against ND as well. But a few slips and the door goes wide open for Tate.

I also agree in the long run, both see significant playing time.

DG gets a series here and there, but stays under the redshirt rules unless a double calamity befalls the other two.

msoccer10

August 24th, 2010 at 11:56 AM ^

Per the NCAA website:

"NCAA rules indicate that any competition, regardless of time, during a season counts as one of your seasons of competition in that sport. It does not matter how long you were involved in a particular competition (for example, one play in a football game, one point in a volleyball match); you will be charged with one season of competition"

What you might be thinking of is a medical redshirt. If someone has a season ending injury early after playing a limited amount of time, they can appeal for a medical redshirt.

I think Gardner is going to continue to play well enough in practice to earn some playing time and Rodriguez, because he promised, will give him some snaps. I am guessing it is against UMass in the second half. We will all be upset that he "wasted" a year of eligibilty but it appears to be what he wants and is playing well enough in practice to make it a possibility.

zerocool

August 23rd, 2010 at 5:30 PM ^

I thought I read that Denard again went against the two's defense and Tate again went against the one's defense.  The spring game was public and the last one was semi-public but I was assuming at some point it would be one's versus one's.  If Denard is running against the two's, does that inflate his stock a little?  Are they putting Tate in more pressure situations to accentuate ball control and better decision making when the plays break down?  Sorry to rehash the same question raised from the spring game.

A Sexy Otter

August 23rd, 2010 at 5:54 PM ^

NO. First, the defenses and offenses were mixed up here and there. Second, Denard will be starting so he is with the ones, who will usually go against the 2's. If Tate was going to start he would also be going against the 2's. Not to you in particular but, people need to stop making up reasons that Tate will start. The coaches are just pushing him, they're just trying to fake out UConn, the wind was blowing when Tate was playing and not when  Denard was......

DENARD IS STARTING. He is the best QB on the team. Tate is 2nd (maybe 3rd)

ish

August 23rd, 2010 at 5:31 PM ^

i'm starting to worry that we used all of our awesome punter jokes on zoltan and we have another awesome punter.  someone find out if will hagerup has been in space.

The Man Down T…

August 23rd, 2010 at 6:11 PM ^

I know it's practice and all but those passes from DR were a far cry better than last year.  If he's really improved over the offseason as much as that video seems to show and can hit the open and semi-open man, then he's going to be football death to defenses. 

 

Although that run for TD, I sure hope that tackler missed on purpose or I'm going to be really worried about our defense.

 

Tate will get a good number of snaps too.  Having a QB controversy between 3 really good QB's is a lot better than wondering if the walkon is any better than that third QB left from the previous year (aka 2008).

jamiemac

August 23rd, 2010 at 6:15 PM ^

Pretty cool about Dileo.

And it sounds like if you're a DB you will play at some time. Here's hoping they find a serviceable group to go with.

Interesting embargo they put you under. I wasnt following, but whats the story wil the radio host and inaccurate tweets

mgobluebraelow

August 23rd, 2010 at 7:14 PM ^

The secondary is, once again, going to be the killer this season...

I am, however, excited about Cullen Christian.  It seems like he'll be pretty good in the years to come.

SysMark

August 23rd, 2010 at 9:18 PM ^

Dileo could be a huge plus over what we had returning punts the last few years.  If he catches everything cleanly, is shifty and tough if not blazing fast, that could be a 10 yard improvement in starting field position, with no fear or drama.

ballertim87

August 23rd, 2010 at 7:53 PM ^

He suggested that in a scrimmage with more blitzing—it was exceedingly rare—Forcier would have probably looked clearly better than Gardner.

This has helped me lean more towards red-shirting him.   I was originally under the assumption that the QB race was "Denard barely in front of the other 2", but if Gardner looked scary during the few blitzes he saw, I get the impression that Tate IS a better option under center if we were to play UCONN today.

So, he should def be redshirted (barring injury to Denard or Tate) if he is clearly behind Tate come Sept 4th.

ALSO, thank you so much for bringing all of the scrimmage observations together and expanding on them to give a more complete picture!

ryano07

August 23rd, 2010 at 8:07 PM ^

Looking for tickets to any home football game.  I have been a life long michigan  fan. But moved from Michigan at a young age and have never been to a gam.e

If anyone is looking to sell tickets at a reasonable pricee please email me at [email protected]

NorthFLWolverine

August 23rd, 2010 at 10:14 PM ^

I hope people see the difference in RR this year when he's talking with the media. I see a sense of calm this year compared to the previous two years before the season started. You see,  RR knows he has a very deadly weapon he is going to unleash on his opponents this year and that stealth fighter would be the speedster out of Florida...Denard Robinson. I think Tate is a fine QB, but his athletic ability doesn't compare to DR's. Tate will make a good backup and it is a comfort to know he'll be ready to step in when needed. But folks, wait 'til the 4th and then you'll see some unchained lightnin' runnin' around that glorious field in AA. Come the 4th, the Huskies won't know what hit 'em. Go Blue!

NorthFLWolverine

August 23rd, 2010 at 10:36 PM ^

I see a lot of negative comments regarding our defense and I don't understand why all the negativity. For one, we haven't seen them play a down yet so we don't know yet how bad or good they'll be. Second, yep, we lost Troy and that sucks, but adversity only makes a person, or in this case, the defense stronger. Coach RR says the defense has a lot of speed and if the defense is going to be good they must be able to fly to the ball. So, that is a plus. Our 'D' will be fine and will get better as the season progresses. Have a little faith ya ol' Michiganders!

slappy09

August 23rd, 2010 at 10:42 PM ^

... why/how does it make sense to play the #1 offense against the #2D and vice versa?  I wonder how much better or worse tate/denard look in the other scenarios?...  just wondering is all.

 

Go Blue

The BlackHand

August 24th, 2010 at 8:57 AM ^

 Was in the DR camp because he was the underdog. The only value I can see of DR playing against the 2nd defense is to slow it down a bit, get comfortable reading the defense, gain confidence in “completing” passes, and show the CF world that DR CAN throw the ball, so don’t block the box! Everyone in the CF world sees this...now you have to play honest D. So, unless everybody’s first D is = our 2nd D...I am not reading much into the perceived (air quotes) “improvement”. I also don’t know if he is the starter, I guess we will all find out soon.

Tate...needed to make quicker / more accurate reads as well as protecting the damn ball!...so running against the first O makes sense. He no longer has the comfort of just waiting for someone to get open. This was probably t = to a 3 Mississippi rush! Wait too long and they take your head off.

The coaches know their GRITS are on high heat! This is for all the marbles. Win.. and they live to fight another day. If they (the coaches) are betting their future at Michigan on DR as the starter and the 3-3-5 defense then all I can do is wear my maze and blue and roll with that decision.  GO BLUE!!!

  

upnorthinblue

August 24th, 2010 at 9:03 AM ^

 

Coach looks confident this year. That speaks volumes to me. The last couple years he did not hold himself the same way as this year. This tells me he knows his team has great potential.

 

As far as the secondary goes, yes we are young but if the biggest concern is that they have not seen the field yet, Ill take that every day over being poor athletes. If I had to pick a position to be young at I think it would be cb. I know that they will give up big plays but hopefully not to many that our offense can’t keep up.  Also just in my recollection from last year not many passing attacks on our schedule scare me. ND? ostate? Maybe.  

maizenbluenc

August 24th, 2010 at 9:23 AM ^

I would think the purpose of these scrimmages are more to find out who makes the two deep cut, versus who are your ones. So when guys like Molk, Stonum, Roundtree, maybe Fitz aren't in the mix, and a bunch of guys are in the mix -- then to me, that says the coaches are giving them reps and putting them in situations to be able to evaluate and make decisions.

The process from here: go back and look at the film, and then narrow down the bubble crowd for the scrimmage on Wednesday. Where again they play the guys on the edge, and then get to the final two deep.

From there they work up the two deep in preparation for UConn - installing more complexity on offense and so on.

Amaizeing-E

August 24th, 2010 at 3:04 PM ^

Of course Dileo looks puny right now hes a freshmen....but michigan has the best strength and conditioning coach in the nation in Steve Barwis so just give him time he will bulk up...Go Blue