Expect lots more of TEs Koger and Webb this year

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=162&f=1088&t=4564730

Joined: 11/25/2008

MGoPoints: 7764

Expect lots more of TEs Koger and Webb this year

Coach BT not only knows FOOTBALL but also POSTS about FOOTBALL giving EPINION. Today he posted behind the Scout paywall at:

A couple general thoughts so as to not take FOOD off TABLE of BT:

You can expect the tight ends to be very involved in the offense. Koger and Webb were two of the three best players on the field this spring (the third? B.Graham). The two of them are moved all over the place (on the line, in the slot, in the backfield).

Plus, the coaches met with Missouri in 2008 (Chase Coffman?) and Oklahoma in 2009 (Jermaine Gresham) to work on using the TEs in the spread.

TEs were used almost 3x as much this year in spring as in 2008.

My thoughts:

In the 2008 offense UFRs I reviewed in critiquing Martavious Odoms last month, Brian repeatedly wrote that Koger was wide open and Threet or Sheridan simply missed throwing him the ball. The kid is a beast.

I would expect in the first few games that the passing game is going to center on short crossing patterns, getting Koger in space, and using Roundtree/Stonum? as deep threats.

The more I read about the offense, if these guys stay healthy and Tate is just average (55% completion percentage, minimal INTs), I think we're going to be blown away by the diversity, speed, and unpredictability of the Michigan offense. It will be unlike any offense we've seen at the Big House.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:09 PM

Joined: 07/05/2008

MGoPoints: 6732

hope

yer right. We won a national championship by effectively using a great tight end- Jermame Tuman.

I'm pretty stoked about this year. My gut says we're gonna be a lot better than many think.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:14 PM

(Reply to #2) #3

Joined: 11/25/2008

MGoPoints: 7764

When you think to 2008,

realize that we were playing with what were truly awful QBs, and still were 1-2 plays away from winning 5 more games, well, yeah, I think we'll be a lot better than people think too. I have Michigan pegged at 9-3. Book that.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:44 PM

(Reply to #4) #4

jtmc33

Joined: 04/15/2009

MGoPoints: 8865

1-2 plays away from winning 5

1-2 plays away from winning 5 more games!

I think the Lions were 8-9 plays from being a playoff team last year.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:28 PM

(Reply to #2) #5

RockinLoud

Joined: 10/12/2008

MGoPoints: 10989

Interesting. My gut never

Interesting. My gut never speaks in specifics like yours. Only whether it's hungry or not. Perhaps you could share your gut-to-self communication skills.

August 4th, 2009 at 10:41 AM

(Reply to #7) #6

Joined: 07/05/2008

MGoPoints: 6732

really?

Gut: you're a fat douchebag.

Mind: shut the hell up. You're the fat one.

Gut: you're a jagoff. Blow me. After that, order some cheesy fries and a shake. His ass can still fit thru a doorway.

Oh, and we're going 9-3 this year.

Mind: OK, whatever you say.

August 4th, 2009 at 5:56 PM

(Reply to #75) #7

RockinLoud

Joined: 10/12/2008

MGoPoints: 10989

Hmmm, nope. I think I need

Hmmm, nope. I think I need more cheesy fries. But then again don't we all?

August 4th, 2009 at 4:15 AM

(Reply to #2) #8

tomhagan

Joined: 08/30/2008

MGoPoints: 105

yeah

man that boot wagle play was unstoppable back in those days... I always wondered why that play went away after Brady left...

Anyway... Imagine the gift that Koger and Webb are going to give to young Tate: An open outlet in the middle of the field that he can check down to repeatedly. What a freaking gift. Threet hit it one time last year, vs. Wisc...Id expect Tater to hit it many more times than that.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:18 PM

HartAttack20

Joined: 06/08/2009

MGoPoints: 1964

Michigan...

has always used their TEs well. I grew up watching us using them. Jermane Tuman when I was really young, Butler, Ecker, etc... That was all under carr, but still TE usage. I look forward to see how we use them this fall.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:15 PM

#10

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

I kind of doubt we're going

I kind of doubt we're going to be blown away by Koger and Webb. It's not that they're bad players - it's that they have a freshman QB and Rodriguez has zero history of using the tight ends well. I'll believe it when I see it.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:17 PM

(Reply to #5) #11

Joined: 11/25/2008

MGoPoints: 7764

And the

balloon goes....................pop.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:23 PM

(Reply to #5) #12

philgodrink

Joined: 01/04/2009

MGoPoints: 33

They're big, and they're

They're big, and they're fast; who said they're going to play a typical bookend tight end role?

RichRod has experience with utilizing a big and fast guy like Owen Schmitt. Koger and Webb can line up in the traditional position, slot out, or slide back to an H-Back type spot. All that has to be done is getting the ball to them to make plays.

All we can do is just wait and see. The tools are there, let's see how they're utilized.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:44 PM

(Reply to #8) #13

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

The tools were there last

The tools were there last year, too. It's not like we signed Antonio Gates in free agency. These are the same TEs that were on the roster in 2008, minus Carson Butler - who was just as athletic as anyone on the current roster - and Mike Massey.

Regardless, there is zero evidence to support the idea that the tight ends will be of major importance. We heard the same thing about the TEs last year as we are now.

Schmitt was a fullback, and we have a Schmitt-like player in Moundros. I'm not saying he's as good as Schmitt, nor am I saying that Schmitt was the penultimate player for that role. But there are only so many balls to go around, and this is typical pre-season talk - Martavious Odoms has a year of experience under his belt and will improve significantly, Roy Roundtree is a go-to receiver, Hemingway looks awesome, the tight ends are big and fast, Minor is a beast, Vincent Smith is a pinball, the offensive line is going to be improved, Tate Forcier is awesome, blah blah blah. Some of those things are going to be disproved when it comes to the regular season, and I'm calling shenanigans on the tight end play.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:47 PM

(Reply to #13) #14

TIMMMAAY

Joined: 09/08/2008

MGoPoints: 41397

The ability to hit the quick

The ability to hit the quick throws, screens, etc... And some receivers blocking.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:48 PM

(Reply to #13) #15

Blue boy johnson

Joined: 03/15/2009

MGoPoints: 6350

Mags, you forgot Toussaint

Mags, you forgot Toussaint and Gallon they are my favs!

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:55 PM

(Reply to #13) #16

Champ Kind

Joined: 01/02/2009

MGoPoints: 673

Penultimate?

Are you using penultimate jokingly (i.e. pre-madonna)
If not, IDTYKWTWM.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:56 PM

(Reply to #18) #17

Joined: 07/16/2008

MGoPoints: 4069

WHO-HOOOO! +1

WHO-HOOOO!
+1

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:56 PM

(Reply to #18) #18

Blue boy johnson

Joined: 03/15/2009

MGoPoints: 6350

you a dummy

he is either referring to Sidney Crosby, Mario Lemieux, or Fernando Rodney

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:02 PM

(Reply to #18) #19

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

Yeah...I meant to use

Yeah...I meant to use "ultimate" and typed "penultimate" instead. I need more sleep.

But instead, I think I'll stay up and read more about Michigan football. Hooray!

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:08 PM

(Reply to #13) #20

jmblue

Joined: 11/07/2008

MGoPoints: 56299

The tools were there last

The tools were there last year, too.

Not at the QB position.

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:22 PM

(Reply to #27) #21

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

...and how is that different

...and how is that different from this year? So far Forcier and Robinson have combined for zero snaps in college, and Sheridan was pretty horrible last year.

Like I said in another post, Forcier will be better than Sheridan and Threet were, but that might not make much of a difference.

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:47 PM

(Reply to #28) #22

jmblue

Joined: 11/07/2008

MGoPoints: 56299

Last year we had guys trying

Last year we had guys trying to play QB. This year we have an actual QB. A TE is often a young QB's favorite target. Now that we have someone who can actually throw the ball to Koger/Webb, we may use them.

August 4th, 2009 at 12:09 AM

(Reply to #38) #23

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

A tight end is often a

A tight end is often a veteran QBs favorite target. A lot of young quarterbacks are too scared (or their coaches are) to throw the ball over the middle, because there's so much traffic. Forcier is only 6' tall. I don't remember any catches by the tight ends in the spring game (were there any?).

August 4th, 2009 at 5:11 AM

(Reply to #51) #24

The King of Belch

Joined: 07/21/2009

MGoPoints: 8

I Agree

Magnus, you are dead on with your assessment of the tight end position this year. Right now it is wishful thinking that Koger and Webb will have breakout seasons with a freshman QB in there. I know Tate is the Savior, but I'm betting he will have a pretty limited playbook well into the season, and we'll see Koger and Webb doing a lot of blocking for the running game, rather than catching too many passes.
Points abound, except for the use of "penultimate," of course.

August 4th, 2009 at 7:33 AM

(Reply to #51) #25

Joined: 11/25/2008

MGoPoints: 7764

I wouldn't put too much stock in the spring game's

play packages for the first team (although I would for Tate's performance - yes I am being selective here). I remember reading they purposely went vanilla so as to not give away what will be their decided schematic advantage this fall.

So, if they were implementing a TE-heavier set to be used in the fall, we wouldn't have seen it in April. After all, we only saw Tate throw 14 passes.

August 4th, 2009 at 12:02 AM

(Reply to #13) #26

The Impaler

Joined: 07/28/2009

MGoPoints: 1000

Dude you need to buy into the

Dude you need to buy into the hype. It's almost fall camp, get amped.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:41 PM

(Reply to #5) #27

MGoObes

Joined: 07/05/2008

MGoPoints: 1122

it is

telling that they met with mizzou and OU the past two years to discuss (in part) how to use the TE in the spread. on top of that they ran more sets using the TE during spring ball. i doubt they'd go through all that trouble then not use those guys.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:56 PM

(Reply to #12) #28

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

This doesn't really refute my

This doesn't really refute my argument. They've visited with teams that use the TE in the spread the past two off-seasons (i.e. prior to the 2008 season)...and yet we didn't use the TE last year.

"But we had inexperienced QBs last year," you might say.

I see your inexperienced 2008 QBs...and I raise you two inexperienced 2009 QBs. I have full confidence that Forcier will be better than Sheridan/Threet, but that doesn't mean he'll be allowed/asked to utilize the middle of the field where the tight ends roam.

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:04 PM

(Reply to #21) #29

wishitwas97

Joined: 01/29/2009

MGoPoints: 91

RR has used TEs last year a lot more

than what he had done at WVU.

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:26 PM

(Reply to #26) #30

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

True...and yet I think Koger

True...and yet I think Koger had 3 catches, Butler had 1 or 2, Webb had zero, and Massey had zero. So that's not saying a whole lot.

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:36 PM

(Reply to #30) #31

wishitwas97

Joined: 01/29/2009

MGoPoints: 91

it's not about the stats

it's more about the way that RR utilized TEs. He put them at slot WR, standard TE position and even at FB last year. That's a lot more than what he had done at WVU.

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:52 PM

(Reply to #34) #32

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

Putting a TE at slot does

Putting a TE at slot does nothing for your team if you don't throw him the ball. And after Odoms, it was basically Toney Clemons or...uhhh...Ricky Reyes at slot. I'm not surprised that he chucked Koger out at slot for a play here or there.

Regardless, pre-season hype is all fine and dandy but you're all getting caught up in the hype. This type of thing happens every year where a bunch of people start to believe that practice buzz and off-season tinkering will amount to something...and it happens every year where one or more of those dreams gets shot down.

All these positives things that you (the collective you, not the individual you) want to happen, they're not going to happen. A few will; a few won't. I don't know why it's so hard to believe that maybe, just maybe, everything won't be peachy keen.

The OPTIMISTIC predictions around here say we'll go 8-4. If we go 8-4 despite having a savior at QB, great tight ends, an awesome offensive line, great play at slot receiver, the Big Ten's best running backs, beasts all along the defensive line, a 2010 draft pick at one corner and a great corner on the other side, improved safety play, and a huge turnaround by Stevie Brown...well...if we do all that and still go 8-4, we sure got fucked by some shitty referees, didn't we?

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:58 PM

(Reply to #42) #33

Shoelace Robinson

Joined: 04/10/2009

MGoPoints: 53

Chill out

August 4th, 2009 at 7:36 AM

(Reply to #42) #34

Joined: 11/25/2008

MGoPoints: 7764

Magnus -

You wrote:

Putting a TE at slot does nothing for your team if you don't throw him the ball.

I bet it will if you run a quick RB screen, or a QB roll out, or a RB sweep. You can use your TE in the slot to either be a release on the pass or as a lead blocker.

August 4th, 2009 at 8:41 AM

(Reply to #65) #35

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

Yes, but if you never throw

Yes, but if you never throw the ball to your tight end, then it becomes painfully obvious that it's a quick screen or a toss. That's something a defense would recognize from a scouting report.

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:58 PM

(Reply to #34) #36

Joined: 06/05/2009

MGoPoints: 3696

Its like ND last year when we

Its like ND last year when we lined up a full back with a tail back, it was always a run there was never any deception no play fake, just lining up a TE in a new spot on the field will not deceive anyone if they have never been thrown the ball prior.

We could have put 2 LBers in the wide out positions and we still would have been running the ball.

August 4th, 2009 at 6:44 AM

(Reply to #30) #37

Maize and Blue ...

Joined: 03/15/2009

MGoPoints: 6186

Webb had zero

because he hadn't grasp the O or what it took to play big time college football yet and Koger was a true freshman. Massey was coming off of an injury and Butler well.... Early in the season the O line play was pathetic so if TEs were in they were used to block. Enough has been said about the QB play or lack there of.
Generally, I'm a show me type of guy like it sounds like you are Magnus but, I also believe RR will utilize all of the tools at his disposable. If they are going to have Tate or Denard rolling out the TE dragging across the field should be a great target and after the lack of TE catches last year a break out year could result in what 25 catches. Seems feasible to me.

August 4th, 2009 at 8:36 AM

(Reply to #63) #38

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

I'm not saying it's

I'm not saying it's infeasible. I'm just saying that too many people are jumping on the TE bandwagon with zero evidence to support their claims.

And going to back to your reasons why those guys didn't catch any balls - it's not like Webb is suddenly a genius at running the tight end position or Koger went from being a frosh to a fifth year senior. These guys are still somewhat young and inexperienced. And a big reason you didn't include is the fact that they had a RS sophomore, 6'1", noodle-armed QB and a RS freshman, 6'6", rocket-armed but inaccurate QB.

Take those guys and remove a year of maturity, subtract a little bit of height, give him a rocket arm, add some speed and QB coaching and...voile!...you have Tate Forcier.

Nobody has refuted by three biggest arguments:

1. Tate is short, which makes it more difficult to throw over the middle due to sight lines and DL being able to swat down the pass.

2. There is more traffic in the middle of the field, which makes decision-making extremely important; true freshmen and good decision-making don't typically go hand-in-hand.

3. There's no on-field evidence of Rodriguez being extremely interested in the tight end, other than visiting a couple schools. I went to a clinic on running a 4-3 defense - that doesn't mean I run it.

August 4th, 2009 at 9:39 AM

(Reply to #68) #39

Blue in Yarmouth

Joined: 02/18/2009

MGoPoints: 5720

Magnus, for the most part

I enjoy reading your posts, you are always frank and to the point. I am also most often in agreement with what you have to say. In this case, however, I have to disagree.

You said "I'm just saying that too many people are jumping on the TE bandwagon with zero evidence to support their claims."
I would say that they are basing these assupmtions on the evidence that is currently at hand:

Defense ehibit A- RR and company have visited two schools to determine how to better utilize their TE's

Defense exhibit B- Koger has been interviewed a couple of times and spoke about how the TE's will be more involved in the passing game this season

Defense exhibit C- Their have been countless interviews with coaches where they speak about the increased involvement in the passing game.

Prosecution exhibit A- personal testimony that it will not happen with zero evidence offered other than the statement "Regardless, pre-season hype is all fine and dandy but you're all getting caught up in the hype. This type of thing happens every year where a bunch of people start to believe that practice buzz and off-season tinkering will amount to something...and it happens every year where one or more of those dreams gets shot down."

It sounds more like you are basing your opinions on the fact that not everything people say comes to pass. This is true but you have no evidence to say that this point (regarding th use of TE's) will be one of those things that doesn't happen while most of your opposition in this debate have in fact offered up evidence.

Jury's verdict.....Magnus is banished to the quite room to think about what he has said.

In all seriousness though, idk if they will use the TE's more this year or not, but if I am basing it on the evidence at hand I would have to agree with those who say they will.

August 4th, 2009 at 10:43 AM

(Reply to #70) #40

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

re: Defense Exhibit A The

re: Defense Exhibit A
The coaches visited before LAST season, and our TEs had a whopping four catches. Even if the coaches doubled their knowledge of tight ends this offseason and, therefore, the production of those tight ends, it would be EIGHT catches. That's 3/4 of a catch per game.

re: Defense Exhibits B & C
The coaches and tight ends said before LAST season that the tight ends would be used more. Magee said in several articles that they had never had the athleticism at TE that they had at Michigan...and our TEs went out and caught four passes.

re: Prosecution Exhibit A
I don't think you've been reading all my posts. I've said repeatedly that a) Forcier is short, which impedes the ability to throw over the middle, b) Forcier is young, which makes the player and the coaches wary of throwing over the middle, c) there's no past evidence to suggest that the TE will be used frequently, d) the TEs didn't catch a single pass in the spring game.

My argument has WAY more evidence than the opposition. Defense Exhibits A, B, and C all have to do with clinics that the coaches attended or statements made to newspapers. Prosecution Exhibits A, B, C, and D all have to do with things that have happened/do happen on the field.

Regarding Michigan's last three first-time starters, Henne's tight ends had 33 catches in a pro-style offense. Threet/Sheridan's tight ends had 4 catches. In 2000, Navarre/Henson's tight ends had 20 catches, although I'm not sure how many came from Navarre or came from Henson as a junior. That's an average of 19 catches per season. (I didn't go back beyond that because I got tired of doing the research.)

August 4th, 2009 at 12:15 PM

(Reply to #76) #41

Rush N Attack

Joined: 07/07/2008

MGoPoints: 556

Magnus. This thread would have been much shorter...

(and admittedly less entertaining), if you would just type:

"Nothing any of you say will cause me to change my mind on this matter. It is already made up."

August 4th, 2009 at 12:40 PM

(Reply to #80) #42

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

I'm sorry, I didn't see

I'm sorry, I didn't see anyone else changing their mind, despite the fact that the entire opposition to my argument is "Kevin Koger said we'll use the TE more and I'm blindly optimistic! Hooray!"

Perhaps I should be a lemming like many other people on here and just believe things because CalvinMageewentonaroadtripandOMGJermaineGresham.

August 4th, 2009 at 12:54 PM

(Reply to #81) #43

TIMMMAAY

Joined: 09/08/2008

MGoPoints: 41397

Chill out Magnus

If you really think that was the entire opposing argument, then you either didn't read anyone else' post, or you're just being stubborn. I wonder which one it is?

August 4th, 2009 at 1:01 PM

(Reply to #82) #44

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

I was obviously exaggerating,

I was obviously exaggerating, but I don't like it when people accuse me of a "Dammit, I won't change my mind" attitude when nobody else is changing their mind, either. My argument has been backed up with a significant amount of evidence and rational thought.

August 4th, 2009 at 1:33 PM

(Reply to #83) #45

Rush N Attack

Joined: 07/07/2008

MGoPoints: 556

Easy Magnus.

I wasn't accusing you of anything.

And I don't expect (or want) you to change your opinion on this particular subject. I just thought it was amusing (but I didn't want to add "LOL" to the end of the post).

Hey, at least you have an opinion on the matter.

I have no absolutely no fucking clue how many passes the tight ends are going to get this year.

Many times I read through these posts without really having a strong opinion for either side, and I like to see the arguments play themselves out. This is one of those times.

August 4th, 2009 at 3:12 PM

(Reply to #26) #46

Joined: 07/05/2008

MGoPoints: 6732

in W VA

isn't that "done did"? As in "than what he done did at WVU"

August 4th, 2009 at 12:25 AM

(Reply to #21) #47

MGoObes

Joined: 07/05/2008

MGoPoints: 1122

nah

i wouldn't say they had in-experienced QBs, i'd say they had steven threet and nick sheridan...nuff said

August 4th, 2009 at 9:38 AM

(Reply to #21) #48

Mark

Joined: 11/26/2008

MGoPoints: 136

Addendum

"But we had crappy, inexperienced QBs last year."

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:57 PM

(Reply to #12) #49

Joined: 07/16/2008

MGoPoints: 4069

They are just setting up OSU

They are just setting up OSU to expect two TE screen plays, then we're going to totally toss that out the window and use FB screens instead. OSU WILL NEVER SEE IT COMING!

Wait, DeBord isn't the coach anymore?

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:22 PM

#50

cpt20

Joined: 11/02/2008

MGoPoints: 377

On GBMW(I know, I know)

On GBMW(I know, I know) during spring practice, they said the tight end package/formation is called Trojan for what it's worth.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:28 PM

#51

tundcivic

Joined: 05/29/2009

MGoPoints: 39

still want it

Remember that TE option play we saw Florida using last year, imagine a option-run of DRob with Carlos on the outside and Koger coming on the inside.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:36 PM

(Reply to #10) #52

chimmychonga

Joined: 12/04/2008

MGoPoints: 75

^What he said! That was

^What he said! That was seriously crazy and it pretty much never failed.

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:55 PM

(Reply to #11) #53

Goblue89

Joined: 08/28/2008

MGoPoints: 630

No doubt

No doubt! From the 10 in that play was unstopable!

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:50 PM

#54

Joined: 06/05/2009

MGoPoints: 3696

If they were serious about

If they were serious about implementing TEs in the future wouldn't the staff be offering more than one TE this year?

I absolutely love using a TE in the offense but I am skeptical of what they will actually do with them. Wasn't the last TE converted to DE, and I thought he was pretty good TE option at the time too.

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:57 PM

(Reply to #17) #55

the_white_tiger

Joined: 02/07/2009

MGoPoints: 5224

yeah, yeah, Butler.

But I think that with two TE's right now that have pretty good potential, Rich Rod will use them when they're here. If you have 'em, use 'em.

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:23 PM

(Reply to #23) #56

Joined: 06/05/2009

MGoPoints: 3696

I fully agree with what your

I fully agree with what your saying but if they're going to invest the time and work to getting the TEs to be a real threat in the offense wouldn't it make sense to back fill the position.

3 TEs is not much depth, unless there is a bunch of walk ons that I am missing, especially if your going to run formations with 2 TEs there is no depth for that to be something you can continually look towards for plays.

Our TE depth went from 6 to 3 last year very quickly with a transfer, an injury and a bad decision. And TEs are a big portion of our offense, and that limited depth definitely hindered us.

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:30 PM

(Reply to #29) #57

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

Six tight ends is way too

Six tight ends is way too many.

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:44 PM

(Reply to #32) #58

Joined: 06/05/2009

MGoPoints: 3696

Man, if there is a cursed

Man, if there is a cursed position at ND it seems to be TE. For the 2 guys who have made it through Weis's system they were both drafted and are doing really well in the NFL.

But there has been no position with a higher turnover rate on our team,
3 transfers
1 dismissal
1 done from injury
talk about high risk high reward. We would have been back to 6 TEs this season but Fauria transferred to UCLA so we're down to 5 and look to only be taking one TE in this upcoming class. For those who stay, its not a bad deal.

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:48 PM

(Reply to #37) #59

Joined: 07/16/2008

MGoPoints: 4069

Jimmah only throws fades and

Jimmah only throws fades and flys. :P

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:51 PM

(Reply to #39) #60

Joined: 06/05/2009

MGoPoints: 3696

and posts, and slants, and

and posts, and slants, and screens, and go's, and TDs :)

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:55 PM

(Reply to #41) #61

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

fly = go

August 4th, 2009 at 12:01 AM

(Reply to #44) #62

Joined: 06/05/2009

MGoPoints: 3696

thanks, I wondered

August 4th, 2009 at 8:02 AM

(Reply to #41) #63

MichIOE01

Joined: 11/19/2008

MGoPoints: 105

and INTs

August 4th, 2009 at 6:26 PM

(Reply to #37) #64

Joined: 07/05/2008

MGoPoints: 6732

you had (slightly OT)

one of the BEST collegiate tight ends ever, 20 something years ago, in Ken McAffee.

Actually, maybe the best tight end ever.

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:30 PM

(Reply to #29) #65

the_white_tiger

Joined: 02/07/2009

MGoPoints: 5224

I don't know. TE's were never

I don't know. TE's were never used much in RR's offense at WVU so, I don't know. Biggest thing is, IMO, they won't be using that formation extremely often, still a lot of three, four WR sets with a back or two.

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:48 PM

(Reply to #33) #66

Joined: 06/05/2009

MGoPoints: 3696

Well the only time I thought

Well the only time I thought RR liked using the TE at WV was essentially as a big WR in the red zone and there was something like only 3 different plays they actually got in on. Maybe its just a misconception I have.

August 4th, 2009 at 12:12 AM

(Reply to #17) #67

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

By the way, Michigan has

By the way, Michigan has offered a few tight ends this year: Alex Smith, Alex Welch, and Randall Telfer. It's just that they've all committed elsewhere shortly after receiving Michigan's offer.

August 4th, 2009 at 12:20 AM

(Reply to #53) #68

Joined: 06/05/2009

MGoPoints: 3696

I didn't know about Telfer,

I didn't know about Telfer, and I thought Welch was offered on defense? Maybe I am getting that confused with someone else.

August 4th, 2009 at 12:25 AM

(Reply to #56) #69

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

He may have been offered on

He may have been offered on defense, but if that's the case, I never heard of it.

August 4th, 2009 at 12:27 AM

(Reply to #58) #70

MGoObes

Joined: 07/05/2008

MGoPoints: 1122

smith

de-committed and is seriously considering Michigan

August 3rd, 2009 at 10:57 PM

#71

Joined: 12/26/2008

MGoPoints: 2309

They have 3 TE's

with junior eligibility or more. Brandon Moore (RS Fr), Koger (SO) and Martell Webb (Jr). It's not super critical.

And Carson Butler was converted to DE because he's an ass. You might remember him from slapping a Notre Dame guy in the head at the end of the game last year. After he served his penance for that, he wasn't going to bypass Webb and Koger, so he switched. He is a very good talent, but never seemed to put it together, either with Carr or RR.

EDIT: meant as a reply to Irish

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:27 PM

(Reply to #19) #72

Joined: 06/05/2009

MGoPoints: 3696

Oh yeah, he became someone

Oh yeah, he became someone the ND fans could continue to dislike way beyond that game and I wouldn't be surprised to see some comments as this years game approaches. Hopefully the Butlers of college football don't end up on either school's team.

Nobody looks good when that happens

August 4th, 2009 at 12:10 AM

(Reply to #19) #73

NYWolverine

Joined: 08/16/2008

MGoPoints: 1004

And Jeremy Jackson...

Tim from VB, er, MGoBlog recently scouted Jackson to possibly put on some muscle and move to TE, even pick up an extra *. Maybe there's a future in it?

I think it's obvious RR will want to do some more things to open up the middle of the field this year, at least in order to keep HR threats alive down the sidelines. If Michigan plans to open things up over the middle, my gut reaction is that RR's use of TEs will probably not be orthodox. But needless to say, visits to Missou and the hype surrounding Moore, Koger and Webb this summer add up to more than mere unfounded speculation.

August 4th, 2009 at 12:17 AM

(Reply to #52) #74

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

I know a guy who knows a guy

I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who's reliable when it comes to Jeremy Jackson, and he says that Jackson would go elsewhere if the coaches wanted him to play tight end. He wants to be a WR, even if he has to go somewhere other than where his dad coaches.

August 4th, 2009 at 12:20 AM

(Reply to #55) #75

TomVH

Joined: 10/21/2008

MGoPoints: 16654

What...

What he said.

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:37 PM

#76

TomVH

Joined: 10/21/2008

MGoPoints: 16654

I want to......

I want to know more about Brandon Moore. I realize he was a freshman last year, but he was a 4 star, highly rated. Has anyone read anything about him?

August 4th, 2009 at 12:04 AM

(Reply to #35) #77

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

I heard he has stone hands.

August 4th, 2009 at 12:28 AM

(Reply to #49) #78

Joined: 07/16/2008

MGoPoints: 4069

That's what she said?

~~That's what she said?~~

Edit: God that wasn't funny. STOP DRINKING IT'S A WEEKNIGHT.

August 3rd, 2009 at 11:39 PM

#79

WildcatBlue

Joined: 08/09/2008

MGoPoints: 503

Does anyone have any insider info on

Koger or Webb's progress with run-blocking? Minor Rage+?

August 4th, 2009 at 12:07 AM

#80

Hard Gay

Joined: 10/01/2008

MGoPoints: 1421

I dunno...

I remember all the buzz about how great the tight-ends looked during spring practice and how they were going to get so many more receptions, but i don't think they had anything thrown their way during the spring game.

August 4th, 2009 at 7:45 AM

(Reply to #50) #81

http://www.gobluemichiganwolverine.blogspot.com/

Joined: 11/25/2008

MGoPoints: 7764

First-team offense

only ran 14 passes. I wouldn't use the lack of passes to the TEs in the spring game as evidence for or against their use in the passing game this year.

My guess is that it's a new wrinkle to Rich Rod's offense that he was loathe to use last year because the protection was so awful during the first part of the year.

He's visited Mizzou and Oklahoma the past two offseasons to learn how to implement the TEs in the offense.

Chase Coffman for Missouri had 41, 58, 51 and 83 receptions from 2005-08.

Jermaine Gresham for Oklahoma has had 8, 37, and then 66 receptions from 2006-08.

If Rich Rod can get the TEs up to 30-40 receptions this year, that would be pretty decent.

August 4th, 2009 at 9:41 AM

#82

S.G. Rice

Joined: 07/18/2008

MGoPoints: 1756

Magnus, while your points are well-taken as usual, I think you're overplaying the "Tate is short" angle. All things being equal, yes, it is easier for a DL to bat down a pass from a shorter QB and harder for the QB to see downfield. But who says all things are equal? Give me a short QB with a higher release point and a line that can block to set up passing lanes over a freshMallett any day.

Really, though, nobody has defined what "lots" more production out of the TEs means. Is it double the production, which would be what, a dozen catches? 20? 30? I doubt anyone is expecting Coffmann- or Gresham-as-a-senior levels of production.

And not that anyone asked me, but I think there will be a few more seam routes thrown to the TEs and a return to the waggle with a dragging TE or slot. Lots of underneath routes. I think a TE will catch at least one TD on a play similar to the TD thrown by Sheridan to Shaw early in the Utah game. I'll go with 20 catches and 3-4 TDs.

August 4th, 2009 at 10:40 AM

#83

cpt20

Joined: 11/02/2008

MGoPoints: 377

http://www.gobluemichiganwolv

Here is what they put on today about TE's.

August 4th, 2009 at 10:48 AM

(Reply to #73) #84

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 123080

I refuse to read GBMW. It

I refuse to read GBMW. It probably doesn't mean much, but I don't give them my internet traffic. I tried to read it a couple times when there was a big MGoBlog/GBMW battle a couple months ago, and it was so useless and poorly written that I vowed not to visit again.

August 4th, 2009 at 10:52 AM

(Reply to #77) #85

cpt20

Joined: 11/02/2008

MGoPoints: 377

Lol. Yeah they suck at

Lol. Yeah they suck at writing. I just read it because it is interesting but take with a grain of salt.

August 4th, 2009 at 10:41 AM

#86

los barcos

Joined: 03/27/2009

MGoPoints: 792

FWIW, GBMW talks about the

FWIW, GBMW talks about the TEs today. i know i know, coachbt etc etc.

EDIT: ooops cp112 beat me to it. and with a link.

August 4th, 2009 at 12:11 PM

#87

MichFan1997

Joined: 08/04/2008

MGoPoints: 10339

When Koger and Webb

share the Heisman this year after each going for 90 catches and 1,000 yards with 22 TD's each, will you all be quiet?

August 4th, 2009 at 2:57 PM

(Reply to #79) #88