Every Year. Same Time. Once. The Last Time.

...whadda ya know?  I'm in Norfolk this week!  I'll just walk down to the piers and ask each pier sentry if his/her ship recently onloaded missiles.  When I find a ship that fits the description, I'll talk my way on board, discuss the situation with the CO and convince him/her that this makes sense.

Sounds like a plan!

...enlist?

I'm thankful for their similar response too.

I read that. I'd post there, but joining one UM blog a day is all I can handle.

Reading that made my Adam's apple feel the size of a grapefruit and my eyes well up. Had the referenced (other than Archie) been to great moments in OSU history, I probably would have been shaking salt water out of my keyboard.

Well said, SCM.

LMFAO.  Arguing with a Care Bear seems so wrong.

Misopogon

I have read your response and feel that you are just as emotionally invested in nostalgic beliefs as anyone else.  No one can be truly rational to this upcoming loss, since it breaks your routine as far as college football glory appears.  Your view of a winning season begins with beating OSU, and from there we proceed to bigger and better things, like Big 10 championships, bowl games, and top 10 ranks.  However, if Michigan can't get it done against OSU, it is unfulfilling.

My argument with regard to changing the date of the GAME, considers it futile to have two back to back games with OSU for the end of the year and then for the championship.  The last game will not be as competitive, because of losses from injured played and the deja vu feeling.  The common argument that that Michigan and OSU should be in the same division and play to determine, who will go on to the Conference championship game.

 You seem to labor under the belief that Michigan and OSU will have equally dominate records, when they square off, that was last true in 2006, and for the last two years, Michigan was out of the running and OSU already dominate.  It would be nice, if Michigan could play a spoiler role, like Purdue did last year, and I would applaud a Michigan victory this year as sweet, redeeming success for a team that deserves, if only because of the challenges they have met so far.  

Moving on to the BIG 10 versus the ACC and SEC, the Big 10 conference will not begin to morph into its new alignment until 2015.  During that time, we may see the additional teams, perhaps Notre Dame, perhaps other teams, but I doubt we will see the addition of a team like Texas or Alabama.  That means that the Big 10 has four historically dominate college football teams, i.e. Michigan, OSU, PSU, and Nebraska, along with other college teams, which had previous Rose Bowls wins or national championships, i.e. MSU (1965), Minnesota (1960, 1934-36 national champions, although lately they are lucky to win the Little Brown jug game against Michigan even in 2008).  The Big 10 usually has 4-6 teams go on to post-season bowls, but usually don't win the majority of the games, although last year was better.  The dominate team has been OSU for the last 5 years, beating Michigan every year, but OSU has not done very well in post-season bowl games, although they did win last year.

Now Michigan has laid claim to a total 22 National championships under various schemes (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_FBS_national_football_championship), and ignoring Princeton's 28 championships, Yale's 27 championships and Harvard's 12 championships, Notre Dame has had 21 total, OSU 13, Nebraska 11, PSU 7, where as Alabama has had 17, Miami 9, FSU 7, LSU 7, and Tennessee 7, not to mention many championships by GA Tech, Florida, George, and Auburn and even Clemson.  However, lately in the last 10 years, SEC teams has owned the top rankings, just ask Pat Forde. 

The Big 10 started the BIG 10 network to compete against SEC, ACC and Pac10, and perhaps Big 12 for TV rights with Fox, ABC, ESPN, and other networks, in search of eyeballs.  It allows the Big 10 flexibility for TV appearances, and perhaps a vehicle, if college football teams are ever broadcast real-time on the internet.  

The Big 10 teams have to complete for recruits, and one need only look at ESPN, rivals, or scout rankling of team recruiting to see that Michigan lags behind lately other teams, in contrast to earlier years.  OSU, PSU, and Nebraska have been doing better, but Alabama, Texas, USC and Florida have been consistently been recruiting higher ranked players.  

In order to compete better against, ACC and SEC, the Big 10 has to first compete better against each other, and force the dominate team to earn the right to be champion better, and later to be better able to complete in BCS championship bowl games, or at least post-season bowl games.  Bo had a great record winning regular season games, and a good record against OSU, but not so good when playing in the Rose Bowl or other bowl games.  

I will continue my response later.

Misopogon,

I will offer a second response to address your individual points:

Before you levy "emotional" at everyone who wants The Game to remain in its rightful place, why don't you actually show how moving it will change a single thing? How will it make Michigan better? How will it make the Big Ten more marketable?

You're not acting "rational" if you apply zero rational process to your argument. The Big Ten could have 100 teams in it by the time we're 60 -- still, nobody has demonstrated decisively or even suggestively that moving The Game does anything positive for Michigan, Ohio State, or the Conference.

My characterization of people's responses including your response as emotional should be obvious, since most people regret the loss of the traditional Michigan-OSU game at the end of the regular season.  I do not consider myself a lawyer, instead a physician, who has reasonable training in science and math.  I consider argument based on logical premises and experimental data, instead of rhetorical arguments as in the realm of lawyers and politician.  They are different standards, one that assumes a dispassionate objective mood, and the other depends on the emotional response as well as the objective one.  Since it is apparent, you don't like my tone, I will take my lumps, if I must, but there is a reasoned, and understandable rationale for moving the game earlier.  

First and foremost, the Michigan football schedule and season should be for the players, the team, and not necessarily  for the entertainment of the fans.  I believe if Michigan can win football games during the regular season, and during bowl games, the fans will be happy  They depend on the Michigan - OSU rivalry as a standard for a winning season.  Beat OSU, and we will generally do okay, usually that means winning the Big 10, being ranked well in the polls, and go on to play in post-season bowl games like the Rose Bowl.  Since 1990, with the addition of Penn State, there have been another historically competitive football program, and Michigan has been fairly successful in these games, but the date has not mattered.  Now with the addition of Nebraska, the Big 10 plans to add a championship game.  

For the Michigan players, it would be harsh to say, you can only play OSU once by being in the same division, and if you lose to OSU, you probably will not win the division, and then not go on to play in the championship game.  Put OSU and Michigan in different divisions, and still play OSU annually in the regular season, then allow for the possibility of playing OSU again in the championship game, if Michigan and OSU are the two best teams in the Big 10 conference, as it was in the days of Bo Schembechler and Woody Hayes.  If OSU and Michigan are not the top 2 teams, then Michigan plays the other best team in the championship.  Simple logic - should be easy to understand.  The Michigan and OSU rivalry should continue, and in doing so, in either case, the loser of the Michigan-OSU game is less likely to play in the championship game, but the possibility of a Michigan - OSU matchup in the championship game is not possible if Michigan and OSU are in the same divisions.  

As for the nature of the Michigan - OSU rivalry,  the Big 10 expansion with Penn State and Nebraska offers historically competitive football programs, that rival Michigan and OSU.  In the past the best Big 10 team went to play in the Rose Bowl against the best Pac - 10 team and a long time ago that would often decide the National Championship.  In the last 10 years, the SEC conference has been dominant  in national championships, bowl game records and in inter-conference bowl games.  Previously Michigan has had a good record against the SEC- 20-5-1 overall, and since 1994 7-1, beating Auburn, Alabama and Florida twice in bowl games.  OSU has been lousy against the SEC with 0-9 record overall.

Regular season games between Big 10 and SEC teams have been rare in the past few years, but this year OSU plays Miami (Florida) and Penn State  plays Alabama.  Michigan has not been to a bowl game since the 2008 Orange bowl game against Florida, which it won, sending Lloyd Carr into retirement and the beginning of the Rich Rodriguez era.  

Over the last decade, Michigan and OSU have frequently been decisive games, but that remain the case regardless of the date or position in the schedule.  Michigan - OSU games are usually one of the most physical games of the year.  Injured players from the UM-OSUM game would not have time to heal  in time for the conference championship game.  In the past, injured players had a chance to heal during the 4-6 weeks preceding the bowl game usually played around Jan. 1.   That changes in 2015, when realignment takes effect.  If Michigan and OSU beat each other up, and then go on to play Penn State or Nebraska or some other team, they may not be as strong for the conference championship game.  So move the UM-OSU game 6 weeks earlier in the schedule, so that most players would be able to compete in the championship game unless they sustain serious injuries like Troy Woolfolk this year or Dave Molk last year against Penn State.  

Secondly, there is an emotional letdown after the Michigan - OSU game, that takes time to recover from, whether you be a player or fan.  The rivalry is still there, people will still go to the game except for the most stubborn fans.  However, I doubt it will affect overall attendance at all.  

Furthermore, if the Big 10 expands further, such as adding Notre Dame or another team like Pitt or Syracuse from the Big East, there will be additional competitive teams to consider.  The conference record of 9 conference games will decide who goes on to the Championship game, and it makes sense to split the two most recognizable old BIG 10 teams, i.e.  Michigan and OSU in different divisions.  However, with greater parity between the various Big 10 teams, the competition will be closer.  If you crave the old days of the Big 2 and the little 8, those days are over.  Just consider the 2000 football season, when there were three co-champions - Michigan, Northwestern, and Purdue, and OSU was a close 4th.  The Michigan - OSU game decided which of the two teams would be co-champions, but every Big 10 team had at least two conference losses.  Only a rare team will have a perfect conference record in the future.  

However, I have seen traditions continue and I have seen them end, and an individual's emotional reaction have been similar to what I see above. Let's watch the 5 stages of Kuebler-Ross mourning of individual loss progress.

So your experience has trained you as a Freudian psychologist. That's cool. I'm marrying one in a few weeks. But the way she would deal with a grief progression would be to identify the cause of the grief. You, instead, are minimizing the cause's importance by applying a psychiatric diagnosis: "you are experiencing grief; you must be crazy, therefore your argument must be crazy." This is the opposite of correct.

My experience with traditions goes beyond the Michigan - OSU game.  I grew up in Ann Arbor, and have followed the Michigan Wolverines since 1970, attending the 1972 Rose Bowl game, where Stanford beat Michigan 13-12.  I still have season tickets inherited from my mother.   However, I have known the Harvard-Yale rivalry from attending undergraduate college up there, and saw the Ivy League split off from NCAA I-A football in 1981, because they chose not to offer athletic scholarships competitive with other football programs like Michigan or OSU.  That rivalry may seem irrelevant to midwesterners, but out on the east coast, it matters a great deal.  They still still play the Harvard - Yale game as the last regular season game annually, and the rivalry has lasted longer that the Michigan - OSU by many years.  Does the date matter, perhaps, but the rivalry goes on regardless of the date in other sports.  

My consideration of the Indianapolis 500 is partly personal, having attended the 500 mile race annually since 1964, and I have the popularity of the race fade since 1995 after the split of the schedule into two different leagues - ChampCar and IRL, which only got back together last year, when both league were teetering upon financial thresholds, and this year has seen them cobble together equipment and schedules.  Next year's race in 2011 will mark the 100th anniversary of the race, but its popularity against NASCAR races has dropped markedly.  As the Indy 500 is a midwestern tradition, it reminds me the loss of tradition to a more southern based NASCAR racing league with different equipment and personalities.  Not a straw man - just personal experience, which I find relevant.

As for your jibe about being Freudian psychologist, that description is bit obsolete.  The proper term would be psychoanalyst or psychiatrist for a physician.  A Psychologist  has a Ph.D, whereas  I have an M.D. along with M.S. in a basic sciences major.  Most providers in behavioral medicine generally have gone way beyond Freud and organize their assessment around a general mental status exam and the DSM IV-TR, along with clinical testing.  Psychoanalytic therapy is only one modality of treatment, and rarely used in serious psychopathology.  I dont' think you need psychoactive medication, do you?!   I trained in Internal Medicine, and my father is a retired psychiatrist.  I am pretty sure he would laugh at your characterization.   As for the Kuebler-Ross stages of grief, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kübler-Ross_model for review.    In considering your source of grief, the idea is not to perpetuate an obsession, which interferes with constructive behavior, but attempt to have realize the contradictions, or better yet, break through your self-imposed barriers.  Maladaptive behavior should not to be supported or coddled, but dealt with firmly. As for just having a regular anniversary event like the Michigan - OSU game, it's okay, just don't emphasize it out of proportion.   

However, we live in the real world now, (emphasis added) and as offensive that may seem, despite the question of money.  I am sick and tired of seeing BIG 10 Football be considered the bridesmaid to the ACC and SEC or even the Pac 10 in the BCS bowl championship, whether it be the current arrangement or a playoff.

This is where you fall apart into true trolldom. "You are living on fairy world" is not a valid argument, unless you are actually physically arguing with a Care Bear. What you don't do here -- AT ALL -- is show why moving Michigan-Ohio State to early October or whatever would make the Big Ten more palatable to SEC fans? 

Trolldom - I find the common internet definition is an  e-mail message or posting on the Internet intended to provoke an indignant response in the reader.

I am not trying to egg anyone on with this response, but I am not convinced that fixating and obsessing upon the date of the  Michigan - OSU game will help either team to compete in post season games.  You may not relate or agree with my opinion, but I consider a bigger picture than just winning the Michigan - OSU game as a winning season.  As I described above, the recent Big 10 - SEC record in post-season bowl games has been poor, and OSU has a perfect losing record against SEC teams in bowl games 0-9.

Pat Forde of ESPN had a recent article that describes it curtly - "SEC has no peer on the field" ( http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/preview10/columns/story?columnist=forde_pa... )  There is little mention of the Big 10 there, because there is little to say in favor of it.  

The point is not make the Big 10 more palatable to SEC fans, because they first must learn to respect it.  Winning games against the SEC teams in bowl games will help earn respect.  Playing and winning regular season games against the SEC would help, but the Big 10 has rarely played SEC teams during the regular season in the last decade, although OSU will play Miami (Florida) and Penn State will play Alabama this year.  If only Michigan would follow suit, and schedule a few games down south, they could help add to the respect, especially given Michigan's good record against SEC teams in bowl games.    That is not meant to be inciting indignation, just stating the facts.

Moving the Michigan  - OSU game to an earlier time, allows us to showcase the best rivalry earlier, when it allow people to see them play, and then perhaps allow them to play again in the championship game, and make them more popular as bowl game choices.  In the past the Rose Bowl has been the ultimate bowl for the Big 10, but since the onset of the BCS bowl schema, the Rose Bowl is only in rotation with 3 other bowls for the National Championship game, which has been dominated by the SEC  at least since 2006.  If the NCAA switches to a playoff of the top 4 teams with a series of three games to decide the national championship, presumably, the Big 10 champion will be amongst them, and believe allowing the best team to compete with healthy players is better than having Michigan - OSU beat each other silly, then lose to another team in the championship game, and then have them proceed to a lesser bowl.  As for OSU, they need to show they can compete and win against SEC teams, as well as Michigan in the past.

Bowl games are usually interconference games, but what if Michigan and OSU were #1 and #2 in the nation, would anyone not want to see them play for the national championship, even if that were a event as rare as a blue moon.

Right now, given Michigan status of rebuilding and being a Tier C team in the Big 10, who hasn't made it to any bowl in two years, it does not have the clout at the bargaining table.  Meanwhile, I don't see OSU worrying about the GAME, because they want to be #1 in the USA.  They can beat up on Michigan once a year, but they want to go on to bigger and better things.

Here you are absolutely wrong. I read OSU message boards. They still talk about Michigan more than anything else, literally. The prevailing argument between Buckeye fans right now is whether they want Michigan to get good again so it will be more meaningful when they beat us, or whether they want us to continue sucking because our tears taste so nice. You are wrong about the Buckeyes -- they care A LOT. In case you didn't notice, they even cared so much as to show up in droves last year, when Michigan was playing just to maybe get in a bowl, and nobody thought The Game would be competitive.

I have read the OSU blogs and message boards, too.  There is one poll that does strongly support maintaining the game as the final regular season game.  However, they are also concerned with new football uniforms, the opening game, and the prospects of Terrell Pryor as a Heisman trophy candidate.  They certainly enjoy beating up on Michigan every year, since Michigan has not won the game since 2003, and that is not a tradition I want to see continued.  However, OSU also needs to move beyond the concept of a winning season being a year, where you beat Michigan.  Sooner or later, Nebraska or Penn State or perhaps Notre Dame will get their number.  I believe Brian Kelley, formerly of Cincinnati, will offer a potent spread offense, that will give OSU and Michigan a run for their money, if not this year, then in years to come.  OSU always loves to beat Michigan, it makes them feel warm and fuzzy and full of themselves, then they go lose in the national championship game, and they say - well, we beat Michigan!  Let's end the complacency!

Michigan still has to await the decision of NCAA COI, and while most feel the current self-imposted penalties will suffice, we could easily see Rich Rodriguez put on probation or receive worse penalties.  That will lead to another coaching change, and while that may be welcomed by some, it may mean also another mass exodus of good players on offense and defense, and another phase of rebuilding.  That will not help our leverage at the bargaining table.

What bargaining table are you talking about? And what NCAA violations are you talking about? How is the practice thing, which started before RR and which Brandon has been backing RR on throughout, gonna suddenly turn around? This is Rosenbergism. Losing is the only thing that could get RR fired -- if you've been paying attention at all, this is a non-story and an even bigger non-story to Dave Brandon. Plus, you don't connect it at all to your argument for moving the game up. What the hell are we bargaining for? In the event of Michigan sucking for the next nine years, how would that at all change the meaning of the Ohio State game being played a different week?

Two separate issues are discussed here.  The bargaining table here has been the Big 10 annual meetings, where all the Big 10 athletic directors along with Jim Delany meet to discuss plans for future expansion, what to do about schedules, rules, and what to do about the TV networks, including the Big Ten Network.  Although, the athletic directors vote as equals, Michigan has carried a significant clout from the TV revenues it has generated in the past.  During the last couple years, more of their games are showing on the Big Ten Network, instead of ABC or ESPN.  The Michigan - OSU will probably always be an ABC game, and it will be showcased more favorably earlier in the season, where it will carry higher ratings and thus earn more money for the Big 10.  In contrast, the traditional UM-OSU game at the end of the season has been anti-climatic lately, and its ratings have not popped off the chart since 2006.  People are switching channels after the first half, going to other more interesting games at the end of the season.  

Second point - NCAA COI investigations - the NCAA COI continue to deliberate after the hearing in Seattle.  Rich Rodriguez has serious problems, if they place a "show cause" order, which subject the University of Michigan to further penalties, if they cannot show why there is not a reason to believe that Rich Rodriguez was not responsible for major violations.  Michigan has admitted to the first four major violations and only contested the fifth charge focused on Rich Rodriguez and his leadership role as coach.  Now that there is separate investigation at WVU including charges against Rich Rodriguez along similar lines, there is probability, not just possibility that he could be named as repeat offender, and the University of Michigan would have to show the burden of proof against his involvement in the other charges, and would have to convince the NCAA why not augment any penalties against Michigan, let alone Rodriguez.  These are major violations, not minor, secondary violations, which don't warrant a separate investigation.  If a "show cause" order is placed against Rodriguez, Michigan will have real reason to release Rodriguez as coach and begin a search for a new coach, even in the middle of the season.  So Rodriguez could win 10 games this year, beat OSU, and go to a good bowl game, but with a "show cause"   order around his neck, he could become a true pariah in NCAA football.  We will probably know about the outcome of the Michigan investigation in 4-8 weeks, but nothing is certain.  With an ongoing investigation at WVU, the COI committee may defer their final decision on Michigan and Rodriguez until they have completed the investigation against WVU.  That only makes sense, since they first have to determine if Rodriguez was responsible for violations at WVU during his tenure, and then they would go on to determine his responsibility at Michigan.  The WVU investigation is just beginning, so I would estimate another 3-6 months at least until it is possible that everything is cleared, if the ruling is favorable.  If they conclude the investigation in December or January, then the decision could cascade just before the February recruiting deadline.  If it happens after the deadline, who knows what will happen, if ruling is unfavorable.  I hope the above does not happen to Rich Rodriguez, but nothing is certain right now.

Just consider this article from AnnArbor.com ( http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-football/ncaa-accuses-michigan-footbal... )

Jim Delany was at the Michigan-NCAA COI hearings in Seattle, partly to support Michigan, but also to listen to the arguments given by both sides, so he can gather information.  If Michigan gets a penalty like USC, they could lose scholarships or bowl game privileges, which I would consider unlikely, if there is no "show cause" order or if Michigan releases Rodriguez as coach,  but may occur, if the opposite is true.  Michigan will be on probation, regardless, for 2-3 years, and they will be under close observation.  Secondary violations, normally not a problem, may become relevant.  All these factors contribute to how the rest of the Big 10 can relate to Michigan football, and what revenue streams they can generate and what expectations for a winning season.  Please, what ostrich hole have you stuck your head.  Rosenberg is no one I care to support, nor any of the other "journalists" at the Free Press, but I do not trifle with NCAA COI since the USC decision.  

As for the date when Michigan - OSU plays the game, if the OSU athletic director supports and change, and Dave Brandon tries to argue to maintain the date, but Michigan is under probation, who do you think wins?  The Big 10 can't be seen by the NCAA as supporting a team under serious penalty.  In addition, part of the penalty for the Michigan investigation might be moving the GAME from the final regular season game, although that might be done covertly as a silent quid-pro-quo.

Perhaps the change of the date will be temporary, and in a few years, the athletic departments will return the date to its traditional position.  I doubt 2010 will  be the last time Michigan and OSU will meet at the end of the year.  They will probably still have 2-3 more years of the THE GAME being at the end of the season before they change the date, but I could be wrong.  

Um, what are you trying to say? You're wrong about the timing, which is pretty clear: in 2011 the Big Ten goes to divisions and The Game is moved. If it's moved back to the end of the season, it would be because of fan outrage, meaning the outrage on MGoBlog today is justified.

	JOSH
C.J., it's a... crazy place. It's got this dictatorial leader, who I'm
sure wears a muumuu and chain smokes Parliaments. 
[makes a smoking gesture with his fingers]

C.J.
What did you go there for in the first place?

JOSH
It's called Lemon-Lyman.com.

C.J. gives him a pointed shove in the direction of his office. They walk a
few paces and stop outside the doorway.

C.J.
Let me explain something to you, this is sort of my field. The people on
these sites?  They're the cast of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest."

Donna picks up her jacket inside the office and walks out between the two
of them.

C.J. [cont]
The muumuu wearing Parliament smoker? That's Nurse Ratched. When Nurse
Ratched is unhappy, the patients are unhappy. You? You're McMurphy. You swoop in there with
your card games and your fishing trips...

JOSH
[shrugging defensively] I didn't swoop in, I came in exactly the same way
everybody else did.

C.J.
Well, now I'm telling you to open the ward room window and climb on out
before they give you a pre-frontal lobotomy, and I have to smother you 
with a pillow.

The West Wing - 
Season 3, Episode "The US Poet Laureate"  
The script transcript for the whole episode may be found here:
http://www.westwingtranscripts.com/search.php?flag=getTranscript&id=61&k...