On Erik Swenson And Talent-Based Decommits Comment Count

Brian

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Michigan's longest-standing commit is no longer one:

While that's a surprise it's less of a surprise since this week people started putting their name next to the assertion that he would not end up in the class. Mike Spath said so in a post on attrition; Wiltfong did the same at 247; Webb concurred. With Northwestern and Nebraska possible landing spots, academics are obviously not a problem.

Swenson committed to Brady Hoke's Michigan sometime during the Truman administration and hasn't wavered or visited elsewhere; like Rashad Weaver and Kiante Enis this appears to be a case where Michigan re-evaluated the players' talent after their senior season and did not like what they saw. Let's talk about how we feel about that, with the caveat that we are working with incomplete information here since neither side is offering much detail on what went down.

Editorial opinion on decommitting guys based on talent

Michigan's suffered a number of decommits this cycle. Some were not Michigan's choice, others are because of academic concerns, and a few look like Michigan straight-up pulling offers from committed recruits because they prefer other players. To date players in the latter category appear to be Enis, Weaver, and Swenson.

This could be anywhere from completely legit (Harbaugh tells them they may have to find another landing spot if things don't work out) to not great (this is not communicated). There's a post on the board from a gentleman claiming to be two degrees of separation from a recruit who consciously uncoupled from Michigan, and it was more or less the former:

He said the coaches meticulously laid out who his competition would be, and explained to him that they weren't done recruiting the position yet.  Harbaugh also told him that his scholarship to one of the best academic institutes was absolutely still available to him, but he would need to work his ass off to see any playing time.  Said recruit has decided that while academics are important, playing football is his true passion and wants to see the field sooner than later.  He would rather fine tune his game on the field and get better.

Despite the parting of ways the recruit seemed fine with the overall result, as he got a ton more interest after "Michigan commit" was appended to his resume.

Enis and Weaver were probably given a heads-up a couple months ago. Enis made an official to Indiana in December; Weaver scheduled an official to Temple in November. In any case they are likely to find schools that are a better fit for them and have fine college careers.

This doesn't really bother me. These days "commit" is used about as accurately as "literally" and Harbaugh has adapted to that situation. If you want to visit, visit. Michigan is going to recruit as if commits don't exist, just like everyone else does. It can be infuriating for players, coaches, and fans as order and structure break down but that's life. I've never really railed about that practice; it's shipping guys out mid-career without a degree, against their will, that rankles. I don't think Michigan will be doing that and certainly hope they never do.

However, Swenson's situation is considerably more sketch. He has not made a peep since his commitment and was tweeting about signing with Michigan as late as January 3rd. Webb says "don't be surprised if a little mudslinging happens." Swenson took the high road, but if someone pops off after a LOI is safely faxed I won't be surprised, nor will I have much to say other than "seems accurate."

If Michigan was going to pull Swenson's scholarship it should have at least warned him about the possibility during the season so he could make a backup plan. That doesn't look like the case and it appears Michigan has pissed some people off. Not a good look.

If he wants to play and does land with the Wildcats or Huskers, he's probably better off. Michigan looked at senior film and decided he would not play.

I wouldn't want to go to a school that thought I wouldn't play and wouldn't tell me that; I would expect them to tell me that. By November at the latest.

This isn't so much a rug being pulled out from under someone as an order for a rug being canceled. Michigan does have to get more organized with this stuff going forward. Setting someone adrift approximately three weeks before Signing Day—the news took a week or two to get out—isn't enough time for them to find the best landing spot.

Comments

big10football

January 20th, 2016 at 12:55 PM ^

I don't think pulling a scholarship offer after it has already been accepted is fair.  Telling a kid that he probably won't be good enough to get playing time and suggesting that he go elsewhere is perfectly fine to me, and i would even encourage it.  But if you have offered the kid a scholarship and he accepted, even if only verbal, you should honor your offer.  You shouldn't offer a kid in the first place (i know Hoke offered Swenson, just speaking generally)  if you plan on waiting it out and evaluating senior film before deciding whether to honor the offer. 

UMForLife

January 20th, 2016 at 12:54 PM ^

On one hand I want M to be above SEC or the perceived bad recruiting tactics. On the other hand, I am not seeing anyone crowning us champions because we stood by the recruits.

However, it is a kid we are talking about and I feel bad for him. I sure hope he lands in a good place soon.

It does provide an opportunity for another kid to get a great education. I don't know. I am confused if I want to be prideful about Michigan or want championship caliber team. I don't know if we can have both consistently.

True Blue Grit

January 20th, 2016 at 1:31 PM ^

For one thing in the old days, when players committed, it was rare they backed out of it.   There used to be unwritten rules about what was fair in recruiting and what isn't.  Those rules have largely been completely discarded.  As the $$'s at stake and budgets have escalated, so have the stakes in recruiting.   Whether any of us like it or not, it's increasingly become a slimy, hyper-competitive business.  And we hired one of the most hyper-competitive coaches there is.  Everyone here wanted him and now we can't be too surprised that he brings the same intensity and desire to win at recruiting.   Unless the NCAA or Big Ten steps in to establish tighter rules on the offer process (doubtful) it will likely have to be a self-policing process.  Poor treatment of recruits and players should eventually come back to haunt programs in their recruiting.  Unfortunately, I haven't seen any real signs that it has.  The LSU's, Alabamas, FSU's and Mississippi's of the world are doing well as ever.  

jmblue

January 20th, 2016 at 2:43 PM ^

Bo never coached in the era of 85 scholarships.  How he would have managed rosters in this era is uncertain.

Carr did coach in the 85-scholarship era, and he also would have the occasional sleeper recruit decommit at some point in the process.  There would be guys who said things like "I love Michigan but I haven't heard from the staff lately."   I'm quite certain his staff would "slow-play" some kids that it viewed as fallback options.  Whether they outright told them they'd be best off looking elsewhere, I'm not sure.  Recruiting is far more public now than it was even a decade ago.

Recruiting is a hugely competitive and nasty business.  I've mostly stopped following it because I don't like getting too close to indvidual kids' stories.  Coaches are expected to put together the best roster possible and that can mean breaking the hearts of some kids who dream of coming to their school.  That sucks.

I am glad at any rate that Swenson did have this conversation before it was too late to play Big Ten football elsewhere.

 

 

stephenrjking

January 20th, 2016 at 2:50 PM ^

The Carr anecdote is compelling; can you provide any example-like stories? A big change since the high Carr era has been the amount of information available about recruits, obviously. There's far more publicity in the field than there used to be.

FWIW the alternative to this sort of thing is to wind up with a glut of players on a roster that just can't cut it. Sounds familiar, as if I've seen that recently...

jmblue

January 20th, 2016 at 4:05 PM ^

I don't recall specific names, as they were guys who didn't end up here, but that kind of thing happened now and then.  

One thing that can be interesting, in a brutal kind of way, is to read the post-signing day recap of the best players in Michigan that the Detroit News runs every year.  They always ask "Why not Michigan?" or "Why not MSU?" and there are often some guys, especially on the lower end of that list, who have some raw feelings.

 

 

Reader71

January 20th, 2016 at 9:31 PM ^

This is it. I spent my junior year going to UM, OSU, MSU, and ND like every weekend. Went to their camps. Junior days. Unofficials. Daily phone calls.

But none of them offered me until they saw at least one game film from my senior year. They were all up front about it, too. I was a good junior ball player, but they wanted to see how I developed. I picked M. It was a week or two into my senior season. I was one of the first 5 or so kids to commit.

The timing has gone to hell recently. Schools offer kids before they are sure about them. Kids commit way too early. Schools accept commitments too early, or even create something as nonsensical as the non-committable offer. Hoke was done recruiting by the time camp opened. That is insane. But at least his word was his bond.

The adults have to act like adults. Offer the kid when you are sure on him. Then honor it.

Farnn

January 20th, 2016 at 12:56 PM ^

What's wierd is they don't have any new higly ranked guys looking to commit or showing serious interest.  They've been poking around at 3 stars and just got back in touch with EJ Price.  Did they decide on this when they thought they had a good shot with Delance and Davis? 

Mich OC

January 20th, 2016 at 12:57 PM ^

I wish the NCAA would make offers immediately committable, or at least implement an early signing period, that would make the offer binding on both sides.  This would put a lot of this to rest, and make coaches more accountable to who they offer and when.

That being said, just because its not against the rules, doesn't make it any less icky feeling...

mgobaran

January 20th, 2016 at 1:45 PM ^

There is something in place, but a lot of players do not know what it is. But the financial aid agreement ties the school to the student, without binding the student to that school. Lavert Hill signed one at PSU, but he can still go and commit elsewhere. If he decides he wants to go to PSU, they have to honor his commitment.

growler4

January 20th, 2016 at 12:58 PM ^

Oy vey - college football and recruiting...

I understand that recruits sometimes verbally commit and then visit elsewhere or ultimately change their minds and enroll elsewhere. I think that practice is wrong, but they're kids, so I'm willing to come down on them a little less hard than when a coaching adult making at least hundreds of thousands of dollars per year fails to stand by the offer of a committment and then has a change of plan.

College football may be big business, but it's COLLEGE football, and I'd like to think that the football progam values would reflect that of the institution as a whole.

Given that the concept of a committment in this context seemingly significantly differs from the concept of a committment in most other aspects of life, mutual flexibility on the part of both parties seems to be an appropriate course.

Yet, that calls for an open an honest discussion so that both parties know the rules of the game from the beginning. That way, each party has ample opportunity to make contingency plans with plenty of notice.

IF - and I mean IF, not being privvy to details - Harbaugh and Co. pulled a late switch on this kid without adequate advance warning, I'll be very disappointed and whatever mudslinging ensues will, IMO, be justified. IF such a situation did, indeed, take place, I would hope that the AD or University President let it be known that they find that practice to be unacceptable at Michigan.

I know there are those who want to win at all costs, but I'm not one of them, and I can say that as one who has had season tickets for decades and who has much more enjoyed the winning years than the last decade.

Blau

January 20th, 2016 at 1:34 PM ^

Not sure when Swenson's last game was but typically HS football is done by late November.

That's close to 2 months from today where any progression/regression is a moot point. Those decisions about player potential should've been made a while ago. Waiting until 2 weeks before NSD to slow-play a recruit that has been in your class for a very long time seems really unfair to that particular recruit who now has to reevaluate his options.

EDIT after today: I do believe everyone is going to be fine in this situation but the matter of how we got here hopefully changes in the future.

After hearing all we know and Brian's assessment, it kind of felt like Erik was a back up plan until we realized it just didn't fit for either of us. Breakups are never easy. Best of luck, Mr. Swenson!

Blue_In_Texas

January 20th, 2016 at 1:17 PM ^

You don't think certain tactics which fall in the grey area are more acceptable if we win B1G championships or compete for the playoffs every year? 

This is not even the same thing as oversigning. And while I am bummed about it, I will accept things like this if we become a perennial national contender. 

stephenrjking

January 20th, 2016 at 1:21 PM ^

This is false. If it were true, Brady Hoke could have held onto his job simply by acting ethically. Given that Brandon is likely the larger culprit for both of his worst missteps (obfuscation about Gibbons and the Shane Morris disaster), by this standard he still deserves to be employed as our coach.

But he's not and nobody is sad about this. Why? Like it or not, because at Michigan winning matters.

 

treyanastasio

January 20th, 2016 at 1:00 PM ^

But this whole idea of winning the right way some of this fanbase has is ridiculous. 

There is no such thing. There is winning, and there is losing. This is what it takes to win.

Or would yall prefer we bring back Good Guy Brady? 

bronxblue

January 20th, 2016 at 1:05 PM ^

Brady recruited pretty well all things considered. And again, this isn't UM pulling a scholarship early. This is basically allowing a kid to think he can commit until they find someone better, which is shady. Nobody is saying Harbaugh is a monster, but this is still a jerk thing to do if it plays out how it sounds. But whatever, apparently there is a part of this fan base that can't just accept this is shitty thing to do, even if we all sort of accept that it happens and that we are still fans despite it.

MaizeJacket

January 20th, 2016 at 1:02 PM ^

Everyone cares about this now because it's late January, but when the team touches the banner on September 3 nobody will even care who the coaches quit talking to and which prospects decided to go elsewhere.

Blue Durham

January 20th, 2016 at 1:46 PM ^

Michigan is very competitive, both academically as well as athletically (refer to the Directors' Cup standings since it was initiated to verify the overall success of the athletic department), during all of this time. But virtually all fans of the university are not willing to throw that away just to win a few football games.

And yeah, Bo Schembechler would be the very, very first (and Llyod Carr would be second, I am sure) to assert this. If you don't know this, you have no understanding of the man or of the department he helped to mold.

And nobody is "wondering" anything. Just check this thread and others here to witness that most people here are not willing to throw their ethics/morals under the bus in order to be Alabama of the North.

Yeoman

January 20th, 2016 at 8:45 PM ^

I've gotten a very different sense of the thread than you have--I think the dominant opinion is one of "who cares?," and even more so when you consider the natural bias in favor of the o.p.'s opinion on the subject (and especially so when it's the blog proprietor), who has after all set the frame for the discussion. If you check another thread on the subject--like the no-doubt-soon-to-be-deleted Freep thread-- the consensus in that direction is even more clear.

Boner Stabone

January 20th, 2016 at 1:05 PM ^

I think this is just the nature of recruiting nowdays.  It is a cut throat business and someone will end up gettting hurt in the end.  Just ask Mike Weber from last year.

BornInA2

January 20th, 2016 at 1:06 PM ^

As-is, especially in light of the additional info at MLive, this is bullshit. Oversigning, grayshirting, dropping kids who've been committed for years, and yanking the rug out from under kids who redshirted and want to play their four years is BS in my book.

Until...the whole conversation about paying them comes up. If you get paid to play you are a professional athlete and that changes things, in my opinion.

But that's not how it is now, and this isn't how I want Michigan to treat kids now.

AZBlue

January 20th, 2016 at 1:23 PM ^

I don't have a problem with the 5th year "option" or gray shirting if the staff is open about it and timely with the info. (Sam Webb noted specifically that at least one of the current commits was told they are most likely a grayshirt but the staff didn't telegraph this to the media like Hoke did with Pallante.)

Swenson is a unique case in that he committed so early and to another staff. This same thing happened with Harding although it appears that they communicated this earlier or better to him. If Swenson really did not know he was in danger of not having a spot until a week or two ago this is bad and a black eye for the staff and M - I expect better in the future.

I DO think that JH (much like RR) underestimated the ability to recruit to M and may be more judicious in accepting early/camp commits going forward.

matty blue

January 20th, 2016 at 1:07 PM ^

in my opinion, "not a good look" is a pretty good phrase to use here.  but i say that for just about every single recruiting story, from every single school.  so there's that.

SMart WolveFan

January 20th, 2016 at 1:08 PM ^

 

 

I wonder if he was one of the greyshirts they were hoping for, since he never took his OV?

And I wonder if this is still a possibility if he doesn't find the perfect fit anywhere else?

 

Still, I get the sense this is his decision: he'd rather explore options that have a better chance for him to play than chase the a dream.

 

I still have no problem with the staff being brutally honest to him about his chances even if they might not have been if they had as much room as they seem to need, as long as they wouldn't have had any problem with Swenson if he had said:

"All due respect coach, but I'm gonna make you honor that scholarship so I can get one of the best educations in the world and I don't mind how far you bury me on the depth chart because Good Luck keeping me there."

 

Of course, what coach wouldn't want to hear that?

jbwolves87

January 20th, 2016 at 1:08 PM ^

How do we know that this wasn't comunicated in November or earlier?  And the kid went back and forth about his chances of PT. And he ultimately decided that he wanted to go somewhere else and play early. We don't

JFW

January 20th, 2016 at 1:09 PM ^

This just sucks. Losses are losses and that's tough to swallow, but this makes you feel like you lost some character.

It's hard for me to add up Harbaugh doing this. That's the one thing I hang my hat on. Previous behavior doesn't suggest he's a dick; but actually a really good guy. I'm wondering:hoping there is another reason, though we may never know.

If it never happens again that would suggest there was another reason.

Only time will tell.




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stephenrjking

January 20th, 2016 at 1:10 PM ^

I don't like this.

But I think this is the trade most of us accept. We wax eloquent about the corruption of Nick Saban's Alabama program (and I think it's pretty corrupt) but if we were in the exact same position we would... be ok with it. Because Nick Saban has won more national championships for Alabama than Michigan has won since the Eisenhower administration. 

Brian's comments are, appropriately I think, focused on the way that things were communicated. Like, this is probably going to happen, but players need a better heads-up than three weeks before signing day.

And perhaps that actually happened; perhaps Swenson and Weaver et al were told in November or December that there were other guys that might be in the pipeline, guys that would take their spots if committed. And perhaps Swenson heard that and held out hope that the chips would fall in a way that left a spot for him; if I were 18 and a football recruit, I would take that bet every time for a chance to play at Michigan. And perhaps it has become clear to the staff that they will definitely have guys for all the scholarships, so they finally had to tell Swenson flat-out that there wasn't room.

Perhaps. We won't know. And regardless of how appropriate, we don't have to like it.

But this is the price we pay for a competitive football program. I think it is unlikely that there is a coach in a Power 5 conference that cared MORE or BETTER for his players as humans than Brady Hoke. Even his boss, the hated Dave Brandon, was loved by the athletes. We've already had that regime. 

And that regime brought failure, and even Hoke's well-known care for his players could not protect Shane Morris from taking the field with a concussion. 

I don't like this. But, being totally honest, I like 2014 even less. And if Harbaugh follows through on the promise we believe he has, we may wring our hands a few times on the trade-offs that we've made, but in the end we'll make the trade.