Don't Take This Michael Wilbon Rumor Seriously
Since Orson and Dr. Saturday have both pinged me about this assertion from Michael Wilbon captured by On The DL's Dan Levy…
Mike Wilbon just said on Kornheiser's radio show that 'on pretty good authority' both Charlie Weis and Rich Rodriguez are both 'done.'
6 minutes ago from TweetDeck
…let me make a futile attempt to stop the rumor storm coming down the pike. At this point if there were things afoot in the athletic department, someone would mention it to me. I don't have anything in the inbox suggesting that Rodriguez is in trouble, which is about as good as a denial when the idea in question is firing a football coach with Rodriguez's track record and a four million dollar buyout after two years.
Mike Wilbon doesn't know what he's talking about and is irresponsibly throwing stuff on the wall to see what sticks because he heard from a friend of a friend who's got a guy who says he doesn't like Rodriguez. This is almost literally the case:
He says he talked to a guy who played for Rich Rod who 'threw his wallet down' and would bet it all
So… yeah: Wilbon is asserting that Rich Rodriguez is "done" because one of his old players has a hunch. Sounds rock solid to me.
NYC radio host Mike Francessa did the same thing a couple days ago. Insert default complaint about laughable assertion that mainstream journalists are more responsible with facts here.
[UPDATE: I forgot to mention the delicious comparison between Wilbon on Weis—one of the all time slam-dunk predictions—and that guy on Bleacher Report* who asserted "inside sources" told him Weis was fired after the Navy game. In other news, Allies favored to win WWII. Wilbon == Bleacher Report.
*(nofollowed)]
This is just another MSM fool trying to be the first to say "I called it", kind of like someone calling shotgun on Friday when you're driving up for the game Saturday. Either that or he's a 21st-century Nostradamus. "Some coach at some well-known school will be fired some time. Then people will be angry, but not all of them. And a new coach will be hired, and he will hail from the Land of Football."
The difference is that no one at ESPN is going to call out Wilbon for it.
By the way, I heard that Sweatervest is going to be fired at Ohio State. Eventually. YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST.
Or maybe I meant Pete Carroll.
Not Weis. I want him to stay.
RR is on the verge of having a potent offense. You can see the freshmen are on the cusp of getting it. There are too many variables that Michigan needs to work out. UM's new football identity. They don't know who they are yet. Retool the defense: too many athletes left after Carr retired. Too many inexperienced players. 71 players on scholarship, 14 of the right players could make a huge difference if they were at the allotted 85. Michigan is in year two of the RR experiment. He needs at least 3 or 4 years. The Barwis Effect may need tweaking. Small ball may not work in the Big 10.
UM is half way there, more patience is needed. Wait! After next season if Michigan 6-6, or 5-7 and no major injuries have occurs, I'll be the first to lead the charge in that effort.
If RR is fired, whoever comes in after RR will reap the benefits of his work. Let him create his vision of this offense. This can work at Michigan too. What are we Spread Deficient? I don't think so. RR needs to work on the defense, which I might add hasn't worked too well since '06.
If you are a "I hate RR because he is not Les Miles" kind of guy. Come out and say it! Just don't create this divide. We need to support our team, now more than ever.
Victors Valiant '88
Back when Gordon Gee extended Cooper's contract just before a Michigan game I was thrilled because all across the country you could see great programs struggling because of a crazy hiring/firing cycle. Alabama and Oklahoma were my main cases in point. The upside of keeping Cooper was that he took Ohio State to two #2's in 3 years after that and only some bad bounces against your Little Brother kept OSU from an AP National Championship. The downside was the 2-12-1 (or whatever) record against Michigan. Keeping RR likely will be a similar good news/bad news thing but firing him and hiring someone other than Bo Incarnate could be much worse (and even Bo did not bring constant sunshine).
Coleman and Martin have both issued public statements supporting Rodriguez, calling for patience, etc. University presidents, and to a lesser extent athletic directors, unlike media talking heads, speak with authority. They do not issue meaningless platitudes, and when they speak it's with institutional credibility. This type of talk is a non-starter, for at least the next year.
Missing Ann Arbor
These guys really love hating on Michigan. I don't even watch shows on ESPN anymore, I just watch games now.
Can someone please explain to me why does anyone who makes an argument counter to what the majority on this site thinks get negbanged? Mgonate has a valid point in that RR's defenses at WVU were going up against crappy out of conference opponents (besides maybe Maryland... thats the only solid regularly scheduled opponent I can remember for WVU in that era) and Big East teams. It is not difficult to rank in the top 50 of defenses nationally when your competition is Temple (who, yes was in the big east during RR's tenure), Syracuse, Rutgers and Pitt (who at the time sucked balls, although they, besides Syracuse, are now respectable). We can argue about whether the fact that the other schools in the conference are playing with similar talent makes the statistic still reasonable, but it only further reinforces my point that there is legitimate debate to be had on this topic. I don't agree with the "RR's defenses suck" meme, but Jesus, there is a valid argument that finishing in the top 50 nationally in defense isn't that great of an accomplishment when your competition is at Big East level, especially post MIAMI/VA TECH leaving.
Further, does anything Brian says just pass as fact around here? Think for yourselves for a change instead of spouting off about how "Brian did a post on it." This site is a great case study in how even intelligent people (such as those that get into Michigan) drink the intellectual kool-aid just as quickly and completely as those society considers dumber and more susceptible to manipulation. You guys just require posts with "unverified voracity" in the title as opposed to "FIRE LLOYD CARR, HE SUCKS BALLS" to be worked up into a frenzy. Articulate myopia is no less myopia.
*NOTE: I want to be clear that this is in no way disparaging Brian. He does a phenomenal job writing thought provoking and meticulously researched pieces. Loved his posts on the WVU defense dispelling rumors about RR's aptitude on that side of the ball and generally agreed with him. It's his job to write analysis and opinion and he damn well should try to convince his readers of the veracity of what he writes. My problem is when dissenting viewpoints are pissed upon just because they aren't as articulate as Brian or other posters. It wouldn't hurt people to consider whether that person they so strongly wish to negbang might have a point (even if that person doesn't have a vocabulary up to your exacting standards or use perfect grammar on a blog comment board).
yes. check out my negative plenty.
that is what happens when one suggests that RR is not a god. Indeed, Brian has put together an amazing site with an incredible amount of great content. I love the site. Love it.
Posting anything contrary to the majority opinion, however, results is a slew of hate and negative points. I dared to suggest that RR needed to go. Alas, I was blasted with negatives. I might even have been one of the new folks that caused a free speech blackout (completely within Brian's right...no problem with that...other than the hypocrisy of self-identified greatness of the group). The groupthink is a bad thing though (see George Bush and Iraq). Maybe folks don't love the differing opinions, but deal with it. We all love our Wolverines, but we don't have to agree on everything. I might think that RR needs to go before Matt Millening our beloved program. Others think he deserves more time. So be it. We need not always agree.
Or you could just read chitownblue's rebuttal and stop assuming people are out to get you.
yeah...that makes sense...considering the lack of consistency by most of the haters-of-dissent. Look...Lots of you folk have interesting opinions, but stop thinking that your opinions are gospel.
The difference is that you presented an argument. MGoNate presented crap that was factually inacurrate (WVU's defense was top 20 for 4 straight years). Your argument at least tries to get at "why" - his was merely ignorant.
wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog
You have proposed a nuanced analysis of whether WVU's defensive numbers under RR were inflated by substandard Big East competition. This is what Mgonate offered:
"When any RR team had a defense? From what i remember WV was only good cause of their offense. They never made it to the promise land cause their defense sucked to high heaven."
Yep, that really invited a knowledgeable discussion about RR's ability to coach a defense (which, of course, he doesn't do, leaving it to his DC). Sorry to be so insistent upon "perfect grammar." Funny, I thought I was searching through an unintelligible mess for any sort of fact-based argument. Silly me to have such "exacting standards."
that the similarly unintelligible arguments from RR supporters and those who suckle at the teat of Brian's intellectual superiority do not get summarily negbanged for their ignorance, poor grammar, or tautological methods of argument. Just an observation.
So, as a baseline, can't any discussion begin with (rather than ignore) the product of Brian's "intellectual superiority" (aka research)? Besides which, you don't have to look far to find examples of neg-banging of suck-ups to Brian's viewpoint. It's not worth my time to figure out which happens more -- in either case, the victim can hardly complain, can they?
being the nba analyst and host of pti, wilbon is increasingly becoming more of a "source" on espn, regardless of what we think of the network. he's far more reputable than parker, rosenberg, sharp and any other local guy. probably even more recognized than herbie, at least definitly mark may. I don't think he's throwing his repuation on the line based off what some scrub said or to get ratings for espn (they don't really need any, anyways). I'm curious to see where this circus goes. is it possible someone in the administration thinks a ncaa infranction is in the cards?
lloyd was better.
As his name implies, Rich has become a lightning Rod for rumors and drama. This will continue for years to come and maybe end when or if he starts making BCS bowls.
Bad puns make Henri the ennui otter cry.
Or should I say, you "otter" not make bad puns.
Mike Wilbon is as objective about Michigan football as Mark May, Drew Sharp and Gary Danielson. He knows less about Michigan football than Henri.
Wow. Don't think I'll be watching PTI anymore. Out of the trio of Martin, Coleman, and Wilbon, somebody's full of sh*t. Guy with the Milk Dud shaped head, I'm looking in your direction. Like Public Enemy said back in the day: Don't Believe The Hype. Even if that crap was true, getting rid of RR before he has had a chance to thoroughly prove himself would be disastrous, and it would take years to recover from it. It would also send a message to any prospective coach that they would have to come in and win right away with no regards to the getting players, and possibly assistants and coordinators that fit their offensive and defensive philosophies which is what RR is in the process of doing right now.
It's a blue thing...you wouldn't understand.
The source article states only that the logs were not submitted timely. Apparently they were kept but were not forwarded to a multi-sport audit in the normal course. I don't know what, if any, penalties attach to tardiness but I doubt this will amount to much. We can still earn an A-...
I assume you mean the Umich website. Here is the link to the document:
http://www.vpcomm.umich.edu/pa/key/universityaudit.html
That F..ing newspaper will stop at nothing to make a case, whether one is there or not. Nothing like unbiased reporting from an opinion writer asshole.
Mary Sue Coleman does not strike me as the kind of person who likes to eat crow. She said he's not being fired, and that got a lot of play. I figure that's the last word until next season.
Don't normally check Freep since the debacle, but a friend texted me and said check the headline about the NCAA investigation. It said Michigan didn't keep mandatory logs showing practice time.
http://freep.com/article/20091116/SPORTS06/91116040/1319/U-M-failed-to-k...
Now on ESPN at
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4660285
The relevant quote of the article
"The authors of the audit, in their summary, said they "did not observe any issues of non-compliance with NCAA rules and regulations" regarding practice and playing seasons."
This was conveniently "ignored" by Mr. Rittenberg.
Boycott the Detroit Free Press! Do not click on any link to a freep article.
GO BLUE
Did they say that the CARA reports were created and not filed? My reading of that article was that they didn't receive any reports for a while. When they did get reports, there were no compliance problems.
I'll be the first to admit that I have a hard time posting legalese. I may have just missed it.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20091116/METRO/911160401/U-M-audit--Footb...
Try the Det News article.
The auditors found no problems in the areas that could be audited, but could not audit the CARA logs, which Michigan made available today.
So far, no problems. The CARA logs remain to be audited, though.
Boycott the Detroit Free Press! Do not click on any link to a freep article.
GO BLUE
And it still sounds like some of the cara logs are gone and can't be audited. Which still doesn't mean anything, it just looks bad. I really can't imagine this will lead to anything. It just seems like yet another distraction.
Like I said in a response to a post about Rittenberg being so great: he is a major douche.
...you can flat out deny a coaching rumor because no one "in the know" has tipped you off.
I really think that speaks to Brian's work. Great to see someone so passionate about the program gaining more and more credibility.
maize & blue, right down to my shoes.
I bet it was Rob Parker
I NEED QUESO! QUESOOOOO!!
Look at Ferentz. He needed time, but I bet there are a lot of Hawkeyes pretty happy that their school showed some patience.
Go Blue
"Informed sources" are often nothing more than reporters gossiping to other reporters. Thus my theory that these rumors of RR's impending demise originated from the Freep cabal.
I can't imagine RR getting fired, unless the poobahs want to invoke the Les Moss Principle, wherein somebody irresistible becomes available (someone like Sparky Anderson) and you whack your coach/manager early in his tenure to get to said hot item.
I think you have to give the guy at least 5 years. By that time he will have all of "his guys" on board. If there isn't a breakout season after 5, you probably have an argument. And I'm a guy 70 years old that doesn't have a lot of time left to see this turn around!
I also wonder, as much as I respect Lloyd Carr, if he didn't really let down the last 2 years at Michigan. It seems that in his next to last year there was some sort of issue that wasn't really spelled out. Reading between the lines I took it as being burned out. If so this would affect recruiting hence the lack of talent now.
The one thing I really wonder about is RR not having the team elect some permanent captains at the first of the year. Seems this would give the team some leadership that the young players need. Only my opinion of course.
That is a little bit long don't you think? Next year is going to be key, but if we aren't at least competitive with Ohio State and the rest of the Big Ten by '11 his goose is cooked as well it should be.
Shouldn't he get 5 years? There has been improvement in wins and offensive production despite a freshman quarterback and inexperienced defense. He needs to have a full roster of only his players. If after year 5 we are not in a competitive position, by all means he needs to go.
I'm so frustrated with multiple media outlets spewing crap. Hype for the reason of hype. No facts whatsoever. We all here know why we aren't good. Unfortunately, there are more casual fans out there who see W's and L's only and don't understand why.
Amaker got a free pass for quite a while without the track record Rodriguez has. Patience is not easy, but needed.
I guarantee we will win more games with Rodriguez as coach next year than with anyone else in the country. Not proveable, I know, but transition again would send us backward. Hello 3-9.
Let me preface by saying that I do not want Rich Rod fired. I'm probably more lenient than Brian, in that I would keep him even if he doesn't go 8-5 next year, so long as the team shows some real improvement.
That said, I don't think you can fairly say there has been "improvement in wins and offensive production" this year. First, the "wins" improvement can be attributed to the fact that the two extra victories were against (1) a WINLESS MAC team, and (2) Baby Seal University. It's not so simple as 5>3 means we're better this year. One could just as easily point out that we have a worse Big 10 record this year than we did last year.
As far as the offensive improvement, the depressing fact is that we scored more points per game in our first seven games of Big 10 play last year than we did this year. Yes, our overall points per game are higher this year, but that is entirely due to our performance in the first three games of the year (which included the aforesaid winless MAC team) and the Baby Seal clubbing. While you can't discount those games entirely, I submit that our performance in the latter part of the year, after teams have had an opportunity to scout us out and prepare for us, is a more accurate measure of our true progress than early-season performance.
As for the freshman quarterback, it's not like he's replacing a seasoned starter. We started a walk-on for 8 games last year, and another freshman (albeit a redshirt one) for the remaining four games. I don't think anyone would argue we've had a drop-off at QB. Yet despite returning virtually our entire offensive line, two senior RBs, and virtually all of our WRs, the offense hasn't improved by leaps and bounds over where we were at the end of the year last year.
Again, I don't want to fire Rich Rod, and I want him to have every chance to succeed. But I just don't think the "offensive improvement" is nearly as clear as others are suggesting, and, for the first time, I'm having real concerns that this experiment is not going to work out.
You get a sense that Wilbon was maybe directing that quote to Weis and just threw on RR's name because the lead was already written. This feels like an attempt to get a splashy headline after two perennial powers lost over the weekend.
and swore to me "on pretty good authority" that Wilbon was banging Cowherd's dog.
They named Gruden a prospect and a few hours later he signs an extension with ESPN.
LOLsources....
When any RR team had a defense? From what i remember WV was only good cause of their offense. They never made it to the promise land cause their defense sucked to high heaven. Everyone can say its all recruiting and Carr left us bear but we have high caliber players coming out of high school who are looking TERRIBLE. Look at Stevie Brown last year..or Mike Williams this year..these are 4 and 5 star guys consistently looking lost.
Why did you drop out of that "English as a second language" class cause you sure haven't mastered the material. I can hardly bare to read this post. Everyone can make arguments based on the actual statistics from RR's years at WVU but then you wouldn't be able to say how TERRIBLE RR is as a defensive coach. It's difficult to watch all the 4 and 5 star posters around here consistently looking lost.
I remember something about glass houses and stones...
my attempt at sarcasm did not succeed. Kindly compare to Mgonate post I was responding to . . . .
Look at Stevie Brown this year, and look at Ryan "Yards After" Mundy becoming a player good enough to get drafted upon spending one year at West Virginia after leaving Michigan.
Brian's posted plenty of times about this, and West Virginia actually had a highly underrated defense while he was there.
Remember the games they lost, they usually lost because the offense melted down (the Pitt game that cost them a BCS title shot comes to mind).
mgoaway
"To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad."
- Jack Handey
Wilbon, you're a journalist and I respect you.
But don't ever take sides against the family again.
Francesa? Please. It's not Yankees related. What the hell would he know?
I've redeemed MGoPoints for valuable and exciting merchandise!
RR should be given at least through 2011 to get this defense back in shape. The defense will continue to be very young next season, but hopefully we will see improvement within the defense through the 2010 season, unlike this season. IMO, RR will need to win at least 8 games and defeat OSU at home during the 2011 season to secure his job. Next season looks to be another .500 season due to the weak defense...but I'm hoping there will be enough improvement for a 7-5 record...an upset or two and a bowl appearance. I'm still pulling for this team to pull off what looks to be impossible, a win over OSU! I'll never give up on my team. Go Blue!!
expect the best
These have been the two worst years for the fans of the program. We are constantly being dragged through the national media with all these constant rumours. Rich Rod was hired to bring change to the program. No one can deny he has changed this program, probably forever. What we can't let happen is for this program to become irrelevant. We don't want to be SMU, Washington, UCLA, or even Notre Dame. If we believe that Rich is the wrong guy, lets move on. If we believe he is the right guy, we need to back him no matter where he leads us. I believe that we are becoming irrelevant, but we need to give him and his staff one more year to turn things around. If he doesn't, fire his ass out of here and start over in 2011.
As someone who's lived in NYC for a while and familiar with Mike Francesa I find it hilarious that he would even talk about this subject. The guy knows absolutely, positively nothing about college football beyond whats on the SI.com headlines.
BREAKING NEWS:
I have it on "pretty good authority" that Mike Wilbon is full of shit.
I also have it on "pretty good authority" that random former West Virgina player likely has about as much inside information on the Michigan program as Mike Wilbon. Which is all of none.