On Monday afternoon Brian stated on WTKA that Steve Threet left because RR told him that (paraphrasing) he wasn't going to play next year, and that Forcier was going to get all the snaps during spring practice. Since I was the one who initially posted this on MGoBlog, I figured I should also post Sam Webb's view of this issue. I asked Sam directly this morning on air about this, and he disagrees this is what happened. He said that, by contrast, Threet's decision came as a surprise to the coaching staff, that RR left a meeting when he heard of it, and spent some amount of time trying to convince Threet to stay. Webb left it as a case of his sources telling him different things than Brian's. Brian, if I've misstated or misremembered what you said on the air, my apologies and by all means set me straight.
Did RR tell ST Forcier was getting the job?
to believe sam webb's story as that's the third place i've heard it.
I just have a hard time believing that RR would be so eager to play one of two kids he hasn't spent a second of his life coaching that he'd run off a viable (in my mind) Quarterback with a year of work in the system in order to hand it over to one of those mystery candidates.
posted this morning on Scout saying much of the same things Sam was saying. I don't know if thats because they talk to each other or if they both heard the same thing from different sources.
You can say what you want about Rich Rodriguez, but he's no fool.
Only a fool would just let Threet go in this situation-- there's nothing at all to gain and plenty to lose by letting the kid walk. If he wasn't concerned about position depth, think of all the other kids on the program that would have been let go as well...
said, so I can't really comment on it. But I did hear what Sam Webb said this morning, and Sam said that RR tried to convince Threet to stay.
guys seem to agree with Brian, FWIW. Maybe they both have the same source? Who knows, but I guess we'll never know what happened.
GBMW think RR bad for NOT CONVINCING threet to STAY. Unless he DID. IN WHICH case OK. JUST epinion. no SUGARCOAT.
In all seriousness, GBMW consistently makes vague assertions cloaked with the promise of "inside information" - if they are EVER pressed on what, exactly, the information is, ie, the specific story, they always hide behind trying to "protect the subjects of the story".
every time. I hate that site.
but in this case, they are essentially saying what Brian is saying about RR not wanting Threet around.
By the way, I do like their analysis of players and their Spring Practice reviews, but don't follow them on Scout.
I'm just more offended by the syntax and grammatical holocaust that occurs every time they touch a keyboard, followed closely by their need to qualify every opinion they give and then claim to be "straight-shooters". But my largest beef with them involves their peddling of "insider sources".
I'm not trying to discredit Brian, at all, but in my mind, saying that GBMW agrees with his version of things doesn't really bolster his case (it doesn't harm it either - I just don't give them any credence).
how do you feel about GSimms?
I mean it is kind of the same thing right? Thaat dood kaan't spehll ither.
gsimms makes up for it by being informative.
but I also think you have to admit there are SOME informative pieces on GBMW. Right?
Is that GBMW called Mike Williams a safety/linebacker tweener. Dude is like 180 lbs. They have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.
But what about PROGRAM?
Are you really going to compare someone's improper grammar to one of the greatest tragedies in world history? Just because someone can't type doesn't mean you have to offend the millions of people harmed by that atrocious event. Grow up dick.
No one took the bait on that. I'm sad, but proud at the same time.
Congratulations to Chitown who has just added a new phrase to the unofficial MgoBlog glossary:
I will likely use that phrase in real life before the week is out. Thank you.
Dex's post (#21 I think).
I absolutely ripped it off of Dex, but I think I ripped it off him much earlier than that.
Threet must think he's a whole lot better than he really is, if indeed he was not run out of town.
quite the opposite. He didn't think he could beat out Forcier in this offense, so he wanted to find a better fit in a different offense.
I'm just saying I can't imagine st as a guarunteed starter ANYWHERE.
He thinks he will be, apparantly.
I'm thinking threet doesn't feel he's getting a fair shot.
that Threet's transfer came as a surprise to anyone but us.
Here goes the net-cred I never had in the first place.
1) Adrian High schools version of the spread is nothing like Michigan's. In fact, as someone who watches several of their games every season, I'd say it's more of an 'option' offense than a spread one. Threet is a pro-style quarter-back, that was painfully obvious to anyone who watched last season.
2) Threet doesn't need a scholorship to attend college. Financially, he could go anywhere he wanted.
3) Steve and his dad Jewell requested the meeting with RR after it was apparent that Threet was more than likely the #3 guy.
4) I wasn't in the meeting, so I have no idea of what was all said, but basically it went down that Threet would probably not see much playing time (i.e - he was going to be the #3 guy)
5) From what I have heard, that wasn't even the biggest concern, the biggest concern was, according to the Threet's, the lack of any sort of praise or acknowledgement from RR about last season and what Threet did on the football field. I got the impression that they felt 'slighted'.
6) I've read things on here that if this is what really happened than why arn't we hearing about it, how come Threet isn't making it public. That's because Steve and family are good people who love Michigan, and whether or not they liked what went down, they would never disgrace the place or the coach.
7) While I didn't hear Brian's interview, from what bits i've gathered reading in threads on here, it sounds like Brian is the one who hit the nail on the head.
8) How do I know any of this you're probably wondering? Maybe some of you live in a small town or have lived in a small town like Adrian, where I live, where the Threet's live. And hopefully, if you've lived in a small town - you can figure out exactly how I know what I just posted.
If I believe your story Threet's dad needs to let his kid grow up. He needs more praise in the media?? This isn't high school. If you want to be QB1 at Michigan you need to be a lot tougher.
As I stated in my earlier thread on this topic, I contend that the assumption that RR would tell any player on his team he is going to be at a so and so spot on the depth chart in January is absurd. His whole philosophy from RR to Barwis is daily no make that hourly competition. No ones job is safe and if Threet busted his ass and earned the #1 job then he would have gotten it. In a private meeting and ST asked him to be honest would RR lay out a scenario that would have him on the bench to be straight with his player to let him make the best decision?? Sure, but it didn't come out like people are saying that he isn't going to get reps or is seated 3rd on the depth chart. Here is how the convo most likely went.
ST: Coach I've been hearing a lot of rumors about the Qb's and I've been getting bashed in the media and on the internet. What do you see of my future here for the next 3 years.
RR: Well Steven we got 2 guys coming in this year that our highly rated that probably fit the system a little better than you do and I want to bring in 2 more guys next year, so you are going to have a hell of a competition on your hands so you need to keep working with coach Barwis to get your speed and strength up and keep working on your mechanics so you can hold off these young guys, we need to improve as a team and the competition is going to be fierce this spring and fall so you need to be ready.
about praise in the media or what is said on the interwebs. It was how Steve and his dad felt with what they perceived as a slight or total lack of praise from RR.
I think that Threet would have stayed and competed even with knowing that it was highly possible that he would be #3 on the depth chart. He wasn't expecting to be handed the starting job, in fact, I don't think he really ever envisioned that he would ever start at Michigan. I personally think that this is just about that meeting and what took place there and how the Threets came out of it feeling.
Threet said publicly when he transferred that he was coming back to Michigan to beat out Mallett for the starting job.
I disagree this is about the meeting. If you watched the games last year (I assume you did), I don't recall a coach ever being more frustrated with his QBs than RR at Threet and Sheridan. This is because they didn't get and couldn't run the offense. They couldn't pass the ball - they couldn't run the ball. We all love to write about how much they fought and how hard they worked. We're forgetting that outside of 4 halves of football (Penn State, one half against Minnesota, and parts of Purdue and Notre Dame), the quarterbacking was possibly some of the worst played at Michigan in decades. Other than buffer and "mentoring," there's no reason why RR would want to have Threet back on the field in the future. If he did, he wouldn't be bringing in 4 new QBs whose styles are directly inapposite to Threet's.
Unless both Tate and Robinson pan out well enough to play as freshmen and neither gets injured, we desperately needed Threet.
And again, I think Threet could become a decent to good QB in RR's system.
The word "media" was never stated or implied in his piece. You added that on your own. He's saying Threet was upset that he didn't get any positive feedback from Rodriguez.
that changes everything:
"3) Steve and his dad Jewell requested the meeting with RR after it was apparent that Threet was more than likely the #3 guy."
There's a difference between:
a. being told you're likely No. 3 because the guys I got coming just fit the offense better than you and
b. being told you will not be allowed to take snaps in the spring or compete for a job.
From what I gather, Brian is saying (b) is what happened, which I am just not buying.
1) I know nothing about Adrian's offense, but RR's system is a spread option. How does Threet's high-school team running the option make him a pro-style QB? And I think RR has shown the inclination to change up his plays based on his player's skill set. While he clearly did ask Sheridan and Threet to run the option portion of the playbook from time to time, he also clearly changed up his run/pass mix from the Pat White/Steve Slaton era.
2) Many people don't need a scholarship, but that doesn't mean they will throw one away over trifles
3) I can't really comment on this, but I find it unlikely
4) Same as (3), only even more unlikely to me.
5) Praise? Really? Something like "Congrats on helping us go 3-9, kid. And that one ND game where you looked like you were taking a step forward with a decent performance." Come on, I know the kid played hurt, which is admirable, and I think Threet could become a decent QB, but there wasn't a whole lot of praise to go around this season. Did he expect RR to get on his knees for him in particular?
6) If all this really is true, I can only hope you're right. That would be a classy move on the part of Threet and his family. On the other hand, the situation as it stands isn't doing wonders for the team's perception. Either way, I think the team might (and certainly would, if RR tried to get him to stay) benefit from Threet clearing the air and telling everyone exactly what happened.
7) I also didn't listen to Brian on the radio, but this whole theory doesn't sound right to me. No offense to Brian, but it wouldn't be the first time he was wrong (nor would it be the first time he was right, but I'm having a hard time swallowing his version)
8) Ok, so you live in Adrian. People talk, I get it, I've been in much smaller places than Adrian(20,000 people is very large in comparison). Maybe you even know the Threets. However, unless you heard it from a source close to the situation, your hearsay probably isn't much better then a lot of the other rumors that float around message boards and blogs. If you are close to (or one of!) the Threets, then the question become one of our perception of your reliability and objectivity. Unless you want to clarify, I going to assume you happened to hear about it third or fourth hand. Not impressed.
In any case, I wish Steve good luck but hope we won't really miss him.
anyone to take what I said as the gospil - we all know how internet message boards are. So and so says he knows so and so and this is what happened, blah, blah, fucking blah.
I hesitated to chime in, but in this case, Brian is correct on how things played out. It really doesn't matter to me one way or the other who believes it, I'm not here to try and convince you.
1) Running the option is not the spread offense. And Adrian used the option rarely at that. Their offense was like most high school offenses around here. Option once in a while, dives, a pass here and there - trust me, it is nothing compared to RR's playbook.
2) I'm sure Threet will take the scholorship if he gets offered it. I simply stated financially, he doesn't need it.
3) Find it how you like
4) Same as #3, I told you how it happened. Whether you want to believe it or not is up to you. I don't blame you for having doubts (see my first paragraph on how these message boards work).
I'll skip to #8
8) I did not hear it third or fourth hand, and I did not hear it from Steve. (oh, and I wasn't trying to impress you)
and clarify a few things.
Threet ran a pro-style offense in high school - you know, the shotgun once in awhile, a lot of wishbone formations, and the option every once in awhile. He was a good quaterback - but he wasn't the type of quarterback who could play in RR's system. I have yet to figure out why I still read comments about him playing the spread offense in high school - he didn't.
He went to Georgia Tech, at the time, a pro-style offense. Then the coach leaves, Threet transfers to Michigan, which at the time, was coached by Carr using the - you guessed it, Pro style offense. Then Carr retired and by time Rich got here, and Mallet left, Threet was one of three QB's who would compete for the job, and at that time it was a little late in the game to transfer again.
So Threet played for Michigan last season. It didn't work out, it's not the type of offense he plays, we all know he can't fun for shit, and in this offense, you've got to be able to run.
The way things played out was mutal, that's why I said no one was surprised about his decision to transfer except us. In that meeting, RR told the Threets how it was, he wasn't a dick to them, they have nothing bad to say about him, I think more than anything they were a little surprised with his bluntness. Threet only won 2 games last year, and even then his performance wasn't that great, even his father will acknowledge that.
They tend to protect their own. That's a good thing, don't get me wrong, but any buzz coming out of Adrian is clearly slanted and should be discounted.
I think we were both a little unclear about your first point; I don't disagree that Threet's better suited for a more traditional offense. I didn't know what kind of offensive system Adrian used, so I was confused when you were talking about them running the option. I'm fully aware of Threet's story after he left high school.
Anyway, his best play of the year was arguably (or maybe not) that option run against Wisconsin. I don't harbor any illusions that a few good runs means he's made for the spread option or that he'll ever be half the runner that Pat White was. Given more time to mature in the system, however, I think he could be a decent to good QB for RR. Now, maybe neither party agrees with me there, but I still don't believe RR tried to get rid of him.
My point about the scholarship was based on the (apparently incorrect) idea that he could not go to another DI school on athletic scholarship since he had already transferred once. I read the NCAA bylaws and I don't think that's the case.
I'm surprised he transferred for the simple fact that he's already transferred once, and that at the time, there were these odd stories going around about him being content to be a backup and not really interested in the starting job. Plus he was at his home-state school.
Well, if these stories are correct (big "if", I understand), Threet didn't really leave because he wasn't content to be a backup - he left because:
a) he didn't feel like he was even going to get a chance to start
b) he had personal issues with Rodriguez (Rodriguez never gave him positive feedback, etc...)
Unlike Boren, Threet is keeping his mouth shut - to his credit - so I imagine we won't ever get the definitive truth. It's absolutely possible that Threet just didn't like Rodriguez (or vice versa) without either "being at fault" - sometimes people just don't get along.
it seems to make no sense that RR would have Threet take all of the snaps in spring practice. All of them? Now, with that said, It isn't a big stretch to believe that RR considered Threet as the number 3 receiver Because up until, what, the third game of last season RR was unable to distinquish if Sheridan or Threet was the starter.
...Sheridan was deemed better than Threet at week 1.
Sheridan had the best QB performance of the season against Minnesota.
Too many people here criticize Sheridan without realizing that this was the guy deemed better than Threet for Rich's first game as Michigan coach. Why prolong the agony? He's making the right move to Tate.
Threet is gone and I really think that the only thing that will be missed is his ability to teach the new guys the system. Nothing against ST by any means. Last year he was the best that we had and there is no doubt that he gave 110% every game. I just think that he probably would have had to ride the bench for the next 3 years and that is all I mean by the won't be missed comment. I really think if he goes to a pro set offense school he will do well and with the right coach he may play on sundays. I am sure that is why he came back here in the first place was so that he could try. Every football player in the world dreams of playing in the NFL and I am sure that ST is thinking of nothing other than that. I can't blame the kid one ioda. Just so long as he doesn't go and join Boren I wish him all the best.
I have a hard time believing that Threet will start at QB at any major college. His delivery is straight out of an old Daryl Lamonica film. Worse yet, he compounds his flawed mechanics by not being able to hit open recievers. That doesn't work nowadays, at least not at the highest levels.
Threet needs to go home to Adrain College, who graduated their QB this year, and hope he can at least play there, where he may be the hometown hero once again.
Either way, everyone in town will lament the fact that it didn't work out for him at UM, and they will talk about how classy he is for not blaming them for "misusing" his "talent."
And he will have a great life there.
I don't think there are a lot of people in this town who thinks Threet has any talent.
I think most people here think you two are retarded.
I don't. I find Tater's constant suggestions that Threet attend Adrian College refreshing and clever. Maybe, Brodie, you don't get the joke, since you're in England. Adrian College is a small college, and it's in Threet's hometown, too, so it'd be a homecoming of sorts for him. And, see, they're in Division III, which makes it doubly hilarious, because, see, the implication here is that Threet isn't good enough to play for a major college. So if he went to Adrian and played in his hometown and for a school that doesn't have a top football program, it'd be perfect for him. Because he's not a good football player. So he should play for Adrian College. Which is in Adrian. Where he was born.
Get it now?
I started a dynasty with Michigan and made no adjustments...(no not online, I'm just not that good)..anyways...I have won 3 back to back Natioinal Titles with Threet as the QB...The bad part about it is...he is CRAWLING in the game when he tries to run. He did improve with awareness and accuracy over the seasons that I have played.
six years of eligibility for him?
sounds like RR was blunt about Threet's limitatations and long term prognosis. Specifically, that given his skill set and what he had shown so far, he was likely to be riding the pine at some point in the near future. For the negative pall that may cast, it is actually a much nicer thing for RR to do than to blow sunshine up the kid's ass just for the short term sake of the team.
I think it is important to note that the Threet's who have apparently told I hate Levy their version of events do have a bias in this. Sounds like there is another version going around that is less harsh on RR, and maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle.
But at the end of the day, if RR said that Threet was not well suited for his system and Threet really wanted praise from his coach who was unwilling to give it, it is best for both parties that he moved on.
why did Steven and his father feel the need to have a meeting with Coach Rod? They were obviously looking for answers to their questions. The questions had to deal with Steven's playing time and how his role would change with two 4* star qb's now on the team. It would seem based on Threet's transfer that Steven and his Dad didn't get the answers they were hoping to hear. As far as how and what was said are the only questions we may never know for sure.
I suspect he was told he would get the same chance to compete for playing time as the 2 other qbs. It seems evident at this stage of the game that is all RR ever promises. RR may have even told him that he sees a good chance of Denard Robinson playing as a change up option. That leaves Threet very possibly looking like the 3rd stringer. Even if Threet would have somehow won the job he always would have been hearing the boos, calls for Forcer, and people reading how he got a pink slip from some guy on MGOBLOG.
I don't understand your last sentence, consider me confused.
Look Im not here to rip on the kid...he showed some heart last year...but if this is true:
"5) From what I have heard, that wasn't even the biggest concern, the biggest concern was, according to the Threet's, the lack of any sort of praise or acknowledgement from RR about last season and what Threet did on the football field. I got the impression that they felt 'slighted'."
Well...DAMN... imagine if Threet had played for Bo Schembechler.... does he think he would get praised tossed at him for QBing a 3-9 team, and overthrowing WIDE OPEN WRS all season long (costing the team at least 3 games)....??/ Would Bo praise him for that?
Such is the state of today's athlete... a sense of 'entitlement' prevails.
Well, Threet was put in a difficult situation last year...but it WAS an opportunity to QB the #1 program of all time....
he didnt cut it...he really did not cut it.
Good luck to him.
So, you don't think that having an inexperienced offensive line that was pretty awful for most of the year didn't have an affect on Threet's play? How about WRs that struggled to run the proper routes (Odoms, Stonum) and didn't block particulary well? Laying the blame solely at the feet of Steven Threet (or Sheridan, for that matter) for last season's debacle is short-sighted and unfair.
PS. Let's not forget that Threet was a RS Freshman last year learning a new offense. It's not uncommon for a QB to show dramatic improvement after they have a year of game experience under their belt (See John Navarre).
however, he could not cut it last year...he had plenty of time given to him to throw...and he missed wide open guys all year.
There was not a problem with WRs, TEs running patterns. Threet's 100yd pick six vs. Toledo was awful, he missed a Wide open Moundrous in the Ill game which would have been a key score at that time, missed wide open guys all game long vs. Miami, MSU, NW (really bad int in final drive)... he was erratic and very inconsistant all year long...
watch the tape, it is all there....
so he has to take responsibility for this, his play on the field... and to think that he should be praised for it...well like I said, he wouldnt have gotten that from Bo, so why would he expect it from RR.
(Rick Leach said recently that for his first 2 years at Michigan... he thought his name was "Hey DumbA--" because that is what Bo called him.)
Sometimes it is time to suck it up and make it happen yourself... rather than blame others for your mishaps.
but like i said, good luck to him, he probably made the right decision to leave.
If you have been the boss of ANYONE, EVER, you understand that you can't just tear, tear, tear people down. You need to pay them complements some as well. I'm not saying RR only tore Threet down, but to act as if "He sucked, what did he want?" is dumb.
Since you're not saying RR only tore Threet down, can I ask if you think he praised him enough?
I don't think anyone's suggesting that RR should have insulted Threet. Given that most of us have no idea what was said in practice or "the meeting", we can only go off RR's public statements. So what I *am* saying is that, given Threet's (and the team's) performance this year, he got an adequate amount of praise. To expect more sounds pretty needy to me. To transfer over it (if that is indeed a significant reason he transferred) just floors me.
just realized after talking with RR what we all already knew - he just didn't fit in with this system. I don't think there are any hard feelings on either side. Threet wants to play football, and it was more than evident he wouldn't be doing that again for Michigan.
the kid has done nothing to deserve it. He has not badmouthed the program and he had plenty of good reasons to leave. He has done so and with class, so lets not say "he couldnt cut it or he sucks or anything else like that.
He showed some good flashes and some terrible play last year. He was a freshman playing in system that not only was new to him, but also to his young teammates, he had one returning oline starter, he had a freshman tailback to start the season and not to mention the fact that he is not well suited physically for the system.
Was his arm inaccurate? Yes. So was Henne at times - too many times - you think Tacopants was invented last season?
That he realizes that he is not a good fit for the system and that RR had the integrity to tell him that he was not in the long term picture, and that would show up in the short term.
RR did not recruit the kid and it is completely fair to say that both parties realized that it was not a good fit for him. Would that have happened with Les Miles? Probably not, but this transition has been painful and will be for probably the next year. Then these type of things will be rare. We just need to weather the storm and wish Threet good luck. He tried his utmost and made the best of a situation and it is time to move on.
let's not forget that the line had plenty of injuries on top of inexperience. it woulda been pretty hard for ANY qb to excel under those conditions.
he seems like a good kid, sad to see him go.
how many different offensive coordinators has this kid had in 3 years? like 6? HS, GT1, GT2, UM1, UM2, and TBA. either he's going to know a heck of a lot about offensive philosophy, or his head is spinning with trying to learn 6 different languages.
I'm guessing it's more of the latter.
sucks for him, but he's got decent athletic ability, his running was much better than advertised for his size. he should do well in 1-AA, but it's gonna be hard for him to get to the pros by that route. of course I think he shoulda stayed and tried to battle it out with the freshmen coming in.