We better have room for the better db's who want to come.
well that's just, like, your opinion, man
We better have room for the better db's who want to come.
for other CBs to commit to Michigan. RR will take at least 3 CBs for '10 class. Avery's not the only one coming to Michigan. ;-)
Avery had an outstanding camp and he earned the offer.
I'd take Mathis, Christian, Knight, and Williams over him. Hopefully we get at least 3 of those guys. What if 3 of them want to come here (very possible)? I don't think RR will take 4.
I'm starting to think...he could play safety also.
Dude, set your sights a little lower. Landing three or four 4 stars at one position in the same class is a rare feat.
Not all of those guys I listed are 4 stars. I know we had a 3-9 season, but in most years we should have a pretty equal amount of 3 and 4 stars, not lopsided like it is now.
"Most years" we weren't 3-9, you underestimate the effect. 3 and 4 four stars don't pile on top of each other in a class, except for the chance to play at perennial NC candidate. Maybe in a few years again.
I know. But we still had a top ten class this year. The in-coming recruits still stayed with us being 3-9. Eventually we'll be bringing in top 10 classes just about every year.
There is no more reason to think that the previous poster is underestimating the effect of 3-9 than there is to think that you're overestimating it. If we were raking in a killer class it would be equally easy to say that people had underestimated the effect of selling recruits on potential early playing time. What I'm saying is that your argument is, at its heart, mostly circular. And to your claim that multiple highly rated players won't commit to play the same position except for a perennial NC candidate I need only say: Notre Dame, last year.
good chance that Avery and Christian will be 4 stars in the next round of updates. Avery because he is now almost 5'11" and Cullen because he proved he can be a corner in college at 6'1". I think there is even outside talk of Cullen Christian being high enough to get consideration for a 5th star in the end, similar to the way things finished with Justin Turner last year.
RR turned down Travis Williams, a CB, who wanted to commit to Michigan. It's not like he'll accept anyone to his class.
Avery has outplayed all CBs at camp and he earned the offer. Camp is a better indicator because you face better competition than what you would see in HS game.
Mathis would be a solid CB but Avery is more of a natural corner. Not so sure if Mathis has the hips to be a successful CB. Mathis is a better slot WR than a CB IMO.
I'm pretty sure Mathis is better than this guy. What camp was he at and was he playing against good competition?
Avery was at, it was at Michigan's camp. Today. An invite-only affair with about 80 attendees. I'm pretty sure Coach Rod approved of the competition at the camp.
Mr. Avery also got a nice mention at the Pittsburgh Scout Combine, along with some other guy named Cullen Christian.
Not to hijack the thread, but reading through your link there was also a nice mention of Paskorz.
"Hampton defensive end Jordan Paskorz continues to impress the more we see him and he may be the most athletic defensive end in the state this year. Paskorz dominated with technique, power and speed in the one-on-ones. He got everyone’s attention when he hit on offensive lineman in the chest and the player flew through the air and landing on the quarterback dummy."
The competition sucked, he was running drills against me, Mcfarlin and Rick Mahorn
Well then maybe he's legit.
LOL thank you, I am now going to run up the 2 stairs of my front porch just to get a little extra work in!
Mathis is better than Avery at CB? On what basis did you see from him in person as well as gamefilm(not highlight film) that you came away with this conclusion?
I can't. But all of Mathis' rating are better.
than Avery if you have never seen both play live.
Star rankings doesn't mean much especially when there's not much difference between 4* and 3* players. They're essentially interchangeable.
4* and 3* are not interchangeable otherwise there would be no such thing as star rating. I also think he does have basis to say Mathis is better than Avery. Scout and Rivals both have Mathis ranked higher. These are people who are paid to evaluate talent, rate, and rank it. That being said, if Rod saw fit to offer this kid and he has been showing well at camps then I am all for his commitment. RR has forgotten more about football and talent than I will ever know.
there is not much difference between 41th ranked player and 150 ranked player.
Just because they rank players, it doesn't mean that you can take it as a gospel. More times than not, they are often wrong on ranking players. Mike Hart, Braylon Edwards and to name a few disprove that theory.
Most of the time, star rankings is warranted if a player goes to camp and whatnot. If there's a player who is superior as a football player, athlete but doesn't go to camp or didn't send film to them, they will not be ranked. It has a lot of flaws in rankings. Besides, ranking players are usually political. Tom Lemming is a prominent example of overinflating ND commits rankings.
that skepticism of rankings and those performing the rankings is necessary. Taking rankings as gospel would be foolish, however, I disagree that the difference between the 150th and the 41st ranked player is negligible. I also don't think that, "More times than not, they are often wrong on ranking players." Mike Hart and Braylon Edwards were the exceptions not the rule. Yes there are diamonds in the rough, and yes rankings are not perfect. For every 3 star that explodes there are plenty of 3 stars ranked in the same area that may never even see the field. Just looking at depth charts of most major programs they are littered with 4 and 5 star talent at the top and filled with 3 star depth at the bottom. This is not to say that a 3 star kid such as Hart can't outperform his 4 and 5 star counterparts, I am just making the argument that normally this is not the case.
Now I am not a star gazer by any means and could care less what player rankings are. Again if RR sees fit to offer a kid I'm assuming he has a dang good reason. I care little about what a kid is ranked and very much about how he plays football when he sees the field.
I guess what I'm saying is I agree with you that rankings are not the end-all-be-all, but I do think there is some value to them. Of course rankings at the end of the recruiting cycle are also much more dependable than they are right now.
We need Chitown to provide his data on star rankings again. Star rankings are valid. Higher ranked players are more likely to start in college and go on to the NFL. There are, of course, exceptions.
are ranked below him on Scout and Dior is only two slots ahead of Avery. He's ranked 23rd in the nation and also ahead of Lo Wood.
Just because he's not rated on rivals and scout doesn't mean he's not a good CB. Its gotta say something when Michigan is already in good standing with CC, Mathis, and Knight and would offer a kid after that. He's a straight up sleeper and if you're premium on rivals/scout you would know why...
CC,Dior,Tony Grimes and Rashard Knight. Don't sweat it...
C'mon man, who is to say that this kid isn't better than some of the other higher "ranked" kids? Scouting services suck. He was the best corner at camp. Scout/Rivals love guys like you.
Is it just me, or does Stanford seem to pop up a lot with our recruits. Do they run the same time of offense or defense as us, or is there some other reason we seem to be targetting the same kids?
Kids who are serious about going to a school with good academics often end up in this position.
If he's that good...then what's with the shabby list of offers? Other issues maybe?
He's just ok. 3 star on scout, nr on rivals, 73 on espn.
CA had one helluva camp whom the coaches felt deserve a scholly offer.
Take that, harbaugh!
So he doesn't have great size, or great speed. Never fear, he's got fluid hips.
Good point, fluid hips are a great asset...he could land on Dancing with the Stars down the road.
Everyone realizes that none of these kids have had a senior season right? They have one more year of competition. Full ratings haven't even been released yet. We know that right?
Once people commit, the scouting services are less likely to change the rankings a lot.
But that only weakens your argument. It now sounds like you want a highly-rated class regardless of their actual football talent.
Then maybe you should be a little skeptical of the rating services.
I am skeptical. Nevertheless, I'd rather have a higher rated recruiting class than a lower rated one. People outside MGoBlog will think, "Oh, wow, our class sucks, we have a bunch of 3 stars." Anyway, I think I'll just shut up now.
Why the fuck would you care what people you'll never meet in your life will say about Michigan football and the recruiting class? Are you going to cry in your bedroom when some OSU or ND fan makes fun of our recruiting class on some random message board? Get a grip.
I'm very sensitive. I've already cried for ten minutes straight. But really, I don't care. I just don't want to become the next McFarlin.
Some say... there is this thing called "chemistry" with regards to the social quality of a group. It is not quantifiable, but a good leader will live and die by it. You don't necessarily want a team that is an amalgamation of talented bodies if they don't get along like a team needs to. Unfortunately, many of the most talented bodies have unwieldy egos attached, and this can erode the success of the team over time (see T.O. and the Dallas Cowboys, or USC's perennial regular-season meltdown, or the USA Olympic Bball team in 2004... etc.)
Teamwork is a human affair, and is not restricted to the purely physiological side of humanity. Rich Rod isn't just grabbing talent, he is building a team that will bleed and sweat for the greater glory of the Maize and Blue. I trust his judgment.
"I trust my eyes to Rich Rodriguez, and you should too." -Pavel Datsyuk
why USC loses to at least one team in the Pac-10 each year. I always just assumed it was the fact that going undefeated in any conference is really difficult when you are playing teams that know you very well each year, or being in a hostile environment against another talented team, or injuries to playmakers. Now I know it is ego. Huge egos are holding USC back from an undefeated season every year. Nothing else.
What the fuck are you talking about? Sometimes the best team doesn't win. Did Florida lose to Mississippi because Tebow has too big an ego? PSU to Iowa?
and not me, because I am in total agreement with you. I just chose the sarcasm route whereas you went with blunt force criticism.
You did really well here, debunking what I said. By misunderstanding the actual point of the argument and focusing on one example, you have revealed your astounding depth of understanding. We are all better for having read your insightful commentary and I am ashamed. Thank you.
Oh no, I understand full well what you are trying to say about team chemistry and a different philosophy and work ethic in the recruits RR is going after. I get that and I appreciate it.
"Unfortunately, many of the most talented bodies have unwieldy egos attached, and this can erode the success of the team over time (see T.O. and the Dallas Cowboys, or USC's perennial regular-season meltdown, or the USA Olympic Bball team in 2004... etc.)"
This is the only thing I took exception to. You imply that unwieldy egos are what is responsible for USC's losses. I see no mention of anything else having to do with their losses. Please point it out to me if I am wrong. I was not trying to, "debunk," your idea of team chemistry, that you yourself say is not quantifiable. Sidebar: if it isn't quantifiable can it be argued either way?
I was merely stating that your reason for USC's losses is both simplistic and wrong. As Chitownblue stated sometimes the better team doesn't always win. There are any number of reasons for this. If you would like we can break down each of the losses USC has suffered the past few years to discuss what those reasons are. Just to let you know beforehand though, ego will not likely be one of them.
Nice write up on http://www.umvarsityblue.com/ which may help ease your angst
I already read it. You mgobloggers have eased my angst.
Someone should get highlights of that game on the interwebs
do we have any more commits in this game?
It looks like we only have Fitz there to represent...
HA! Your user name is chock full of win, sir. Nice work.
He just scored a second TD on a 5-7 yard run
Grading RR's June success based on Rivals & Scout's stars is like hoping Belichick follows Mel Kiper's February mock draft. I'm sure there's no chance the coaches like the kid's character, or his performance in the classroom either.
Sort of false. Star rankings have a correlation to success on the field. It's not a perfect correlation, but to some extent star rankings do predict on-field success.
This has been discussed ad nauseum -
I agree in the aggregate recruiting rankings are an indicator of team success, however, individually they are less reliable, too many exceptions to the rule.
Nice line, OCMF.
I'm in the middle on this one. The stars mean that the kids have a lot of respect from not only those who rate them but those who give the feedback to the rating services, but they definitely aren't a be-all and end-all predictor of success.
Like many fans, I would prefer to see a lot of four and five-stars in UM's class and have it be number one in the country. Since that isn't going to happen, though, I am going to trust RR's judgement and believe that he is bringing in the best kids for what he is trying to accomplish at UM.
Optimism can seem hopelessly naive sometimes, but it is a lot more fun than stressing, at least for me.
Bill Frieder was recruiting a highly rated guard named Doc Rivers, when he came across a write up of Rivers that basically said, "If Bo Derek is a 10 then Doc Rivers is a 9". Bill Freider replied, " we have got to find out who this Bo Derek is".
time I LMAO...still funny to the day.
not playing in Big 33 game? Kinda surprising.
only consists of 09 seniors
i guess thats why most of them have colleges/course set up already, kinda baffled me. ;/ Forgot Fitz was in the 09. Thanks for the heads up.
in high school named Courtney Avery. He was black. Similarly talented(in basketball). He eventually tried to shoplift at an Old Navy.
What I'm saying is: this kid is a cancer. RichRod is fucking stupid for offering this malcontent and dingleberry on the ass of society. The fact that's he's a 3 star makes me even more fucking sick. Regardless of the fact that he must be pretty fucking good if he was the best at his position at Michigan's camp. He's a 3 star. YOU GOT THAT? HE FUCKING SUCKS.
jrt336 is absolutely fucking right. We need to drop this piecashit recruit like a bad habit when players better rated by recruiting services - not the Michigan coaching staff - step up to the plate and want to commit. This kid might think he's a Michigan Man, but he's not. The only TRUE Michigan Man is the one with 4-star ratings across the board and an OSU offer in his trashcan lol.
Better still if he incinerates his OSU offer, that is what makes Gardner superior to any WR or CB he comes in contact with at any camp. There is power in the pyro!
Exactly! Jeez, I never said this guy sucks and doesn't deserve an offer. I just said that hopefully we will get the other guys we're going after and that this won't affect it.
Wow chill out. He earned an offer and seems as though he deserves it. Trust In Rod!
This kid is a high 3 star (#23 overall CB and only 4 spots away from a 4th star) ranked CB on Scout cause he went to their camp and earned that ranking. He'd be ranked higher on Rivals if he went to one of their camps. Point is, throw out the politics of recruiting and this kid is a legitimate CB prospect with very good hips and good overall athletic ability. His weakness at this point is his strength, but Barwis should help with that. Throw in the fact that the coaches raved about him on Tuesday during Michigan's camp, and I'm pretty confident that this kid has a shot at being a legit CB in the Big Ten.
Can Barwis help with height?
michigan fans need to smoke some more weed or jerk off more or get a blowjob or something and settle the fuck down. literally none of us are better at talent evaluation than the suckiest division one football coach who ever sucked.
I beg to differ as I'm great at evaluating talent. Oh, wait- you mean football players, not "talent"?
I rescind my comment. Carry on.
than other human on Earth.
the BEST post sofar this year.
I watch America's Got Talent, so I think I have some sort of edge
Welcome to the Michigan family Courtney! Always good to see kids who are of high caliber both on the field and in the classroom. Keep working hard and cant wait to see you out on the field!
unlike some people, i'm going to go ahead and like this.
and evaluating CBs in camp should be easy enough for the staff. Just have him cover some current WRs and see how he does. Apparently, he did well!
Welcome to M!
I think you mistook my sarcasm completely, you twat. You're all that is wrong with Michigan fandom.
No I did not. I was being sarcastic back. You are not a badass for calling a 17 year old on the internet a twat.
And not one person even wondered aloud if he would possibly play hoops as well. He was going to walk on at Stanford. It will be ineresting to see if he has similar plans at UM. Something to watch for.
Not being ranked by Rivals is weird considering Scout has him ranked high with room still to move up, at least as star ranking goes. It has to be that Rivals has not caught his act enough on that side of the ball to want to consider him.
I like the commit. I still think we need to get at least one or two more of the corners we're pursuing. Mathis is a big key for this recruiting class. If Avery and Mathis are the 2 corners in this class, i would happy and optimistic with that outcome especially since Warren will have 1 year, Cissoko 2 and Turner 3 years of eligibility during the class of 2010's time.
He said he will one play one sport in college.
Unaware of things like Youtube and ScoutingOhio, Rivals apparently has to wait until video is sent specifically to them before they rate a kid.
and most accurate evaluations are done on a 480x320 window that you can't fluidly rewind, pause or magnify.
3-D virtual reality highlight tapes are hard to find. The video they use to rate these kids isn't going to be much better - if at all - than what you and I can watch on Scouting Ohio or Youtube.
is pause, rewind and watch video of something other than a guy trucking a 5'6" 158 lb linebacker to the sounds of Lil Wayne. Just yesterday one of the Rivals guys was saying that about half of a player evaluation comes from what guys do on plays where they aren't scoring highlight reel touchdowns.
I always wonder if the music in the video helps the coach form an opinion on the player.
I think Christian, Avery, and Knight are the greatest possibilities of going blue right now. Obviously Avery has committed, and the inevitable decision will be made that Cullen Christian is coming to Michigan.
I really don't think it's likely that Mathis will commit. To be honest I rather have his teammate D-East (Daniel Easterly) than him. Easterly is a diamond in the rough. He loves to hit and has acceptional speed. Needs to add some bulk and he could be a ruthless "DEATHBACKER".
I guess Avery decided he would rather fuck.shit.up at Michigan than at Stanford.
Lifelong Blue fan in OSU country. I am a coach at a neighboring school/rival to Courtney's Lexington High School. I have seen him play both football and basketball since his frosh year. Here's some general info:
1) Extremely athletic. Maybe too small to be a big time basketball recruit though. Plays big time AAU hoops.
2) Great kid. Faces the wrath of opposing fans and never shows any emotion. Classy.
3) Will transition well to full time DB status. Most schools go away from him b/c of his skills.
4) Size? Built like brick crapper house and maybe 5'10" in shoes. He and I are eye to and I'm 5'10" and shrinking after 40.
He seems to be the type of athlete RR has been targeting.
Couple of questions:
When was the last time you saw him? Could he have grown since then?
What exactly does it mean to be built like a "brick crapper house"? Is this good or bad?
Seems to me that he is a very athletic and fluid player that needs to bulk up.
Brick crapper house is a PC term for Brick S**thouse. It means he's very strong.
Wow, when I don't go on here over the weekends, I miss a lot. My thoughts:
This kid sounds good. M attracts big time kids to their camps, from both class of 2010 and 2011. Great athletes who are going to be big time college players. If you can go in and dominate that group like Avery did, I'm f-ing thrilled.
As for the rest of the class, if we get 1 or 2 more of the CC, Mathis of Knight types, I'm OK with it. BooBoo is young. Last year we got JT and Witty (who I think will be solid). If we take one more good prospect this year, we will have 5 solid options who are junior or below, with DW still here for his senior year. Taking another one would be great, but even one more would be sufficient, IMO.
We don't know where Turner will end up. I'd almost prefer that he ends up at safety just because it's been a long time since we had a game-changer at safety and he might be that guy...
But we have very few "star-level" guys at cornerback. Warren could be a star. Cissoko, IMO, isn't. Guys like Witty and Floyd are lower-rated guys we've taken fliers on. Avery probably isn't a star, either.
Anyway, we only had 3 scholarship corners on the spring roster (Warren, Cissoko, Floyd) and there's only one certain corner (Witty) coming in this fall. Turner is a wild card. Beyond that...there's Courtney Avery. That doesn't exactly get me fired up. We need at least three corners in this class.
P.S. Other than Warren and potentially Turner, I think Witty might end up being the next best corner by the end of his Michigan career. I think he's going to be a player.
It sounds like most of our disagreement is about who will and will not be good. I'm OK with that. Plus I think Turner stays at corner.
I think the bigger issue is that you're stupid and I'm not.
Also, it seems that another option for the "where Turner will end up" debate is "not at Michigan".
This is an option I would prefer not to consider.
Consider your post deleted from my mind.
Have there been any updates in the last week reagrding Turner's eligibility?
Chill out Magnus.
I'm coming to visit you on Thursday.
Very cool, I'll be here. What are you doing here?
I'm visiting a friend who moved out there a few years ago; he's a musician (as is everyone out there). He and the band he's in have a gig on Friday night. Then I'm going to try to get him to go to the Dodgers game on Saturday or Sunday.
Then I'm helping a friend drive cross-country from LA to Detroit so we're hopping in the car on Monday and taking Route 66.
if we finished up the class with:
Rashad Knight or Tony Grimes
Latwan Anderson or Kurtis Drummond
Cullen we need. Could play CB or S.
Seems like Knight could play CB or S as well.
Grimes I do not think we will get but would obviously love.
Latwan Anderson would be such an amazing get but he seems to like WVA right now and would probably like OSU if they offered. We are at least in it.
Drummond just seems like an athlete. Would rather have LA but would be cool with Drummond.
I don't know much about Bobby Swigert but I should add his name in there as well at S.
Swigert would be a huge project.
I always wonder if the music in the video helps the coach form an opinion on the player.
It helps some coaches form EPINION of PLAYER
Wouldn't it be easier to just click 'reply' rather than highlight and copy, scroll to the bottom of the page, then paste and italicize?
Why, oh why would Michigan not be able to land three or four 4* CBs and/or safeties?
Why, oh why has our fan base lowered their expectations so much?
Good coaches who are good recruiters at good schools get PLAYAS. There are no excuses for Michigan to be lacking in extra talented players--expecially on defense with that paper-thin two deep and the chance to play RIGHT NOW.
I really LOVE all the Scout/Rivals hate that is fueling the current fire of the "Hey, if'n Rich Rod wawnts 'em, they's good enuff fer me!" crowd. Scout and Rivals are CRAWLING with paying members. New faces and posters pop up every day. Their recruiting guys are all over the public airwaves. The guys they think highly of have eleventy billion offers. The guys they don't think highly of---end up in Ann Arbor these days. HEY! Did I just say that out loud? Just kidding (not really).
C'mon people. If UM had six five-star recruits and nine four-star recruits right now, the boners would be impossible to stop. What I see is a bunch of rationalizing and justification going on.
I've had it. I'm going to write a diary on this. I only wish I knew how. Or a blog, or whatever.