Camp Chatter Hot Takes
Previously: offense, defense & special teams.
Many people are saying things about Michigan's fall camp. Some are coaches, some are insiders, some are men wearing shoes as hats. Some of the things are true, some are maybe a bit misleading, some verge on balderdash. Let's evaluate things that people are saying for truthiness.
The quarterback battle is still up in the air
[Eric Upchurch]
Thing: Nobody has ventured a strong opinion on Michigan's starter. You occasionally get a weak assertion that someone feels like a leader that's immediately followed with caveats. Tellingly, those assertions are split close to down the middle between the two main contenders.
Thing react: The coaches almost certainly have a good idea who it's going to be, but I believe that the race is tight enough that it might get overturned late and that there's genuine uncertainty amongst insiders. I'd strongly prefer an answer by now. I mean, it'll be fine since Harbaugh, but it's more likely that Michigan has one good QB than two.
Chris Evans!
Thing: Can't throw a rock on a message board without hitting an insider swearing up and down that Chris Evans is the truth. This has bled through to honest to God press conferences as well.
Thing react: It's tough to find snaps for Evans in an offense that's going to run a metric ton of tight ends onto the field along with Grant Perry and Jabrill Peppers. One thing Evans has going for him is Peppers's tendency to be the best at everything all the time: they'll want to keep his snaps down until they really need him. Evans is another spread H-back type. He'll slot into the Peppers role against the pushovers.
Still feeling like Evans hype is real but a year too early.
Ben Bredeson!
Thing: Ben Bredeson has been promoted into a bonafide 50/50 competition for the left tackle spot. Also impossible to throw rock on message board without hitting man enthused about Bredeson. He was the BTN's primary takeaway from their visit to practice, which says something about something.
Thing react: If you made me guess this instant I'd say he's the starting LT. I'm not entirely enthused about this either, but Bredeson is closer to the instant-start five star zone than Mason Cole was. Cole was the #127 recruit on the composite. Bredeson was #39. Bredeson's also 20 pounds heavier than Cole was as a freshman. He was the only OL at the loaded UA game who could annoy Rashan Gary, so maybe he is ready to take on mortals.
Cole managed to survive as a freshman. Bredeson can probably do better. The ceiling is probably something like Erik Magnuson's completely average 2015.
The freshman receivers are good
[Bryan Fuller]
Thing: Michigan has already lost two of their five WR recruits, but initial reports on the three guys still on campus have been universally positive. All three are reputed to be explosive and dedicated.
Thing react: [sits and points at their recruiting profiles smugly]
None of these guys are going to play much this year, but if one or two emerges even a little bit that will ease everyone's mind about the 2017 receiving corps. I'm not worried. They can find three guys out of Ways, Harris, Perry, and the freshmen.
This defensive line is just… I mean…
Thing: All the usual suspects have come in for praise; the guys who have not been mentioned are guys who are taken for granted as really good players like Ryan Glasgow and Chris Wormley. Rashan Gary is mostly described with a blank look, a shake of the head, and a laugh because he is everything he's supposed to be. Chase Winovich and even Matt Godin are getting talked up as contributors.
Thing react: Yes to all of it. Godin suffered late last year because he played next to the third string NT and teams could double him with impunity; before that there was a period where he was keeping guys like Wormley and Henry on the bench to an extent. He's a good player and will see snaps. Charlton should blow up with increased playing time and his still-excellent upside.
Nobody says anything about the linebackers
Thing: Aside from the occasional direct response when a coach gets asked about them at a press conference, there is total radio silence about the inside linebackers. Brown keeps talking about redshirt junior walk-on Mike Wroblewski.
Thing react: I wouldn't take that as a sign either way. Linebacker play is difficult to get a read on. The last four years of Joe Bolden spring hype that petered out in to just okay play have made me suspicious of anything people say in this department.
One glance at the depth chart is enough to see that Wroblewski is going to play some. After the starters there is very little aside from freshmen. Devin Bush will play; Elysee Mbem-Bosse and Devin Gil are both very raw. Linebacker has more depth concerns than any position on the roster other than maybe safety.
David Long!
Thing: David Long is very fast and takes notes and is Jehu Chesson, cornerback edition.
Thing react: If Long remains healthy he is a lock. He's going to play this year and start in 2017 and that's going to be very little dropoff from Jourdan Lewis. Maybe not immediately, but by the time he's a junior definitely.
Backup safeties can play
Thing: Praise all available deities. Angry Michigan Safety Hating God seems to be focusing on receivers who might get moved to safety these days—in the last year he's hewed down Brian Cole, Brad Hawkins, and Ahmir Mitchell—and spared the actual DBs. As long as we're keeping Chris Evans on offense that trend can continue.
Tyree Kinnel and Khaleke Hudson are both getting plugged as definite contributors this year and solid replacements down the line. Neither is much of a surprise—Kinnel had a strong spring and Hudson is our favorite non-Gary recruit in this class—but not having either guy derailed is important for 2016 and critical for beyond. Josh Metellus has even come in for the occasional mention; hitting on him would be very nice.
Thing react: I expected to hear these things, but actually hearing them is a step on the road to having a functioning secondary this year.
Most of these things are about 2017 more than 2016
Thing: The camp chatter glosses over big swathes of the team because you don't need to be told about them.
Thing react: Gonna be a good year.
August 26th, 2016 at 1:29 AM ^
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August 25th, 2016 at 3:00 PM ^
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August 25th, 2016 at 3:10 PM ^
I'd be okay with a Griese type if we could count on our defense to hold the other team to under 200 yards and 10 points on a consistent basis. But I don't think that is a realistic expectation in today's college football, even with the talent that we have coming back on defense. It seems like no matter how good our defense is in any given year, you can always rely on them to put up at least one irredeemable, stinking turd, and then the offense has to bail us out.
August 25th, 2016 at 3:43 PM ^
Griese was a lot better than people give him credit for....go back and watch some of the things he did in '97 - he was almost always in the right spot or making the right read and had total control of the Offense he was running. The fact he was surrounded by huge talent and running a plain vanilla LC offense shouldn't count against him.
August 25th, 2016 at 4:55 PM ^
you go with "game manager" if you have the better team, and in most games this year, UM will. Thus, go with the lower variance guy. Might cost you in the biggest game (OSU) but in the rest it will seem like a great decision.
August 25th, 2016 at 2:25 PM ^
All THINGS are interesting . . . and the reactions sound good. Looking forward to finally learning the truth about all those THINGS . Go Blue! . . . And now for some music about THINGS.
August 25th, 2016 at 2:26 PM ^
I mean, it'll be fine since Harbaugh, but it's more likely that Michigan has one good QB than two.Could also mean we don't have one. Yikes.
gonnna be a good yearGood won't be good enough. Has to be great.
August 25th, 2016 at 3:16 PM ^
Good won't be good enough. Has to be great.
This should be our slogan for 2016. The future is now. I want to sweep our rivals this year. I am really tired of losing to those motherfuckers. And I want at least one of those wins to be a total asskicking.
August 25th, 2016 at 6:47 PM ^
Screw that, I want them both to be ass kickings. If we're good ebough to kick one rival's ass, we're good enough to kick both.
August 25th, 2016 at 2:33 PM ^
Refreshing to see a number of true Freshman that will play this year based on their talent and not based on lack of depth (Long, Bush, Evans, Gary, Asiasi, Long, Crawford, McDoom, Bredeson) and probably a couple of others. This speaks volumes about the level of recruiting under Harbaugh and bodes very well for the future of the program. Anything to take a few reps away from guys like Peppers or Lewis will help for longevity and keeping guys fresh this year.
August 25th, 2016 at 2:35 PM ^
I think Speight wins because ultimately it is about trust, right? I think Speight may not win you a lot of games by himself but he won't lose them for you either. I think that O'Korn is more of a gunslinger and will take chances. I can see Harbaugh being frustrated trying to make that a controlled phenomenon.
By sheer talent this should be no contest. The fact that it is a contest portends that O'Korn is continuing to do something that is not getting fixed quickly enough.
I'm not as worried about Bredenson - I think he is winning the job. I don't think Newsome is losing it. Competition usually forges excellence. So it is good to see in both of these cases that is true at the very least.
THE SEASON NEEDS TO START LIKE NOW!!!!
August 25th, 2016 at 3:01 PM ^
Not good enough to win games on his own, but won't make the mistakes to lose them for you -- is that good enough? I think that's probably good enough for a 10-3 season. For a B1G championship season though? I don't know. We've got elite WRs and TEs, decent RBs, and a decent OL. That means that with a game manager QB, you're scoring in the low to mid-20s against a really good defense. Sometimes, that might not be enough. We have given up 42 points to OSU three years in a row now. I think that we're going to need our QB to win a couple of games for us where the other team is beating us at the line of scrimmage or a game like Indiana where we just can't stop them. Or maybe just a game where our guys fumble a few times or we spot them 7 points on special teams.
August 25th, 2016 at 3:13 PM ^
August 26th, 2016 at 1:26 AM ^
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August 25th, 2016 at 5:00 PM ^
reminds coach Harbaugh of himself and what he put Bo through at times
August 26th, 2016 at 8:04 AM ^
August 25th, 2016 at 3:01 PM ^
/cool story bro
August 26th, 2016 at 8:05 AM ^
August 25th, 2016 at 3:16 PM ^
When Jedd was asked what goes into his decision about who starts, he said,
And then how they lead the team, how they break the huddle, how they act in meeting rooms, do they have a moxie about them, and then what’s the end result.
http://mgoblog.com/content/media-day-interviews-jedd-fisch
When I compare Speight and O'Korn in that photo, Speight appears to have more moxie. Check the body language, Speight has his hand on O'Korn's shoulder. Speight is acting like the alpha male. Meanwhile, O'Korn's face reminds me of this classic SNL bit:
August 25th, 2016 at 3:15 PM ^
Enjoyed reading all the posts on this thread. Camp Chatter Hot Takes is an awesome informative read. Thanks for brining us closer to the M Football sub Brian. One of the best dive downs this summer.
August 25th, 2016 at 3:57 PM ^
Frankly, it shouldn't even be subject matter. Meaning, if you bring in a transfer to be your QB, and he's not named the QB early on, the writing is on the wall. Speights has this position, and it's only healthy for Harbaugh and company to keep the competition going.
If Speights isn't the QB, it would be due to injury or instagram pics of bowl smoking.
August 25th, 2016 at 4:19 PM ^
August 25th, 2016 at 4:25 PM ^
Is Speightssssss gonna be a thing this year?
August 25th, 2016 at 5:37 PM ^
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August 25th, 2016 at 11:14 PM ^
August 26th, 2016 at 5:56 AM ^
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August 26th, 2016 at 9:20 AM ^
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August 25th, 2016 at 5:25 PM ^
August 25th, 2016 at 5:57 PM ^
This is an interesting take in light of the fact that Harbaugh said the QB position is significantly farther along at this point than it was at the same point last year. Both potential QB's have had longer in the system than Rudock did and likely have more physical talent.
So according to you Rudock accounted for 3-4 wins by himself? (nevermind the defense, special teams, improved o-line play, improved individual skill players, better coaching, game planning and overall scheme). If Rudock connected on a couple more deep balls last year we probably beat Utah and MSU.
Yet you are saying this year the qb position (whether Speight or OKorn) with way less of a learning curve, the same excellent weapons, a likely improved overall offense in it's second year of the scheme, and an even better defense will hold us back? Okay makes sense.
August 25th, 2016 at 6:19 PM ^
August 26th, 2016 at 2:28 PM ^
August 26th, 2016 at 12:19 AM ^
The bar where the QBs were last year isn't very high. It's good to know that Harbaugh thinks they are further along, but the QB play for the first half of the season last year was a major concern.
The big question will be how far can the QBs progress this year. Rudock went from being a major concern to one of the best QBs in the big ten by the end of the year.
August 25th, 2016 at 6:50 PM ^
for we will dismiss them, cast back to whence they came.
August 25th, 2016 at 10:48 PM ^
Is a big ole boy
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August 26th, 2016 at 10:13 AM ^
"Good year indeed." Stay healthy boys.
August 26th, 2016 at 12:18 PM ^
I get that Speight came off the bench last year and helped us win the Minnesota game, but it was ugly. I don't have faith that we're so good everywhere else that it will make up for mediocre QB play.
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