Breaking In, Breaking Out
This was going to be a bit in UV but kept going. More Dorsey!
The Free Press got its FOIA muscles going again and found out that Dorsey confessed to a couple 2007 robberies as part of a group of five kids. He was placed in a diversionary program. The crime he was acquitted from was a 3 AM incident where he was in a car with four other kids and one of them hopped out to rob some guy; the kids all blamed each other and the cases were dismissed. So… 20% chance he actually did it if you don't believe the clean years after that mean anything. Considerably less if you do. 100% chance Dorsey needed to get far away from some folk.
You'll note that this makes one of Drew Sharp's statements from Signing Day accurate and leaves the rest in the realm of the reprehensible. Dorsey clearly had a rough past and hung with the proverbial wrong crowd, but amongst the many reasons this is the wrong crowd is it seems very bad at not getting arrested. His two years on the right side of the law and his very decision to GTFO are indications he's made a break.
I'm torn about the fairness of the article. On the one hand, it seems to think this is "acknowledgement" that Dorsey got breaks other kids wouldn't…
“All cases are individuals. We are dealing with kids,” [assistant state attorney Maria Schneider] said. “The vast majority of kids stop offending. I hope this is one of them. But if he’s not, we’ll find out soon enough.”
…when he was placed in a diversionary program while three others went to trial. Those three others were 17 and 18 and were already on probation. Dorsey was 16 and not. A second 16-year-old was also involved but what happened to him is unknown, which means he was—drumroll—almost certainly placed in a juvenile diversion program. (Except his records got sealed like they should.) The guy who Dorsey robbed was told that the kid might have a future so can we go easy, and Schneider didn't dispute it, so there's that. Still, the article spends a lot of time arguing—yes, arguing—that Dorsey's potential as a football player isn't a decent reason to keep him out of the criminal justice system.
On the other, it runs a quote from Dorsey front and center:
“My goal right now is to show everybody I’m not that person who I was a couple years back then, hanging with the wrong crowd and stuff like that, showing that I’m more focused,” Dorsey said Thursday in an exclusive interview with the Free Press. “I’m focused. I’m ready to move on with my life to bigger and better things.”
And Ann Arbor, he says, is the place to do it.
“I feel like that is a great place for me, where I can start all over and make something out of nothing, make nothing into something,” he said.
That's the point. Maybe Dorsey won't make it, but he's been clean for two years and deserves a shot. If he caught a break because he had a shot at going to college, that was a good bet by Broward County. He did, and now he's going to Michigan. It's up to Rodriguez and Dorsey to make it pay off.
The worst thing about all this pressure is that a Dorsey MIP is now a big deal in a way that Kevin Grady getting frighteningly drunk and falling asleep in his car is not. If Dorsey doesn't keep his nose clean at Michigan, the rest of the team can have a spotless record and the storyline will be Dorsey this and Dorsey that. That's a hell of a burden, one that few players with "checkered legal pasts" have to deal with. When Roderick Jenrette came to Michigan State, he was carrying two burglary arrests with him—about which more later—and no one knew. His troubles were explained away by Mark Dantonio and people either respected his privacy as a juvenile offender or were lazy or were just stunned by how magnificent Dantonio's jaw was, and he was left alone.
For whatever reason, Demar Dorsey wasn't afforded that luxury. I have my theories as to why.
Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe that will help him walk the line.
The larger context. So this article is basically fine, if too insistent on making a case against the local state's attorney for not treating a 16-year-old kid harshly. But compare this seven-page story that flags down everyone on all sides with the Free Press's pathetically credulous story on Michigan State's Posse Roundup & Engineer/Woman Beatdown— or "fight" or "altercation" or "pillow hugs" if you're the Free Press.
Remember this?
Dell Sr. said his son did not participate in violence at Rather Hall. He, however, did say his son initially lied to coach Mark Dantonio about his presence there.
"I said, 'Man, why didn't you just tell the truth and say you were there and didn't participate in any of the physical stuff?' " Dell Sr. said. "He said: 'I don't know. I should have just told the truth.' "
That was it as far as quoted sources went: parents of Michigan State players.
Cunningham and Dell each pleaded guilty to one count of misdemeanor assault and battery in East Lansing district court Wednesday.
How about the pathetically credulous article titled "Legal strategy at issue in Michigan State altercation" that asserted the criminal charges filed against nine Spartans were probably just crap to get "the truth"—about which see "bzzt" link above and the additional charges levied to Oren Wilson and Myles White? Or the pathetically credulous acceptance of Mark Dantonio's bald-faced lie about Roderick Jenrette, who had been arrested for robbery mere days before he arrived on Michigan State's campus?
It wasn't until Jenrette was booted for the team for hugging a unicorn at Rather Hall that anyone bothered to look into his double-robbery past, and this was a 2008 recruit who was arrested August 1st of… 2008! Dantonio took the bizarre step of sending Jenrette home to "work on family issues" and no one bothered to see if maybe there was something up with this kid. These are the same crimes, same state, hell even the same position, except one kid was two years past his trouble and was treated to a front page column questioning him and the other was two days past it and ignored. I'm sure I don't have to draw a picture.
I got a zinger in my inbox that's a good summary:
When did Demar Dorsey become Kwame Kilpatrick in the eyes of the Detroit Free Press?
Zing!
Anyway, just throw this on the ever-growing pile of evidence that the Free Press has a double standard. Soon we'll be able to put a ski lift on it.
Demar Dorsey looks really funny on that video. Hope he will solve his current problems with ball receiving, if not, he's got to find a good course work help to do it further.
Not giving an opinion, but just clarifying a couple inaccuracies.
Roderick Jenrette was a 2006 recruit brought in by JLS. Not in 2008 by Dantonio.
In 2008, the statement wasn't family issues, but "has been asked to take an indefinite leave of absence from the team to address a personal matter."
http://detnews.com/article/20091211/SPORTS0202/912110420/MSU-s-Roderick-...
Jenrette was arrested both in 2005 and 2008 for burglaries. Dantonio said Jenrette had to attend to "personal problems" (a statement at least as misleading as RR's "wrong place, wrong time"). So one arrest was prior to coming to MSU. The second was while on scholarship.
The question remains why neither arrest for the same crime in the same state garnered a fraction of the attention.
On the one hand, it's annoying
On the other hand, it shows they care about us. In their own, pitiful way, they reveal their obsession with us by all this annoying nonsense.
Imagine: The jock QB stud who is the guy everyone wants to be friends with. Unfortunately, that includes the undesirable and socially incompetent types who cling and need and annoy and such. It is a drag on our studly hero's image.
And yet, despite their lack of social ability, even the untouchables recognize that the second-string QB (MSU) is not worth their valuable time and energy.
And that is, basically, why the Freep sends investigators to Florida to get some facts about things one of our recruits did years ago, but only bothers to phone some parents for a bunch of MSU players beating down hapless bystanders. I mean, really, why should anyone care?
That's right, Dude. 100% certain.
RR told them to get the facts, they did and wrote the truth. This post is shit.
What is Rod suppose to do? Turn his press conference into an outing of his newest commit?
Where were these same media members when Dantonio lied about his players 2nd burglary?
Maybe he should come prepared. He wasn't ready to answer those questions. When he came here I was pumped because of the possibilities. Now I don't really know. I still felt excited a week ago but after that press conference my faith in him is shaken.
Basically he's a pussy when it comes to dealing with the media. I'm not saying he should cuss them out or things of that magnitude but for God's sake grow a fucking pair. I am apathetic towards him now. If things keep going this way then I will be on the anti-RR side. I feel brain washed from this place looking back now because no coach would have gotten this much leeway from the fans back in the day.
Don't come back.
"I hope if dogs ever take over the world, and they choose a king, they don't just go by size, because I bet there are some Chihuahuas with some good ideas."
- Jack Handey
Big swing and a miss.
"Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what IS that thing?!" -Jack Handey
I'm SO sick of this double standard, I can't wait until the Michigan State game so we can clear some things up for some people.
Every little thing that Rod does the media throws a tizzy over.
Dantonio flat out lied to cover up Jenrette's 2nd burglary with the excuse of family issues and the need to respect private family matters. Therefore, no media investigation. What is worse, when it comes to light that Dantonio flat out lied and let a kid back on the team after a 2nd burglary attempt the media really didn't do anything.
I am not saying don't give Jenrette a 3rd chance (or 2nd just while at MSU). What I am saying is Rod gets jumped on for every little thing, like the GPA -- while his team actually has improved its GPA and people at UofM have said that Rod focuses more on classes and GPA than Carr....while Dantonio lies about his kids crime and no media outrage.
we are more important than MSU
Also, we are better at life and, more often than not, football
That's right, Dude. 100% certain.
some with possession of MJ with intent to sell on school grounds and they are now doctors and lawyers. One was were expelled, they all went through diversion programs and now in some cases practice medicine on (holy shit) our families. They got the 2nd (and maybe 3rd) chances and took advantage of them. Of course, they happened to be white also and they live in non-dangerous neighborhoods and have both parents at home with jobs etc. Did they get favorable treatment or have certain advantages?
Just say'n.
My spouse grew up in Bloomfield Hills and he and his brothers got in a fair share of trouble--every single incident of which resulted in them being allowed to get back into their nice car with the rest of their well-to-do white teen pals and go on their merry way.
The worst thing that happened to them is that once, the police officer made them break their bong on the curb before letting them go. O the humanity.
I cannot imagine him getting that same break if he had been in Detroit and driving a crap car. Not to mention being non-white.
An excellent point, which I'm surprised doesn't come up more often.
I could tell plenty of similar stories. The fact is, kids from wealthy families get away with the same criminal behavior that poor kids go to jail for.
That's right, Dude. 100% certain.
Are juvenile records even supposed to be public? I have a fuzzy understanding of how juvenile justice and privacy work, but I didn't think these types of things were public record in the first place.
very uneducated guess is that for $75 and an application Dorsey could have these expunged. http://bit.ly/aRj6Ws there could be much more to this and perhaps I'm oversimplifying this or, Demar didn't get sound advice from a lawyer...
of course the Freep has effectively saved him the trouble as you cannot much expunge a published article...
I have been away all day and see every other thread is Dorsey-related (glad I was away). I commented last night about the diversion program, as I have written about it here in similar juvenile cases.
Anyway, I was wondering how other Michigan media outlets are treating this story? Is the Freep going solo on this one, or are others starting to follow? Thanks.
And he piled upon the whale's white hump, the sum of all the rage and hate felt by his whole race. If his chest had been a cannon, he would have shot his heart upon it.
The Detroit News does not have a single story on the "issue".
The Michigan Daily covers the story by, in essence, reporting the Freep story in short form.
A well written and balanced piece, Brian. Keep up the good work!
Go Blue!
the people working at the "free press mountain (of lies) ski resort" will hate my ski helmet.
some are scared of being misfits; i'm afraid of fitting in
My family has subscribed to the Freep forever. In fact, I learned to read using the FP comics. I don't remember them being anti UofM years ago. So when did this all turn? All that I can come up with is that 2 or 3 years ago they realized that they were a dying paper in a dying media in a dying city and figured they needed to (damn the ethics) go for broke. Still, that doesn't explain why they don't do the same with MSU.
Get busy living or get busy dying.
Maybe the Freep doesn't give this treatment to MSU because many Spartans have trouble with the whole "reading" concept. Doesn't do them much good to drum up fervor from State fans when all the letters look like hieroglyphics to Sparty. Did you notice how the MSU folk got upset over the potential logo change? That story probably just worked because it had a picture.
A good friend of mine is an attorney in Philadelphia who represents juveniles. She wrote this letter to Sharp yesterday, which I think provides a knowledgeable and interesting perspective on the juvenile justice system.
"I find it hard to believe that you are the same person, with the same level of understanding and thoughtfulness about decision-making that you were at age 16."
Didn't she read his article?
That's right, Dude. 100% certain.
While I generally find 97.1 to be as biased as the Freep, they made an excellent point on their show earlier this afternoon (~12:15 or so)...When was this giant research piece written???
Clearly it wasn't prepared between the RR presser and Drew's opinion piece. This piece was researched while UofM was still recruiting Dorsey without a commitment. They had multiple reporters in multiple states digging into the background of the actions of a 15 YEAR OLD KID! 15. He wasn't even on the team, but it was important enough to become the largest story the Freep had covered in some time.
Contrast that with the Jenrette case so aptly noted by Brian. Same crime (although Dorsey was years younger and wasn't facing 15 years like Jenrette), same state. Any research into that action? Not a drop. Any questions for Dantonio? None. If they had dug into that, frankly, I would have no complaint. Fair is fair. Given their disinterest in a MORE CURRENT story from MSU, the bias can be no more evident.
This is not a matter of one, two or three reporters for the Free Press...an effort like this comes from the top. This was a planned attack on the program and the kid. It's wrong.
Does anybody know any history on Gene Myers? He is the Sports editor at the Freep, and has been at the paper for about 17 years. I'm curious as to his ties to the MIchigan program, college degree, and any other potential reasons that he would hate on the current iteration of Michigan football.
That, and I love a good conspiracy theory.
I expect a follow-up column from Rochelle Riley any day now.
is that after his "break," this kid has a track record of changing for the better and of staying out of trouble for the last two years.
This is not something that just happened. In life of a teen ager who can't stay out of trouble, two years is an eternity.
That Demar hasn't been a recidivist in that time, along with the statements from his coach of how he changed over that time, lead me to believe that he will stay out of trouble.
While not a justification for Sharp's and the Free Press' witch hunt which, make no mistake is aimed at UM, and Rodriguez and not Dorsey himself, through unintended consequences, it may serve as extra motivation for Demar Dorsey to stay out of trouble in Ann Arbor.
We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now. - Bruce Coslet
For me, Sharp's article, and those that have followed are not troubling because of a double standard between UM and MSU, or because of an agenda against RR, or the fact that the Free Press has decided the best way to stay afloat is to occupy the niche of antagonizing UM fans, it is their disregard for Dorsey himself. Other posters have talked about what a special day signing day should have been for him, so I won’t get into that, but as a caller on WTKA this morning said, the Free Press has forever tinted this 18-year-olds future just so that they could have a story. As he put it, these stories have removed any chance that Dorsey could have taken advantage of programs often in place that allow juveniles to have their records expunged after a certain period of time. This is no longer an option for him. Even if he were allowed to have his arrests, acquittal, and dropped charged removed from him record, a simple google search, not even a background check, would turn up the Free Press’s story. So, were they correct in reporting this? Sure. Was it considerate to this young man or his family, not even close. They turned a non-story into something that will now forever follow him, just so they could up their page views for a day or two. That is what troubles me.
Anyway, can we all move on?
Lets congratulate Demar for his achievements so far and what must be the accomplishment of a dream to play major college football at great school. He will have the chance to truly make a life for himself. But beyond that, can we not talk about this again. Please.
"Soon we'll be able to put a ski lift on it."
Hell, if they put a ski lift on "Mt." Brighton we could easily put a ski lift on this. Probably charge $45 a lift ticket too.
Even if Dorsey commits another criminal act and gets kicked out of M, it doesn't mean he did not deserve the opportunity. Some people learn from their mistakes some don't. Time will tell with Dorsey.
Young Dorsey went thru the process, Florida offered him as did Michigan. If Dorsey is admitted let us hope he makes the most of his fantastic opportunity. Blue in Yarmouth always alludes to his checkered past and how grateful he is for chances to redeem himself.
RR believes in the kid, I'm cool with that, let us hope Young
Dorsey believes in himself and can make the tough transition from HS to college. I will be rooting for the kid.
That's a great point I think. The outcome doesn't necessarily dictate whether the decision was right or not. There are way too many variables that will go on in the next 3-5 years that will determine whether or not Dorsey works out on and off the field. The question is whether or not, given the circumstances of the past and the character evaluation of the present, Rodriguez thinks he has a good chance of having success. That is Rodriguez's job, and I trust him to do it. If he determines that there's a 75% chance that everything will work out, he should take the risk on him. There's still a one in four chance that it doesn't, but to help the team, help Rodriguez's career, and to give a young man a shot at a future, it's a risk worth taking. And if Mark Dantonio honestly thought the same thing when Winston was allowed back on the team, that was his decision to make and the fact that Winston screwed it up doesn't necessarily mean it was the wrong decision.
Jenrettes "youthful indescretions" were about 300 times closer and two years further into the development of a full adult orbitalfrontal cortex than those of Dorsey. Winston's occurred after he was already on the team, and then, after being detained in prison from team activities for breaking someone's head and putting them in the hospital, he was allowed to walk directly from his jail cell onto the practice field. I think there is about zero comparison here.
I think you completely missed the point of my comment. We've disagreed in the past about if you can compare Dantonio's handling of the State situation to Rodriguez's handling of the Dorsey situation. I think it's comparable, you think it isn't. I don't think we're getting anywhere there.
My point was that you can't judge these decisions about how to handle a player's indescretions by what they end up doing after the decision is made. Rodriguez (or Dantonio for that matter) don't get a crystal ball to see what is ultimately going to happen. They have to use their experience and judgement to make the best decision they can, given the information they have. You can fault their criteria and their process, but I don't think you can say that Dantonio was definitely wrong because Winston had another transgression or he would have been definitely right if he hadn't. It's just not that simple.
As for the OFC stuff, I would like to be pointed to a reference that shows the stages of development between the 15th and 20th year of life, independent of outside life and outcome data. I looked myself and couldn't find it. You seem to be educated in the area, so I'd like to gain some knowledge.
your first post, and I need to back off some. I had the context of that paper in the back of my mind when I read your comment, and in fact, your mention of Dantonio doesn't at all try to exculpate that paper for its shoddy and bigoted reporting. On the other hand, putting it in the context of an originating post where that paper is a major topic could lead to wrong interpretations. It isn't too clear at first that you aren't trying to justify the unequal treatment of these cases at that paper.
Your attempt elsewhere to bring in the GPA thing as an example of RR "untruth" still strikes me as opportunistic and unfair. It sounds to me, forgive me for speculating, like you read that cursed paper too much and too credulously. That said, I agree to disagree and I apologize for any offense caused.
I think we have a better understanding of my first point. To be honest, the gpa thing probably wasn't totally fair on my part. I just think we're kidding ourselves if we think Rodriguez was totally forthcoming on Wednesday. He probably made this worse by the way he handled the question. Pardon the tone, but he's the head of a multi-million dollar organization and he needs to get his shit together and handle these things better. For the record, I was thrilled when they hired him, am still optimistic it will work out, and given my limited knowledge on the Dorsey thing, I think he made the right decision. I just get sick of the tone of persecution and close minded homerism (not you specifically)in our fan base. Rodriguez needs to get it together and get things done.
Is there any sign that RR meant to characterize anything other than Dorsey's jury aquittal with those remarks?
How much about the juvenile record do we expect him, or Bedford, to know prior to that paper's FOIA search? I'm sure that we can agree that the amount of attention is unusual, although I don't know how true this still is if you allow for UM exceptionalism. I'll generalize and say that I vaguely suspect the unprovable notion that SOME news sources' raison d'être is to dig up the next Watergate exposé in all that they do, whether it be sports or reporting the weather, and that until RR pulls wins he will get a double-dose of this kind of scrutiny. I think this kind of pressure drives the win-at-all-costs paradigm.
I still think that RR is an exception to the win-at-all-costs norm, no matter how this turns out, and I think the GPA story bears this out.
I'm wanting to say that RR was forthcoming enough, but I haven't listened to the presser and so I would be out of my depth.
to imply that I am an expert.
I was referencing what I took to be layman's common knowledge; my contact with it is as it relates to the military recruitment of children. The most commonly-cited resource in this connection actually comes from the auto-insurance industry, as here:
I think you are missing the point of Brian's post. The ire at a certain paper you see at this site is a product of a confluence of two things:
1.) The "risks" Dantonio has been taking are incomparable to Dorsey. This is BEFORE you take their subsequent implosion into account.
2.) What makes the comparison between Dorsey and Dantonio's annointed ones interesting in the first place is the entirely disproportionate, and in the former case, prejudicial, treatment of them, and RR, by the paper we all love to hate.
The anger here is not particularly about Dantanio. It is about the double standard at that paper.
If you will notice, I don't even mention the subsequent outcome of Winston's and Jenrette's second chance in my post. I was saying those two were incomparable to Dorsey to start with.
If you are arguing that we shouldn't use a bad outcome, which I don't at all expect, in Dorsey's case as a club to beat RR with, I am all with you. But for some reason, this isn't what leaped out at me when I read your post.
97.1 is also pretty one sided. Right now Valenti is calling Rich Rod a liar. You would think Michigan is being coached by Osama Bin Laden.
Rodgriguez did characterize the incidents as being in the wrong place at the wrong time. That implies it was beyond his control and he got unlucky. After reading the article from last night / this morning, that clearly wasn't true. Add on to that the whole team GPA issue, and it's hard to argue that Rodriguez hasn't ever told untruths in his press conferences. It may be a stretch to say that he willfully and maliciously lied, but there's some history of untruths.
if Rodriguez is taken at face value of 'wrong place, wrong time' I can see how this can be interpreted as misleading
I'm on dial-up and the search command is taking over 15 minutes already, so I'll let someone else dig up the original threads on how the paper we all love to hate spun a phenomenal effort by RR and staff to set historical new marks in scolastic achievement by the football team into another story about RR's lack of Michigan-man-ness. I don't think RR is the real villain of that piece, but like I said, let someone with higher-speed internet than I dig up the threads for reference.
What interests me is how you seize on that example in order to create the two data points you need in order to insinuate that RR is a liar.
With all due respect, I don't get the idea that it would be a stretch for you at all. Is it unfair of me to ask, Sparty troll or RR-hating troll?
Dual degree holder, 20+ year season ticket holder with an opinion that clearly doesn't match yours.
RR's integrity and concern for the kids are an embellishment to the program, and that when wins start coming in, his hire will be considered a no-brainer.
Not so sure about RAWK, but you can't win them all.
So if I am riding in a car with a few other guys and we stop to let one of them out and he then commits a crime, am I (1) taking part in a premeditated criminal act, or (2)in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Get busy living or get busy dying.
There were two incidents, not just the one you reference where he was acquitted. He admitted to being involved in the other, which included burglary. I will reference this to the comment above yours too. If you truly believe that Rodriguez was only referring to the incident in which Dorsey was acquitted and not both, then you are right, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think that's a stretch.
RR said Dorsey was in the wrong place at the wrong time. This was in no way inaccurate. Dorsey was in the wrong place at the wrong time. However, RR never said it wasnt dorsey's own decision to be there.
The fact is that Dorsey comes from a world that is far different than any of us grew up in. He comes from very poor area where crime rates are much higher. While this does not excuse his behavior it does point to a change of scenery being more beneficial for him.
Those who stay will be champions!
Yes, and head coaches lie when naming starting QBs in press conferences or discussing game strategy. Not that the two are the same but remember RR was basically backed into a corner when Sharp decided to press the issue on signing day. And the GPA thing was pretty laughable b/c he was told something but not really given the whole story (at least that's how I remember it). It's not surprising that he painted the story as "he's been in trouble in the past but we believe he is not a bad kid" given the context.
i think the responses / fisking of the freep / etc. make more of this than is actually there. i'm not saying we stick our head in the sand, by any means, but the more we talk about it, the more it gets talked about.
let's let it rest on our part unless something happens.