Not only is Justin Boren a total jack ass for his complete lack of class in the way he left U.M. But check out this article http://myespn.go.com/blogs/bigten?tag=Columbus%20041609, in which the Boren Loser is described as "nasty" as well as this by one of his fellow Suckeyes: "Oh my God, he's a crazy dude," Gibson said. "It's good to have him over there because we're lining up and he's screaming and cussing and [stuff]" Sounds like famiy values to me...
Define family values.
Ohio State - cash benefits, 'roids (Reynolds... Boren...), clarett-like lifestyle, DUIs, Unsportsmanlike penalties in scrimmages (TP), and so on.
Michigan - not giving a scholarship to a bad player because his brother goes here.
Ah that makes sense.
No Family Values = "I miss my mommy and Barwis made me piss my pants." Can't wait till Mike Martin & Big Will put the hurt on this traitor.
I'm going to nominate this post for the 'worst quote taken out of context award' of the month. I really hope you win, you did a great job cherry picking this article!
Boren, while you might not like the guy, plays on the Oline. Having a mean streak while the play is ongoing is mostly normal.
I want you to explain how that quote was taken out of context.
Well for starters what does a "nasty" vocal O-lineman have to do with family values? I take it you've never even been around a high school line.
If you will recall, the Boren Loser complained about how under Rich Rod family values had eroded and referenced the coaches yelling and cussing now as opposed to how Carr and his coaches did things. In the article that I quoted, one of Boren's Suckeye teammates refer to him screaming and cussing. I was just pointing out what most UM fans already knew, that he was full of shit and his leaving had nothing to do with a lack of "family values" i.e. cussing & screaming and everything to do with his inability to meet the demands of the new S & C program, as implied by a number of the other UM players. I find it funny that the kid who couldn't cut it at UM is the strongest lineman on the OSU team. Can't wait till November... paybacks are a bitch!
The general tone of the post was 'ZOMG, Boren sucks, he has no class' (at least that is how I read the post). However, the linked article could be boiled down to 'new offensive line at ohio state looks good in the spring and we are going to highlight a conversational player as a cheap trick by the media to get more page views'.
If one of our O-line was called nasty and crazy, it would be interrupted as a good thing. But the OP made no mention of the fact that nasty and crazy was used to describe Boren's play and not character.
Really?? Interrupted? I think the word you were looking for was interpreted.
Here's what the post was saying.
A) Boren claimed family values had eroded because coaches were swearing and yelling at players.
B) Boren transfer to archrival.
C) Boren swears and yells at other players at new school.
Conclusion: Boren is a hypocritical piece of shit.
I think the post was made to show the hypocrisy of Boren complaining about the coaches swearing at them during practices. Let's be honest, he didn't leave Michigan due to "eroding family values". He didn't like being yelled at, and now he's the one doing the "screaming and cussing and [stuff]"
Exactly! Couldn't have said it better myself...
You will find that certain people on this board will defend Boren to the death...You can say bad things about guys that play for "our" team and they won't say a word. However, if you make the mistake about talking trash about a traitor (the worst kind of traitor, at that) and it's over with.
Nobody is "defending Boren to the death."
Nobody is denying that Boren is a traitor.
There was nothing said to imply that "it's over with."
The other posters above didn't comprehend the original post.
You, however, are just making outrageous overgeneralizations.
When Zac MacVoy come back to play at Yost, I had no moral issues with calling him out on leaving/transferring but I didn't attack his character. I try not to make any character judgments of people I don't know. I try really really hard not to make character judgments of teenagers.
When you attack others' character, you open yourself up to such criticism yourself. If you leave with class, you should expect be treated with class. Since Boren was tossing grenades over the wall as he walked out, he deserves zero respect in return. A classy person would either not make the comments in the first place, or apologize once cooler heads prevailed. I would respect an apology if it were offered. "Classy" doesn't seem to apply in this case, though.
That is a very good point. I guess I'm in the camp of 'just let the guy walk away and not call him a total jack ass'.
Difference of opinion I guess. Sorry for starting the brew-ha-ha tonight.
i have never heard/seen anyone defend boren ever. and i spend a little too much around this board
When Boren left, he and his father made comments about a lack of family values. The cussing by the coaches was considered a detraction. The fact that Boren is said to be "screaming and cussing" sounds a bit hypocritical, if that was a reason he left Michigan.
Then again, the "lack of family values" (according to my theory) was more of a dig at Rich Rodriguez for refusing to offer Zach Boren a scholarship. Lloyd Carr had promised to take on Zach. When Rodriguez arrived, he - rightfully, in my opinion - didn't think Zach was worthy of a scholarship and therefore didn't offer him one. The Borens got pissed and Justin transferred to OSU where he could play with his brother.
Justin Boren being "nasty" is irrelevant. The OP considered the cussing to be the bigger issue.
is what was played up by Boren and the media as what was meant by "lack of family values." Insightful observers knew that was a load of shit and recognized that the statement referred to Coach Rod's lack of nepotism. The quote in this article proves those more insightful types to have been correct and that the Borens were just making attacks at this bogus, fabricated identity of Rich Rodriguez-Who-Cusses-More-Than-Other-Coaches-And-Is-A-Bad-Man-For-It
damned if I will have my sons play two different school"
Yeah the family values thing. Was it the cussing and yelling by the staff or was it the fact that Coach RR did'nt honor as legacy scholly for a kid that did not deserve one.
Now his own team says he cursing and plays nasty. smacks of hypocracy to me.
Has there ever been a direct quote from Boren where he said he left because of swearing? My understanding is that the belief is he left because of the staff's strict coaching style during practices. Michigan fans just cherry-picked the swearing thing and ran it into the ground.
How did Boren transfer to tOSU, I thought a player couldn't transfer in conference or something. Thought i read it that about Marve, and how he couldn't go to some schools.
You can, you just can't accept a scholarship for transferring in conference. At least, I think that's the rule
color me surprised...
this whole thread is a little pointless. i mean i thought it was already understood that boren was king douchebag
To be fair, most of our threads are pointless in that they have no impact whatsoever on the day-to-day football operations at Michigan.
And yet here we all are. Tremendous.
meant he was upset that:
a) he could not leave on the weekends any more so he could go home and breastfeed; and
b) RR was not willing to give his brother a schollie..
His talent level is pretty good, at least for run-blocking, even though he is a whiny, no-class "Bor(e)n Blue, Traitor by Choice."
it doesnt make sense that the only reason boren decided to transfer was because RR wouldnt offer his brother a scholarship, because im pretty certain being that zach boren was a 3 star RR would have at least offered him a walk on spot, which would have made mike boren have to pay for tuition for one full student and have a son on scholarship, which im pretty sure he still has to do considering ohio state is not allowed to give justin a scholarship.
Boren will dominate whoever lines up against him in 2009, so get comfortable with it. Then get ready for Big Will to spank and punish Angry Baby severely in 2010.
I always interpreted the family values quote as about the cussing and screaming second and about the snowplowing first. RR wouldn't give the Boren Loser (I like this name) special treatment and let him miss a few practices, and BL didn't like it and threw a hissy fit.
is very creative, but my favorite is BORON.
Boren is a really good olineman
Boren is a douchebag.
Boren never said he left because of the cussing
Boren is a douchebag
Boren didn't leave because of Barwis he's a monster
Boren is a monster and a douchebag
Boren left because he was given special treatment by Lloyd because he was a monster, Boren didn't want to come here in the 1st place and was pressured by his parents and younger brother, RR stripped that away and said my way or the highway. That didn't sit well, I think when he told the Boren's your younger son blows I'm not wasting a schollie that was then end of it.
guys that play for Michigan. ;-)
However, I wait for November and hope that our D-Line crushes this guy!
Said it best. To add my own slant, THE Human Twinkie is definitely a big, AND I MEAN BIG, hypocrite. He reminds me of adults, years ago, who used to tell a much younger me to "quit your Goddam swearing."
And, for anyone who feels that Boren is sustaining too much undue criticism: it seems like a couple of people here feel that it is OK to rail on fellow UM fans in the forum but not OK to make the same kind of comments about an OSU football player. In other words, fellow posters deserve to be flamed while OSU football players deserve to be deified.
It makes me wonder if they are really UM fans at all.
In related "news," I hear that the new conditioning program at OSU is to either run around the horseshoe ten times or run around Boren once.
When you make idiotic and unsupportable complaints about, say, Justin Boren, you make all complaints -- even legit ones -- suspicious. As in, "Oh, those Michigan fans are a bunch of idiots who will say anything. Sore losers. Cosnider the source."
I used to think M fans were better than that, but this board has gone a long way lately to make me think, nope, on the whole they suck just as much as any other fanbase.
Let's not be Those Guys.
He was not. As evidenced by Chad Henne's injuries in the 2007 campaign. UM suffered a lot of sacks on Boren's watch. That entire OL was horrible in 2007, but Boren did not play well in the run blocking nor pass blocking.
I think it will be really interesting to see whether he improves under Jim Bollman's tutelage. If Boren does improve, then it only will serve to prove how inept UM's OL coaching and conditioning has been the last few years under Carr (Andy Moeller? Mike Gittleson?).
I understand the need to lead a bandwagon of hate against the guy. Part of that is justified in my view, because no one in the Boren family can keep their mouth shut and just play.
But I suspect Boren will earn a starting role for OSU this fall and that he will perform better than in the past. Maybe that is what UM fans are afraid to observe this year in Boren.
Truth be told, Ohio St. can use all the help it can get on the offensive front because even with all of those high-caliber recruits, their OL did not play particularly well last fall either.
The 2009 OSU-UM game in Ann Arbor is going to be a lot of fun though, because I think we'll see a UM team in bowl contention with the setting and backstories of Terrell Pryor, Justin Boren, Rodriguez and maybe some ill-advised Tate Forcier pre-game guarantees sprinkled in. Who knows?
He was All Big Ten honorable mention in '07. He wasn't nearly as bad as you seem to think.
He was also only a true sophomore. That post didn't make sense.
living in ohio and rooting blue gives me a unique perspective: watching pickerington central's back-end of the "boren loser" turd-sandwhich trilogy,Lil'-est Boren, I can attest to the M DEN's suspicion that a deal was indeed struck by DICK, I mean Jim (I get the incompetent brother-coaches confused)Tressel and father-fatso-traitor (FFT), concocting a three-for-two scholarship deal: his two sub-standard sons for his overweight semi-precious stone (who cannot receive a scholarship within conference). Not wanting to separate his 3 "precious", FFT went Gollum on RichRod and went "family values" on Blue packing his pouty pooper to C-town. Undoubtedly, the strategy will backfire on ol' DICK, I mean Jim (see above) since Bigguns is too fat and slow for a wanna be spread, which Pryor is best suited for, and Lil' Loser misses blocks all the time (see the 4th and 2 against Navy which almost lost the game for the Bucks). I dont know where they'll put Lil'-est Loser coming in next year; he isn't even a serviceable division I prospect. Kudos to RR for not giving in to FFT's blackmail; He will indeed be avenged in November!!
But I support the essential facts of this post. I have seen little Zach play two downs for the Buckeyes. They have him as a FB right now. Both plays that I have seen were short-yardage handoffs. Both plays went over an inside block by Zach. Both plays were completely blown up; in the USC game in particular, little Zach bounced off a USC linebacker like a tennis ball bouncing off a garbage truck.
My comment, below, was written just as 'reluctant buckeye' was writing this one.
Really, the Michigan Family (how's that, Borens?) needs to understand the facts in the Justin Boren-transfer story.
the the MGoBlog readership doesn't have a better handle on the Boren story.
The essentials are as follows:
1. Yes, this story turned into a real mess, and a seriously unfair attack on Rodriguez, the moment that the Boren family released their home-made press release saying that the Michigan football program had lost its "family values" under RR.
2. The 'Lost its family values' claim against Michigan is a bad joke, coming from Mike Boren. (It was Mike, while playing as linebacker for Bo in the late 70's-early 80's, who was called "Boron", semi-lovingly, semi-mockingly, by Bo Schembechler.) Mike Boren used to scream and swear at his sons during halftimes of their football games such that Justin once said (and was quoted in the Detroit Free Press saying) "I thought they might have to call the cops" [on his psycho-dad Mike].
3. A lot of stories popped up immediately, as people speculated about just what the heck "family values" meant. People knew that RR ran a tough and intense program, so people just jumped to the conclusion that RR was to hard and foul-mouthed for the Borens (a bad joke, as I stated), or that Justin couldn't take the punishing RR/Barwis conditioning. Both theories, based as they are on pure speculation, are untrue.
4. The reason that the Borens used that phrase, "family values," and the true reason that Justin was suddenly and summarily pulled out of Michigan at an otherwise unremarkable time in the off-season is this: When 2009 freshman class shcolarship offer letters were sent out by the RR staff, Justin Boren's litle brother Zach didn't get one. Mike Boren had expected a kind of legacy scholarship for his middling 2-star youngest son, and when it didn't come, he blew up. He dragged Justin out of school in a rage.
5. The story on little brother Zach Boren is this, and it parallels the Justin story. Zach was at Pickerington North H.S. (just east of Columbus). North was where Justin had gone. But Zach wasn't developing as his dad had hoped. Zach was getting recruited by a couple of MAC schools, only. OSU didn't recruit him. Nobody else seriously recruited him. For some good reasons. First, everybody thought he was a lock to go to Michigan. Zach wanted to go there, and Mike presumed he'd be going there. But Zach had done badly at some Michigan camps. And he was a middling FB/LB 'tweener.
6. Before Zach's senior year in H.S., Mike pulled Zach out of Pickerington North, and enrolled him in Pickerington Central. To get him into a football program program Mike thought was better. Word is that Mike got an apartment across town for Zach, to get him into Central. (Sound like any other Borens you know?)
7. THE DAY AFTER 2009 offer letters came out and Zach didn't get one from Michigan, Justin Boren quit Michigan. The two quotes coming from the Boren family were revealing -- Michigan had "lost its family values" and Mike Boren said, "I will not have my two sons playing for two different universities." Huh, Mike? Well, he got his wish when OSU gave the Borens a package deal. As soon as Justin left Michigan, OSU gave Zach a look. Zach was clearly the lowest-rated recruit in the OSU class. He was a rider, essentially, on a deal to bring in Justin.
8. Let's be clear about Justin Boren. He's a helluva football player. He was good at Michigan. He's playing remarkably well for OSU, right now, on a dinged leg. Justin is not bad, or fat, or lazy, or unskilled, or any of those things. He does have an apparently weird kind of relationship with his dad, such that Justin never spent any time in Ann Arbor when he didn't have to for football. Every non-football weekend, he'd drive back to Columbus (Pickerington) and work in his dad's landscaping & snow plowing business.
9. We could have used Justin last year; we needed him, and he was lost to Michigan's badly-damaged 2008 cause. OSU got a good player, and maybe a good kid, in Justin Boren. From what I've seen, Justin is OSU's best OL player right now.
10. But here's the real point. For more than a year, Rich Rodriguez got hammered in the press for the Boren story. Everybody launched their own theory about "family values" and what RR had presumably done to damage it at Michigan. Instead of firing back at the Borens, RR just kept his mouth shut, focused on the program and the kids that he had, and let his reputation take the hit that it did. There are really just two take-aways from the Boren story, and none of them have much to do with Justin, or even Zach.
The first takeaway is that Mike Boren is a psycho-dad.
The other takeaway is that Rich Rodriguez is a principled gentleman.