The Big Ten Should Take Its Baseball And Go Home Comment Count

Brian

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Barry Larkin isn't walking through that door.

The AP published a fascinating article yesterday about Big Ten baseball's next move after years of thwarted attempts to level the playing field that has me wondering about what the point of a baseball national championship is, anyway.

The Big Ten is essentially a mid-major in baseball for structural reasons: the season starts in February, the Big Ten plays virtually its entire nonconference season on the road, and recruits gravitate towards places that don't force them to spend a month of time when they're hypothetically in school hanging out in Florida.

The obvious solution in this era of year-round schooling for virtually all athletes is to push the season back, but the teams who like the current North-screwing setup outnumber those screwed. They like getting a ton of home games by default and not having to compete against major athletic departments in the North. Surprise!

So the Big Ten is rumbling about radical departures—literally:

Minnesota's John Anderson, the winningest baseball coach in Big Ten history, is pushing for his conference to break away from the NCAA's traditional February-to-June schedule and play when the weather in the north is more favorable. In short, the Big Ten's boys of summer would be on the field in summer.

Such a move would cost the Big Ten schools any shot at playing in the NCAA tournament. That doesn't bother Anderson.

"There were four SEC teams in the College World Series last year. We're never going to catch those people," he said. "The system works for them, and they're not going to want to change it. People are going to criticize this idea, but we need to get people talking about it."

No Big Ten team has made the CWS since Michigan in 1984, so it's not like they'd be giving up much. Players headed to the Big Ten are not doing so because they're banking on NCAA tourney appearances anyway. Meanwhile, the Big Ten Network is hurting for content in the summer. It might not hurt recruiting much if Big Ten teams could promise a ton of televised games and a format specifically designed to appeal to pro teams—wood bats, maybe, the conference can afford it.

Short of that the Big Ten is working on a weird proposal to allow up to 14 non-conference games in the fall that would count for the spring/winter season as well. Purdue coach Doug Schreiber came up with that idea when he wasn't busy emailing Corn Nation about Big Ten schedule strength misconceptions. That email spells out how deeply screwed the Big Ten is by the current system:

So, according to your rationale, Big Ten teams need to play a murderous, non-conference schedule prior to their conference season when 95% of these games will be on the road. It may help with improving the RPI's a little, but probably not the overall winning percentages, which will cancel out the tough schedules being played.

The choice here is between a lot more home games and something to do in the summer and the dream of reaching the CWS after a drought approaching 30 years. I'm with Anderson: withdraw from the current system, set yourselves up as pro-friendly as possible, use the Big Ten Network as a club, try to get other Northern schools to join you, and raise your profile regionally by being interesting when nothing else is going on (August). It's not like things can get worse.

Let's get even more radical, in fact. BYU's soccer team is not a part of the NCAA. They play in the PDL, "the top-level U23 men’s league in North America," alongside a vast menagerie of local club teams and MLS youth sides. [More on the transition here. It's really interesting.] If the Big Ten baseball is going to forgo the NCAA tournament in favor of a summer-based schedule they might as well go whole-hog with it and leave the NCAA entirely.

They could then use their huge pots of money to their advantage by offering 18, 20, 22 scholarships instead of the 11.7 (IIRC) teams are currently limited to. Leaving the NCAA might also allow them to tailor their schedule to something more MLB-friendly, or even join a relevant minor league so they could compete for a championship bigger than the Big Ten. Players could sign with pro teams and still maintain their eligibility. It could serve as a giant middle finger to the Southern teams. Hearing them complain about the lack of a level playing field would be delicious.

Even if that's judged too radical, it's time to stop working with the current NCAA system.

Comments

wesq

March 1st, 2012 at 12:56 PM ^

You don't need to have played in college to understand that there isn't much talent in the Midwest/East Coast but there is a ton of baseball fans up here.  Nobody wants to go to a baseball game up here in March and April.  Today UM and OSU are on their way to play each other a 1,000 miles away in Florida.  The whole thing is silly, IF the B1G was allowed to have a schedule that they could make some money, they could jusity paying for better coaches.  Yes even if the NCAA moved the schedule it the B1G isn't going to be a power conference but at least we as fans could enjoy baseball in reasonable weather and the conference could earn some money on it.  If they don't want to at least give us that, then yeah, lets take our ball and go home.

The FannMan

March 1st, 2012 at 1:38 PM ^

Good post.

I started out likling Brian's idea.  However, it seems that all it would do is to create second tier league while setting a precedent for blowing up other NCAA sports.  Don't like the BCS? - start your own league.  Think you could make more money by having a super-elite baseketball league without any recrutiing rules - leave the NCAA to start something else.   There are more than a few unintended consequences.  (Do you think the NCAA would let this happen without taking it out on other sports? )  The negatives would far outwiegh having the Big Ten effectively withdraw from NCAA baseball so that we could "win" a fictional baseball title in a league we created.

The bottom line is that we are just not going to be a hotbed of college baseball talent.  Its like golf.  With the exception of a Minnestoa (WTF?) win in 2002, the Big Ten doesn't really show-up in the NCAA golf picture either.  Other than the golfing Golphers of '02, you have to go back to the 1950s to find a Big Ten team that was in the top two.  (It was Michigan with a runner-up finisih in 1952.  Yeah, baby!!!!)  It shouldn't be a surprise that the best golfing talent lives and goes to school where they can play year round without freezing to death.  It just is the way it is.  I don't think we should set precedent for blowing up the NCAA to change the weather.

UMFan1780

March 1st, 2012 at 12:20 PM ^

My Dad is a Minnesota alum and he has been arguing about the un-level playing field for years, usually to deaf ears. I have been to many Minnesota-Michigan games an the passion and knowledge of the game is second-to-none, which should be rewarded The Southern and Western schools obviously don't care about setting up a system that is mutually beneficial for the Northern/Eastern schools. So let's take away their guaranteed February home games and give them something to think about other than their football warchests. I think the Fish would be a huge draw in the summer and would be enticing as a recruiting tool to have summer semi-pro baseball, as Brian puts it. This idea is not so radical, and it's implementation is about time.

bronxblue

March 1st, 2012 at 12:29 PM ^

I love the idea.  A major reason that I don't follow college baseball is because the deck seems so solidly stacked against northern teams and I have no desire to watch LSU, Alabama, and Texas battle for another regional championship.  It's like how nobody north of Ohio really cares about college hockey - it's a regional title in the East/Midwest.  That's fine, but nobody says that winning the Beanpot or the NCAA hockey title shows the "elite" athletes the CCHA, WCHA, etc. have and how those teams are the best in the country, but for some reason baseball gets that treatment.

Personally, I'd like to see the northern teams play A-ball teams more - that's the type of exposure that helps both the pros and the local kids, and could create some nice visibility for the talent that does exist in the north.

cm2010

March 1st, 2012 at 6:36 PM ^

The CWS is almost as important to Nebraskans as the Huskers...almost. Taking away the opportunity for them to see the Huskers play in Omaha is the equivalent of taking a child away from its parent and not letting the parent visit.

TESOE

March 1st, 2012 at 12:38 PM ^

It would be cheaper and less disruptive to build domed fields.   I think students come first here...even if the NCAA is screwed up in this regard.  Moving to summer is a huge commitment to semi professional athletic development that doesn't necessarily serve the student athlete without pro aspirations - which are the majority of athletes.  But maybe that is where this is all going anyway...maybe there is too much money here.  The conference networks are changing the game.  Clearly the setup as is ... needs to change.

TESOE

March 1st, 2012 at 4:41 PM ^

The amount of money involved in setting up a new league and integrating with the minors is not going to be insignificant but ... yeah it's steep to build domes but they don't have to metro domes. There has to be another way than breaking up the NCAA. The mission there is a good one if poorly executed.

WolvinLA2

March 1st, 2012 at 12:50 PM ^

Or maybe it does serve the student athlete.  Right now these guys miss a lot of school travelling for spring training and all their away games at the start of the season.  Now they can actually concentrate on school while they're in school, and concentrate on baseball when they aren't.  Sure, they'll miss out on internships, but based on how the old season worked, that probably happened a lot anyway.  And if we leave the NCAA and can give more kids free education, I'd say that's well in favor of the student athlete.

Alton

March 1st, 2012 at 12:59 PM ^

I'm not sure I agree with the argument about internships.

Right now, a medium-level Big Ten scholarship baseball player will spend his summer playing in a summer baseball league.  They're all around, they play 5 games or so a week (just like college baseball), and a motivated individual could hold down an internship while playing Tuesday-Wednesday-Friday night and Saturday-Sunday afternoon.

Here is where Michigan's baseball players spent their summer vacation in 2011:  http://www.mgoblue.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/082211aaa.html

This summer league would just transfer the summer baseball experience from places like Cape Cod and the Shenandoah Valley to places like Ann Arbor and Minneapolis.  It's probably easier to get a summer internship in Evanston, Illinois, or even West Lafayette, Indiana, than it is in Winchester, Virginia or Kodiak, Alaska.

Sambojangles

March 1st, 2012 at 5:24 PM ^

Exactly, I think this would actually be better for the B1G student athletes. Right now they miss significant parts of Winter semester, a time when everyone else is taking a full load of "real" classes. It must be hard on them. If we can make an alternate schedule where they would only play from Spring Break until the end of the semester (end of April), and even then only a few games, and have a full-time schedule throughout the summer, it could avoid the problems of having them spend half a semester in Florida all the time.

Sons of Louis Elbel

March 1st, 2012 at 12:55 PM ^

Anything that weakens the NCAA is good, pretty much by definition, but could we really pull out in one sport and not others, to say nothing of offering more schollies in that sport? The NCAA might be willing to let BYU get away w/it; I have a feeling they'd put up more of a fight if a whole conference tried it.

ommeethatsees

March 1st, 2012 at 1:21 PM ^

I would agree with your statement if it was a conference with less influence than B1G. I think the attempt may even change the dynamics of the whole discussion because it would certainly make the NCAA nervous. We bring a lot of attention to the NCAA with football and basketball and the thought of even remotely ever losing those sports could possibly bring the NCAA around.

myrtlebeachmai…

March 1st, 2012 at 12:59 PM ^

I thoroughly disagree with the Great Author.  I saw this story yesterday and couldn't help but think this is a true case of throwing the baby out with the bath water.  I also believe that this North/South thing is horribly miscontrued, it's really a North vs South/West thing.  The "South" is not the outlier.

First of all, secession would not likely be so cut and dried.  The primary question that comes to mind is:  Would the NCAA allow it?  Sure you can run non-NCAA club sports all you want;  however what non-NCAA sanctioned club sports are there (or non-NCAA Varsity for that matter) that offer scholarships?  Does this currently exist elsewhere?  I'd believe that when the non NCAA athletic-based scholly talk started, it'd cross some line with the NCAA. 

Secondly, the debate among college baseball circles has been two-fold.  1)  Start of season dates, and 2)  Out of conference away games for northern teams. 

The problem the North has had in trying to "fix" college baseball is attacking the start dates - trying to push them back.  This will NOT fix things.  Good luck getting the premier teams of the South/West to travel away from home just because the season starts later and it's 10 degrees warmer in Ann Arbor.  Even within the South/West the "big dogs" don't ever leave home (except for occasional big rivalries to another dominate team's place i.e. South Carolina going to Clemson as part of home-and-home).  The North has it no worse than most second tier, and mid-major schools from the South/West in this regards. 

For the above reasons, the real answer lies in getting the NCAA to limit the number of non-conference home games allowed.  Check out some dominant West Coast/Southern teams' schedules.  Do you really think they stay put b/c of weather?  No, it's because they can.  The NCAA needs to mandate teams get out on the road by limiting the number of games you can host.  Preferably, even encourage inter-conference early season match-ups ala "The Big Ten/ACC Challenge" in hoops.  Once you get the home-greedy bastards away form their advantageous confines, then they may realize it's damn cold in some of the places they now have to travel to, and be more receptive to changing season start dates. ** Most importantly** the North would have tons of allies outside the power teams in the West and South right there with them advocating for this (unlike the date change issue which the North will always fight against all the others).

There are not the steep financial repercussions (like there would be in football if a power school had to give up home gates - hurting both the power and the sacrificial lamb) to consider here, or prevent this from happening.  Also, by allowing some Northern teams to reduce travel costs, they may have more $$ to put towards sheltered/indoor facilities - which FYI even most of your dominant Southern schools have - it does rain/pour here in the spring - not all sunshine and roses. 

I think it'd be a tragic mistake for the BT, or any other conference to drop NCAA participation.  Realistically, the best players in baseball, like hockey, never even make it to college.  Those that do are looking for an NCAA student athlete experience.  I fear losing that would turn BT baseball into a far worse entity than most are realizing. 

What would be the incentive to choose college over Single A ball - since most of these kids are drafted somewhere?  The talent would drop significantly, even if made MLB friendly (wood bats, play vs minor leagues, etc) as kids chose to go straight into an organizations developmental program, rather than play for nothing in college.  The prospective competition against the great baseball schools is enough to have drawn some kids in in the first place.

Get busy advocating a plausible change that could have the desired ripple effects you want, rather than re-tooling the whole system.  Be cautious, because if the BT sets precedence with this on a sport-by-sport basis, others like the SEC might sit up and take notice, and decide to have their own non-NCAA sanctioned National Championship for football.

 

BJNavarre

March 1st, 2012 at 1:42 PM ^

Any conference that is in a situation like Big Ten Baseball should consider leaving the NCAA and creating a better situation for itself, if it is possible. If the Big Ten creates a semi-pro league, they will, at worst, attract the same level of talent as they did before. These kids come to play for their local school, not because of any thoughts of glory in the CWS.

 

Sambojangles

March 1st, 2012 at 5:19 PM ^

To your first point: yes, there are scholarship sports that exist outside of the NCAA structure.

The one I am most familiar with is sailing: some schools offer scholarships (Stanford, College of Charleston, some of the Ivys [side note: spelled Ivys or Ivies?]) and some just offer scholarship level support (paying for coaches, travel, and equipment, even though the students pay for school themselves). It's run by the ICSA, and so it has none of the NCAA requirements to deal with.  Michigan's sailing team is a club sport, but competes against the other schools that receive much more financial and institutional support.

Also, men's rowing also is not NCAA-sanctioned, and they have their own NGB, NC, etc. I'm sure there are even more sports that exist somewhere between the club and varsity levels at various schools without actually being sponsored by the NCAA.

One more point that I don't know much about, but might be worth exploring: how do individual sports work with the NCAA? If you are a talented boxer or wrestler or swimmer or track athlete, I'm sure you do a series of competitions outside of school, conference, and NCAA events. And some athletes are even too good for any kind of school competition (figure skaters Davis and White, Michigan students). People are going to look for the "right" level of competition for their own talent level, taking into account their own aspirations. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I think my point is that the NCAA does not have to be the be-all and end-all of college athletics (despite their name). There may be ways to improve the situation for some schools in certain sports outside of the current system and its obvious flaws.

Wazoo

March 1st, 2012 at 2:00 PM ^

Agree with poster who stated that Brian's idea would impact players plaing in Cape Cod league.  Any idea where UM players played last summer?  If the team spends so much time in the south early in the season, how in the world are they able to take classes at UM or at least do well in classes in the spring?  A month off would make catching up very hard. 

Asgardian

March 1st, 2012 at 2:53 PM ^

Yeah I'm not sold. They suggest to tell these kids:

(1) You won't play as much college ball outside the Big 10, so you won't get at bats against top college competition

(2) We're moving your season to the summer, so now your college and summer seasons overlap so you have to choose one and can't do both like everybody else

If you weren't getting inferior talent before (you were), doing this will make sure that you do get inferior talent in the future.

 

The fall ball idea might not be as bad, but I don't know much about the details of college baseball.

lhglrkwg

March 1st, 2012 at 2:54 PM ^

Obviously the rest of the country isn't willing to make any sacrifices to help us out so let's leave the NCAA and make ourselves a minor league system. It'd be a giant middle finger to the NCAA and the rest of D1 baseball and I'm sure it would improve the quality of the program.

I'm imagining a system where every game beer is served (players can drink too, why not?) and after every game each player is given a $100 check by prominent boosters and some free stuff just because we can. It sounds so fun

orillia

March 1st, 2012 at 2:57 PM ^

I live in Oregon - it rains A LOT.  Oregon state and now recently University of Oregon also have to play all of their non league games in California and Arizona.  Half of their conference is in the south.  For years the two Oregon schools whined that it isn't fair - Oregon even dropped baseball because it wasn't fair.  Both schools are now consistently ranked in the top 25 nationally because they went and got top coaches and accepted the challenge.....oh yeah and Oregon state won two national titles a few years back.  Recruit players, develop them and get rewarded.....look at Michigan softball.  Here in Oregon we also have two Ncaa div. 3 baseball teams who have won national championships within the last dozen years or so plus a softball team (University of Washington - D1 and Linfield D3)

 

IT CAN BE DONE

Hardware Sushi

March 1st, 2012 at 4:06 PM ^

I creamed my pants reading this idea. People always assume if the Big Ten removes itself from CWS contention, they won't get great recruits.

Offer 22 schollies. Wood bats. Create a new set of amateur-professional guidelines with the MLB. Put it all on TV. Link up with a minor league system at least part of the time. Get the teams in the midwest and New England to play along.

You'll find plenty of great recruitings willing to play north of the Mason-Dixon in April-August, especially since most of their season will be school-free and like playing in the minor leagues anyway - except you get a degree from a good school.

Ohiowild

May 26th, 2012 at 8:00 AM ^

plus midwest families with talented players interested in education will jump at the alternative. 

If they really want to freak out the NCAA status quo they should work with MLB to get the draft moved. 

More exposure for their free farm system is precious to the other pro leagues

cm2010

March 1st, 2012 at 5:52 PM ^

Amateur baseball already has a limited appeal. Now you want to take away Omaha? Anyone that has been to the CWS knows this beyond a terrible idea. It's a national festival for college baseball, not even trying to get there is like waving the white flag. Michigan wasn't that far away in 2007, they can get there. Michigan regularly gets itself into the tournament, then you just win 5 games and you're in. Southwest Missouri State made it about 5 years ago, Wichita State has made it relatively easily, this is not as impossible as it seems. 

MDubs

March 1st, 2012 at 5:57 PM ^

I like Brian's idea.

The only benefit to staying in NCAA is a chance at the CWS...which we never make.  If we go our own way the dates of the season make sense according to upper-midwest weather, scholarship rules can be modified, and pretty much damn near anything else we would want to do. 

Plus, I like the precedent of a sport going its own way.  I don't get why people are so in love with the NCAA.  Sometimes it works, but when it doesn't it shouldn't be so hard to accept the idea that a better alternative ought to be available for certain sports/situations. 

cm2010

March 1st, 2012 at 6:23 PM ^

What happens if a player is drafted in June? Can they not be drafted, or do they skip the rest of the season. If it's the former, no one will want to play in the B1G. If it's the latter, you'll have championships decided by teams that are without all of their best players. Neither of these scenarios seem better than the squo. And before people say not many players are drafted out of the B1G, 19 were taken last year, and 26 the year before that.

Additionally, playing games in July when there aren't nearly as many people in AA also doesn't seem too bright. 

Yostnut

March 1st, 2012 at 9:47 PM ^

Doesn't the same logic about going on the road for the first two months of the season apply to softball too? If not, why not? I mean, Michigan has done pretty well recently in the Women's College World Series. What do the women know that their male counterparts don't?

chris1709

March 1st, 2012 at 11:52 PM ^

we should leave the NCAA ans pay our baseball players, as well as let them have contracts with teams. We could all of a sudden get a ton of talent this way ! SOmethign this awsome has no way of coming true unfourtanatley. :(

fifthangell

April 5th, 2012 at 8:15 AM ^

The Big Ten could form a summer baseball league similar to the Cape Cod League. It would allow the teams to still play NCAA baseball in the spring, and then continue playing in the summer. The BTN Network could broadcast the games. Potentially it would help counteract some of the recruiting advantage the southern conferences have.

Ohiowild

May 26th, 2012 at 7:44 AM ^

More scholarships would be great but would be tough on the big east, CUSA and MAC schools we would invite to join us.

 

where would big ten quality baseball compare to the options?