would transfer to another school that runs the spread,along with ever other player that rich recuirted!!!A couple may stay!!!
spoiler alert: i linked this
From this point on I don't care about the following opinions on what Rich Rodriguez deserves after three years:
I also don't have anything that's definitive. We know that there is no McMahon-style "you're firrrrrrrred" press conference today, and given the way things work that means Rodriguez will be the coach through the bowl game. We know that the rumors were heavy enough for Dave Brandon to personally debunk them on the twitters. We can read the withering sarcasm between the lines of this from Brandon…
…and if it's not withering sarcasm* I don't want to know.
I've got some stuff in the inbox and from elsewhere. A bit of it says Rodriguez is getting fired, period, citing "impeccable sources." Another from before the OSU game reports second hand that Harbaugh "has an offer" while expressing skepticism at the nature of the information given its timing—what if Michigan had won Saturday? Some other stuff has filtered to me via talkative former players all saying "canned," as well.
The part I trust—the one that called Brandon as the likely new AD and tipped me off about the Alabama game—is far from certain except about one thing: anyone who says anything with certainty is full of it. Brandon keeps his own counsel and makes his own decisions. Since Brandon has a direct line to the obvious head coaching candidate there will be no search committee or consultants tapped or planning, cutting off virtually all of the usual leak sources. It's unlikely anyone has anything until hours before it breaks, at which point it will be everywhere.
I'm not inclined to put much in the widespread chatter that had RR out the door after the OSU game and seems to be continuing since its sourcing seems to be pissed-off-you-guys folk clearly unhappy with the state of the program taking small interactions and interpreting them as they desire. However, the vibe I'm getting from other people who seem to be on the fence about what to do—or at least close to it—also makes it seem unlikely Rodriguez is back. Emphasis on all the qualifying words in the previous sentence, please. I've got nothing solid because no one does.
In the event that happens, Harbaugh is the obvious #1 guy, with the main sticking point being Harbaugh's willingness to accept the imposition of a silly, off-putting buyout in case any NFL teams get ideas. It sounds like if the decision is made to pursue Harbaugh, something will be worked out and he will be introduced essentially immediately. They won't get rid of Rodriguez unless they know they have the next coach lined up.
So… that's what I've got. I'm uncertain about everything. I guess that's good from a program standpoint, but it's frustrating when the next month will see Michigan's future hang in the balance with nothing trustworthy to put a foot on.
*(Not specifically about Desmond, who tweeted a couple things about how he had faith in Brandon to make the decision. More the "Appreciate the passion & interest," random talk-radio raver.)
would transfer to another school that runs the spread,along with ever other player that rich recuirted!!!A couple may stay!!!
no chance in hell Denard leaves UM. NEVER. he bleeds Blue. ive seen a lot of players come and go. he is the face of UM footaball for the next 2 years no matter what coach we have. he know hes not an nfl Qb. he will be on the field. thats all he cares about. hes as humble as it gets.
I'm not saying you're wrong because a lot changes in two years from high school to college, but Denard did turn down an offer as a corner, he's a quarterback and will do whatever he can to play QB. Whether he leaves or not is impossible to say, but I'd bet the house that it's QB or bust for Denard.
My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that part of what people did not like about Coach Rodriguez's departure from West Virginia is that he "bailed" on his team when they were off to a BCS bowl in one of the best seasons in the school's history.
So, were Michigan to pursue, in the next month, the coach whom many of the people that would like to see a change at the top would like to see coaching Michigan, would he not be leaving a school that is likely playing in a BCS bowl (though not the one they would want due to strange circumstance.)
Would the difference be that the one left his alma mater for Michigan while the other would be leaving another school for his alma mater?
I understand that there are a multitude of other factors in play, but doesn't it seem strange that one of the things that got Coach Rodriguez off on the wrong foot with much of the local media and Michigan fanbase would be completely acceptable to many of said same people in this case?
I don't think a lot of people in this state were mad that he bailed. Does anybody really think he would have abandoned his alma mater in a BCS conference if he thought he could build the program he wanted there? On a side note, the WV ever fire that AD that screwed there state's beloved BBall and Football programs by running of two great coaches?
Yes, the alma mater factor is the difference.
Rodriguez left before the bowl game, if this thing plays out Harbaugh would potentially be leaving Stanford after its bowl.
You're getting some good use out of that iPhone.
If you get confused, listen to the music play
Ok, this clip isnt from that song/lyric, but the refrain in this song reminds me a lot of what Dave Brandon is trying to tell everyone. "Leave me alone, to I find my own way home."
Regardless, the music helps. Its not useless din or chatter, which is all this debate seems to offer. Enjoy the tune. Go Blue. Beat Missou/Tamu/random Big 12 fodder in the Insight Bowl
for the Robert Hunter lyric!!
I'm just not sold on Harbaugh. The Pac-10 is very weak this year. Maybe if Stanford pastes whoever in the bowl I will believe. However, is Stanford really all that different than UM right now? One man band offense, Luck vs Denard. Better defense but again the Pac-10 sucks, they got pasted by Oregon, otherwise who have they really played?
I think the things that are going to kill Rich Rod (besides the D): the lack of a kicker/special teams, turnovers in the redzone and not being prepared/hyped for the start of big games.
Either the above or RichRod has pushed to rush the offense to get quick results while overlooking fundamentals because of the pressure. I just don't remember WVU being this disorganized etc.
By no means am I going to say the Pac-10 is super strong, but is the Big Ten really that good this year either? The Pac-10 has 2 teams in the Top 10. The Big Ten has 3. After that both conferences have a bunch of teams hovering around 500.
Well here are the standing of both conferences
Pac-10 BIG TEN
*Oregon 11-0 Wisconsin 11-1
Stanford 11-1 Ohio State 11-1
*Arizona 7-4 Michigan State 11-1
USC 7-5 Iowa 7-5
*Oregon State 5-6 Penn State 7-5
*Washington 5-6 Michigan 7-5
*Arizona State 5-6 Northwestern 7-5
California 5-7 *Illinois 6-5
*UCLA 4-7 Indiana 5-7
*Washington State 2-9 Purdue 4-8
(*) denotes team with 1 game remaining in regular season.
Bases solely on this information (because that's all the time I'm willing to put into this argument) it looks like the Big Ten is do better this year. And even though the Pac-10 has more regular season games left, they're all in conference, so while one team gets better another gets worst.
what would the big ten overall records look like if they had to drop a non-conference cupcake and play 9 conference games like the Pac-10? Half the big ten teams would have one more loss than they do now.
Ok but thats not a valid argument because its a case that can't be proven. What if Penn State takes Alabama off (a game they lost) and Purdue takes ND off (a game they lost). Now you've just added a win to the conference. There are way to many "what if's" with that argument. Im not saying records are concrete evidence for who is better, however between following/watching the Big Ten, living in Califorina and having to watch alot of Pac-10 (because thats whats on), and using records, I would say that the Big Ten has a slightly better conference from top to bottom.
But part of that would also be because the conference is stronger top to bottom.
Has a top 10 SOS. You can be a RR supporter and still recognize the success Harbaugh has had.
That depends on your source.
Sagarin - 8. Massey 3.
Colley - 56. Anderson - 48.
Mixed bag. I'm sorry but they have played Oregon, Arizona and ??????? The Pac-10 has only 3 bowl eligible teams right now. Top heavy.
Harbaugh also has Luck. Now credit to him for developing a great QB, but I live in Houston (1 mile from his HS stadium saw him play) and this kid would be a superstar anywhere. He also had a Heisman RB last year. Take away Toby and Luck and what would Harbaugh have done?
He has done a good job but JH supporters need to be as scrutinizing with him as they are of RichRod.
How stupid. Take away Denard, and how would Michigan have done this year?
Take away Tim Tebow and how would Florida have done.
Let's continue this jejune argument.
Wait, let's not.
Well, just to point it out, we saw what Michigan could do without Denard in, what, part of 11 out of 12 games this year?
I'm sorry but that's a weak argument. You take away any coach's best players and of course he's going to fail.
Part of the job of a coach is to harness these great talents and unleash them for their benefit and win games.
stanford has basically NEVER been a player in the wac 10. harbaugh inherited a 1-10 team with higher academic standards then UM. JH knows what the fuk hes doin on the recruiting trail. the lifeblood of a consistant team year in and out.
The real issue with Harbaugh comes down to his ultimate ambitions. Is Michigan a destination job for him or does he have designs on the NFL?
By my understanding, some NFL teams (namely the 49ers) will be considering Harbaugh this offseason. If his goals are indeed the NFL, he will probably have the opportunity to go there as soon as January 2011.
1. Let’s see what RR and GERG do with the extra bowl practices and see how their offense and defense performs in the bowl game;
2. Let’s see what RR wants to do with GERG/defense after the bowl game;
3. UM hasn’t gone to a bowl game in 2 years, a potential RR firing now would either stymie UM from going to its bowl game or would prevent UM from legitimately competing in its game;
4. See which coaches are available after the bowls;
5. Allegedly a buy-out reduction after Jan 1st;
6. Making an immediate statement that RR is here another year could be a mistake. What if UM gets blanked 60-0 in its bowl game?
7. What would firing RR now do to bowl performance, current team morale, recruits, coach search?
8. Not making a statement either way makes RR (and GERG) fight for their jobs and worth.
I am OK with waiting until after the bowl game. The endorphin rush of hitting the refresh button every few minutes and getting/receiving txt/skype/facebook messages should not be why we need to immediately know whether or not we keep the head coach of Michigan football. [excuse me while I refresh the browser to see if there is any new information]
Or, because speculating is fun, what if the coach Brandon still needs to evaluate is GERG? See what kind of progress he can make with the young kids before the bowl game and go from there. If Brandon came out and said RR is his guy right now, the very next question would be about the defensive coordinator. Maybe he is just not ready to make that call yet.
Why the hell would you want him around this team for another 14 practices? Fire his ass today. If he is not gone by the bowl game, expect Rich Rod to be fired after that game. If he is fired before the game, Rich Rod will be back next year.
I don't get why people are so concerned about recruiting problems in waiting until after the bowl. It might have some effect, but I don't think it will be that big of a deal.
The assumption that if RR gets fired and JH hired on Jan. 2 then the recruiting class blows up doesn't seem realistic to me. RR is a good recruiter but so is JH. Some that are interested in Michigan now will be less interested if RR is gone, but others will be more interested if JH is in. We'd probably lose a commit or two but we'd also get some of Stanford's current commits. This is not going to affect the program drastically either way.
I agree. Looking at our recruiting class, I don't know who I think would bail if JH was hired. Sousa, probably, but that's about it. Would Dallas Crawford bail? I don't see why, but I bet at least one CB would want to play for the new M if he left. Would Dee Hart bail? Maybe, but he'd likely be enrolled by January so it would be hard for him to do that. Also, he seems to really love UM, and wants to be with Ricardo. Remember, his other major choice was Alabama who runs a pro-style offense. There aren't many "RR Offense-specific" recruits in this class.
The in-state players would likely love to play for Harbaugh, maybe even prefer it. It would probably help with Zettel, I bet.
I would argue that going to Harbaugh would help recruiting, it would bring interest from new parties at the end of the cycle, and kids who were sold on M with RR would likely be sold on M with JH too.
being an excellent recruiter. Many of the problems on the field go directly to the players he recruited. Small and fast but not fast enough to cope with bigger players with similar speed. That is why there are so many injuries on the team.
Regarding whether RR is retained, I believe a good indication is the Brandon has not endorsed him and the past season was not successful according to Michigan standards. Also, when RR was asked about his job in the post game presser, he clearly appeared to be a coach who knows he will be let go.
The bowl game result will have little to do with the decision. I believe Brandon knows what he is going to do which is to fire RR. He is waiting until after the bowl game to do this because the entire staff will be let go saving considerable money with the January termination. In the meantime, he is lining up a possible replacement.
Brandon is business first and that would be the best business decision.
Sometimes you're in no hurry to make a decision simply because doing so eliminates an opportunity to let the situation resolve itself. What if Rich Rod is a candidate at Miami, Clemson, etc., and gets one of those jobs? Problem solved. If Brandon fires the coach, in the end, the result is the same, but he has to pay seven figures for the privilege.
"Pimp hand", indeed.
I think offensively he's a solid recruiter. A lot of his recruits on offense are already playing key roles: Denard, Lewan, Omameh, Roundtree, Smith. Others have come in and made good contributions: Khoury, Hopkins. All appear to have bright futures.
Defensively is where I question his recruiting. There aren't to many impact players so far on the defensive side of the ball. Roh is probably it and with how it appears he was misused for most the year I'm not sure you can say he had a huge impact this year. Demens looks like he could have a bright future, but we were thinking the same thing about Mouton and possibly Ezeh two years ago at this time.
If it is JH, just winning a BCS or upper level bowl will go a long way towards keeping/bringing the recruit class together.
EDIT: sounds like we have an echo, beaten by one post.
I support RR as well, but I wish we could end this circus one way or the other and move on with whatever DB decides to do.
Is this guy still around?
Denard is arguably one of the 4-5 preseason favorites for the 2011 Heisman.
Rodriguez will be alright no matter what.
He has no long-term endorsement from UM. At some stage he has to be saying to himself "fuck this noise" and put out feelers for longer term opportunities like Miami (FL), Clemson, Tulane. I would not blame him at all for doing so. He'll likely land well on both feet and ever so softly.
As I re-watched the game footage of Stanford's proctology exam against Oregon, against that New Hampshire-spread option offense (giving up 31 first downs, 52 points and 626 yards total offense), well I just hope Michigan's future teams never face off against Rich Rodriguez in a bowl or non-conference game. I hate thinking about all of those kharmic examples of "former Michigan coaches" getting their revenge on the Wolverines years later (Alex Agase, Don James, Bill McCartney).
I'll take that action if it comes to pass Markus. Can't think of a better way to pump up Michigan's offensive stats.
really? what do you think Oregon would have done to us this year?
Miami is another power program that is swimming around at .500. They are in a worse position than Michigan in some ways. At least we have a current coach that has a winning track record as a head coach somewhere.
I just saw on ESPN Joe Schad saying that they feel no need to rush either. I don't know if that makes anyone feel better about the delay or not?
What Brian is saying is probably very close to the reality. It just makes sense when you remove emotions and think about it.
I don't understand why anyone would be for announcing the firing of Rich right now. If we want JH, won't he be reluctant to commit to UM right now since he is going to a BCS game?
I thought we were really hurt last time around when Carr announced he was leaving prior to the bowl season. Martin had to scramble and try to find guys willing to jump ship on their programs that were going to bowls. Isn't it easier to let the bowl season play out and then try to go after the best guys?
What am I missing?
National Signing Day is less than a month after the end of Bowl Season
It's never a good idea for an AD to wait until after the bowl game to fire a coach (or for a retiring coach to wait until after the bowl game to announce his departure). You don't learn anything from the bowl game that you don't already know, and you give yourself very little time to find a successor and mitigate the damage to your recruiting class. That's why it's hard for me to believe that Brandon is serious about waiting until after the Bowl to make a decision and isn't already working behind the scenes to bring in Harbaugh.
Wonder of the head coach's office at Schembechler Hall has it's own bathroom with a shower. If not, they should probably start building one. It could be a cryptic message sent by David Brandon to Jim Harbaugh. And, hey, even if he isn't interested, at least Rich Rod won't have to shred papers when he is let go, he can just flush them down the toilet, along with GERG's hair, defensive schemes, and his stuffed animal. =)
BTW: Lloyd announcing he was leaving before the bowl game was a terrible decision for us. It probably hurt recruiting and made it that much harder to find a coach, I agree with the previous post. A small part of me hold's some angst against Coach Carr. He knew people wanted him out after App state, Oregon, 7-5, etc. Sometimes I think he timed it so that a coaching search would have been a fiasco and we'd find ourselves at the point we are now, looking back at how good we had it. I know he had class and was a great coach, but EVERYONE has an ego, can't deny that. At least now we have a competent AD who knows Kirk Herbstreit would like nothing more than to ruin our search, AGAIN. Hopefully when Jim Harbaugh is hired, Herbstreit poops his pants and then shows Terrelle Pryor his pants and says, "See? I'm not a fake buckeye, I am scared of this!"
Isn't that a huge stretch? When is Carr supposed to announce? By the way, a lot of stuff I have read the last few years by the more reliable posters seems to suggest that Carr wanted out a year earlier, but was talked into staying by Bill Martin. If that is even close to the truth, then Martin had a long time to do his searching. And doesn't any Athletic Director worth his salt have a list of potential replacements, for all his coaches, in the event of drastic circumstances? Blaming Carr for the timing of his retirement is not new, but to me it sure seems like grasping at straws. On the long list of how things went down that negatively impacted the program, wouldn't there be about 497 other things that come first?
I've heard Carr say himself that he wanted to retire at the end of the 2006 season. He was asked to stay by Martin and Coleman.
... either way.
He'll get picked up by another school (Miami?) and he'll get the time he needs. He won't have the arrogance and constant bashing of "fans". He won't be hearing the "You're not doing it the [insert school here] way!"
People will be mum, let him do his job, and watch the BCS appearances roll in.
Yes, he'll end up laughing at Ann Arbor for letting him go down the road. And when Michigan's pro-style offense meets Rodriguez in a bowl game or non-conference game, chalk up Rodriguez with the 'W'. Stanford had no chance against Oregon's spread attack, and Michigan will be in the same boat.
Rodriguez was hired to do something drastically different. I agree, it has been a shit ride with not many results, but my god the fan base reminds me of teenage women getting pissed at their diets or something because they haven't become non-obese in 2 and a half days.
The spread is enjoying considerable success, as most ranked teams use a spread of some variation, including No. 1 Oregon, No. 2 Auburn, and No. 3 TCU.
If he stays in Ann Arbor, and delivers on his promise to make this the best football program in America (a promise I believe he can achieve), then he gets to laugh at all his critics.
If I'm Rodriguez, I kind of want out of Ann Arbor anyways, there's no respect. Hell, the guy was already blacklisted by the "Michigan faithful" before he announced to WVU that he would be leaving. It's been a constant barrage of bullshit from every whichway before he even moved into his office in Schembechler Hall.
my friend are right,the top teams in the nation run the spread,please Michigan fans you just need to relax.The first 2 seasons shouldn't even count on rich rods record.Why?,because he didn't have any players that fit his style when he got here.Last year we played 2 true freshmen at the most important postion on the field QB.