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The Axeman, Publicized

By Brian — September 24th, 2010 at 3:24 PM — 65 comments
Filed under:
  • nick saban
  • oversigning
  • alabama

 nick-saban axeman-mech
give the guy on the left some autocannons and the resemblance is uncanny

Mainstream media have begun to catch on to the scam Nick Saban is running down in Tuscaloosa. Via everyone in the world who emailed, twittered, or IMed it to me, the Wall Street Journal on a small section of Saban's insatiable desire for more spots in his recruiting class:

"I'm still kind of bitter," said former Alabama linebacker Chuck Kirschman, who took a medical scholarship last year. Mr. Kirschman said Mr. Saban encouraged him to accept the scholarship because of a back problem that he believes he could have played through. "It's a business," Mr. Kirschman said. "College football is all about politics. And this is a loophole in the system."

Surprise!

The WSJ does miss an opportunity to draw a stark contrast between the rate of medical scholarships at Alabama and elsewhere in the SEC, even though they dug up the numbers. I used the LOL for good and made a graph. Here it is:

chartgo

Just a coincidence, surely.

This is actually the less odious bit of Saban's merry disembowelings since the kids he cuts via this method get to stay in school on scholarship (and don't hurt the APR), but it's still a way for him to skirt competitive equity. He gets to try out four extra kids a year and then dump them. The NCAA's in a tough spot since it's tough to discern between scam artists like Saban and legitimate cases like Antonio Bass, but suffice it to say this is a dangerous precedent to set. The NCAA has to close this loophole.

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:32 PM | I talked to a few bama fans (Score:1)
Blue in sec country
Joined: 07/09/2010
MGoPoints: 1319

I talked to a few bama fans 10-15 and they all feel that if it isn't against the rules then there isn't a problem. He is coaching at the perfect place as long as he is winning people don't care. Hopefully Haha sees the light and follows dee to A2.

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September 24th, 2010 at 4:06 PM | Yep. Our coach is just (Score:1)
Bill in Birmingham
Joined: 08/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2872

Yep. Our coach is just smarter than everybody else.

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September 24th, 2010 at 4:37 PM | This is sore subject (Score:1)
Blumanji
Blumanji's picture
Joined: 08/11/2010
MGoPoints: 379

People in Bama highly dislike Brian for pursuing this subject.

Keep fighting the good fight.

O-H-You-SUCK

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September 24th, 2010 at 9:35 PM | Yep. Just another vile Yankee (Score:1)
Bill in Birmingham
Joined: 08/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2872

Yep. Just another vile Yankee attacking that godly man. Almost as bad as those latte sippin' jackasses who write for that commie Wall Street Journal.

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:36 PM | I think the only way (Score:1)
Blazefire
Blazefire's picture
Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 15742

To close this loophole is to have NCAA licensed doctors that examine the kids and give the medical scholarship OK or not.

"This is the EMU game, not the emo game."
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September 24th, 2010 at 4:05 PM | This seems the best approach (Score:1)
Bill in Birmingham
Joined: 08/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2872

This seems the best approach to me. Kids do get hurt playing football. I don't think schools should be punished for legitimate injuries. An independent medical review would seem to be fair to all parties, unless the NCAA chooses to be its usual tower of jello self when it comes to real compliance issues.

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September 24th, 2010 at 4:29 PM | Catastrophic vs. recoverable (Score:1)
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 4163

Seems like the difference is that 'Bama is using these scholarships for players who get injuries that limit their development and require a relatively long recovery time (the article mentions a blown ACL and a back injury, presumably a disc issue), whereas all other teams are using them for the catastrophic Antonio Bass, Dadrian Taylor type injuries, catastrophic injuries that unquestionably end the ability to play. Perhaps that is the distinction that could be helpful with an independent NCAA medical evaluation being the judge (seems a shame to get the NCAA involved in medical issues, but if one team is acquiring significant competitive advantages by skirting medical scholarship rules, don't really see what the other options are. Well, that, or soon other teams are going to start throwing out equal numbers of medical hardship scholarships and we'll be back to the days where the functional scholarship limit is 125 (5 years of 25 scholarships per).

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:37 PM | In re the graph (Score:1)
burntorangeblue
Joined: 12/19/2009
MGoPoints: 798

I'm no Saban supporter, but the article says that Bama offered 12 medical schollies, and that 25 med schollies in the rest of the SEC were accepted.  So, who knows how the actual comparative numbers come out.  Just sayin'. 

de'nard dog: michigan, ever heard of it?

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September 24th, 2010 at 7:24 PM | Given the circumstances, the (Score:1)
speakeasy
speakeasy's picture
Joined: 04/24/2009
MGoPoints: 545

Given the circumstances, the alternative to accepting a medical scholarship seems to be mysteriously violating team rules and be off of the team and out of luck with paying for school.

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September 24th, 2010 at 7:44 PM | Yeah... (Score:1)
burntorangeblue
Joined: 12/19/2009
MGoPoints: 798

I didn't mean to imply that that the numbers aren't an indictment, but merely that the ones cited are a little misleading.

de'nard dog: michigan, ever heard of it?

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:37 PM | Just my epinion (Score:1)
JonSobel
JonSobel's picture
Joined: 10/07/2009
MGoPoints: 772

but the SEC as a whole has always seemed like the sleazy mafia side of college football.  Always successful, but you're never sure if it's because they're better at the game or breaking the rules.  It's just been a gut feeling of mine for as long as I've been watching the game.

"I figure if I can get two degrees from Ohio State, it might be close to Elliott’s undergraduate degree"  -- Brock

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:38 PM | It will be schadenfreudelicious (Score:1)
Twisted Martini
Twisted Martini's picture
Joined: 08/30/2009
MGoPoints: 1191

When Jerrah Jones comes in with a bigger Brinks truck and The Axeman and his blow-dryer are off to Dallas.  The wailing out of Tuscaloosa will be audible across 5 states.

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:38 PM | Sad that we can play with (Score:1)
unitedposter
unitedposter's picture
Joined: 07/05/2009
MGoPoints: 30

Sad that we can play with teen's futures this way

 

and that's a hatchetman...

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:38 PM | saban loophole (Score:1)
entirely reasonable
entirely reasonable's picture
Joined: 07/24/2008
MGoPoints: 2515

decided schematic advantage

"Play hard and with great effort"

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:39 PM | I wonder what are the chances (Score:1)
bluenyc
bluenyc's picture
Joined: 06/25/2010
MGoPoints: 7029

I wonder what are the chances ESPN does a story on this, like Outside the Lines.  Who am I kidding, I would have a better chance with Erin Andrews.

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September 24th, 2010 at 4:02 PM | Will if you have good luck (Score:1)
Bill in Birmingham
Joined: 08/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2872

Will if you have good luck with Erin, maybe she will convince her bosses to go with the story....

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:41 PM | When I was at a small NAIA (Score:1)
The Mathlete
Joined: 10/01/2008
MGoPoints: 2346

When I was at a small NAIA school we had signed a big-time JUCO recruit who couldn't get ineligible for the NCAA but could for the NAIA. I asked our HC what happened when he didn't show and he told it was an old-fashioned SEC Miracle and he was now eligible for the NCAA.

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:42 PM | Well, to be fair... (Score:1)
DeutschBlue
Joined: 01/04/2009
MGoPoints: 223

We used a medical scholarship on Antonio Bass a few years ago.  It must have been because we had so many athletic, dual threat quarterbacks ahead of him on the depth chart in 08.  Us Michigan fans are such hypocrites with these things, of course....

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:51 PM | lolwut (Score:1)
Magnum P.I.
Magnum P.I.'s picture
Joined: 07/16/2009
MGoPoints: 2746

"There was a time I could have been mistaken for Burt Reynolds. I had a moustache and so did he. But he was the number one star in the world, so there wasn't really much confusion."

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September 24th, 2010 at 4:12 PM | Just because I did get negged on this post... (Score:1)
DeutschBlue
Joined: 01/04/2009
MGoPoints: 223

/s

(sarcasm) (I would think that the mention of athletic, dual threat quarterbacks in 08 would have given it away, but just want to verify, for the MSU grads out there)

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September 24th, 2010 at 6:50 PM | And IIRC, that was after 2 (Score:1)
ats
Joined: 09/20/2009
MGoPoints: 80

And IIRC, that was after 2 years of rehabbing on scholarship and he wasn't transfered to medical scholarship until the doctors had tried everything and basically said "you'll be able to walk but won't ever be able to run, cut, jump, etc"

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:43 PM | nice. (Score:1)
matty blue
matty blue's picture
Joined: 08/01/2008
MGoPoints: 377

i love that the journal - without exception, if i'm not mistaken - refers to everyone as "mr."

thanks for continuing to chase this, "mister" cook.

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September 24th, 2010 at 4:06 PM | except for the ladies.  I'm (Score:1)
oriental andrew
oriental andrew's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 4554

except for the ladies.  I'm sure they don't refer to the ladies as "mr."  Pretty sure, anyway...

For my privacy, my new username is "non-Oriental non-Andrew"
 

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:43 PM | I hope the MSM eats this (Score:1)
TheOracle6
TheOracle6's picture
Joined: 09/02/2010
MGoPoints: 1636

I hope the MSM eats this story up and forces Saban to comment on it.  I'd like to see what kind of bullshit lie he throws out there.  Hopefully kids across this country start to see that Saban does not care about you unless you are a prime performer on his team.  Who is the Pimp now Saban?

Champions of the west, GO BLUE!

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September 24th, 2010 at 5:59 PM | If the MSM does pick this up, (Score:1)
Engin77
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2095

I predict several other 'bama medical scholarship recipients will come forward and praise the National Championship winning coach for his humanitarianism. Those (former) players and their families will be spending the rest of their lives in Alabama, and people down there are known to hold a grudge.

Taking it one week at a time

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:45 PM | Why do the kids stay? (Score:1)
PurpleStuff
PurpleStuff's picture
Joined: 04/21/2009
MGoPoints: 10412

It seems like this strategy wouldn't work unless the kids themselves decided not to transfer.  Does anybody know why they are taking this deal?  I know doctors at USC wouldn't clear Jarvis Jones to play (a guy the coaches definitely didn't want leaving the program) and he was looking to transfer out to a school that would give him clearance to play (not sure where he ended up but he was looking at FSU and Georgia from what I remember).  Why aren't more kids looking elsewhere if in fact the injuries in question aren't really career ending?

It is spelled HOKEAMANIA.  Our coach is an ass-kicking American citizen, not one of the Beatles, for Christ's sake!

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September 24th, 2010 at 6:53 PM | because if they aren't going (Score:1)
ats
Joined: 09/20/2009
MGoPoints: 80

because if they aren't going pro, and they've been at the university for a bit, it is often times just easier and more convienient to stay and finish up at the school you are at.

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:46 PM | this is so easy to fix.  just (Score:1)
mjv
mjv's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 364

this is so easy to fix.  just tie each recruit accepting an offer to a scholarship for 4 years, regardless of the recruit playing, leaving early for the NFL, quitting football to become a male model (see Texas post Rout 66).  this aligns the coaches and the players incentives.  The coach wants the player to remain eligible academically.  Maybe increase the number of schollies from 85 to 100 so that the net effect of the change is zero for the average program, but the programs that keep kids around have a benefit.  This is beyond simple. 

Go Blue!! Viva La Revolucion!!
www.wolverineliberationarmy.com

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:48 PM | I like this (Score:1)
Magnum P.I.
Magnum P.I.'s picture
Joined: 07/16/2009
MGoPoints: 2746

.

yes

"There was a time I could have been mistaken for Burt Reynolds. I had a moustache and so did he. But he was the number one star in the world, so there wasn't really much confusion."

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September 24th, 2010 at 4:04 PM | Problem with increasing the (Score:1)
LandonC
Joined: 07/24/2008
MGoPoints: 1998

Problem with increasing the scholarships is that's 15 more you have to add for women's sports for Title IX consideration.  Which means adding a sport.  Which means this probably would never happen.

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September 24th, 2010 at 4:36 PM | Or...you increase all sports (Score:1)
joeyb
joeyb's picture
Joined: 10/12/2008
MGoPoints: 11303

Or...you increase all sports accordingly as the 4-year scholarship deal would be applied across all of them equally.

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September 24th, 2010 at 5:48 PM | I don't know if this is as (Score:1)
LandonC
Joined: 07/24/2008
MGoPoints: 1998

I don't know if this is as big of a problem in the other sports to warrant the increase in scholarship numbers, especially women's teams that already have proportionally higher scholarship numbers than their male counterparts. 

For non-revenue sports, there seems to be a far greater emphasis on chosing a school for academics as well as sports, and you're unlikely to face the sort of roster pressure you do in Football. 

Plus, even adding 15 non-revenue sport scholarships, at a minimum, would probably be a tough economic pill to swallow for all but the top earning athletic programs throughout the country.

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September 24th, 2010 at 6:27 PM | I think that if they force (Score:1)
joeyb
joeyb's picture
Joined: 10/12/2008
MGoPoints: 11303

I think that if they force the scholarships to be 4 years, they will have to force it for all sports. You then get into the same issues with basketball, hockey, baseball, etc. where players leave for drafts early.

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September 24th, 2010 at 4:40 PM | The problem that I see with (Score:1)
joeyb
joeyb's picture
Joined: 10/12/2008
MGoPoints: 11303

The problem that I see with this is that coaches like Dantonio have even more incentive to allow players back on the team after committing crimes.

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:47 PM | Maybe just make the medical (Score:1)
Mustachioed Gen...
Mustachioed Gentleman's picture
Joined: 05/25/2009
MGoPoints: 2747

Maybe just make the medical redshirt count against the scholarships and make an NCAA licensed doctor be the one to make the call.

 

Does it tickle? Only slightly, only slightly.

I upvote any post by BlockM. And Magnus.

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September 24th, 2010 at 4:43 PM | Might help (Score:1)
WolverBean
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 851

This might help in some places, but in Alabama?  I guarantee you they could find a board-certified and NCAA licensed doctor who would put Saban's needs above those of the player.  It's not just an NCAA rules problem when it comes to Alabama.  Remember, this is a fanbase that strongly feels there's nothing wrong with what Saban's doing -- and that includes straight-up cutting people as well as putting others on medical scholarships.

As far as making medical scholarships count against the 85 total... well, that kind of defeats the purpose of a separate medical scholarship, but I guess if there's no other way to close the loophole, that's what'll have to happen.

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September 24th, 2010 at 4:51 PM | In the comments section of (Score:1)
bluenyc
bluenyc's picture
Joined: 06/25/2010
MGoPoints: 7029

In the comments section of the WSJ for this article, someone was saying that he should be cut and the player should be thankful that he gets a free ride.  Amazing, how the fans forget where the lines are.

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:47 PM | Closing the loophole (Score:1)
Magnum P.I.
Magnum P.I.'s picture
Joined: 07/16/2009
MGoPoints: 2746

Should the NCAA just make medical redshirts count against a team's scholarship total?

This doesn't even address the issue of finding convenient reasons to "excuse" a kid from the program and university all together. Maybe scholarship players who are removed from or leave the team should still count against a team's scholarship total for one or two years extra?

Eek! We'd be screwed!

"There was a time I could have been mistaken for Burt Reynolds. I had a moustache and so did he. But he was the number one star in the world, so there wasn't really much confusion."

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September 24th, 2010 at 4:46 PM | No, the medical redshirts (Score:1)
Zone Left
Zone Left's picture
Joined: 07/03/2008
MGoPoints: 13967

No, the medical redshirts shouldn't count against a team and I generally am against non-medical bodies questioning doctor's decisions.  Presumably there is a doctor involved, right?  If I were the 4.0 kid that was removed, I'd probably go to the state's medical ethics board or pursue legal action. 

A team like Alabama should have no problem finding excellent medical staffers to accurately evaluate its players.  It should also have no problem finding lunatics that will do anything to help the program.  Finding excellent doctors who are willing to stand up to ethics challenges for the team is probably difficult to do.

It's all John Navarre's fault.

 

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September 24th, 2010 at 5:56 PM | Dr. James Andrews (Score:1)
This is Michigan
Joined: 08/02/2010
MGoPoints: 1220

Dr. James Andrews

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September 24th, 2010 at 4:03 PM | How does the saying go? (Score:1)
medals
medals's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 345

If you aren't calling injured athletes into your automatic-door closing/intimidating office and asking said injured player "what do you want to do besides playing football", you aren't trying.

Proud member of the 6/30/2008 circle of trust.

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September 24th, 2010 at 4:04 PM | Damn straight. I LIVE by that (Score:1)
Mustachioed Gen...
Mustachioed Gentleman's picture
Joined: 05/25/2009
MGoPoints: 2747

Damn straight. I LIVE by that saying. Well, that and everybody wang chung tonight.

 

Does it tickle? Only slightly, only slightly.

I upvote any post by BlockM. And Magnus.

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:49 PM | If he weren't winning (Score:1)
RadioSimon1983
Joined: 11/11/2009
MGoPoints: 550

The NCAA would have stopped this immediately.  But because he's competing for the title in the "nation's best conference" the NCAA is fine with looking the other way.  But come an 8-4 season... "Mr. Saban, knock that off!"

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September 24th, 2010 at 4:04 PM | I hope you are kidding (Score:1)
RayIsaac91
Joined: 06/25/2009
MGoPoints: -449

I hope you are kidding. Alabama has been on probation numerous times.  The recent findings at USC also go against this theory.

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:52 PM | This seems like cheating to me... (Score:1)
mr. arbor
mr. arbor's picture
Joined: 10/08/2009
MGoPoints: 34

whats to say that if a kid on scholarship is underperforming... he wont break their knees and sign them to one of these puppies.

 

Slipper slope my friends.

And he said unto Joseph, thou shalt name thy son maize and thy daughter blue.

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:52 PM | Doug Walker, Alabama's (Score:1)
Filthy Dilithium
Filthy Dilithium's picture
Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 261

Doug Walker, Alabama's associate athletic director for media relations also tries to pawn these "medical scholarships" off as doing the right thing for the kids.  Not sure how Doug is able to hide his horns.

"There is not a scale available with which I can accurately measure how much I want you to shut the fuck up right now."

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September 24th, 2010 at 9:38 PM | Well, compared to cutting them, it is. (Score:1)
SpartanDan
Joined: 08/20/2008
MGoPoints: 598

But compared to, you know, running a team the honest way ... not so much.

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:55 PM | Listen, we need to not (Score:1)
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 12591

Listen, we need to not condemn Saban but praise him for protecting these obviously-injured young men from excessive practice time and the inevitable physical dangers this poses to their development both as football players as well as human beings.  Only two more divine acts before there will be a new St. Nick on the block.

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September 24th, 2010 at 3:56 PM | the medical hardship is much (Score:1)
mjv
mjv's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 364

the medical hardship is much less offensive than just running the kid off.  At least the hardships still get to keep their scholarships.  The ones that just get told to go elsewhere. or pushed out due to a small brush with the law or struggling in school are the ones that are troubling as they lose their scholarships.  

Cut the judgement out of the equation.  X number of scholarships.  Each given away for a minimum of 4 years.  keep your players healthy, in school and out of jail.

Go Blue!! Viva La Revolucion!!
www.wolverineliberationarmy.com

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September 24th, 2010 at 4:16 PM | I think the offensiveness of (Score:1)
wile_e8
wile_e8's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2505

I think the offensiveness of Saban's actions pretty much fits the same format as the desirability of the neutral site game in Dallas:

  • Home and home vs. Alabama > Playing Alabama in Dallas >>>>>> Home games vs. the MAC
  • Kicking players off the team to make room for new recruits > Putting players on medical scholarships to make room for new recruits >>>>>> Not recruiting more players than open scholarships available
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