If the move to the 3-3-5 "stack" defense is, indeed, permanent, what do you think this does in regards to our recruiting? How do you think this will affect our D-line recruits like Roh, Jones, LaLota and Will Campbell?
I was lukewarm about the Rich Rod hire in the beginning. I'm now officially skeptical that this isn't going to turn into a big mistake by Martin.....
jay, you are constantly one
Rich Rod will be
Rich Rod will be fine......we've been in every stinking game this year, we just can't make the plays when the game is on the line. When we have a mobile QB (think Chase Daniel or Colt McCoy) who can run this team things will click. Remember we have Top 10 recruiting classes every years so it's not like we have a lack of talent. We just need the right talent for the scheme Rich Rod wants to run.
Now regarding Schafer, he needs to go. Now.
M GO Blue!
But back to basics.....
Tackling requires wrapping a player up, not lowering the shoulder trying to get a hard hit. We miss way too many tackles, the defense should apologize to the O who did their job today.
On a side note, get Odoms some stickum! Yeah he had a punt return for TD but he also cost us a TD with the fumble and lost the handle another time.
Did any one listen on the Radio
On the radio broadcast they said all the assistant coaches where shocked when RichRod walked into the meeting Monday morning and said they were going to the stack. It is the defense he ran at WV, not something Shafer has ever done. I think RichRod made the decision. They also said one reason it was done to was keep the linebackers from being matched up with RBs on pass coverage. I also noticed on tv they said on one play Donavon Warren was the last guy there to make a TD preventing tackle because they were running the stack. Think not having Stevie Brown there all the time might have been a factor too.
WTF do you expect out of these guys?
Most of these guys are from the over-rated defense that got beat by Appalachian State last year, the left over players from the "feel good" era of Coach Carr. You can argue defensive formations all you want, but you can't coach desire. A few defensive players show up every week but most of these guys are still waiting for Coach Carr to show up with his Saturday picnic basket. ,
Essentially this same
Essentially this same defense (minus Adams, Englemon, and Crable) was able to do a decent job against Illinois, MSU, Penn State, MAC schools, etc last year. Losing three starters is not going to make your defense one of the worst in the country.
This isn't the personel, it's the coaching. Ezeh, Mouton, and Co may not be our 06 LBs, but the way some people write Shafer a free pass around here, you'd think we were starting retarded guys in wheelchairs or something.
Pet peeve - everyone keeps
Pet peeve - everyone keeps saying we returned 8 starters. Chris Graham was a starter last year, and we do not have him. We returned 7 starters. We lost both safeties and two LB's. And guess what? Our LB's and Safeties are the weak spots!
I think you are right to
I think you are right to some extent, but keep in mind that last year, Juice couldn't throw, MSU had a new coach trying to rebuild a program, PSU had Morelli at QB and Royster was a backup, and neither MAC team scored a touch down on offense against us.
The defense shouldn't be giving up 50 points per game, but just think about how bad Juice and Morelli were last year.
Most of these guys are from
Most of these guys are from the over-rated defense that got beat by Appalachian State last year, the left over players from the "feel good" era of Coach Carr.
The D that finished 8th in the country in pass efficiency defense? Last year's D started terribly, but after the first two weeks of the season, it came around and became a pretty solid unit. How it degenerated into the Big Ten's worst defense is something that some folks on the staff have to be held accountable for.
But this isn't last years
But this isn't last years D. We took big hits at safety and linebacker. Carr didn't really leave anyone to fill these positions, and we're paying for it.
At this point, it doesn't matter who your defensive staff is. The players are simply NOT executing the plays. Even schemes drawn up by God would fail if the players can't keep their assignments.
Dude, we lost one starter at
Dude, we lost one starter at LB and the two safeties. That's three players. The drop off has been way greater than it should be from losing three players. How many years in the past did Michigan lose three starters on defense? This years turnover seems to be on the smaller side. The transition from 06 to 07 was probably a tougher one personel wise, yet we managed to do okay in the end. This is coaching plain and simple.
Stop defending Scott Shafer people. He went to the same university as Jim Tressel.
We've lost 3 guys in the
We've lost 3 guys in the past, but usually we have backups. Usually, there are a few to choose from because unfortunately even 4* and 5* guys can turn out to be crappy. Unfortunately, at the positions that we lost guys (safety and linebacker), we didn't have a lot to choose from. Stevie Brown is a good example. He might be bad, and didn't live up to hype, but who else do you put in? Is this shafers fault that he doesn't have anyone else better than a pretty bad safety?
I would argue that linebacker and safety are the most important positions in football. We have a great D-line, but it is so easy to take them out of the game with a short passing game, especially since our linebackers suck. Accordinly, the defensive backs seem to be playing hesitantly becuase they know the linebackers will give up a tackle and they'll have to cover. This leaves a lot of uncertainty in the backfield, combined with bad safeties and an overrated Trent, and all the sudden the domino theory is in effect.
Shafer has his work cut out for him, but there is no justification at this point to be fired.
Again, this defense of
Again, this defense of Shafer hinges largely on the three guys we lost. What about the 8 guys who are still here?
Look, I understand Stevie Brown, Obi Ezeh, etc aren't the best in the world. But how do you use them to explain away the fucking 10 yard cushion our dbs provide off the line of scrimmage on every fucking play? How do you use them to explain away a horrible defensive scheme that leaves the same predictable holes in the secondary on third and longs?
There are basically two explanations for why our D is so terrible this year. One is that this year has been some kind of perfect storm of suckitude. That's the route you seem to be going with. So many terrible things have all happened at once that the loss of three players is too much to overcome. I'll go with the simple explanation which takes all these assumptions and theories that people seem to be throwing around out and that's that Shafer has no clue what he's doing.
1. Shawn Crable
2. Chris
1. Shawn Crable
2. Chris Graham
3. Jamar Adams
4. Bradent Englemon
One, two, three, four. 4. 4 players. 2 LB's. Two.
My bad, you're right. But
My bad, you're right. But come on, losing these 4 players shouldn't cause our defense to be so catastrophically bad.
But look at the positions
But look at the positions that we lost those players at and then look at the positions that we are having trouble with. They are the same.
I hope the 3-3-5 is only for
I hope the 3-3-5 is only for this year. No way I see both LaLota and Roh sticking around if it's here to stay.
Potential
One of those recruits was sort of a DE/DT hybrid that is well suited for a 3-3-5, where the DE's have a ton of inside run responsibility. More athletic DEs will project to OLB, where they may occupy a role closer to standing rush end than traditional linebacker. Martin will make a hell of a NG in that scheme, too.
Much like the offense, the personell doesn't really match the scheme yet. That's not to say there is anything wrong with the 3-3-5. I'm a little puzzled why one would bring in Schafer only to tell him he can't run what he wants (Tony Franklin ring any bells?)
Does the 3-3-5 not use
Does the 3-3-5 not use defensive ends? Am I missing something?
Yeah..don't know what I was
Yeah..don't know what I was thinking.
Okay, even better, no way we can hold onto both Campbell and Jones!
Michigan's Defense was gone after the 2006
season. Michigan's Defense lost Alan Branch, Lamar Woodley, Rondell biggs, Leon Hall, Prescott Burgess,Willis Barringer, Shawn Crable and David Harris. In my opinion, the reason that this defense did as well as they did last year was that Michigan's Offense could move the ball. This kept the defense off the field and kept this secondary from being exposed. Michigan's Defensive line has played very well and the linebackers for the most part seem to stop the run well enough. But, put the LB on a reciever and the demise begins. Michigan's Defensive Secondary is so over-rated and outside of the play of Cissoko, they show no desire to be on the field.
Crable was on the 2007 team.
Crable was on the 2007 team.
This season has been the perfect shit storm
(that should probably be the title to a diary or book or something).
Last year the defense was lousy, gave up the 2nd most points (1 point short of 2004) in Michigan history, but was bailed out by an NFL laden offense. Guys who couldn't beat out Johnny Sears and Chris "the worse linebacker ever" Graham are starting this year.
Massive graduation on offense. Mass defection, including the only viable QB we had.
New coaches, new offensive system, new defensive system, poor fundementals carried over from the past bunch of years.
Totally green OL, QB, WR's (for the most part) and RB (McGuffie) that not only have no chance winning the time-of-possession battle, but are prone to turn the ball over. This puts an enorous amount of added pressure on an ill-equiped defense.
I think that what we are witnessing is not Scott Shafer's incompetence, but a disillusionment of the what was really left over from the Carr era.
The indications (which I was blissfully ignorant) of this shit storm were there last year, starting with the Appalachian State game, and continued on through the total domination of by Wisconsin and OSU. This was all masked over by the euphoria of the Florida bowl win, due much in part by a healthy Henne and potent offense - ALL of which is gone.
Last year the defense was
Last year the defense was lousy, gave up the 2nd most points (1 point short of 2004) in Michigan history, but was bailed out by an NFL laden offense.
Don't look at total points surrendered. The 13-game schedule has only been in place for a couple of years, so that skews the data. Last year's D gave up 21.4 points per game, which is respectable for a young unit that faced a pretty difficult schedule. Several of Carr's teams surrendered more ppg, as did Gary Moeller's final team.
This year, with far more experience than we had a year ago, we are surrendering 30.9 ppg, by far the worst in school history. And even that hideous average is kept down by our two MAC opponents. Take them away and everyone else is scoring 37 ppg against us. You cannot tell me that you "saw this coming." We have the Big Ten's worst defense right now. I don't remember anyone stating before the year that the D would be anything but a strength.
Are you really going to argue that the loss of Crable, Englemon and Adams was THIS crippling that it outweighed the gains that should have been made from having everyone else back a year older?
But last year's defense has last year's offense
This year's defense has this year's offense, which has put them back on the field time and again with turnovers and 3-and-outs. I think that this is the most significant result in year's defense results and last year's.
The opponent difference - 2 MAC teams versus last years D1A team, an awful ND team and EMU - is at best a wash.
And yes, I do think that the loss of Englemon and Adams has had an detrimental effect on the defense. It appears to me that the CB's and LB's do not trust the safety play and end up cheating back, for fear that the receiver going by will not be picked up. This opened up all of the short and intermediate routes.
3rd down
I think the defense's inability to get off the field after a 3rd and long is hurting them MUCH more than three and outs.
Brady...Hoooooooke!
I yield to Squid-Crable was on the 07 defense
but you get the point-with time, Michigan will get it worked out. I still see the OSU game as a statement game for this team.
The people we lost from last year's defense
also happened to be the #1-4 top tacklers on the team.....
Will Rich Rod allow for the
Will Rich Rod allow for the 3-3-5 to continue after giving up almost 50 pts? I don't think he seemed to happy with it in his post-game press conference. Expect to see that formation back in situational uses only.
jay, you are constantly one of the most pessimistic people here. but anyway i have a hard time putting the blame on richrod for this one. i mean, he really doesn't have much input on the defense. if you're looking for someone to blame, look at the defense, shahfer, and all of the position coaches on the D. that was a monumental fuck-up today.
before the game i thought if we put up 30 points, let alone 40+ we'd get the win. i don't know how the hell we let them score so much. how do we go from playing the defense we did against Wisco to this?
i only respect other superfans