Home
we had subs it was crazy

Primary links

  • About
    • $upport (lol)
    • Ethics
    • FAQ
    • Privacy Policy
  • Contact
  • MGoStore
  • MGoBoard
    • MGoBoard FAQ
    • Ticket spreadsheet
    • Michigan bar locator
    • Moderator Action Sticky
  • Useful Stuff
    • 2014 Recruiting Board, Offense
    • Depth Chart By Class
    • Unofficial Two Deep
    • Diaries, Windows Live Writer, And You
    • Michigan Future Schedules
    • User-Curated HOF
    • Where To Eat In Ann Arbor
Home

Navigation

  • Forums
  • Recent posts

User login

  • Create new account
  • Request new password

MGoElsewhere

  • @MGoBlog (Brian)
  • @aceanbender
  • @TomVH (Tom)
  • RSS Feed
  • iPhone App
  • Facebook profile
  • MGoKindle Store
  • mgo.licio.us
  • Brian @ TSB [Archive]
  • Brian @ AOL [Archive]
  • Sour Salty Bitter Sweet

Michigan Blogs

  • Big House Blog
  • Burgeoning Wolverine Star
  • Genuinely Sarcastic
  • Go Blue Michigan Wolverine
  • Holdin' The Rope
  • MGoFootball
  • MVictors
  • Maize 'n' Blue Nation
  • Maize 'n' Brew
  • Maize And Go Blue
  • Michigan Hockey Net
  • The Blog That Yost Built
  • The Hoover Street Rag
  • The M Block
  • The M Zone
  • The Wolverine Blog
  • Touch The Banner
  • UMGoBlog
  • UMHoops
  • UMTailgate
  • Wolverine Liberation Army

M On The Net

  • mgovideo
  • MGoBlue.com
  • Mike DeSimone
  • Recruiting Planet
  • The Wolverine
  • Go Blue Wolverine
  • Winged Helmet
  • UMGoBlue.com
  • MaizeRage.org
  • Puckhead
  • The M Den
  • True Blue Fan Forum

Big Ten Blogs

  • Illinois
    • A Lion Eye
    • Hail To The Orange
    • Illinois Baseball Report
    • Illinois Loyalty
  • Indiana
    • Inside The Hall
    • The Crimson Quarry
  • Iowa
    • Black Heart, Gold Pants
    • Fight For Iowa
  • Michigan State
    • The Only Colors
  • Minnesota
    • GopherHole.com
    • The Daily Gopher
    • I'm In Love With A Fringe Bowl Team
    • TNABACG
  • Nebraska
    • Big Red Network
    • Corn Nation
    • Husker Mike's Blasphemy
    • Husker Gameday
  • Northwestern
    • Sippin' On Purple
    • Lake The Posts
  • Notre Dame
    • The House Rock Built
    • One Foot Down
  • Ohio State
    • Eleven Warriors
    • Buckeye Commentary
    • Men of the Scarlet and Gray
    • Our Honor Defend
    • The Buckeye Nine
  • Penn State
    • Slow States
    • Black Shoe Diaries
    • Happy Valley Hardball
    • Penn State Clips
    • Linebacker U
    • Nittany White Out
  • Purdue
    • Boiled Sports
    • Hammer and Rails
  • Wisconsin
    • Bruce Ciskie

Links of Note

  • Baseball
    • Big Ten Hardball
    • College Baseball Today
    • The Baseball Zealot
    • The College Baseball Blog
  • Basketball
    • Ken Pomeroy
    • Basketball Prospectus
    • Midmajority
  • College Hockey
    • Chris Heisenberg
    • College Hockey Stats
    • Inside College Hockey
    • Michigan College Hockey
    • Hockey's Future
    • Sioux Sports
    • USCHO
    • Western College Hockey
    • CCHA
      • LSSU Hockey
      • Bronco Hockey Blog
  • Football
    • Smart Football
    • Every Day Should Be Saturday
    • Doctor Saturday
    • CFB Stats
    • Harold Stassen
    • NCAA D-I Stats Page
    • The Wizard Of Odds
  • General
    • Sports Central
  • Local Interest
    • The Ann Arbor Chronicle
    • Arborwiki
    • Arbor Update
    • Teeter Talk
    • Vacuum
  • Teams Of The D
    • Lions
      • Pride of Detroit
      • Fire Millen
    • Pistons
      • Detroit Bad Boys
      • Need4Sheed
    • Tigers
      • Roar Of The Tigers
      • The Detroit Tigers Weblog
      • The Daily Fungo
    • Red Wings
      • On The Wings
      • Behind The Jersey
      • Winging It In Motown
    • Michigan Sports Forum

Get Yer Tickets

Football Display Case

NFL Watches

Follow your favorite team with localtv-satellite.com: Click Here.

Site Search

Diaries

  • New
  • Popular
  • Hot
  • Notes on 2013 B1G and Other QBs
    MCalibur - 2 hours ago
  • Who is Al Borges? (Part IV - A NEW HOKE)
    Ron Utah - 1 day ago
  • APR And Big Ten Football: A High-Level Summary
    LSAClassOf2000 - 1 day ago
  • On Endowment, Financial Aid, and Perceived Prestige
    maizeonblueaction - 2 days ago
  • The Blockhams in "SPARTYCAN'T"
    Six Zero - 6 days ago
  •  
  • 1 of 5
  • ››
more
  • Who is Al Borges? (Part II - THE MISTAKE)
    Ron Utah - 1,490 views
  • Who is Al Borges? (Part I)
    Ron Utah - 1,076 views
  • Devin and the White Rainbow
    MCalibur - 1,074 views
  • The Blockhams in "SPARTYCAN'T"
    Six Zero - 1,035 views
  • Who is Al Borges? (Part III - HOKE IS A STRATEGY)
    Ron Utah - 874 views
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more
  • Who is Al Borges? (Part II - THE MISTAKE)
    Ron Utah - 52 comments
  • Who is Al Borges? (Part IV - A NEW HOKE)
    Ron Utah - 35 comments
  • On Endowment, Financial Aid, and Perceived Prestige
    maizeonblueaction - 33 comments
  • Who is Al Borges? (Part III - HOKE IS A STRATEGY)
    Ron Utah - 17 comments
  • Big Ten Recruiting Rankings 6-18-13
    Ace - 10 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more

MGoBoard

  • New
  • Recent
  • Hot
  • Women's Hoops Hello: Akienreh Johnson (#34, 2016 class)
    3 replies
  • OT: Kentucky Football Pulling It Together
    33 replies
  • Hello: Garrett Moores (2013 Catholic Central walkon QB)
    29 replies
  • MLIVE per ESPN: Derrick Green "Future Star"
    45 replies
  • OT: Plans Unveiled for Wings New Arena
    86 replies
  • OT - US soccer players who play for foreign countries
    34 replies
  • OT: GIF Tourney IV
    25 replies
  • CIC to Consider Starting Own Coursera-like System, BTN-style
    13 replies
  • MgoUser Crystal Ball Picks
    55 replies
  • NCAA 14 Demo: Early Returns & Gripes
    53 replies
  • Alabama prompts water feature war
    13 replies
  • Brian to speak in Chicago - AAUM Chicago
    42 replies
  • Additional endzone tickets are available
    40 replies
  • OT: How well do you know MLB rules (Quiz)?
    66 replies
  • OT: NBA Finals Game 6 overtime open thread
    112 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 8
  • ››
  • Alabama prompts water feature war
    13 replies
  • OT - US soccer players who play for foreign countries
    34 replies
  • MLIVE per ESPN: Derrick Green "Future Star"
    45 replies
  • OT: GIF Tourney IV
    25 replies
  • OT: Kentucky Football Pulling It Together
    33 replies
  • NCAA 14 Demo: Early Returns & Gripes
    53 replies
  • MgoUser Crystal Ball Picks
    55 replies
  • Hello: Garrett Moores (2013 Catholic Central walkon QB)
    29 replies
  • Women's Hoops Hello: Akienreh Johnson (#34, 2016 class)
    3 replies
  • OT: Plans Unveiled for Wings New Arena
    86 replies
  • OT: How well do you know MLB rules (Quiz)?
    66 replies
  • Additional endzone tickets are available
    40 replies
  • Brian to speak in Chicago - AAUM Chicago
    42 replies
  • CIC to Consider Starting Own Coursera-like System, BTN-style
    13 replies
  • MGoProfile to Return This Week
    77 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 8
  • ››
  • Coolest/favorite Michigan thing you own?
    142 replies
  • Urban Meyer and Charlie Strong's "Core Values"
    132 replies
  • OT: Man Of Steel. Wow
    129 replies
  • OT: City of Detroit Epic Comeback? (Business Insider)
    125 replies
  • High Noon with Rich Rodriguez and the Arizona Football Staff
    123 replies
  • ND to play ASU in football series
    112 replies
  • OT: NBA Finals Game 6 overtime open thread
    112 replies
  • OT-4* recruit (non Michigan) posting really dumb things
    101 replies
  • NCAA 14 Demo thoughts; MGoBlogger PSN/Gamertag list
    97 replies
  • OT: Cool Story Bro!
    96 replies
  • MSU doesn't know who they're recruiting
    93 replies
  • 2015 OL Jon Runyan Jr. Offered - Buckle Up
    91 replies
  • OT: Plans Unveiled for Wings New Arena
    86 replies
  • MGoProfile to Return This Week
    77 replies
  • Cornwell to Bama
    76 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 8
  • ››

mgo.licio.us

  • Why some corners can't play zone coverage

    i find this extremely interesting

    0 comments
  • Brady Hoke-Urban Meyer not on the Bo Schembechler-Woody Hayes level, Hoke says, pointlessly because who would believe it was

    i may have altered the title

    0 comments
  • Police: Man arrested for masturbating while riding bike through The Diag

    i thought this was america

    0 comments
  • Miami fans leave Game 6 early, miss incredible ending

    like I said on twitter: that was almost as intense as Iowa NIT games

    1 comments
  • SF Kameron Chatman Talks UConn

    ...talks about how UConn hasn't been in contact and how they're out. (HT: UMHoops)

    0 comments
  • AIRBHG Invades Steelemas!

    wow

    0 comments
  • NBA Job Interview: Trey Burke (With Scouting Report!)

    Jalen, Burke, and Simmons.

    0 comments
  • 2013 World Dwarf Games to be held at MSU

    Mike Hart the heavy favorite in the trolling competition

    0 comments
  • NBA draft rumors: Pistons like Cody Zeller, but not Trey Burke - Detroit Bad Boys

    just what the Pistons need: a third string center. Joe Dumars was replaced by a mean ol' alien a few years back you guys.

    4 comments
  • New college grads: Don’t sell your time for a living

    this would be a close approximation of hypothetical graduation speech

    9 comments
  • College World Series Misspells "College" On Dugout

    no you guys they're just super pumped about COLLLLLLLLLLLLEGE

    0 comments
  • Michigan no longer looking for a transfer quarterback, Brady Hoke says

    not a surprise

    0 comments
  • Babcock: 'Glendening will play at the next level, for sure''

    premature congrats. One thing we can be sure of: he'll take fewer asinine penalties than Abdelkader

    1 comments
  • Spurrier may have to come up with a new UT spelling joke.

    Thanks to ugly transitions between Fulmer/Kiffin/Dooley/Davis, Tennessee is on the edge of APR penalties for football.

    1 comments
  • Report: NCAA ditching domes prior to Final Four

    i approve of this message

    0 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more

3-3-5 defense

Stack To The Future

By Brian — March 24th, 2010 at 12:53 PM — 69 comments
Filed under:
  • 3-3-5 defense
  • i sure hope this works
  • spring practice

Earlier in the year I took a cue from Michigan's odd announcement of Adam Braithwaite as an OLB/safeties coach to theorize that Michigan was adopting something half 3-3-5 stack, half 4-3. You can put whatever label you want on it, but it's apparently similar to what Virginia Tech runs. After yesterday's press conference, though, the prevailing opinion is that Michigan's defense is going to be half 3-3-5, half 3-3-5. This, for the Ohio State fans stopping by, is 100% 3-3-5.

Wha? Aigh! Justin Siller! No—

Keep_Calm_And_Carry_On_by_typoholicsRight.

Evidence for the switch is plentiful. In this episode of "Inside Michigan Football," Troy Woolfolk talks about "the new defense":

In yesterday's press conference the players all made references to the 3-3-5. The usual array of practice reports coming from shadowy trenchcoated internet folk all say that not only is Michigan running the 3-3-5 in practice, that's all they're running. This is no longer in the realm of rumor.

Is it in the realm of sense? I don't know. The major reasons I and other tea leaf readers were banking on an aggressive 4-2-5 were threefold: it's basically what Michigan was trying to run most of last year, available bodies on the defensive line point towards an undershifted four-man front, and Michigan's latest recruiting class features a zillion guys who were told they would be "quick" ends a la Roh.

The 3-3-5 as a base set obliterates the quick. Michigan cobbles theirs together by dropping Roh back to one of the outside linebacker spots. The defensive end spot not occupied by Ryan Van Bergen is now going to be a Banks/Patterson platoon or a 294-pound Mike Martin. Since 3-3-5 defensive ends are not lumbering quasi-DTs like 3-4 defensive ends (more about this later), Martin seems like a questionable fit at end; the alternative is platooning Martin and Campbell, two of the most physically dominant players on the team.

The Unresolved Questions

Is this an alternate look or a base set? If it's a base set, how often will they deploy a four-man front?

Early indications are that Michigan will use it as a base set. One theory out there is that Michigan is running the 3-3-5 to the exclusion of other defenses because Mike Martin is out for spring. I don't think that makes sense. A team that spends all its time learning one set of responsibilities because one player is out for spring practice only to switch to a considerably different set in fall is a team that is going to get its coach fired at the end of the year. Teams don't devote the entirety of spring practice to a "new defense" that is then a changeup when the season comes.

Michigan used the 3-3-5 from time to time last year, most prominently in the Ohio State game when it was an effective base set that shut down Ohio State's I-formation running:

This is actually more of a 5-3 since the DEs are lined up over the guards and the box safeties are rolled up tight to the line of scrimmage, FWIW, but that's a matter of alignment against a run-heavy team. Note that Roh is an outside linebacker here.

This forced OSU into some bunch formations that forced Michigan out of the stack; OSU also attacked it by running single-back formations that are inherently strong against single deep safety defenses because of old-timey football wonk stuff. Buckeye Football Analysis has a deeper analysis if you're in the mood.

When OSU went unbalanced, Michigan responded by putting Roh's hand down and going back to their usual undershifted four-man line. For Michigan the personnel will be exactly the same, allowing them to shift between fronts at will. So if the 3-3-5 isn't working in a particular game or just turns out to be a bad idea, they aren't totally screwed.

They would be at least partially screwed, however, since they're piling more and more on the plates of linebackers who spent a lot of time last year wondering what to do (or decisively doing the wrong thing). The way West Virginia ran a 3-3-5 allows linebackers to be blitzing players who have to do a minimal amount of reading, but if it doesn't work then all that time will be time that could have spent fixing what ails Ezeh and Mouton in a 4-2-5.

I'm not thrilled that Michigan seems to be changing its defense again, especially since I've been pitching defensive coordinator continuity as a major reason Michigan's defense will improve in 2010, but given what they ran most of last year the only players who will be making major changes are the linebackers. In the West Virginia version of the 3-3-5, defensive ends are basically the same as they are in a 4-3. The nose tackle is more of a two-gap player if you can make him one, but that's not something that requires a lot of reading. So… yeah. Maybe it will work.

  • 69 comments

Eight Man Fronts In The Forecast

By Brian — February 12th, 2010 at 12:16 PM — 77 comments
Filed under:
  • 3-3-5 defense
  • 4-4 under
  • defensive schemes
  • eight man front
  • greg robinson
  • special teams
  • wonkery

I bolded this in the announcement about Adam Braithwaite's hire but failed to grasp its oddness and potential significance:

University of Michigan football coach Rich Rodriguez announced Thursday (Feb. 11) the hiring of Adam Braithwaite as the program’s safeties/outside linebackers coach. … Assistant head coach Tony Gibson will coach the cornerbacks and free safety position.

 Your response in the form of a cat—which they should totally do on Jeopardy, BTW:

Dude wait what

Braithwaite now coaches the safeties and the outside linebackers. Greg Robinson now coaches the inside linebackers, emphasis on the plural. Tony Gibson now coaches the cornerback and… uh… one safety position. What sense does it make? It makes none. It makes less sense if you believe the premium moderator folk who have been asserting that Michigan is in the odd habit of calling its deep safety "strong" and the guy who rolls up to the line of scrimmage on occasion "free."

So what the hell is going on here? First: however deeply screwed up Michigan's internal lingo about safeties is, my assumption is that the free safety is your deep-zone ballhawk and the strong safety is the guy who rolls up to the line as a semi-linebacker. It would be totally insane to give Gibson the guy at the line and some cornerbacks and Braithwaite one guy at the line and one guy in a deep zone. (Wags may joke here about Rodriguez's previous defensive hires. Take my defensive coordinator… please!)

So that means Gibson is the secondary coach and he is a man in charge of three people. Meanwhile, the outside linebackers coach has a safety or two. Hmm…

zonepresnap

Now, I know what you're thinking: ack Donovan Warren is about to get an eight-yard screen in his grill. Or ack Andrew Quarless is about to run straight downfield untouched for a 60-yard touchdown. Or ack… well, we were all around last year. The walls have dents to prove it.  The only thing you're not ack-ing is the defensive line. This is a digression.

The particulars of Braithwaite's hire indicate the eight-man front Michigan ran much the second half of last year was not an immensely unsuccessful attempt at emergency triage on a walk-on-laden matador defense but rather the intended base defense going forward. With so many bodies ticketed for Craig Roh's "quick" position, I don't think this presages a move to a straight 3-3-5 like West Virginia ran. The 4-4-ish set above is likely to be Michigan's most frequent alignment, with quick-as-linebacker sprinkled in as a changeup.

It's half 3-3-5, though. Aside from the disposition of the line and the middle linebackers, that's what it is. The secondary aligns like it's a 3-3-5. The "spinner," while technically a linebacker, was safety Stevie Brown last year and will be either Josh Furman, Mike Jones, Isaiah Bell—though he may have moved inside—or Brandin Hawthorne this year. All of the candidates were high school safeties tagged as tweeners except Hawthorne, who was a safety-sized defensive end. Last year the strong safety was Jordan Kovacs (tweener safety), Mike Williams (just a safety), or Brandon Smith (tweener safety), but this year it's likely to be Marvin Robinson, Carvin Johnson or Vlad Emilien: more high school safeties tagged as tweeners. The distinction between the OLB and safety is also in keeping with 3-3-5 principles: most teams have wacky names for the strongside (spur, spinner, ferret) and weakside safety types (hero, bandit, saber-toothed dragon) because they have different roles. As Jeff Casteel explained so elegantly on the incredibly expensive and totally useless (at the time) 3-3-5 DVD I bought, the weakside guy "gets his meat cooked"—does not have to deal with lead blockers—and the strongside guy "gets his meat raw"—oh God, that's Owen Schmitt and I weigh 210 pounds.

If I'm right, this is one hell of a bold experiment for Rodriguez. His ass is in the wind right now and last year's attempt to implement this was a flaming wreck unprecedented in the modern history of Michigan football. I'm not a coach but I do watch unhealthy amounts of college football and I don't think I've ever seen anyone try this 4-2-2-3 style of D—please correct me if this is not the case. It's a gamble.

[Update: Corrected. Virginia Tech does this plenty. Tyler Sellhorn:

Dear Brian,

Please don't freak out about the defensive changes.  Mostly it seems like a move to VaTech's defense.  The high school where I coach plays a very similar scheme to VaTech (visited Blacksburg twice to commune with Bud Foster and his staff) and has a similar scheme to what you are suggesting M is declaring. 

I think the best terminology for the setup is the 4-2-5 is "multiple" meaning that most of the defensive calls are intended to trick the opposing QB/coaches at the snap.  The OLBs are really more like SSs and rotate up and back based on d-call and opposition formation/personnel, and the "FS" is nearly an identical player who can roll down to play the OLB spot as well based on motion/personnel.  Up front, lots of stunting (lining up in one gap, crossing into another), lots of gap exchanges, lots of rolling coverages where the OLB/SSs will drop into deep coverage.  The scheme is sound.  Maybe you should do your HTTV tape study this summer on 4-2-5/VaTech stuff?

The biggest reason teams use the scheme? OLB/SS away from two-reciever side/strong side plays tight behind backside ILB so that he can flow hard to action away, OLB/SS has what you have called the scrape exchange.

Two notes: "flowing hard to action ", whether it was away or not, is definitely what Michigan was doing with Jordan Kovacs when he was the box safety and Woolfolk was deep, and who was the other team hard after Josh Furman? Virginia Tech.]

On the other hand, going from year one in a system to year two will be a rare privilege for these Michigan defenders—it will be the first time in anyone's career other than fifth-year seniors this is the case—and I'm heartened that amongst the flaming wreck at the end of last year there was a semblance of a long-term plan. By God, they were terrible, but they were terrible with purpose. This passes as optimism for the 2010 Michigan fan.

Anyway, we'll find out in spring if my speculation here is correct. I think they've tipped their hand. I have no idea how it's going to work out but at least they're sticking to one thing for the first time ever-ever.

Side note on Gibson-related special teams bitchin'. I've seen or heard a lot of this over the past couple weeks, and have to provide a "dude wait what" to that, too. Michigan's coming off a year in which they finished third in net punting, 23rd in kickoff returns, 62nd in punt returns, and was 11 of 15 on field goals. Taken together, the metrics indicate one of the best units in the conference, if not the country. Critics are likely thinking of Michigan's persistent inability to field a punt in the Rodriguez era, Zoltan Mesko going blue screen of death on his rollout option punt against Michigan State, and a couple roughing the kicker penalties.

Those things do detract, but they're offset by the kickoff coverage—I can't remember a big opposition kick return—and a few punt blocks. Special teams were the least of Michigan's problems last year. They have to replace both specialists this year so there might be a hiccup. Even so, I'm baffled by special teams criticism outside of HOLD ON TO THE DAMN BALL issues that I think are a little fluky. (Yes, even now.)

  • 77 comments
  • « first
  • ‹ previous
  • 1
  • 2
Powered by Pressflow, an open source content management system
Theme provided by Roopletheme; sidebars adapted from Chris Murphy.