Via WD, every snap of Jake Rudock vs. Michigan. It is quite unimpressive, though I remind you it was debilitatingly cold and windy for the 2013 Crimes Against Manpanda Redux game, and he was a sophomore. There were three long plays in there. The first Kevonte Martin-Manley was WIIIIIDE open and Rudock's pass floated in (against the wind) slowly and inaccurately so KMM had to step immediately out of bounds. The second his receiver made a great play while double covered. The third was the one Avery and C.Gordon botched extraordinarily. The last throw on there was his best.
UPDATE: There's also an every pass vs Wisconsin.
To answer the guy in the thread, yes that is the game that inspired our most depressing shirt ever. My original shirt idea in the discussion that became that shirt was "Fuck it man, let's go bowling".
Transfers are Only Rare in Peace Time. As I partially experienced when they tried to tell me regular courses at La Sorbonne weren't French enough to count as foreign language*, transferring credits to Michigan is a bitch.
|Transfer to Michigan for Victory! We're for winning the war too!|
Local community colleges like WCC or OCC have transferred often enough that they've smoothed this over, but random Division I schools are at best a crap shoot, and JCs for guys Saban couldn't get through Alabama admissions are right out.
For that reason more than its coaches' tastes (Rodriguez and Hoke both recruited plenty of JuCos before coming here), Michigan has taken extraordinarily few transfers over the years.
With five (Isaac, Lyons, O'Korn, Rudock, O'Neill) projected to be at Michigan this fall, Wolverine Devotee tracked down every transfer he could.
The short transfer list underscores the difficulty with admissions. In the last 30 years the only Michigan transfers not from like academic institutions (Stanford, USC, Georgia Tech, SDSU and Notre Dame), were freshmen from decent Ohio schools (Goodwin and Nienberg), one guy who was at Michigan previously (Evans), one guy from a local academic CC that sends a lot of students to Ann Arbor, and Russell Shaw, who is the lone exception to every conversation ever had about Michigan JCs and transfers.
It also has a bulge in the mid-1940s, when Michigan went all-in on active duty programs. Most notably the university created an intensive Japanese language school that took over East Quad, and was the wartime home of the national JAG program, which we housed in the Law Quad. Michigan gamely used these and the regular training school to siphon talent away from rivals in every sport. That's how we got Crazy Legs Hirsch out of Wisconsin, and Howard Yerges and J.T. White from Ohio State. Iowa Pre-Flight became a quasi-Big Ten team in the era by convincing stars from the region to enlist in the Air Corps.
Via the board there might be two more grad transfers en route before fall. Why is Michigan taking so many guys now (other than new coaches in non-Michigan places always bring in guys they recruited elsewhere to fill gaps?) Well one is grad transfers are a relatively recent phenomenon and are more like a normal admissions process for those schools.
For the rest, my best guess is during The Happening, Michigan had asked Harbaugh what ducks they need to be in what order, and one of his requests was admissions won't jerk him around. This happened at Stanford; in fact the school refusing to accept January enrollments cost him both RGIII and 2015 Heisman candidate Taysom Hill. This is just a wild theory, but "You could eff up our shot at Harbaugh" is probably one of the only football arguments you could ever make to admissions that they'd care about.
There is at least one transfer whom WD missed: 1997 co-captain Eric Mayes, who went to Xavier then transferred to Michigan and walked on, according to a certain co-worker of mine who's probably not ecstatic about me just pointing you to his old blogspot.
* (We acknowledge you read Voltaire in the original, but you weren't doing it to learn French!)
[Jump for Cazzie and a surprising stop in Brady Hoke's Offensive Vision Quest]
AUSSIE PUNTER ALERT [photo via Standard Examiner]
A move that's been rumored for a while is now official, as the football program announced the addition of Australian punter Blake O'Neill, a graduate transfer who played for Weber State in 2014.
"We are looking forward to having a player of Blake's level of maturity, background and skill set -- growing up playing Australian rules football -- in our program," said John Baxter, U-M's special teams coordinator. "Australian players have made a big impact on college football in the kicking game, like last year's Ray Guy Award winner, Tom Hackett from Utah. We are looking forward to the impact that Blake will have on our team and within our conference."
O'Neill finished sixth nationally (Football Championship Subdivision) in punting during the 2014 season at Weber State. He played in all 12 games and averaged 44.1 yards per punt, setting a single-season punting average record for the Wildcats.
O'Neill tallied 62 punts for 2,737 yards with a long of 74 yards. He boomed 18 punts of 50-plus yards and notched 25 boots inside the opposition's 20-yard line. O'Neill ran for a first down on a fake punt and tossed a completion for a first down on another fake.
O'Neill didn't play American football until 2014; prior to that he played Aussie Rules Football. First year or not, he put up some really impressive numbers.
Are you ready for some punting highlights? Because we've got punting highlights. (Also fake punting highlights, which is a very exciting development.)
O'Neill displays all the skills you'd ask for in a punter; he's got the Aussie-style directional/backspin kick down, he booms traditional punts, and he can pull off a fake. Most important of all, he's Australian, so we can only hope he can replicate the Brad Wing experience minus the totally BS celebration penalty.
We don't know the current pecking order at punter since Michigan didn't punt during the spring game, but I don't think O'Neill transferred here to sit on the bench; he's the new favorite to take over the starting job, with Kenny Allen representing his chief competition.
Recruiting rankings and outperformance
Good afternoon –
Beilein has developed a reputation for being a stellar recruiter. He is now known for uncovering basketball players who were either lightly regarded, lightly recruited, unknown, or young, so that they grew and developed significantly after he recruited them. (Burke, Rahkman, Dawkins, Albrecht, LeVert, and now Moritz Wagner all fall into this category.) I will be interested to see how Harbaugh and his staff correlate to Beilein in this regard. In one sense, every fan wants every recruit who comes in to be a 4 or 5 star rated recruit. But the reality is that the coaches sometimes see things that the rating experts missed. This has been an on-going discussion: how much do stars matter? I think the correlation of Wagner and Kingston Davis committing today brought this topic to my mind.
So, my questions and requests for you:
1) I’d love to see a table showing recruiting ranking vs. actual performance. Who ends up bring in recruits who significantly outperform their ranking, who brings in recruits who perform the way expected, and who brings in recruits who underperform, relative to how they were ranked.
This is too hard to do for basketball since there are very small and wildly varying recruiting classes. Last year Michigan brought in six players; this year it looks like it will be just one. A couple years ago Ohio State's recruiting class was… nobody. The attrition rates are wildly different so recruiting rankings, which always favor volume, are going to be skewed. You can point to anecdotes like Beilein turning fringe top 100 recruits into lottery picks on the regular; I don't think it's possible to do anything systematic with the numbers.
Football does give you a reasonable baseline to work with and this has been done by Ross Benes at Deadspin. You will be unsurprised to find Michigan where it is in a study that covers 2009 to 2013:
I am a bit skeptical about the methodology here, as it doesn't seem to account for the fact that there's nowhere to go but down for the teams at the top of the rankings. (It also doesn't take last year into account, which is why Michigan State isn't in the Wisconsin zone.) But it's still good for comparing you to your peers and the result is undeniable: amongst teams that recruit like Michigan, only Tennessee and maybe UCLA perform worse; Miami is on par.
2) The followup question would be to assess how much of this is attributable to a recruit being ranked accurately and appropriately, and much is attributable to the recruit’s development in college. The knock on Hoke wasn’t recruiting: it was the belief that he didn’t develop players to perform to the best of their capability.
Thanks, best regards, and enjoy the balance of the Spring.
No doubt it is some of both. Recruiting rankings are necessarily ignorant of a number of things that will influence the development of the player—ACL stability for one. But it's clear that some guys are awesome teachers able to improve players and others are guys who clap and shout "let's go." It's nice to see Stanford on the right side of this ledger even after Harbaugh's departure since many of those coaches were his, and he set up the culture that lifted them from the bottom.
I think that perhaps I don't understand what goes into the APR and was hoping you could help me understand. I thought (although it appears incorrectly) that APR measured the percent of a school's players with remaining eligibility that return to school, maintain that eligibility academically, and/or graduate. With 7 Kentucky players declaring for the draft (following several years of many more declaring), it would appear that Kentucky couldn't possibly evade APR penalties because legions of eligible players have not and will not be returning to school. Is there an exception for going pro that I'm unaware of? Is Kentucky's APR really only measured by whether their mop up players stay eligible and graduate, without regard to the majority of the team that goes pro?
That is correct. The APR has a loophole for players who leave school early for pro sports. You don't even have to get drafted to take advantage of it—NCAA-sanctioned UConn men's basketball started digging out with a perfect score this year despite a player leaving for Europe. He signed a contract overseas and left in "good academic standing," so he doesn't hurt UConn's APR.
As a result of that loophole all Kentucky has to do is gin up some Cs for the NCAA minimum progress toward a degree and their APR is untouched. It's probably in fact easier for them to comply with APR stuff because all they have to do is get their kids to go to Easy Class 101. Few end up having to move on to We Kind Of Need You To Pay Attention Now 386.
On the one hand, you need that exception because it's not the school's fault if, say, Nik Stauskas blows up into a top ten pick and wants to go get paid millions of dollars. On the other it does enable the travelling circus that is the current one-and-done system.
Medical hardship logistics
Hey Brian --
Recently there's been significant attention paid to key questions facing Michigan basketball this offseason (Will Levert go pro? Will Jaylen Brown commit? etc.). All of the discussion seems to operate under the premise that either Austin Hatch will continue to take up one of the 13 scholarships the team has to hand out, or the team will place him under "medical hardship." I have two questions.
1) What does this medical hardship entail? Would it be 100% career-ending? Would he no longer be able to practice and play with the team?
A medical hardship allows the school to continue giving the kid a full scholarship. It would end his playing career at Michigan. He could still be affiliated with the team, could still practice (there's no regulations on who you practice with in college; womens' teams will often go up against guys). He could not get in the game. He would be a student manager, basically.
Michigan might be able to get a waiver for senior day.
2) Why has there been no discussion of freeing up Hatch's scholarship to use on, say, Jaylen Brown or Mike Edwards, by making him a walk-on? I'm assuming there are other ways the University can make sure all his tuition bills are paid for. At the very least, paying for Hatch to go to Michigan is worthy of $200K of the millions of dollars the athletic department has gotten from Stephen Ross or Al Glick.
In other words, maybe we don't have to choose between keeping Hatch on the basketball team and bringing in another scholarship player of Jaylen Brown's caliber, should LeVert choose to come back.
Once you've been on scholarship, you count as a scholarship player even if your money supposedly comes from a source than the athletic department.
There are in fact certain things that you can do when you are just a recruit that make you count as a scholarship player, something that football teams have been dancing around of late with this "blueshirt" thing where kids arrive on campus as walk-ons. Those kids can't take officials or they end up counting against the limit of 25 signees annually.
Again, this is a situation where Michigan might be able to get a waiver since it's very high profile. Without that Michigan cannot use Hatch's scholarship without disqualifying him from playing.
Buy it and burn it.
I am so upset about this I had to share...
The above Ebay link is for a new Devin Gardner card with a sick & twisted "variation" of the winged helmet. This just is not right! I don't see how Upper Deck can get away with messing with our helmet design and printing this card.
Is that a sugar cookie made by a deranged aunt on the card? Why is anyone making a Devin Gardner rookie card and is it even slightly possible that any of the bids on this travesty are legitimate? Supposedly this card is up to 16.05 with four different bidders. This makes me want to find a WIRED article about the shady lives of professional EBay sellers or something. I have a million questions.
— A2Forever (@AnnArborRules) April 9, 2015
Gonna go with "no" on this one.
QB questions, running back non-answers. OL shuffling and WR issues. But Harbaugh?
Peppers deployment, Mo Hurst busting out, linebacker depth, secondary gents, excellent prospects. Plus a virtual punter shoutout.
GIMMICKY TOP FIVE
Stock up and stock down gents from the spring game.
"Across 110th Street"
"Fantastic Voyage," Coolio
"Personal Jesus," Johnny Cash
THE USUAL LINKS
Three's A Crowd?
Newest commit Matt Falcon has a ton of upside. [Nasternak]
Michigan's 2016 class went from two to six commits in less than a week, capped by four-star Southfield RB Matt Falcon's pledge last night. Tyrone Wheatley is proving to be a very impactful recruiter, as expected; he was the primary recruiter for Falcon, Kingston Davis, and David Reese. Falcon, who played youth football with the Washtenaw Wolverines, told Scout's Allen Trieu he's "been a Wolverine my whole life," and discussed Wheatley's role in his decision ($):
You mentioned Coach Wheatley, he's going to be your position coach. What made you feel like he was the right one to guide you for the next few years?
We could talk everything besides football. We would talk on the phone for a long time. He's known about me since 8th grade and he's been there for me. He's been loyal, and I trust him and wanted to come play for him.
You have some guys that you know, in-state guys, guys from your conference that are considering Michigan. Are you going to be a recruiter now?
Yeah, I'm trying to get everybody down to Michigan. Michigan is where it's at, so I'll talk to all of them and see where their minds are at.
With the recent wave of commits, Michigan moved up 25 spots to #20 overall on the 247 Composite team rankings. The Wolverines should be set at running back with Davis and Falcon, and Sam Webb mentioned on The Victors Board($) that's the case—unless four-star NC RB Robert Washington wants to join the class. Washington is set to announce his decision on April 25th, and prior to Falcon's commitment he told GBW's Josh Newkirk that Michigan was very much in the mix ($):
"They really want me, I'm their guy," Washington said. "Coach Wheatley is saying he would 'love' to coach me. He's been wanting to coach for me a long time. And Coach Harbaugh said I'm a 'special' player for him. So that was their message to me.
"My next step after I talked with Coach Harbaugh was he told me to put [Michigan] in my top-six. Michigan is a big school for me. I have always favored Michigan. So it's a big school for me, it's a no brainer to put Michigan in my top six."
The rest of Washington's top six is Alabama, Florida, North Carolina, Syracuse, and TCU. We'll see if Falcon's decision impacts Washington's thoughts on Michigan; if it doesn't, the backfield could get quite crowded.
In other commitment-related news, four-star IN QB Brandon Peters will enroll early at Michigan, per 247's Steve Wiltfong.
[Hit THE JUMP for the rest of the roundup.]
What is this? Folks who cover the USMNT drop lists like this projecting the 23 guys who end up on the next World Cup team. I have appropriated it. Regarding the number of tickets: 22 starters on offense and defense + 2 kickers + nickelback + FLEX TE + fullback.
THIS IS THE POST-SPRING UPDATE: Spring has sprung.
PACK YOUR BAGS
1. HSP Jabrill Peppers, Fr.* [Last time: 2]
Peppers snatches the top spot as Michigan builds their freakin' defense around him. Also he gets the Hybrid Space Player positional designation as a man who is nickel and so much more than nickel. Peppers swiftly took command of the entire damn defense this spring and is ready to be the triple threat we have been waiting for since the dawn of the spread.
Lewis gave no indication he was giving up the #1 CB job this spring, blanketing players in the spring game and leading a secondary that looked far too good for Michigan's wideouts to cope with, especially with Darboh drawing Dennis Norfleet. All Big Ten type season beckons.
3. LT Mason Cole, So. [Last time: 5]
Cole saw a little time at center during Michigan's post-Miller, pre-Glasgow period, then returned to left tackle. With Magnuson auditioning on the right, Braden playing guard, and LTT struggling immensely in the spring game, all challengers are otherwise occupied or defeated.
All hail the boring safety who will play boringly behind the exciting Jabrill Peppers and be wholly unappreciated even though he's preventing long touchdowns very well. Hopefully this coaching staff won't jerk him around like jerks. Hail the providers of first and ten instead of extra points. Hail.
5. MLB Desmond Morgan, Sr.* [Last time: 4]
Auditioned for WR corps with spring game interception; still more likely to spearhead the linebackers as a thumper who specializes on third and one and still gets good depth on his pass drops. Some threat from Gedeon but seems likely that this will be a platoon experience rather than anyone truly supplanting another. No lemon bets this year though.
6. FLEX Jake Butt, Jr. [Last time: 6]
Spring game gave every indication that Butt is going to be one of the top receivers on the roster, especially if the tight end-mad Rudock does ascend to the top job. Someone's got to catch some things, you know? Blocking remains a question mark—from what I saw he remains middling in that department.
7. G Kyle Kalis, Jr* [Last time: 18]
Miller departure and David Dawson getting thumped by Mo Hurst clears up most of the uncertainty on the line. Would take a massive upset for two interior players to pass a healthy Kalis, who should be coming into his own as a road grader under the tutelage of proven steamroller architecht Tim Drevno. All aboard for high school photo reprise.
UNLESS SOMETHING STRANGE HAPPENS
8. C Graham Glasgow, Sr* [Last time: 10]
Moves up even after probation violation because of Miller's departure. Returned to operational status with team by the end of spring and near-certainty to be your starting center as long as he passes the hundred-plus breathalyzer tests that wait between him and opening day.
9. WLB Joe Bolden, Sr. [Last time: 12]
Lights-out spring performance encouraging but comes on heels of last year's lights-out spring performance. Can he be as instinctive against offenses he doesn't go up against daily? Can he hit instead of be hit? Initial returns pretty good. It's time for the light to go on. Gedeon and maybe Ross will platoon, especially if Michigan is as nickel-heavy as it seems.
10. WR Amara Darboh, Jr* [Last time: 17]
Clear top option at WR in spring even if he was being checked by Norfleet; also Michigan's top returning receiver. Good combination of ranginess, speed, and hands could be reminiscent of Junior Hemingway. Michigan is going to need him to be a deep threat with the "speed is overrated" WR mantra coming home to roost this year. /shakes fist at Hoke staff
Drops a bit only because it's unclear how much of a role a third LB will have in this defense. Well-regarded by DJ Durkin and seriously experienced, Ross will play somewhere. How much will be at SAM will depend on how many eight man fronts M wants to run and how many two-WR formations they face.
Sometimes there's a man… I won't say a hero, 'cause what's a hero… but sometimes there's a man, and I'm talking about Joe Kerridge here… well, he's the man for his time and place. He fits right in there. And that's Kerridge. In Harbaugh's offense. And even if he's a fullback, sometimes there's a man…
13. NT Ryan Glasgow, Jr.* [Last time: 9]
This is actually a good thing, having Glasgow this low. Michigan has excellent depth with Bryan Mone and even Ondre Pipkins. Glasgow is still likely to get most of the at-bats, but your second NT is almost a starter anyway. Glasgow spearheaded a top-ten rush defense a year ago and should improve incrementally as a junior.
FAIRLY SAFE BET
14. 3TECH Willie Henry, Jr.* [Last time: 16]
Another situation where this is good uncertainty. Mo Hurst had a monster spring game at the same time Henry was ragdolling Mason Cole. One will be very good, and the other will still see a lot of playing time. Personally expecting that both will be on the field for passing downs. If Henry can just put it together he will be a flat-out monster.
15. K Andrew David, Fr. [Last time: 21]
Is the only scholarship kicker on the roster, so that's a nice head start. Big leg should slot in on kickoffs easily. Field goals? I dunno man, kickers are weird. Would like to have kept JJ McGrath around for competition. Options past David are… uh… Bueller?
16. QB Jake Rudock, Sr. [Last time: NR]
Two-year Iowa starter announced transfer on twitter; 61%, 7.6 YPA, 16-5 TD:INT last year as he was Big Ten's third-most efficient passer; conservative game manager type who fits in with Michigan's projected run-and defense configuration better than the thus-far turnover-prone Shane Morris. Morris biggest threat after spring.
17. WR Jehu Chesson, Jr.* [Last time: 23]
Nobody else impressed much and with slot receiver up in the air Chesson figures to maintain his position on the depth chart, which is currently #2. Thunderous blocking will catch Harbaugh's eye. Now, can he get deep? Supposedly faster than Peppers. For real.
18. T Erik Magnuson, Jr*. [Last time: NR]
Unusual to put the guy who ended last year at TE ahead of returning OL starter, but with Miller's exit seems likely Magnuson is playing either G or T, as he has seen time both places. Got tackle nod in spring, presumably as Michigan looks for Braden alternatives.
19. CB Blake Countess, Sr* [Last time: 11]
Looked good in spring but takes a hit as Peppers reconfig puts Countess in direct conflict with Wayne Lyons and other competitors. Lyons a more natural fit at boundary and may be better in man; Countess looks revitalized by the new secondary coaches.
20. DE Chris Wormley, Jr* [Last time: NR]
Escapes the defensive tackle logjam and gives Michigan needed depth at DE. Should be quality run defender… can he provide a semblance of a pass rush? Physical marvel, so it's possible. Need a leap from him if he's going to be an impact player. That hair tho.
IN A BATTLE
21. Delano Hill, SS [Last time: NR]
Tentative leader over Jeremy Clark and Dymonte Thomas for safety spot opposite Wilson. Has looked 38 for ten years and will look 38 for the next 40. Excellent athlete supposed to have a good feel for the safety spot, but did not push through even after reaching full health a year ago.
22. SLOT Freddy Canteen, So. [Last time: NR]
Pouring one out for Dennis Norfleet, but the writing is on the wall there. Canteen made a couple of sweet catches in the spring game and looks to fulfill the promise he started demonstrating in practice last year. Not too concerned about lack of production as a freshman, as WRs have an adjustment period.
23. DE Taco Charlton, Jr. [Last time: 19]
Keeping him in the 27 since he is the best combination of size and experience opposite Wormley. After spring injuries will have to fend off Ojemudia and a surging Lawrence Marshall to maintain spot. Should do so. Major X factor in season, as could be anything from backup to star. Guys don't come in his size with his athleticism often.
24. P Blake O'Neill, Sr.* [Last time: NR]
Aussie punter (and apparently model) visited and is planning a fifth-year transfer to M, whereupon he will win ladies' hearts by mooning on a beach and mine by rugby punting 45 yards without suffering a single return yard all season. Or he could lose the job to Kenny Allen.
25. RB De'Veon Smith, Jr.* [Last time: NR]
Best hair and best ability to not get injured amongst backs; also best spring game. Has reportedly impressed with his decisiveness a year after hesitation city. Excellent fit for Harball, very reminiscent of Stanford backs that weren't fast but also didn't get tackled ever.
26. T Ben Braden, Jr.* [Last time: 22]
Never good when you're being tried out at G after 1) starting at tackle the year before and 2) standing easily 6'7". Braden was shaky a year ago and Michigan is looking for options there. With Glasgow/Mags flexibility that could mean Kugler or Dawson pushes through to start.
27. TE AJ Williams, Sr. [Last time: 25]
Michigan spent spring moving any likely-looking body to tight end, so that bodes unwell for Williams. But no one supplanted him and by the end of the session all save Chase Winovich seemed to have resumed their duties as defensive linemen. It's clear there's going to be a massive playing time shakeout down the road; for now the default assumption is Williams.
DENNIS NORFLEET MEMORIAL DENNIS NORFLEET SECTION FOR FUN PLAYERS WHO NEVER GET USED AND HAVE GIFS
I think he was doomed either way. Tommy Tuberville entered at Cincinnati, and if there's a more dour, less tiny-person-friendly head coach I can't think of him. Probably should have gone to West Virginia, where wide receivers shorter than most girls in heels are an art form.
PUSHING FROM BEHIND
QB Shane Morris—leader coming out of spring
QB Alex Malzone—looked too raw to contribute this year
QB Wilton Speight—can he overcome the Borges curse?
QB Zach Gentry—probably needs some seasoning but upside in spades
RB Derrick Green—maybe the vision issues were Fred Jackson caused?
RB Ty Isaac—huge; limited in spring.
RB Drake Johnson—ACLs are not his friends
C Patrick Kugler—sure thing (for OL, anyway) entering third year
G David Dawson—added significant weight and should push
T Logan Tuley-Tillman—chatter from inside program is that light has come on, poor spring game though
WR DaMario Jones—slot playing time available
WR Moe Ways—Hemingway 2.0?
WR Brian Cole—much talk about his after the catch ability
NT Ondre Pipkins—concussions knocked him out in spring, time running out
NT Bryan Mone—I've been waiting for a large Tongan DL my whole life.
3T Maurice Hurst—dominated spring game
3T Matt Godin—could be drafted at SDE
WDE Lawrence Marshall—pushing hard
WDE Mario Ojemudia—bit of a forgotten man
SDE Shelton Johnson—freshman probably needs a year
SDE Henry Poggi—SDE now, still needs some time. Maybe trying out at TE, which…
SAM/WDE Royce Jenkins-Stone—Ross rebuffed challenge last year
WLB Mike McCray—should be the year he threatens for real.
MLB Ben Gedeon—will usurp some PT in prep for next year
CB Channing Stribling—will be good if he just stops phasing out.
CB Terry Richardson—maybe the coaching change will be good for him
CB Keith Washington—Harbaugh favorite probably needs seasoning
S Jeremy Clark—lots of PT, meh production
S Dymonte Thomas—insane burned redshirt makes it late early for him